Continuing in our series of Migrant Tales – first hand accounts of the migrant experience of New Zealand taken from places around the net.
Today’s tale was published recently on an immigration forum and speaks of the racism often directed towards British people in New Zealand
“I wont say where i work, but in central govt, but on a few occasions recently where i have dealt with Maori on the phone i have been told
“You Poms know nothing, get lost you dont belong here”
& “I want a Maori and not some Pom to speak to, not some foreigner”
NZ is the only place where reverse racism is allowed it seems.
My boss just said “Pass them onto the Maori team”
I’m not a super lefty like most Welly folk, but the number of people who earn $80k plus a year for being Maori is an utter disgrace. No one should be paid that much for leading a waiata, blowing a shell once in a while and having lots of meetings with other Maori friends. Its a waste of money. As bad as the whole quota system in South Africa.
Probably the thing that annoys me most about NZ is all the guilt about the Treaty and forced use of Maori culture. Reparations are fine, but the token jobs and different (lower) standards for Maori staff is just wrong. Maybe its just where i work. ”
If i walked into a bank and asked for a staff member of a certain race/colour i’d be escorted out by security in no time!
EDIT – I forgot to add that in my line of work i deal with Kiwi’s of a range of backgrounds, Samoans, Aussies and Americans, often in person – but i have only ever had abuse from Maori. Regardless of what race/nationality someone is, that behaviour is unacceptable, yet NZ seems to condone it from Maori, or brush it under the carpet. I treat people with respect and expect the same in return. I was very annoyed with my boss for brushng these incidents under the carpet as it’s plain wrong.
I know more than most about NZ history…i work as an historian. That clause about principles of the treaty in most job descriptions is meaningless, other than giving the govt the opportunity to make jobs especially for Maori. Its effectively a quota system. The Treaty didnt say give Maori jobs for the sake of being Maori and allow them to abuse others who arent Maori. I am not saying all Maori interactions are like this. Most i have met are fine, but some have a serious problem that no amount of reparations can fix. Some people must live a very sheltered life to claim they only want to interact with Maori. A document from 174 years ago has hardly any relevance today, apart from the forced efforts of the NZ Govt. Waitangi Day is a disgrace. The way the PM gets treated, he should just not bother turning up. Its not a day of celebration, just a day of guilt. Sooner the Waitangi Tribunal is wrapped up the better.
It is important for prospective migrants to know that the international image of NZ having a great relationship with Maori is totally warped. It’s no marriage made in heaven. More like a broken marriage with both parties having seperated.
Oh and with the complaint to my manager, after i kicked up a fuss he responded to the Maori complainant to say their behaviour was not on and if they have a ‘real’ issue take it up with the minister (like he/she would care). I was just annoyed that i had to force him to make that decision.
The Treaty isnt a piece of legislation, thank goodness for that. Its the liberal folk in NZ that created the “principles of the treaty” rubbish we have to suffer with now. The Waitangi Tribunal is more than enough of a concession to Maori, which is fair enough. Land was taken and should be given back with a limited amount of money if a serious greivance can be proved.They need to set a cut off point and get the claims out the way as soon as possible. Some Maori have been clever with the use of their reparations, such as devloping land in the Waikato (Te Rapa), good luck to them. Investing in the Warriors Rugby team wasnt so good for whichever tribe that was.
It’s the attitude problem, jobs for Maori and token gestures i cant stand. Maori with no knowledge of their job getting promoted over more qualified people is what will lead to a real brain drain in NZ. Hard to feel sorry for Maori if they are as prejudiced as the people who colonised them in 1840. They should be subject to the same expectations and laws as any other person in NZ. Their culture being treated the same as anyone elses. Chinese and Indian culture is equally as important to NZ as Maori culture. They will out number Maori one day.
I feel like supporting Winston Peters more and more each day! And i’m not even 65!
I live and work in NZ so am entitled to my opinion on matters as much as any Kiwi. If a Kiwi lives in the UK they can say what they want about the UK or wherever they live. Over a million people in NZ are born overseas. Are they not allowed to critique how things are run in NZ once in a while? I’ve been here 4 years, thats long enough to see how things work (or dont work)
I do find it funny how working in the ‘public service’ is regarded as some selfless service where you’re meant to take crap from the public. That is definitely not the case for me. If anyone is rude to me, regardless of their race, nationality or gender, I have no interest in helping them and would purposely not help them if they are a dick to me. I wouldnt accept rudeness from the public in the UK so i dont see why i should here. I dont get paid to be a punchbag. I dont think anyone i work with sees a public service job as the peoples work. Its a job, that is all it is. I enjoy my work for the most part and i enjoy working with all people as long as they are polite. As soon as they cross the line then my willingness to help or listen is extinguished. I’ve had some White Kiwi folks be rude and i put them straight (easier face to face). I have had white Kiwi colleagues abused by Maori and they didnt stand for it, they confronted them on the issue. Why should they be exempt from being courteous and having manners?
Going back to both original incidents, i told the Maori callers to send an email if they didnt want to speak to a non-newzealander or to get someone else to their work for them if they had such an attitude problem. All of my colleagues thought the behavior of the Maori caller was unacceptable and there are quite a few off the scale lefties in my team.
In relation to the sweeping generalisation that i want NZ to be a little Britain, That is definitely not the case. I like NZ and i do like on the most part that it is a liberal country. The libs have done a lot of good, but in managing the relationship with Maori they have gone too far in the public sector. That is my main gripe. Welly is a very liberal place. I like how no one bats an eyelid at each other here in Welly. People can be free to express themselves and most people are extremely friendly. I know Maori have it rough. They are the bottom of society. Some affirmative action is needed, but done in the right way. For some Maori that will never be enough until they have a Gaza Strip like settlement in the Ureweras. That would not be an ideal solution. Reparations wont fix things. They’ll be wasted (in some cases) on buying the Warriors Rugby team.
The NZ Govt could look the UK to manage things better in the public sector. Whenever a Black Minority Ethnic (BME) job is created in the UK, the job requirements are the same as any white applicant (except their colour) For example a BME History teacher would need a postgraduate qualification which is the standard industry expectation. So the person applying is more than capable of doing the job and its great that qualified BME applicants are given chances. Here in NZ, the bar is lowered. There are Maori staff in my workplace who are in Senior positions without having been to university. In one case a Maori staff member had work pay for their postgraduate course for which they were allowed to enter without having any undergraduate qualifications. These double standards breed resentment. If Maori staff are qualified enough then fair enough. But these examples from my workplace would be common across the public sector and i know many of my Kiwi colleagues share the same resentment as i do.
I came on here to see if other people have had the same experience. But also to highlight to newcomers to NZ or people thinking of moving to NZ that they will face reverse racism at somepoint whilst living in NZ. Its up to people how they deal with it. I have my ways which i wont be changing.
For the accusation i want NZ to be the last white haven and a throwback the good old days, well, that definitely is not the case as i am not white myself. I have no white heritage whatsoever.
E2NZ.org 
Thanks for the following, Cracker…
“where you from Bro?.
“I’ve just moved here from the UK” I say.
“Nother F*** Pakia come to steal more of our country” he says.
“What?” I say to this compete stranger.
“Your ancestors stole our country from us and now you’ve come back to finish the job” he says.
Well I should have just finished my drink and walk away but I though right lets test his argument.
“which ones?” I say.
“hu…what you mean?” he says
“Which ancestors, the Russians or the Italians?” I ask (I’m of Russian/Italian stock).
At his bemused look at the turn of the conversation I expanded my argument.
“your talking about the Treaty of Waitangi right?”
““Yeh?” he said questioningly
“well that was signed in 1860….back then one side of my family lived in Russia and the other in Italy, so which side of my ancestors stole your country?” I asked.
“Well you a Pom like aren’t you?” he scrambled for a counter argument.
“Only since the 1900s” I say, “a century after the Treaty was signed”.
This seemed to stump him for all of five seconds and then it just came out “Yeh but your white like!”.
REAL CRACKER… A googly and a bouncer… in one delivery.
Cheers…
Thank you Vince for the following…
The Maori REALLY don’t like to admit this one: The New Zealand of today was built almost entirely by European technology and advancement. Before the arrival of the Europeans the Maori were a stone age people. They may have been deceived by the treaty of Waitangi, but they gained a MASSIVE amount from all the technologies that the Europeans brought to New Zealand. They seem to forget this when they start making treaty claims to get back ‘traditional’ fishing grounds (which they then fish using European technologies).
Perhaps instead of complaining constantly, using the treaty as a way of inciting guilt and shame, and ramming a culture that is far younger than most of its residents down the throats of New Zealand citizens the Maori could have some gratitude for what they gained and start to admit that New Zealand does NOT revolve around them.
Thank you Vigilante for the following…
Let me tell you ‘sham’ Maori fellas, the world doesn’t owes anything to you, so go to college, get and education, instead of playing pokies with your mates. Because when the second generation of ‘Asians’ start to dominate, you will be locked up of your privileges that the treaty has bestowed upon you and the treaty itself will be flushed down the sinkhole, because you aren’t Maori anyway. Since the original Maori passed long ago, the treaty no longer holds relevant.
Can’t live with the Treaty, can’t live without it.
TRUE THAT…
http://sarah-stewart.blogspot.com/2007/12/emigrating-to-new-zealand.html “Poms not actually well liked”. Another slightly more realistic page.
I remember when I first applied from the UK to come work in NZ up in Northland and the public service job stated “must have an understanding of the principals of the Treaty of Waitangi”…I thought “The what?”. Since this was back in the early 2000’s Wikipedia wasn’t what it is now and I had to struggle to find anything about this. Which just goes to show how little a footnoe in history it is back in the birth place of the old ‘British Empire’.
Anyway I learned enough about the whole Treaty history to pass the questions and got the job. Then I moved to Whangarei. I didn’t realise what a industry there is behind this old perceived injustice and just as ‘Vince’ (in previous posts) say there is a total absence of recognition that the Maori got anything positive out of the European colonisation. All problems of anyone who considers themselves Maori is laid as the feet of anyone who is a ‘pakia’ (a term I find racist and reject from anyone using it to me).
I can remember when this conversation happened (some time in my first months up in Northland).
I went into the wrong bar (there are plenty of wrong bars there I discovered where your not welcome if your no a Moari) and was drinking at the bar when the guy further down the bar turns to me an says ..
“where you from Bro?.
“I’ve just moved here from the UK” I say.
“Nother F*** Pakia come to steal more of our country” he says.
“What?” I say to this compete stranger.
“Your ancestors stole our country from us and now you’ve come back to finish the job” he says.
Well I should have just finished my drink and walk away but I though right lets test his argument.
“which ones?” I say.
“hu…what you mean?” he says
“Which ancestors, the Russians or the Italians?” I ask (I’m of Russian/Italian stock).
At his bemused look at the turn of the conversation I expanded my argument.
“your talking about the Treaty of Waitangi right?”
““Yeh?” he said questioningly
“well that was signed in 1860….back then one side of my family lived in Russia and the other in Italy, so which side of my ancestors stole your country?” I asked.
“Well you a Pom like aren’t you?” he scrambled for a counter argument.
“Only since the 1900s” I say, “a century after the Treaty was signed”.
This seemed to stump him for all of five seconds and then it just came out “Yeh but your white like!”.
That’s when I got up and walked out.
Trouble is this seems to be the basic philosophy of some many of the people who go out of their way to protest their Moari roots when it serves them.
Its all a pakia conspiracy dont you know?
Good story. Did you find that Whangerei is a major center for gangs and drugs, especially marijuana?
Admin,
I’ve only recently discovered that NZ doesn’t doesn’t have a written constitution like Australia or America, that might be the explanation for the dominance of the Treaty of Waitangi since there’s no all-encompassing foundation document that determines the nation’s system of government for all New Zealanders.
The New Zealand legal/Constitutional system is another example of the country’s backwardness and absence of legal standards. For example, a legal principle exists in the United States and other common law countries called equitable estoppel. This means that a party cannot simultaneously claim benefits under a contract whilst disavowing some provisions.
The Treaty of Waitangi is such an example. The British used a very questionable process whereby they found a handful of Maori chieftains willing to sign a contract whose terms they probably did not understand and bound all Maoris to the treaty. The English and Maori version of the treaty vary substantially, which means that there is no meeting of the minds and therefore no contract. The Maori lobby claims countless benefits under the Maori and English version of the treaty, yet it disavows other provisions. This is a perfect illustration of the absence of guiding legal principles. I suppose the New Zealand (in)justice system that routinely rewards the criminal at the expense of the victim is simply another continuation of this.
Interesting, what an exquisite dilemma for 21st century New Zealanders–can’t live with the Treaty, can’t live without it.
Maoris are one ‘deplorable’ bunch of people. First of all, lets see who is a Maori? I mean, Maori in true sense?? ‘Nobody’ is the answer. Most of them are half-casts at their best with severe ‘Identity Crisis Syndrome’.
In my personal experience, as an Indian in NZ, i would say i have had the worse kind of experience with them, so much so some have shouted racist slogans such as ‘dairy owners’, ‘f*****g Indians, go back home’. I have had a such a ‘white skinned but claiming himself to be Maori’, ‘imposter’ manager at work, who have openly called me a terrorist, and then giggled over it with other of his mates. I have had one Maori neighbor who stabbed and nearly killed his other Maori friend. I was the only one who saw it, so gave my statement to police. Owing to this, and the guy was charged and in jail. His ‘whanau’ came to spook me, to unduly influence me to change my statements, i had to change my city, cause i got no police protection as somebody who reported a crime (Police is a joke here!).The other thing noticeable was that, i was talking to the policeman in the station, he had a very casual attitude towards it, and he went on to say that 99% of the crime is committed by Maoris. Which is reflective of the huge population of so called ‘maori imposters’ in NZ jail. Anyways, there are numerous other tales, of these confused imposters.
So let me tell you, when these so called half bred ‘maori’ leader talk about priority interest for them, because of their ‘some borrowed’ DNA, then it makes them look like a laughing stock. Why don’t they talk about their ‘European’ side, or pledge their allegiance to their Irish, dutch or whatever mixed bag of genes they also carry with their so called ‘Maori gene codes’, At the end of the day, such folks are just trying to get shelter and take advantage of treaty of ‘whatever land’. Who gives a damn about your treaty?, We migrants didn’t signed it, neither our ancestors came here with bullets and barrels, we came here, put our money here, toiled hard, got the best education and payed taxes to you loathsome lazy people, and then you say, ah! we don’t want Asians and Indians here. How sweet your life is now, and how diabolic it is set out to be.
Such ‘sham’ Maori leaders are just doing their petty politics, in an already rotten system, their biracial preferentially doesn’t seem to have done much too good to them either. Such leaders only know how to talk illogical rhetoric of ‘Asian invasion’ and seem to be clueless or far too conditioned about the prevailing problems with their half cast brethren, the issue is surmounting them, and soon they would be seem galloping on the streets when the table turns, and educated Asian diaspora gain political influence.
Let me tell you ‘sham’ Maori fellas, the world doesn’t owes anything to you, so go to college, get and education, instead of playing pokies with your mates. Because when the second generation of ‘Asians’ start to dominate, you will be locked up of your privileges that the treaty has bestowed upon you and the treaty itself will be flushed down the sinkhole, because you aren’t Maori anyway. Since the original Maori passed long ago, the treaty no longer holds relevant.
By the way…to all those cramming the ‘dairy owner rhetoric’, the lesson you ought to have learnt, (but you obviously didn’t!) is that Indians actually own something in supposedly ‘your country’, they don’t go out to ask for DPB. And they put so much value in education and family virtues, so suck it up. Go compete, or the world will remember you as lazy morons, with no civility.
In today’s world your skin color or ancestry doesn’t matter!,its high time your realize this. Get over your ‘ICS’.
We had pretty much of a mixture of experiences with the Maori vs white Kiwis. One sort was not so much better than the other. We met a small number of people of both races who treated us kindly. The overall total percentage of unpleasant people of both sorts who didn’t actually want us there except to give them money was too high in New Zealand. One was as bad as the other. I did find the Maori warmer in general, emotionally, though I don’t think I ever met a Maori who enjoyed reading books.
Hi Tallyfell, I have lived in New Zealand for four years & I agree that I have also met both friendly Maori people & friendly white New Zealanders. However, the Maori are generally friendlier & warmer than white New Zealanders. My experience has also been that the overall total number of rude, arrogant & xenophobic New Zealanders far outweighs the friendly ones I have met in NZ.
My experience in New Zealand continues to be that most New Zealanders will be friendly to new immigrants especially if they can sell you something or get something out of you for free. Especially your money!! New Zealanders are expert con artists!
so I met a Maori online. she has 4 kids and no longer with her man. She has removed her uterus for future sex without birth. She seem to lust over East Asian man but had some hate for India.
I love studying culture and listened to her ramble on about her tradition and how cool it was. I told her about my culture as well. She didn’t seem too interested lol. She asked if India or Pakistan is Asia. I told her and explained to her India’s strong influence on Asia and how Asia is a geographic term to describe a group of decent from a geographical land and not a racial term.
I went on to explain to her how south Asians have some Australoid gene due to Melenesians(a branch of Australoid) possibly entering south Asians with similar look as those people in Cambodia, Borne, Indonesia and New Guinea. She refuse to believe that and kept talking about how they look like whites and the reason why is because I told her the majority of India has DNA closely related to descendants of Middle eastern dating back to the Parsi and Persians.
She then said she doesn’t care about other people’s history and story and only worries about hers. She said she was entitle to her belief and don’t care about analyzing anything. Lol That’s when I realized how close minded she was. Even when other people are willing to learn about you and respect you, you have no interest. No wonder the world today is filled with violent and misunderstanding. People call eachother slurs without even knowing about other peoples’ origin or stories.
The sad part was she left a bad impression on me for New Zealanders, Maori, and Indigineous of the land. No humor or consideration at all what so ever.. I guess pride and ego gets in the way!
Interestingly, my experience over the 7 years I have been in New Zealand has actually been quite different, so I think I must have been lucky in some respects regarding my experiences with Maori. I was recruited overseas to come and work for a central government organisation. To get me to come, they sold NZ as a friendly place where I could build a life and enjoy a great lifestyle. When I arrived, there was a new manager who I reported to. The first time I met with him, he told me that people where I am from (UK) are not ‘self starters’ and that Kiwis are much better people to employ. He told me that he had been in the process of withdrawing the job offer to me when I turned up in New Zealand. Because of this, he held a grudge against me as he didn’t want me working there. Over the 7 years it took me to obtain residency (due to many restructurings) I was repeatedly bullied and publicly belittled by other managers working below this manager, as well as denied training and development opportunities that were then given to less senior NZ staff. When other staff saw the way I was treated by managers, they started treating me with disrespect as well. With one exception (a Chinese origin Kiwi) all these people were white Kiwis. In all the time I have been here the only people who have treated me with any courtesy or kindness (even just saying ‘good morning’ on the street) were Maori people. The white Kiwis have been disinterested at best, outright bullies at worst. When I had to stay in NZ this Christmas, as I couldn’t afford the air fares to visit family overseas, the only person who invited me to have a drink with them on Christmas day was a Maori woman. Although I am friendly and outgoing and have made friends in all the different countries where I have lived before (Canada, France, Belgium, India) I don’t have any white Kiwi friends. They just don’t want to know. The only people I have had any friendly exchanges with are the Maori. If it hadn’t been for them, my experience in NZ would have been a bitterly lonely experience, as I am single and didn’t know anyone when I came to work here. So not all white people’s experiences of Maori and Maori culture are negative.
Try taking a walk in South Auckland after 6 PM with an Iphone and a loaf of bread. I dare you, and that should change your opinion.
[troll]
The common factor in the Kiwi workforce seems to be that any one [migrant] can replace two Kiwis. Both me and my wife have found this to be true in the workplace.
As far as safety, our house has been [attempted] broken into twice, and an ipad was stolen, in broad daylight, by a couple of useless teens. All three incidents of attempted and actual theft were by Maori.
This says it succintly:
Maori more important?
SIMON DAY
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/10081307/Maori-more-important
Maori dislike Asian immigrants more than any other group of New Zealanders, a new poll shows.
The money paragraphs:
Maori have a unique position in New Zealand and advancing their cultural and social needs must be put ahead of the needs of immigrants, said Maori Party leader, Te Ururoa Flavell.
“[Are Maori] more important than anyone else? Possibly. I think that the most important thing is that the people of the country recognise our unique part in the fabric of this nation,” said Flavell.
He is concerned immigrants are taking much needed jobs from Maori, contributing to disproportionate emigration to Australia. As the indigenous people of New Zealand, the government should put the needs of Maori ahead of new migrants he said.
Draw your own conclusions, when it’s the “Maori Party leader” saying those things.
Immigrants, beware.
xth-gen immigrants, have no illusions.
The first time you see a tough looking Maori wearing a “Mean Maori Mean” tshirt is a bit of an eye opener. There are Maori out there who pride themselves on intimidating whites. Maori spitting on the street as a white person walks past is fairly standard in parts of the North Island.
First rule for whites in NZ – don’t discuss the “Maori issue”. It’s like a taboo subject even in the face of statistics showing the disproportionate number of Maori in jail, teen mothers, child abusers etc.
It’s like non Maori NZers have to just tolerate whatever treatment by Maori “because of the Treaty”, like we can’t possibly hold them to normal standards of behaviour.
Obviously there are some nice Maori out there(in the lower South Island mainly) but overall the attitude of entitlement and aggression is fairly strong.
I remember the Kiwis calling the British “pommiebastards” (all one word) when they weren’t in the room. I was left with the impression that they thought the British snobs who wanted to change things that were working well or wanted things to be like they were back home. They don’t consider that change is ever a good thing in New Zealand. They thought too many British were moving there (and Asians). From what I overheard and what other Kiwis told me. I am sure they talked about Americans when I wasn’t in the room. They said enough to my face, but doubtless worse when I wasn’t there. Happily we have since left that country and moved elsewhere.
I don’t agree with the term ‘reverse racism’, it’s just racism, whether it’s Caucasians, Asians or Maoris who are expressing their bigotry against other ethnic groups.
Agreed, it’s just racism. It’s concerning that it’s not challenged, one would expect a government dept. to be at the vanguard of multiculturalism and not reinforcing racism. New Zealand obviously still has a long way to go.
Yes, I wonder whether NZ’s institutionalised bi-culturalism might become a social and political problem in an increasingly multicultural society, in other words it’s past it’s ‘use by date’. Kiwis rarely miss an opportunity to remind Australians of NZ’s more enlightened relations with their country’s indigenous people, apparently there’s a downside that they fail to mention.
Yep, funny thing is that New Zealand proudly displays it’s racism to the world. What other country would have a rugby team which is predominately of Polynesian descent and call them the All BLACKS, and have a soccer team of predominantly Caucasian descent and call them the All WHITES?
One of the biggest problems in New Zealand is the fraudulent nature of the country. The Maoris WERE ripped off by the treaty and they have legitimate cause of complaint, but they also misrepresent the situation themselves.
Firstly the Maori like to pretend that they have a long history in New Zealand before the Europeans arrived. They don’t. The Maori reached New Zealand somewhere between 1200 and 1350. By contrast Able Tasman reached New Zealand in 1642. This means that the Maori ‘culture’ lasted a grand total of 442 years before it started to become influenced by the Europeans. Now granted colonisation did not take place until the late 1700s, but even taking this extra time into account makes little difference when things are put in perspective.
Well established cultures like China, India, Britain (and the other European nations), Greece, and the Aborigines of Australia have history measured in the THOUSANDS of years. Aboriginal culture goes between 10,000 and 40,000 years. Maori culture pales in comparison.
Secondly, and the Maori REALLY don’t like to admit this one: The New Zealand of today was built almost entirely by European technology and advancement. Before the arrival of the Europeans the Maori were a stone age people. They may have been deceived by the treaty of Waitangi, but they gained a MASSIVE amount from all the technologies that the Europeans brought to New Zealand. They seem to forget this when they start making treaty claims to get back ‘traditional’ fishing grounds (which they then fish using European technologies).
Perhaps instead of complaining constantly, using the treaty as a way of inciting guilt and shame, and ramming a culture that is far younger than most of its residents down the throats of New Zealand citizens the Maori could have some gratitude for what they gained and start to admit that New Zealand does NOT revolve around them.
The obsession and exultation of the Maori culture was one of the things that annoyed me about New Zealand. Obviously, the poorly educated Kiwis have never heard of Greece or Rome and the advancements made by those people. Instead, the haka is on par with the forebears of Western civilisation.