Why Are People Leaving NZ?

February 2010: ‘People Leaving NZ. What’s The Deal?’ That was the the question that was asked on the emigration forum Expatarrivals.com

These are some of the answers that were given:

  • I”t’s very hard to be a returning kiwi especially with experience and qualifications. It’s difficult to get ‘a job’ let alone something in your field…even harder if you’re over 30. The average wage is low (especially if you’re female), cost of living high and kiwis are over taxed. The country has been mis-managed for some years (over spending, poor immigration, fraud) with very little to show for it. It’s also become increasingly more violent (murder, rape, child abuse, domestic violence). I would advise anyone thinking about returning to do their homework seriously! There are not many opportunities and it can be very closed shop, insular and nepotistic so if you’ve been away for a while it’s tough. The safe thing to do would be line up a job (if you can) before making any move.”
  • “You may not want to hear this as an potential emigrating expat but many leave New Zealand because there are better job opportunities outside of the country. Higher Salaries and faster career prospects entice people off the island.”
  • “I’ve heard that kiwis keep leaving new zealand because it is the most boring place on earth. there is nothing to do but go walking, or listen to crowded house records. there is no culture, jobs, excitement.”
  • “I have heard that New Zealand companies are now working very hard to recruit expats in an effort to replace the amount of young people leaving the country – this is surely a positive spin for prospective immigrants, giving them a bit of leverage to negotiate offers?”
  • Good jobs scarce. Low-wage economy. Sky-high housing. Gang problem. Insular people. Schools not good compared to UK. Housing poor quality. There isn’t much to emigrate “to” unless you enjoy scenery to the exclusion of all else. It is beautiful but there just is not much there. I know people who have regressed in their careers while in NZ because they were overqualified for everything, so you do find IT professionals with Masters in CompSci working help desks with some frequency. Their free health care is not actually free, and is staffed mainly by temporary foreign locum sawbones. If it is an injury you are covered, but not something like cancer or kidney stones, for which it is more efficient to go private before you croak on a queue. Many Kiwis leave for better wages in Oz, and some expats move on to Oz or elsewhere, or back home, after a few years. You don\’t hear from these leavers at all. You only hear all the constant public relations hype about how great it is. If you google around you will find forums discussing the downside. If you are an independently wealthy boastman or a nature freak who does not mind living in the manner of a backpacker on ramen and tiny rented spaces, you will love it. Seppos: No totalisation agreement with social security so check out tax ramifications.I knew a few Yanks who became stuck. Poms, if you love Tescos and Waitrose and M&S, don\’t move to NZ. Goods are either inexpensive and shoddy or they are the expected Blighty medium-quality but way beyond your budget in NZ. NZ winter weather is like March, cold, wet and windy, but your hearth will not be a refuge from this. The homes are draughty with no insulation and built with poor joinery and no central heating. In March temperatures this may be difficult. Nonexistent pub culture. Nonexistent culture in general.
  • Came, saw, stuck it out for a few years and will soon leave screaming.”
  • Their free health care is not actually free, and is staffed mainly by temporary foreign locum sawbones. If it is an injury you are covered, but not something like cancer or kidney stones, for which it is more efficient to go private before you croak on a queue. Many Kiwis leave for better wages in Oz, and some expats move on to Oz or elsewhere, or back home, after a few years. You don’t hear from these leavers at all. You only hear all the constant public relations hype about how great it is. If you google around you will find forums discussing the downside. If you are an independently wealthy boastman or a nature freak who does not mind living in the manner of a backpacker on ramen and tiny rented spaces, you will love it. Seppos: No totalisation agreement with social security so check out tax ramifications.I knew a few Yanks who became stuck. Poms, if you love Tescos and Waitrose and M&S, don’t move to NZ. Goods are either inexpensive and shoddy or they are the expected Blighty medium-quality but way beyond your budget in NZ. NZ winter weather is like March, cold, wet and windy, but your hearth will not be a refuge from this. The homes are draughty with no insulation and built with poor joinery and no central heating. In March temperatures this may be difficult. Nonexistent pub culture. Nonexistent culture in general.And before anyone thinks or posts that its the same everywhere and medical doctors drive taxis in NYC, USA or London UK. The difference is that those countries do not have the feel about them of being cut off from the rest of the world as NZ DEFINITELY does and despite it all those countries do offer more opportunity and better wages, even if you have to do a menial job to survive at first. I’d also like to think that those countries have long ago adapted to multiculturalism and even if its only on the face of it, at least make people feel equal to a larger degree. Unless of course you visit the small towns of West Virginia or Utah, USA but let’s face it, not many immigrants would rush there to begin with. And A LOT of NZ feels like small town, hillbilly, one-horse-towns. It’s very rural … so one becomes a bit depressed leaving the “cities” (100 000 pax = city here) to go and see the scenery as you drive through those small towns and look at the derelict housing etc.”
  • The thing about NZ IMO is that the country is so, so small that the social problems, economic problems, development problems, health problems, political insufficiency, youth problems (graffiti, teen pregnancies, truancy, gangs, drugs, poor literacy etc), living-below-the-breadline families, and terrible pollution – yes the clean green image was just a marketing ploy and e.g. recycling is faaar behind here – are in your face on a daily basis. You may live in a good area but the next rough area is often a few street blocks away. Walking distance. The only place where you may isolate yourself from not seeing the very real problems of this country is maybe Auckland, NZ’s only city (1.2 mil pax). So indeed, everywhere in the world has these problems but in NZ they are very much in your face. Now maybe this is a good thing to keep people humble and make them aware and not to isolate the down trodden yadda yadda, but if you’re going to blow your life savings to immigrate and leave friends, family and familiarity behind, I think its rather disappointing when you arrive here in reliance on the marketing campaigns by NZ Immigration and find that the countrys problems are rather close to you on a daily basis, the wages do not live up to the cost of living here, and the job opportunities (not to mention lack of promotional opportunities) may very well be the first very real problem you face … and add to that the xenophobia mentioned above when you go for interviews … Good luck to you if you are highly skilled (highly qualified) too because many a migrant can attest to the fact that New Zealanders do not generally appreciate foreign expertise. It all comes down to their inferiority crisis about being so small and isolated and indeed, the worst developed Western country in the world. Resources are and will always be lacking here. If you like living rural and in make-do way, you may just love it here.
  • It saddens me to hear some of the negative words that are being said about my beautiful country. Altough I have to admit some are true, I myself have left New Zealand for a better lifestyle, earning potential, and career that I didnt have when I was back home. Apart from this, New Zealand DOES have an AWESOME CULTURE, it is there you just need to find it. I love and miss home and would love to return to live one day, hopefull after I win the Lotto!”

250 thoughts on “Why Are People Leaving NZ?

  1. Its quite brutal, but I cannot disagree.

    I have made myself feel a bit better about NZ (which I mostly love!) by thinking that it really is NOT a first world nation.

    NZ has a great summer, but once winter arrives, we all sit around with our gloves and jumpers on in cold, leaky, expensive, damp homes… this is not a 1st world nation.

    Yes, Kiwis drink Flat Whites and bask in the glory of trendy bars and restaurants but when it comes to the basics? Roads, infrastructure, public transport, shelter? NZ is very much behind, UK, Ireland, Canada, USA, Norway, Australia, the list goes on and on…

    I do want to say however that I DO love it here, but I am sad that NZ simply does not live up to its amazing potential. Canada here I come…

    http://www.muzzerino.com/2010/03/breaking-news-new-zealand-indoor-winter.html

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    • The problem is the NZ summer isn’t long enough and a winter spent in a damp, cold house can be miserable. Other countries also do flat whites and trendy bars, scenery, roads and all the associated infrastructure and advances of a progressive 21st Century. Living on a film set’s back lot has its drawbacks.

      Good luck with Canada, the weather may be colder but at least the homes are built for it 🙂

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  2. I’m leaving for Oz when my wife graduates.

    Just by moving to Oz, my salary jumps from 90k to 120-130k.

    Tax is lower. More opportunities for my wife.

    And Jesus Christ, the housing here is crap.

    I’m originally from South Africa, and goddamn, NZ builders aren’t even up to SA standards. I’m glad I didn’t put any money down to buy a leaky, ugly piece of shit house for $600,000+!

    Sure, it may be as expensive or more in Oz, but from what I’ve seen the quality is way way better.

    Thanks for the developed-country passport tho! Makes it easier to move on up to the next rung 🙂

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    • 90k is a pretty good salary! Think you’ll have found that tax in Australia is not lower – NZ’s top tax rate is 39c I think, Aust. is 50c in the dollar. Cost of living is definitely lower.

      Not sure if SA’s fit into NZ very well, you’re probably better off in Australia.

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      • Sure they do- they have similar lifestyles and behaviour… fake and mannerly, highly promiscuous, self-driven, image-driven, materialistic, non empathetic, extremely dysfunctional and sexists – could not be a better match to be frank. Most S Africans work side-by-side with Kiwis and even one S African lady promoted pimping here at University of Otago and now is senior lecturer they… they love S Africans in NZ esp, S Island Wellington and Auckland! S Africans are the only ones I know besides English who get the high salary jobs next to Kiwis.

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    • you are so spot on mate. I left the shitty life in NZ in 1995 and it is the best thing I ever did. I can not believe the stupidity of those left behind who, after 20 years of dismal lives, and paying rent to greedy landlords, still think they are living in a developed country, when all the statistics clearly show that they are not. It is their no longer something they should be scratching their heads over. Kiwis have allowed themselves to be ripped off by minority interests for 25 years and have mostly not so much as made a peep about because they have no moral compass and therefore no idea what is important beyond superficial selfish material concerns. NZ has always been an oppressive place and the ignorance that pervades at the highest levels is surpassed only by the nastiness. Leaving really is the only option and that was clear to me 20 years ago.
      By the way this, is the longest comment I have made on the internet in more than 2 years. Normally I am way to busy and sober for such trivia.

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    • I’ve seen the building standards in ZA and while they may once have been good they are now most assuredly inferior to even NZ standards. The almost complete lack of competent oversight and inspection is reflected in how shoddy things are there in South Africa.

      NZ builds in timber because of the seismic nature of the country and Christchurch proves masonry is not a good idea in an earthquake zone. Also see Anchorage, Alaska – there’s a reason for timber.
      I spent 35 years in carpentry, design and build and will say the new chums coming through are formulaic and know nothing of proper jointing, weathering and flashing methods because the industry has been dumbed-down to over-compensate for poor training .
      Judging NZ standards by anything built post 1980’s by speculator/builders is going to skew the results. Anyone who owned a hammer was in on the new gold rush and companies like James Hardie promoted products which were totally unsuitable for the NZ climate.
      An Arts & Crafts house in Remuera is likely to be entirely better than a group house on the North Shore anywhere and my impression of South African tradespeople is less than favourable too.
      They leave everything to their untrained underlings and disappear.

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      • G Blackburn, Yes he must be a “hypcrite”.
        BTW, did you ever see red underline in your browser when you make spelling mistakes?? James seems to have paid for the “service” to get “done” in nz and probably more happy in the Oz.

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    • we have been thinking of moving to NZ for years, and each time the housing and the shit holes I see on the internet is what puts me off. I think it is cheaper and better to live in NZ if you are prepared to slum it or camp for the rest of your life ….

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    • I have to differ with you there. The South African buildings I observed were ,with a few notable exceptions, of very poor quality and had things like stairwells with guaranteed head-knocks and woefully bad plumbing. Mostly caused by a fat builder dropping off his coloureds and leaving them to it and going home to eat yet more braii.
      The lack of proper supervision and the generally low level of training did not help.
      There were also very fine houses there but generally these were products of an earlier time.
      But yes, building standards in NZ dropped when every developer and wannabe that owned a hammer in the 1980’s got in to make a quick killing. The standard prior to this was equal to anything anywhere else with good trade practices.
      Also, a point many immigrants don’t get is why NZ houses are built in timber. NZ is a seismically active country and masonry is extremely hazardous in such an environment.

      A well-constructed house in NZ would allow for extreme winds, seismic activity and four seasons in one day , not unlike the Pacific North-West of the US and the houses are entirely similar. Timber-frame houses survived the Anchorage force-9 quake intact when all other systems failed catastrophically.

      But the dumbing-down of the construction industry in NZ has led to the proliferation of instant tech-school experts and educated idiots promulgating very poor but expensive trade practices which are now mandatory in order to redeem the ‘leaky building ‘ legacy.
      Craftsmanship is neither lucrative or allowed in NZ now. Witness the ridiculous wages and hostility to tradespeople from anywhere but locally, offered in the wake of the Christchurch earthquake. Finally they had to resort to importing low-wage labour , subsidised in a way that no one from NZ could compete with.
      One of the main reasons I left!

      I do not miss anything in NZ except maybe the hunting.

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  3. The reason I left NZ was because I found it too smaller country in my 20s. Not boring – but just too small for someone with big city dreams! A lot of NZders choose to travel at this age and therefore it may appear everyone is leaving! You will notice many of them return and choose to live here because of the good lifestyle and a great place to have a family. A similar scenario applies in Australia.

    After reading the comments this thread I can only assume the people are expecting to find a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow… funny because I don’t think NZ has ever claimed to be an economic power house!

    However, having lived in both the UK and NZ, I can say that tax is LESS in NZ (income tax AND goods/VAT). Since the recession, wages for a mid range job are no different in either country, but high paying jobs like IT and engineering are better in the UK. The best part for me is that house prices and rent are about half… this means I have more money after paying for my basic living costs. Food & entertainment costs me no more or no less in either country. Although it is easier to find a fresh Japanese/Thai restaurant in NZ!

    One of the worst things in NZ in my opinion is the public transport. They are working to improve it, but its hard to compare it with a fantastic rail service in a big city like Sydney or London. For this reason, many people choose to drive, which doesn’t help the issue. In saying this – commuting to work is still faster.

    The best thing in NZ is the easy access to beaches and outdoor living. I think this helps to entice a more relaxed pace of life with a focus on life outside of work.

    Moving to NZ is a lifestyle change. Not a career move… unfortunately these things don’t often go hand in hand.

    Economists ‘liveability rankings’ list puts Auckland at no. 10 and heavily features Australia and Canada.
    http://www.economist.com/blogs/gulliver/2010/02/liveability_rankings

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    • Sarah do you have any figures for the number of New Zealanders who do return home to live? A great many of them seem to settle permanently in Australia.

      Interestingly many Kiwis find it hard to settle back in to New Zealand life after spending time away and have difficulties being accepted as a local, they also find resettlement hard because New Zealand isn’t as it was when they left it. Read some of our what Kiwis say about NZ pages. One of them is called Returning Kiwis views about New Zealand.

      Here are some comments from it:

      kk (Canada)
      Wednesday September 23, 2009 “We are currently living in Canada and have also lived in the US. Coming back to NZ is a bittersweet decision for us, the main drawcard is family, the beautiful countryside, and our children growing up literate.
      But for a small country, NZ has developed a shocking culture of violence, I have felt safer in these countries at night than in NZ, granted we have lived in great towns but there wouldn’t be many places in NZ I would walk at night.
      We’ve been reading the news regularly to ease back being home and Im ashamed to read headlines like the ‘h’ in Wanganui rubbish next to one about yet another abused/killed child.
      When people ask me about the utopia they believe is NZ , I say sure its a stunningly beautiful country with clean air, but never hitchhike, be careful where you camp for the night, walk down to the dairy at night, stare at anybody, walk home from the pub, sleep on a beach or leave anything not bolted down outside and you’ll be fine.”

      Andrew kiwi in the (United States of America)
      Wednesday September 23, 2009 “There are a few things that make me worry about coming back, one is the actions of the dictatorial enviromentalist movements. Another is the government seeming desire to control people. Banning certain styles of parenting? That is concerning. What else will you be unable to do because some bleeding heart socialist do-gooder decides it is in your best interests to deny you the right to decide that? There are schools of thought that population control is required to save the planet. Will we have to apply to have children at all? These new enviro-nazis seem determined to destroy the economy to solve a problem that hasn’t even been proven to exist!”

      YouKNOWItsTheTruth (Mairangi Bay)
      Wednesday September 23, 2009 “I keep reading about this mythical NZ lifestyle. A few people here have listed mountains as a reason to come back. A big hill is a reason to live in a country?
      Seriously, how many people in NZ actually go mountain climbing? Just as only 134,000 watched the Boks beat the All Blacks in SA last month, there seems to be this fantasy that all Kiwis love rugby, ski, surg, mountainbike, fish, have a bach and watch rugby.
      If you do, good on you, you’ll love NZ. Most of us don’t though. And the weather is rubbish. Makes me laugh when Kiwis slag the UK weather. AKL has more annual rainfall and worse air quality than London. And although the UK can be colder (than AKL, not necessarily the South Island) houses are built to cope with it, unlike here, hence all the asthma. And don’t get me started on leaky homes.”

      Good luck for when, and if, you ever decide to return. The chances are that you won’t do it until you retire.

      The family unit is disappearing in New Zealand. Statistics NZ’s latest family and household projections show that couples without children at home overtook couples with children at home in 2008 for the first time since at least World War II. Which rather belies the myth that Kiwis return home to have kids.

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  4. People are leaving NZ because is an isolated little nation in the bottom of the world, full of racism and close-mindedness, with no economic perspectives or career prospects. It’s for similar reasons people are leaving Bangladesh, Zimbabwe, Guatemala, Samoa, and other 3rd world countries, a no brainer, really…
    Lifestyle??? LOOOOOL what a sick joke!

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  5. If you want to know isolation, come to NZ, get even moderately sick and be turned away from hospitals………. even when you are eligible for their so-called healthcare services.
    And when even a doctor tells you that if the hospitals refuse to see you, it’s a case that you have to “go away and die”. That IS isolation!!!!

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    • John/Simon (Battleneter) you have been banned for trolling on this and multiple other posts.

      Your latest comments now put you firmly in Australia, guess that living wasn’t so comfortable after all?

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  6. John we note that you have a Christchurch IP address. You are fortunate to have a well built fairly modern and warm home, we hope you are sharing it with those who don’t have one at the moment.

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  7. “John” sounds like he has adopted the classic Kiwi attitude, or in all probability brought it over on his fur. No wonder he fits in so well. The migrants who settle in well all have that attractive “harden up and fit in or f*** off” outlook.

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  8. There is a lot of truth in what you say, there’s every possibility that “John” is a Pom himself.

    He should do well in NZ.

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  9. NZ is a real shithole, and is becoming worse by the week with this pathetic national govt who overtaxes the poor to give to the rich!!!

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  10. Lifestyle is what YOU make of it. You can have a rubbish life style anywhere on the planet, it’s up to the individual to seek adventure of the place and make the best of it. There’s always somewhere better and always somewhere worse, it’s just a matter of perspective.

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    • Ania..seriously I have lived in NZ fare too long to know the living standards, to me, are not acceptable. Many towns and cities in ‘Wonderful NZ’ are terribly quiet, insanely isolating, lonely, and closed by 8.00!!! Many times I walked around screaming quietly to myself. If you are single, creative and have opions FORGET IT!!! However take a hint from NZ’s recent history – do farmers, fisherman, miners and forestry communities have open opinions, debate, political aware, dance and passionate about the arts… OK this is a little obvious to say…fare from it. But this is most of the country. Apart from repetitive poor imitation Reggie music, there is little or no music and arts culture here and forget great food. There is the Kiwi culture… one of wearing over bearing male muscle heads, wearing black to show no expression. Apart from Wellington, Kiwi’s having no opinion about just anything but the weather, sport and a V8 cruisers. They simply do not debate, I think this is considered rude to openly express your opinions…many many Kiwis simply have no opinion on politics let alone world politics, world affairs and human rights or global conflicts and little opinion about the environment even though their farmers are literally killing their own country. Socialites call NZ a ‘Passionless Society’ for many reasons. OK what next….Kiwis simply drive too much (and very aggressively too) and do not commute! Some ride their fancy carbon bikes in races and drive home fast to the barbi. Apart from Tasmania, I have never met so many over weight people, due to high drinking rates and very poor eating standards, over driving or sitting on their fat behinds watching the next episode of brain-washing American dramas. Almost everywhere outside Auckland, NZ is like small town Canada and Australia (maybe with a hint more ignorance, violence and some times open aggression). The best place was Wellington but the weather is simply terrible. I found Auckland lacking any real spark and the worst is Christchurch (OKI should of taken a hint in the name). Old monied ultra conservative or simple minded, uneducated working class communities. After 8 years of trying this creative, fun, energetic, environmentally passionate, well traveled guy has had enough. I am lucky that I don’t have a family so I can up and leave. But its damn hard to come to a country from the other side of the world and told lies about jobs a plenty and clean green brain NZ…it does not exist. I am not going to Australia as I can’t stomach the racism, I am trying my hand back in Europe, where people dance, kiss passionately, hold hands and laugh openly, and express their opinions with full vigor. I love mountains and rivers, seas and surf (which I came here for in the first place)…but the world has these a plenty…so I am off to find my shangrila….along way from NZ…I am very sad to say. To note: i have taken an effort to write this – so people out there don not make the same stupid and expensive mistake as I did and sadly waste almost a decade of their life. Try Canada..at least its closer to Europe and South America is only a day’s flight away!!! PS: If your are a KIWI or an over zealous POM I apologize. I have tried to be honest of my own experience the best I can. I will tell you my truth, NZ immigration will do the opposite!

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  11. This person clearly does not have children. Only the unencumbered, uncaring or the very stupid would deliberately and knowingly move to places where their children have a much higher probability of faring poorly.

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  12. Mum” quite right! NZ is a very bad place to bring up children, the level of child poverty rates as one of the top four in the world, education standards have dropped dramatically since the 1980`s, the teachers are always on strike as they are paid peanuts, not only that most teenage kids in NZ are recruited in criminal gangs and are hooked on drugs and alcohol….ALL AND ALL A VERY VIOLENT COUNTRY!.

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  13. http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/local/8976100/p-lab-next-door-to-care-centre/

    It is not that other countries don’t have problems. It is that you are moving to an expensive, remote, tiny-minded place that has all the same problems your own country does, plus its very own special ones that result from its own circumstances. Migrants are jumping from frying pans into fires, thinking they can get away from the ills of the weary industrial first world by moving to the “youngest country in the world”. That’s like a 50-year-old having a midlife crisis, dumping his old wife and finding himself a 20-year-old. We all know how those end up!

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  14. NZ is awesome and a great place to live.

    These negative comments re:NZ were clearly written by immature teenagers and disenfranchised short, fat men from middle management.

    I love this country, and if you think so little of NZ then I support your decision to live in all the other problem-free countries of the world.

    PS. Kia Kaha Christchurch.

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    • Anon…yes you are from Christchurch. Mmm problem free…. like insane level of car violence, white collar corruption, poor low paid communities (one family was found living on the Brighton Beach in the Winter!), a McDonalds on every corner, shopping malls a plenty, over conservatism, poor bus service, no decent cafes, closed by 8.00 (OK sorry new law is closed by 11.00 and they call this a city?!)…enough said…I am an educated, very fit, well traveled man…just not your average KIWI…glad to say.

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    • NZ is awesome and can be a great place to live. So long as you enjoy no real arts or culture. Happy to eat a diet of bread and something and enjoy poor quality beer.

      Sadly to lift about just merely average you have to have an income that’s simply not achievable for the majority. Its a low wage economy, with limited chance to be truly engaged in a productive workplace.
      Middle and upper managers who achieve their role by virtue of the old boy network and no real skills.

      I am a local, raised in Foxton and attended secondary school on the Kapiti coast and uni in Wellington. I hope a degree and professional trade qualifications, and spent over a decade working in europe to senior levels, but in the 17 years I’ve been back in NZ I’ve not been able to pierce middle strata management due mainly to the closed shop mentality of kiwi business.

      Im now simply biding my time until my mid 50’s when I get make my escape back to Europe and get my Kiwi pensions transferred – which is another whole bun fight that we have to deal with in this country!

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      • Wow didn’t realise until I came across this old post how shit NZ is? After living in The U.K., the US and Aus, I like this shitty cold, boring messed up place! Lots of room for improvement sure! But I’m having the time of my life – life’s what’s you make it – regardless of where you live! People’s comments say more about themselves rather than where they live?

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        • Hello Kaikoura Dave :). Having the time of your life, is that why you’re using the name Vanessa? Things must be very quiet at the moment, maybe you should go back to the pub, drink beer, contemplate your life and wait for it to improve. Your ban still stands. Have a great day.

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  15. Well it is sad to hear so many negative comments, because they reflect lives…yes there are cold and grotty homes here like anywhere else in the world from my experience. You can always find a bad job anywhere. I suspect you need to look for the options as they do exist and I know people living their dream here. For example schooling…some unique opportunities for children.

    Yes there are negatives here like anywhere however i’m sure you found them all where you came from as well. As someone with average abilities I came here and made it work on a level which would have been harder overseas to achieve…makes me wonder why so many can’t.

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  16. What unique opportunities exist for children in New Zealand outside of a) studying some creature or plant that exists here and nowhere else? b) special genetic work on sheep farms? c) work in composite materials for yachts and surfboards? Those are the only “unique” opportunities I have heard people speak of. Sex work is legal and meth labs seem to be all over the place, but I would not want my children becoming involved in those activities. The attitude towards these is one big shrug, which in my opinion does not scare enough people out of trying them. I do not consider myself rigidly moralistic, but in truth, a certain percentage of people in society will stay straight because the risk is not worth it. The moral attitudes here have created a particular climate wherein a higher than customary percentage of people try to get away with things, and they do. It’s the anti-Singapore.

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  17. All in all NZ has great potential!

    ‘F*ck off!’

    New Zealands it’s erm promising?

    ‘F*cken Dreamer!’

    We f*cked it right up?

    ‘Thats more like it’

    What we have done since the 80’s has enabled a number of rich New Zealanders to expand their wealth and diminish others. Furthermore, New Zealanders are (and I hate to say it) pretty right wing and conservative in thought. Even Labour never had the balls last time around to really address the pressing issues we face.

    Simply because they were totally poll obsessed and of course the really started this madness in the first place. The influence of Australian PR companies and the dodgey influence of groups like the Business Roundtable and the Exclusive Brethrens makes for an awful lot of hidden and often foreign influence. Our media is by and large pretty right wing and our major radio stations are by far the worst. Our Television stations are utter shite. I remember the quality of programming when I was a kid compared to the trash TV1 (our supposed ‘flag bearing’ station) dishes up.

    State Owned Enterprises have encouraged a by the numbers ‘ratings’ driven madness that thrives right across the state sector. This means that returning and skilled workers in particularly in social services are considered over qualified for what amounts to pay demands.

    The result is that we are sadly a country with a lot of ‘flash’ but no real substance. We have high costs and little social innovation. Our river’s and countryside are being raped and our clean green image is a total and utter joke. Its all very, very, very sad. People leave for farther shores because basically they are treated better. People who like NZ and return tend to be people who have made a hell of a lot of dosh with foreign currency. Or have family or a good job to return back too.

    The latter seem somewhat in the minority.

    What I have mentioned is the utter reversal of what New Zealand could be. But New Zealanders are either to scared too acknowledge what we have become and or actually believe banal ‘we are the greatest country in the world sentiment’ the people who tend to say that are generally living rather high on the hog as I have said.

    Such a shame. Theres so much we could do!

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  18. Interesting discussion on this forum. Kiwis are overpopulating the Gold Coast, and being insulted by their relatives back home for having abandoned ship – and there is an invitation in the works, for Mexicans to come to New Zealand? Like any American, I’d sure welcome some Mexican cuisine down here, but I hate that they would not know what they are in for until it was too late. Gang, you ought to put a Google translate button on your site!
    http://www.realwomen.co.nz/component/option,com_fireboard/Itemid,60/func,view/id,19039/catid,2/limit,8/limitstart,0/

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  19. Thanks for the link.

    We used to have a button on our original site, thanks for reminding us how useful it was. We’re on it…

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  20. I read somewhere that drug problems were rife in NZ and that about 25% of Aucklanders smoke weed on a regular basis.
    I took a look at emigrating to NZ a few years back (an acquaintance had moved out there) but it seemed very much a case of being shuttled into “new development” (ie characterless) housing and very much the “hard sell”…hmmm. Also I felt it would be an awful long way to be from anyone who knew me if anything went wrong…the acquaintance I spoke of has had to travel (even sometimes to the UK) for work, is a habitual weed-smoker, and has few friends (to be honest parts of the UK can be conducive to this as well…which is why I prefer to live in London…more choice).

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  21. CAN SOMEONE PLS TELL THE TRUTH ABOUT NZ IS IT A PARADISE OR IS IT A SLUM WHATS THE TRUE STORY WHY THE MIXED IMPRESSIONS?

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    • It is a paradise like in a picture post card. Beautiful, well managed and corruption, pollution free. Good quality of life, good foods in their malls, great out door lifestyle etc. Gr8 country.
      The only problems are high cost of living, bus and rail tickets are expensive, shopping is expensive, I guess it is but natural as this country is in a far corner of the world and bringing goods in shipping containers are quite expensive.
      AND the lack of jobs and a weak business environment.
      And yes , take professional consultation of lawyers, electricians, plumbers etc, only by asking friends for good references.

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      • Lack of jobs, a weak business environment and expensive, yet it looks great. There’s an old saying in NZ – “you can’t eat the scenery.” You’ve only been in NZ for 2 months so are still in the honeymoon period, you’ve yet to go through a NZ winter for instance. Read our Migrant Tales for other people’s experiences, you may find it a comfort to know you’re not alone in the coming months.

        Some of the recurrent themes we’re seeing are

        Low salaries
        Problems finding work, overseas qualifications not recognised by Kiwi employers
        Xenophobia, racism, bigotry and discrimination
        Expensive, poor quality accommodation
        Problems with the education standards
        A lackadaisical attitude towards safety and security
        Feeling that NZ is actively mis-sold to outsiders
        Isolation, missing family, friends, old lifestyles etc.
        Crime and a frustration with the way its dealt with
        High cost of living -especially food, “Rip off NZ” etc.
        Lack of culture
        Dangerous roads and drivers, drinking and driving, hoons
        No future for kids, older kids feel isolated and cut-off from friends and family, no support networks.
        Bullying problems in schools and workplaces, harden-up attitude, not knowing where to turn for effective counselling services
        The ‘Kiwi way’, ‘WWINZ’ (won’t work in NZ) small mindedness, #8 wire mentality, etc.

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    • New Zealand would be a great country if you had a few million dollars in the bank. Iconic scenery and genuinely friendly people. I originally came here from the UK 5 years ago and have been back and forward since. I will be going home shortly for the last time and the main reason is housing. It is so overpriced it’s not funny. Why would anyone want to put down $600,000+ for a antique wooden shack with an ugly corrugated tin roof , in winter it is FREEZING (no such thing as central heating or double glazing)….cold, damp and noisy…..really depressing going to a cold bed every night to the smell of damp. Another thing are the driving “standards”…appalling number of drink drivers and badly maintained vehicles…walk up any street and be amazed at how many cars have bald tyres or other obvious defects. Planning permission has been granted to build a 15 STORY brothel right outside Sky City…..horrid. Wages are pitifully low for most jobs and there is no tax threshold, you are taxed on EVERY dollar you earn. Internet is the worst, horrid lag spikes, always dropping connections, often runs at dialup speeds in auckland. Food in general is very expensive.

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    • Read my comments Kerry..you will get my truth. Of course its mixed opinion and ideas…we are all different. On the whole, if you are intelligent, like to dance, love good food, hate muscle sports, hunting and social ignorance….DO NOT MOVE TO NZ…please have the patients to look some where else. This may not be possible as the world is slowly going down the toilet…NZ may go down a little slower..but its heading that way.

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  22. ok, here’s the best impression i can offer. i am a new zealander, with a kiwi mother and an english father. i was raised in west auckland and moved around in the areas known as oratia, karekare, piha, glen eden and eventually moved to ponSNOBBY in my early teens. i left the country at age 15, i’m 19 now, living in australia.

    new zealand is or isn’t a shithole depending on where you live inside it, who you are, where you’re from and what you do for a living. growing up was quite tough – being in a country now where people are generally happier is an amazing change. there are some insights a 19 year old cannot account for, so i leave those to what i have learned from my friends and family. but here goes.

    new zealand is a country where you WILL be picked on for standing up, where you WILL be assaulted, bullied or otherwise harrased by the police, gangs, various social structures (the insane lesbian/femmie) and even the school children for standing out or being different.
    for those with average incomes (food service, cleaning, labour, administrative services, ect.) life is actually rather tough. don’t expect to be buying that twenty grand car you always wanted anytime soon. auckland and indeed most of new zealand has crime and poverty statistics that, while considerably higher per capita than australia or canada, are not the whole picture. the new zealand police force is plagued by rampant unprofessionalism, corruption, “cronyism”, and a disregard for their own behavior. as such, more crime goes unnoticed and unresponded to than in Australia or canada. people in the upper/middle class are so separated from the rest of society that they lack any sense of their poorer peers suffering, and so the systems and processes upheld by these people responds to such in an out of touch and unrealistic manner. like prosecuting a known serial pedophile with just 5 years jail time, and giving a man who killed somebody trying to defend his son something akin to 10-15 years. the child abuse is EXTREMELY widespread and again, i myself was aware of countless cases, usually perpetrated by our resident islander population, that went unpunished and completely forgotten. the social structures in place are often at total (and violent) odds with one another. while the fishing company sealord mass trawls the ocean bed just a few miles off the coast, and independant Maori settlement is forbidden from starting a fucking clam farm. cases of such stupidity and mismanagement persist no matter where one chooses to live within the country. the government seems a totalitarian oligarchy with no realistic sense of cause and effect and as such often pursue pointless, money wasting legal projects that only magnify the crime and corruption slowly seeping throughout the country. an immigration policy of blatant ignorance has allowed masses of violent, uneducated pacific islanders to take root in new zealand, (while european, asian and middle eastern immigrants with degrees and money are often refused entry). Auckland now has the largest population of pacific islanders anywhere in the world. they are themselves a major problem – even being at 5 different schools in new zealand, of varying levels of wealth and education, i often witnesses students who were not islanders, pakeha, maori, korean, indian, even somalian, being harrassed, attacked, and racially slanted. this also occurs in the adult world – you don’t need to spend a lifetime in NZ to hear about how ms. talofa put her baby in the dryer and killed it or how an elderly indian man was bashed to death in the middle of west coast road for refusing a drunken samoan entry to his taxi. this has created a racist culture, where indian/asian populations are highly suspicious of said folk, where pakeha regard anybody with coloured skin as a nazi socialite would a jew in 40’s germany, and where maori communities feel outright hostility towards everyone for such stupidity.

    if you have hopes, dreams, ambitions, a high standard of living, you are not racist, dislike violence, dislike goverment corruption, surveillance and cronyism, if you want to raise children safely and have disposable income, be VERY careful about your choice to move to new zealand. while a backpacker on a working holiday can certainly enjoy 6 months free of trouble while skiing in otago, or a lifestyle liver with a weighty bank account can enjoy walking the misty mountains from his bach without threat, a family looking for a safe and profitable place to start buisness or raise children will want to choose somewhere better
    (like australia?). basically, if you want to involve yourself in it’s structures, prepare to be dissapointed. if you want to gaze down your navel at a fucking mountain all day, i’m sure you’ll be fine, but for the sake of your life and how you live it, heed my fucking words.

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  23. I’ll put my opinions of New Zealand up, my personal opinion.

    I met a girl in 2011 we both lived in the UK, her British family moved to NZ in 03/04, I paid for us both to go over and visit her family as she had not seen them for a long time, nice holiday, she saw her family I met them, everyone’s a winner

    Right….. Wrong

    It was meant to be a holiday and a chance to meet her family, what it actually turned out to be was a 6 week long sales pitch to get me to move there.

    I am pretty well travelled and because I didn’t drop to my knees with admiration as soon as I stepped off the plane her family didn’t like it, it was hell.

    The expats/kiwi wanna-bees – there are some nice people, out there but I found that all I got told was how nice NZ was and how bad the UK is, it was like constant self justification to why they had moved. Very clicky and you either love it or they don’t accept you.

    The cost of living – I took £4000 with us to use as spending money and we RAN OUT of money with a few days left to spare, the cost of a beer, cigarettes, chocolate, food, we stayed with her relatives ( that’s another story )

    Criticism – now here in the UK, we generally talk about how shit the country is, but as I have read on here kiwis or kiwi wanna-bees cannot take any criticism for NZ.

    Housing – I work In The UK building trade, seriously I cannot justify the prices for property in NZ, they do seem very low quality

    Jobs – I did get offered 4/5 Jobs while I was there but the cost of living compared to the wages were poor I was offered around $25/35 per hour, my partner at the time was 25 no qualifications nothing, so I’m not sure how she would/will get on.

    Lifestyle – I enjoy fishing/golf/hunting/most sports but not to keen on rugby, I found myself sat watching the grass grow so I could cut it out there, things were very expensive in the activity lifestyle, the rugby obsession is strange, I actually went to the rugby with a family that were mad for the team but didn’t understand the rules????

    The women – I’m sorry, this might just be the type I was with at the time, most of the women I met were very dominating, whiny, big and not very good looking, I felt the men were expected to look after the women and do as they were told, under the thumb.

    It was all a little keeping up with the jones and very 2 faced, I saw a lot of back stabbing

    I found the whole experience a little too forced, a bit false, plastic if you like.

    I was a little unsure if it was ‘is it me syndrome’ but I think reading comments on here has helped a lot.

    Thanks,

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    • “The expats/kiwi wanna-bees – there are some nice people, out there but I found that all I got told was how nice NZ was and how bad the UK is” Same with Americans. The Kiwi wannabe Americans only want to hear how bad it is back in America to justify their own life choices. They won’t look at New Zealand with honest eyes. As for the battle of the sexes, as a woman, I found the men were really backward, as in, 20 years behind the times menacing farmer sorts with no social filters, and there was a great deal of “natural” cultural hostility between the sexes, for no good reason. They fulfilled their roles with little intimacy and a lot of power struggling. Had a Kiwi man for awhile – the experience with him and his family did not disabuse me of this observation but reinforced it. So – no thanks, no Kiwis for me.

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  24. we bought the bull and took london money, global credentials and kids to nz. lived on one of the best streets in the country. had access to the ‘best’ of everything. left 2 years ago after 6 greusome years that felt like a thousand+. was back last year for 3 weeks and the only thing i missed was my local cinema, a small luxurious foreign film hangout that i have failed to replicate elsewhere. are we in any way better off for our time? i made money in property (wasnt going to leave broke as most do) but small thrill as my former london home is now worth more than double what we sold it for. staying put in london and scratching my arse all day i’d have made a higher profit margin than i did living and working in the most stressful and ungratifying work environment imaginable.

    dont get me started on education or sports.

    the long term health consequence to our family has been huge – when we went as healthy people we did not anticipate being made into patients and that the medical care we has access to with our priavte insurance just wasnt going to do the job. as for the emo shite that spun around us, it was limitless, and while new zealanders seem to get some kind of gratification from it we couldnt understand or share their interest. we had some very, very sad times in nz, too many of them shared through teen community etc. highly disfunctional place and money cannot protect you or your children. we were friendly with a family of south africans who happily moved back to johannesburg, armpit of the universe, and are nothing but thrilled 2 years on!!! i feel for people who cannot afford to leave, or think they cannot. the whole nz thing comes with an overwhelming sense of failure on top of everything else.

    now that i have had space and time to calm down am putting pen to paper and with a little luck one day people will be able to buy the book. it will be an eye opener.

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    • Thank you so much for sharing that with us. Sounds like you had quite a time of it in New Zealand and are very relieved to have left.

      When you feel able to say more would you consider writing a migrant tale for us? there’s a lot that people could learn from you, and you could give support and encouragement to others going through the same problems. You may also find it therapeutic to unload your thoughts somewhere where you’re not going to be criticized or ridiculed for doing so, that can happen on some of the forums can’t it.

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    • Thank you Peachy for your honest review. We are New Zealanders and have been living in Aus for the past 10 years. Since the birth of our first child 2 years ago I have been feeling very homesick and a longing to move back. You have just reminded me of why we came here in the first place, I think a holiday back home will do instead! Thanks again! 🙂

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    • Completely agree, Peachy, and please write that book. I lost my health (permanently – and the doctors back home can’t believe what the Kiwi doctors didn’t have the funds or good sense to do, in NZ) and all my money and progress in life to date in that sh** country. I will never recover any of that. Money and health are just for starters. My kids were psychologically changed for the bad by living there. So was I. Hungry, pinheaded savages. That’s all I can say. I hope it sinks under the sea. Apologies to the nice ones. We did meet a small number of those.

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    • I must say that I am shocked that I haven’t found all those comments before we moved to NZ and I have to agree totally with all those experiences. I am German, but have lived for 13 years in South Africa and as we have moved there we have felt home from the first day. Here I wanted to get into the next plan after a few weeks. But I just heard that I have to give NZ time to adapt. Unfortunately I only could figure out, that I need to give up myself to get along with NZ and the people and have to live in depression. This I can’t accept. I also have to admit that there are a few really nice people in that country, but most NZers are just brain washed and can’t accept poeple who don’t agree with everything of the NZ-hymn. We are here now 18 months and have regret to move to this country. We rather move back to South Africa, where we have to deal with the nonsense of that coverment, but feel welcome and can talk to mindopen peoples. There we have been happy in our heart, here we are heartbroken.

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  25. thanks for your interest. the main reason for writing a book is to clearly develop the true line life in nz follows. we have lived in many countries, being a mig is a challenge everytime, but the life we led in nz was different. shite happens there that beggars belief, and its the lazy ‘she’ll be alright’ bit that keeps it going.

    people want nirvana, always will. nz provides an escapist possibility for most of the world and team nz is very good at nurturing that image, its hard to understand how the govt of nz hasnt been pulled up short for pumping out total crap. i accept for many, dipping in and leaving post holiday, most remains unknown. except for the occassional european backpacker who needs to understand that the glass is half full of shite and that is why they were assaulted/ killed/robbed etc, not that it was some karmic inevitability.

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  26. Yes jobs are less and business competition is more, but I disagree on the pollution or other bad points mentioned, as those problems are there in every country in this world but nz has it less and has a support system to correct that which most countries do not have. Drugs, alcohol, pregnancy, gangs are the present growing up peer pressure trends among teenagers worldwide. But nz has it far less.

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    • Everything you say there is simply your opinion. Please can you find some hard facts to back it up, we only deal in reality on this site.
      In the meantime perhaps you can try going without the Kool-Aid for a while and see if your perspective changes.

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  27. Hi,

    I settled in NZ from the US about 4 years ago. I lived in the US for 15 years but came here for family ties.

    My children loved the schools here, no stress like US. But I personally would have liked to have seen them challenged a bit. Not like US but a midway. Can’t have it all can we? The country is beautiful, scenic, I met decent kind people always.

    The downside I was unable to get a job despite good qualifications. 2010-11 when I moved a lot of people also moved from Christchurch due to earthquakes. Despite family I felt lost because I was not used to a quite life and everything was very silent here. Tried volunteering in schools etc but still could not overcome the feeling of being lost.

    There are pros and cons, but what did not work for me could work for you. I am planning to return, so putting my daughter to SAT exams. Do not want to pull her out in the last year. Another thing if you come from the US and have children with the intention of returning back, realised that the academic year ends different in both countries and also the education system is different, the student will while a little time till college begins or the younger ones will suffer to catch up in high school given only half a year.

    In short. If U are coming with children chalk out you plans before hand if returning back. Otherwise beautiful country if you like the countryside and afford the expenses without working. Thank fully my husband still works in technology on line with his US company.

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  28. NZ Or UK.
    first of all sorry if there some of my English is not that perfect.

    I’m from Asia living in NZ Auckland for a last 10 yrs.and be come a New Zealand Citizenship.

    Its was so hard to get a job., not enough education for an adult an all the kids. Too lay back, too easy rich people very snob and poor people just out of the mind especially from South Auckland. Too many murder.
    Too many Asians.

    people I know it s sound weird but yeah even my self think its \too many!!
    Kiwi gal not make up no classy only some one them are.

    Now I am in UK.. English people just different attitude . they nice and polite, classy, friendly gentlemen , good education. very good place to live. its not like perfect but its okay so far. Very good place to Educated the kids all my kids got more Manner compare to Kiwi school.

    I do love Nz still but just thinking that too many competition economic not so good nd everything is too dear.

    LOveee shopping in UK!!! its a bigger world here the way people dress and talk so nice and polite so far.

    All in my Asian opinion. I live in both country. There are no right and wrong here.

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  29. I returned to New Zealand after living in Australia for several years, just to see if the grass really was greener on the other side. Five months later, I was back in Oz.

    Main things I found to be sub-optimal about the land of the long white cloud?

    1) Weather – It’s a bit spurious to blame NZ for something it can’t help, but the weather can be really ordinary. I can only speak for Auckland and Hamilton but there are long bouts where it’s damn cold, and often in a “damp, miserable, psychologically-destroying” kind of way. It seems like the overcast weather can hang around for weeks at a time.

    2) Drivers – Shite drivers are almost as numerous as there are cars on the planet, but there is a particular type of aggressive, impatient and dangerous driver that frequently inhabits New Zealand’s ugly labyrinth of roads, motorways and highways. They slightly outdo Australia’s Queensland drivers… and that is really saying something.

    3) Cost of living – The food must contain platinum, the electricity must flow through gold wires, the houses must sit on little diamond mines, the fuel must come from a single deep-sea well in the middle of the pacific ocean and everything else must have been commissioned by royal artists and designers. How else can one explain the huge mark-up of commodities and consumables in New Zealand? Except secondhand cars – Not dirt cheap, just less expensive.

    4) I found a lot of rubbish lying along roadsides and in built-up areas, belying the image that New Zealand tries to export to the rest of the world as being “clean & green”. Maybe the outlying country and wilderness areas are truly worthy of that title. To be fair, there is a big lack of respect for keeping the environment tidy in Australia too.

    New Zealand is a nice country, but especially on points one and three above, Australia just edges it out enough to make it my long-term home.

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  30. the reason there is so much positive spin, i conclude after going the distance, is that there are a lot of miserable migs in denial – miseery loves company – and the govt is very very careful to balance the negatives with stuff that is purely made up!!! you will notice the number of negaive blogs that are shut down/ removed…?

    as for people being nice, well, as long as you dont need anything serious. as soon as you are in the shit you are in deep and very far away from help. there is nothing as predatory as a new zealander on the scent of your money/ life. going without the expectation of reciprocity/ community integration helps.

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  31. I will be moving out of NZ in two years, or earlier when my next healthcare appointment is going to as humiliating as the previous ones (second opinion by student, accompanied by even more student). Only one best thing happened to me in NZ: our lovely NZ cats, one from the SPCA (they have the most beautiful cats there) and one stray beaut that luckiliy came to our door as a kitten, skinny as it was (back then). The only thing i am worrying about (already) is how to get the cats with us to Europe. There is no option to keep them in NZ, I do already feel sorry for them, but they are very attached to us as well (we would be moving anyway, so I guess moving and stay with us is better for them). Where could I find information about people that left NZ with their pets? I only see bears on my path (is that a NZ expression as well?)

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  32. I am a fifth generation New Zealander who feels some sympathy for all people who have posted their disappointments on this site. It makes me feel better to know I am not alone. To be honest, the average population of NZ has little respect or knowledge of higher culture. Mediocrity is appraised and intelligence is mocked or downtrodden. Fineness is scorned and looked down on. I simply have never been able to get along with Kiwis since the day I was born in Blenheim. As luck or bad luck would have it, I came from a different family background where there was classical music, art, performing arts and culture. I was the only child who valued Russian music. Nobody else knew what it was. My father, also a born and bred NZ’r and I always went to NZ Opera, Royal NZ Ballet and NZSO concerts when we could. These organizations are recognized on the world scene. I recommend them although I have not scene a full theatre since the 1990’s. Most individuals who attend those performances are elderly people from the era of NZ when finer things were encouraged, including morality. That has changed.

    NZ’s culture has slumped to something too low and primitive for words in my opinion. The obsession with rugby, the sarcasm towards ballet and opera that I encounter amongst ordinary Kiwis, the xenophobia and the general cultural illiteracy I am met with in too many places of NZ, encourages tall poppy syndrome that NZ is so famous for. NZ people want the best but will crush it down the moment they can. As a result, I have found it very hard to make friends with my own fellow New Zealanders. I try but I have to contain myself often. I find myself in conversation more often with migrant Germans, English, Latins and people from the Middle East the most. Many of my friends are immigrant Muslims. I have been mocked at times by New Zealanders for forming friendships with these people. Another extraordinary thing is that Kiwi people cannot believe I am actually from NZ. They ask me if I am from England or South Africa, simply because I speak properly. They cannot tell me to go back to my own country when they find out my great grandparents emigrated here from Ireland!

    If you do not drink alcohol the whole of NZ assumes you are religious and think there is something wrong with you. Getting drunk and smoking weed is almost the norm these days. I have done neither and I have been mocked for this by New Zealanders who see me as weird. Of course I don’t care what they think but life has been a solitary one in this country. I cannot find any NZ friends who do not drink alcohol. I found some ‘groups’ on the internet such as the Baha’i community but I don’t want religion! If you write ‘social contact – Auckland or Christchurch’ into Google, you get alcohol counselling websites and self-esteem-building courses for women as a response. NZ is a nation of drunks in black trackpants and hoodies and it is a bolt hole for the worst perverts in the world too. Disgusting types come to NZ with the intention of getting their fill from the “most promiscuous women in the world”. I was told that by one Egyptian doctor who came here to do that while leaving his wife and kids back in Egypt. University educated NZ women give away their bodies like unpaid whores and this is how the rest of the world views all NZ women. I went into a cafe in Wellington on Cuba Street and the photography art plastering the walls of that cafe was of prostitutes in corsets in various shades of sepia. This was supposed to celebrate the liberal animal in the NZ woman I suppose. Women’s suffrage activist, Kate Sheppard who made it possible for NZ women to be the first in the world to have the right to vote, would have turned in her grave. In my experience, I have been howled down by other New Zealanders if I say I dislike the kind of low behaviour I see around me too often.I am told I am intolerant and that I need counselling.

    The obsession with rugby in NZ makes me sick. On one hand there are these sickly liberals in politics who ram through laws that ban parents from smacking their kids, while on the other, the whole country wastes money on promoting the violence of rugby to boys as normal and obligatory. I am a single woman – still because there are no decent men in NZ. I feel I have missed out on that side of life. Peter Jackson, director of Lord of the Rings, could have saved a lot of money on orc and troll make up by simply asking 90% of the New Zealand male population to act in his films as they normally do. NZ men are lower than dogs, which is why the non-promiscuous women of NZ have pet dogs in many cases instead of men in their lives. Some may ask why I did not leave NZ many years ago. The truth is,I did not know how to and I could not afford to for various reasons. My circumstances did not permit that. I hope to move to Australia as soon as I can. I do not know if I will want to return to NZ to live.

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    • @Farida: I am very sorry to hear about your predicament. You sound like an intelligent, wise, and sensible person. As a Kiwi, why do you suppose New Zealand has evolved the way it has? I am referring mostly to the alcoholism and promiscuity.

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      • Firstly, a large number of NZ girls have grown up in dysfunctional families where alcohol abuse or sexual abuse has forced parents apart. Crudity and drinking is the norm for them. They end up living without good male role models. Fathers are never there half the time or if they are, they are irresponsible. Secondly, parents don’t instil self respect into their daughters because they don’t know what that is themselves. They have got residual issues from their own dysfunctional upbringings and sexual abuse. Then there is the lack of education in health and humanities. People do not read. As a result, NZ girls have often grown up with unstable family relationships without love or knowledge of very basic things. This makes them seek love through sex. To add to that, a fashion has developed in the West that encourages women not to view sex as part of commitment. Sex is to be casual not committed or loyal. Casual sex is promoted as a way of showing “maturity”.The fashion seems to be that women must learn to detach their emotions from sexual experiences as a lot of men do. For a woman to be able to do that, she has to get herself drunk first or it would be too emotionally painful to go through. Women in NZ get drunk and have sex with complete strangers often because their peers do it, because they need somebody to meet their needs and cannot find a partner who is any good, because they are lonely, because it gives them short-term feelings of happiness, because they were not loved by their parents, because men have made them feel like whores so they behave like them, and because they are bored with not enough to do. All of the women who go off one-night-standing would probably like a committed relationship but they feel it is not possible because the men of NZ are emotionally incompetent and completely selfish in many cases. They will have drunk, mechanical sex with weird men, then do what the world expects them to do – move on – without tears. It is like a kind of modern stoicism that is very sick. NZ men are are large part of the problem too. They have not been brought up properly with a backbone. They are weak characters who exploit the women who make themselves available to them.

        Of course this kind of promiscuous activity amongst women happens all over the world but in NZ because the population is small, and there are no obvious alternative cultural pursuits around, it is more noticeable. NZ women seem to like copying female stereotypes that the American film industry presents. If something perverse in the female psyche is presented to the average Kiwi woman or her daughter, she will be fascinated with it. The current fashion amongst NZ teen girls, some as young as 12 in the school where I work, is Fifty Shades of Grey. They do not understand the wider connotations of misogyny (perhaps some of them do) but because that book has content that pushes yet another lot of social taboos, for sake of it, ie. showing sexual abuse as entertainment, these girls are into it. These girls will grow up to do casual mechanical sex with 100 men like all of their peers.

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        • its wierd – people go on about nz being a great place to bring up children which couldnt be further from the truth. we were horrified. having a teenage girl in london uk was safer and possibilities far greater – i think all parents can agree london isnt an easy place to be a parent. we left nz before our son even got close to that age. its tricky because in some ways son has been thrown under a bus and is being pulling up to global standard in a very short period and i feel a titch guilty about it. then again, light is at the end of the tunnel. in nz they havent even agreed on the tunnel, never mind started work.

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        • I think your analysis is extremely perceptive and it is a pity so many “experts” fail to grasp your analysis. It is lamentable that so many young girls grow up without having anyone teach them self respect and so many young boy fail to respect females or themselves.

          I do not know how these trends will reverse themselves except perhaps society will collapse and some natural force such as natural selection will reverse these trends.

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        • Funnily enough, nobody seems to have a solution for me when I ask the question:
          “What is it about the layabout guys that make girls and women attracted to them AND how can we make the good men, attractive in the same way?”
          While it is all well and good to talk about “men who abuse women”, the other side of the coin is:
          “women don’t usually put up with abuse that escalates to the physical unless the man is very special to them, so how can we make MORE men special to women, given the reality that women only find a few men worth enduring abuse for?”
          Since, only few men abuse …
          The flip side of domestic abuse against women, is …
          how many women get jailed for violence against their partners/spouses?
          In equal society, NOBODY gets away with hitting someone else where their injuries require treatment by a health professional.

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          • Hi P Ray. I think you have a fair question. How do we make boys into good men attractive to girls so they do not end up abused and messed up?

            A few years back, I tried to find a life partner on an internet dating site here. I agreed to meet a certain male who was interested in me. He was much older than me and not attractive but as I am interested in personality above appearance I was willing to have a conversation with this male. His greeting on meeting me under an oak tree in Christchurch went thus: “You got your own house?”

            In the staffroom at school one day, a different male recognised my face from that internet site I had my profile on. He had been interested in me too. Aside from the fact he was the size of Lord Farquad from Shrek, his pick-up line went thus: “I saw you on XYZ Dating site. I’ve got a house.”

            I overheard that same male talking to another female staff member ( who was not interested in him either). Interspersed in his conversation with her were these words that stood stood out like acne: bla bla bla hot; bla bla bla sexy; bla bla bla hot; bla bla bla awesome; bla bla bla hot.

            This guy was the ICT geek technician from the school. He was an example of one of the better kinds of NZ male. I am an untouchable stuck in Paradise surrounded by little trolls like these.

            The culture of the whole country of NZ would have to be completely changed if men are to change and I don’t see that happening to be honest. And because there are few non-layabout guys, the girls have nothing better to go out with. NZ does not have decent men available to go out with. Vibrant, kind clever men rarely exist in NZ. Slugs under wood do though. If men are truly decent, they are never on view, never around or are already married to clever nice women who were fortunate to meet them in Melbourne, the UK or Canada. And by decent, I am talking about emotionally intelligent males. You do not find them in NZ, not even in universities. In fact, some of the most narcissistic, boorish males in NZ are the most educated. One of them – Clayton Weatherston – is in prison for a long time for brutally murdering his girlfriend. NZ men are educated misogynists or dumb as chooks and they rule this country as chooks do. And the women who rule, devalue men’s identity by pandering to ideas that belittle men. It seems that the concept of a man with a heart and soul does not exist in NZ unless he is gay or politically correct in all the most distasteful ways. Somehow, NZ needs to create a climate for new boys which does not “feminise” them but enables and encourages them to become emotionally strong and in charge. Women need men to be in charge in order to respect them. NZ men are floundering pathetic wimps, largely thanks to never having had strong standards growled into them by things called fathers. Women end up rearing their sons alone because their husbands are such horrendous losers. Mothers trying to be fathers, get exhausted and demoralised and the cycle carries right on. Boys are not loved properly in stable environments any more than girls are.

            A friend of mine from Algeria told me his dad had growled at him so he was staying in his room to study English on the internet. He showed me a video clip of the men at the soccer match after the game. They were hyped up and emotional, playing their Middle Eastern music – without a drop of alcohol to fuel it. The passion in those men, you would never find in NZ men. Oh – a correction there, I did see similar passion in males, minus alcohol at the Diwali Festival of lights last year in Christchurch. Spanish tenor, Jose Carreras said he became an opera singer because the judge in the court ordered him to listen to an opera in a jail cell as a punishment for a crime he had committed. Carols Acosta, Cuban-born ballet star, came from abject poverty. His dad said he would learn ballet as discipline to bring him into line for committing crimes as a boy of 8 years. He told Carlos he would “cut off his legs if he did not go to ballet classes”. Boys in NZ need this kind of treatment if they are wallowing in low culture and picking their noses all day. They need to be driven with brute force if necessary, into higher culture which will make them successful, and attractive, with self-esteem, not just in ballet and opera but in other areas like the sciences too.

            I have met males from other countries who have no issues with dancing or education because it is part of their culture. A number of males from Chile and the Middle East I have met through cultural events, show a difference in personality and attitude compared to that of the NZ male. These males have pride in themselves, and don’t see the need to get drunk. They are gentle and well-mannered towards everybody. They can dance without shame at a Latin party and lead female dancers with confidence. It seems inherent in them, not stiff or contrived or “learnt”. No doubt they too would need more education about treating women with respect in some areas of domestic life, but they still, in most cases are more attractive, because they come from cultures which uphold music and the finest arts as normal and desirable. A woman would naturally want to give such a man her best qualities for him being like that.

            NZ men don’t have cultural experiences to make them more whole as people. The men from these other cultures carry substance, self-esteem and general knowledge plus they are well-groomed. They have been educated and find it strange that education in NZ is looked down on by so many Kiwis. These men are self-driven and they show respect for their parents. That is because their parents give them hell if they don’t respect them. They know the poetry of their countries and can quote it. They had to recite the Qran or Hafiz at school in front of everyone. They sit at the internet teaching themselves English language for something to do. It would be a rarity to find an NZ man doing that. An NZ man would be stuck in front of the TV with the rugby on or some hideous XBox game with his dirty socks and beer bottles scattered around the lounge. The other men from the outside are interested in politics and justice. They vote even if the odds are that corruption might be the outcome. They value beauty and nature in many cases. The average NZ man does not. He leaves smashed beer bottles in the Ashley River so kids can’t swim in it. The Chinese Christian migrant dad and his kids, go around picking up all the litter later. Or if the NZ male does value beauty, he wants it in a narcissistic way. He wants an attractive woman who he can use for sex to make himself feel better because he is such a pathetic loser. There is no concept of intimacy in the brain of an NZ man. Other countries have low men as I am describing as well but it seems they do have more of the better kinds of men as well. NZ is predominantly made up of low men who thinking farting and belching in public is so funny. Other countries have a wider spread of male identities which makes it less glaringly obvious.

            There is the issue with NZ parents not rearing their boys properly. They think it is funny when their sons fart openly and make dirty comments about women. NZ TV has parental advisors like Nigel Latter trying to get through to parents how to raise their kids better. It will rarely sink in. This is not the way to bring about the changes in my opinion. NZ is a huge sewerage pond. This is because the culture promoted in NZ is empty and mono if it is anything. It is all hot air – gas rather than rocks – all talk about “being positive” for what reason? To change the men of NZ in the future, the future government would have to create incentives to parents so they know how to drive their boys the right way because truth is, parents do not know what decent and high culture is. The last time ballet and opera was aired on TV was 1986. I remember that time. I talk about that because I like the beauty of it. Men who like it are nice people as well. They usually come from outside NZ. NZ TV today, consists of endless home improvement, foodie and travel programs which often shows what the rest of the world has to offer since NZ does not unless you are stinking rich. The obsession with primitive culture in NZ coupled with drinking bucketfuls of beer as the best thing on Earth is not funny, and it has to be changed. Alcohol is shown on TV too much. It is too cheap and easy to access. The boys’ and men’s club peer beer group has to be changed. To do that, there have to be other pursuits that are presented as better and more lucrative to boys and their parents. Alcohol has to be made as the lowest of the low. It won’t happen while the government makes piles out of alcohol taxes of course.

            Etiquette and good manners need to be taught to boys. A serious complaint from visitors who come to NZ is of the roughness and lowness seen amongst NZ children and teens. It is obvious because NZ has a small population and that population is dominated by the kind of low culture you would normally see spread out more in another country – perhaps. I think people from the outside feel it more because lowness is all that seems to be there. Boys (and girls) are brought up with the idea that it is normal to be rough, because “they are expressing themselves” and “showing their identity”. That’s American media culture perhaps and its translation into the NZ identities of kids. It is ugly. People who push and shove are horrible narcissistic types from the lowest backgrounds. This is being promoted in NZ families with layabout boys as normal even expected. I reprimanded two 15 year old boys at school yesterday, for merely play-fighting in class and throwing pencils and water around. They were surprised because a few other teachers turn a blind eye. I told these boys that NZ has one of the most violent cultures in the world for its population size. It begins with so-called pushing and shoving as a joke in class. They were told it was ugly, not attractive and not civilised and that no man should behave that way. They thought I was strange to say that. No boy from an Aisan or Middle Eastern family in NZ would have behaved like that as a general rule.

            Layabout guys attract girls here because they can. There are not enough men in NZ around to force competition through higher standards. Even educated men get drunk at university and trash the new toilet blocks at Canterbury University just after they have been built and boast about it. The boys in NZ follow the low culture of American media that shows vandalism and destruction of art or beauty as powerful and exciting. NZ males like to destroy beauty and they sneer at anyone who finds their attitudes here offensive. NZ males view girls as there to be used and abused as one sees in some of the movies like Too Fast Too Furious. I have heard conversations amongst boys in the schools where they clearly identify with the media that they are playing with as reality. That is what Kiwi boys do. They destroy the hearts and trust of any better NZ girls out there who are unfortunate enough to land up in a relationship with such males. And it is not just rubbish boys and men from the scum pond in black hoodies who are like that either. University males are into porn as much as rubbish types from South Auckland or cow-cockies of Invercargil are. NZ men, many of them who work on farms, torture animals as a joke. Parents are allowing low behaviour to develop while they wean their baby sons on Fanta and view it as normal. Why? Because this country is so busy addressing the needs of minority groups – the homosexual and racially persecuted population – that it has overlooked the epic needs of the ignorant, great-unwashed male population and their toilet-brained mothers and fathers and grandparents who are dying their hair plum and drinking grog as a pastime. As a result, a backlash has been created amongst the ignorant oafs and there is more homophobia, more aggression than ever before. There is even less respect for women and there are no men in NZ for good women to deserve. That is because the government does nothing about making higher culture and basic manners are viewed as seriously important. Rules are just not even there.

            People are always saying to NZ women who are crying their eyes out after yet another break up with an incompetent invertebrate: “Oh but you deserve so much better!” In NZ, there is NOTHING better to deserve. Women have to leave the country if they feel they deserve better. You cannot meet anyone here! It is not here on this soil, not in the university, not on the farm, not on the street, not over the counter in a shop, not at the dance party, not at church (that is even worse!) not in the bar and certainly not on internet dating. God. You find rapists out of prison on the internet. You find them in the churches of NZ too! Psychotherapists are paedophiles in this country! If decency is there, it is 65 years old or widowed, and too arthritic to dance. The younger NZ male is always divorced: A) from his 2 or 3 girlfriends and kids B) from anything that resembles decency. He does not know what that is. Anything that suggests intelligence or sensitivity is labelled ‘gay’ whether it be ballet or fruit and vegetables. Those educated men are so busy with their books, they don’t have time for intimacy. They are Mr. Kazabon types with distorted minds.

            Of course this is not limited to NZ, but it is certainly rife amongst NZ men, both young and old. You can go pig-hunting on the West Coast of the South Island but you don’t have to hunt for male scum at all.

            In NZ schools there is this enormous promotion of sport as the all and end all of NZ cultural identity, especially for the boys. Andrew McNaughton who’s a lecturer in Science Communications at Otago University touches on the problem in his creative fiction: http://assets.royalsociety.org.nz/media/AlwaysLookBehindontheTightrope_AndrewMcNaughton_37.pdf

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          • What an incredibly lucid, well-written post.

            Please consider submitting this to various NZ publications, if for no other reason than to share the responses you get with the expat community.

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          • Completely agree with all that and noticed the same thing. Even the ones from so-called “better families” (such as these are in NZ) are just….low. They don’t know how to treat women. And because so many of the men leave for jobs abroad, the women are desperate and take anything they can get. The men are misogynistic. Throwback attitudes without the old-style courtesy to go with them. Porn and dope, none of them seem to escape being addicted to that. They seem to fear not being seen as “respect-worthy men” and overcompensate in every respect. They won’t do housework. They’re mostly slobs. They all seem to resent women in a deep, vicious knee-jerk way that has no sense to it. They seem to want to put women in their place, or see them as a dangerous alien species at the very least. Warning to expat women – they dissemble and hide some of their worst stuff until they have you on the hook, as well. They’re cavemen, basically. Top of the Lake – it was too real for me to be able to sit through it. Beyond hope, for the most part, as far as finding a Kiwi who is up to the evolutionary level of your average UK, European, Canadian or American man. And no, I wouldn’t hook up with some Muslim either because of a dearth of Kiwis. Not a kind religion vis a vis women. There are millions of civilized and available men outside of NZ, India and the Middle East.

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          • @flamencoreb
            Unfortunately, you lost me at It is not here on this soil, not in the university, not on the farm, not on the street, not over the counter in a shop, not at the dance party, not at church (that is even worse!) not in the bar and certainly not on internet dating (that decent men can be found).
            Since there are quite a few foreigners in those places I’d wager.

            Again, I put it down to the fact that there is an undercurrent of racism against Asian males(even the kiwi ones), in that, in light of the few crimes that the media publish regarding some of the criminal minded …
            pretty much the Asian males are regarded as either “Nai Yin Xue” or “Akshay Anand Chand”.

            But you did praise them for their family values … in other words, and this nuance of your writings is something you need to reconsider:
            They’re respected … but NOT desired.
            I suspect relationships based solely around respect but not desire … don’t go the distance.
            “We grew apart” are the words …

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          • @flamencoreb
            No doubt they too would need more education about treating women with respect in some areas of domestic life, but they still, in most cases are more attractive, because they come from cultures which uphold music and the finest arts as normal and desirable. A woman would naturally want to give such a man her best qualities for him being like that.
            Oh whoops, I missed that … but at the same time, current marriage statistics don’t bear that out.
            Then again, I come from a family where married parents shared domestic duties when I was growing up … so the first part of the sentence really is, to me, hitting a bum note.
            Both parents are important, stable families encourage the development of productive and capable people …
            but you can only have that continue in a society where reciprocation exists.
            If people have a stake where they are, they will defend it.
            On the other hand, too many examples of the layabouts getting ahead … creates more of the same.
            “You get more of what you reward, and less of what you punish” is the term, I believe.

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        • i already notice that on party’s in NZ: the men gather in the lounge, the women associate in the kitchen. No mixing up to talk about general interest things that would interest men and women.

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          • My experience was that the women actively chased away the men who wanted to help in the kitchen.
            I guess growing up the kiwi guys learn that lesson fast.
            So it’s really a question of “what were they taught from young?”
            It’s difficult to change a society, when doing things the way people say they want things done … is shown through their actions, that they really don’t want it done, the way they say.

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    • I understand how you feel Farida. I literally feel crushed by the narrowness and lack of individuality or any hint of eccentricity among New Zealander’s. In general they seem to be all clones and conformers, afraid to be themselves, or to appear different, or stand out in any way. I blame it on all the sheep.

      I found the Nelson area to be different, lots of creative people. Maybe you’ll find what you are looking for in Melbourne. Good luck.

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    • The only people allowed to be clever in NZ are the All Blacks . Rugby was the be all and end all growing up there. Minor sports ( all others ) were merely tolerated. I grew to hate everything about it.
      I made good my escape in 2008 and a recent visit back to settle things only confirmed the rightness of my decision.
      It is a stifling place built up on the myths of fairness and individuality but lacks either.
      The idea of the hard working ,hard drinking but resourceful Kiwi joker may have had relevance into the 1960’s but seems to have been supplanted by a parody of the same and the kids are bereft of any useful role models of either gender. Their cultural references are either US Gangsta or stoned Eurotrash or whatever else is new from the US.
      Halloween in NZ, – what’s next , Thanksgiving?

      Australia is simply easier , bigger and not depressing. The Australians can be easily as boorish as my fellow NZ’rs but the quality of living is infinitely better and the houses are nicer and more affordable than some cold timber box in a place like Hastings or Matamata where Auckland’s new economic migrants are forced to live. God help them!

      I even preferred South Africa despite all it’s problems and would happily live in the Western Cape if it were possible.
      Most South Africans impressed me with their slighly old-world manners and generally superb English . The men were careful not to swear around the women , but when separate could curse beautifully. Maybe I was spoiled by the somwhat liberal and progressive Western Cape types though , and I did also meet real rooineks in The Orange Free State who could have fitted in easily in rural NZ. Their first encouters with Maori would probably be very educational ,if slightly bruising.
      Apart from the crime and dysfunctional apperatus of state the place is stunningly beautiful and the weather is mostly good. The people are also nice when they’re not trying to rob you too.
      The same applies to Namibia which is a relatively large country with a small population.
      It has all the amenties and better roads despite having the usual dysfunctional and corrupt African style of Government. Kind of puts the old NZ small tax base rationalization/ excuse in a different light. The malls in Windhoek are possibly better than Auckland.
      But they lack the political will to educate the majority of their population and improve their living conditions. Most of the spare cash ( lots of it ! ) goes on the ever evolving Presidential Palace the Chinese are building there. A folly of epic proportions!

      NZ had an excuse for being insular and boring once, but not now. I shall never return to live apart from the odd holiday of short duration.
      I’m an ex NZ’er , part Maori, married to a South African , and yes , I actually played Rugby well at school but was an even better athlete. Scant recognition there though.
      Mediocrity was a thing to be cultivated in all other areas except ,off course, Rugby.

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      • myths of fairness and individuality

        Merit is undervalued [fairness] and conformity is overvalued [individuality].
        Stiffing environment that resists advancement or improvement.

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    • I appreciate much of what you say, but, i do however take exception to your comments on the repeal and changes to section 59a of the crimes act.
      The law as it was written stated that a parent could use “justifiable force” in relation to a defence of abuse of a minor. This meant if their parent had used physical force to beat or otherwise discipline them they could use that as a defence in a court of law.
      This is as we can all agree just simply BullS**t.
      59A of the act was simply changed to remove this defence, and to lead to a breaking of the horrendous record we have in this country of child abuse. No child should be disciplined with physical force- ever.
      to put it simply, we have laws that prevent and adult assaulting another adult. It’s called assault for a reason, yet we didn’t extend to a child the same protection under law. The change does now afford that protection, and gives those whose job it is to protect and serve the real ability to protect and serve everyone, including minors.

      Since the change, No parent has been prosecuted for simply giving a light spank, though IMO that is unnecessary. And no child has been able to hold a parent to ransom with threats of going to to the police.
      Yes there is still an appalling level of violence directed towards children, but it will take more than 10 years to change what was once acceptable in the eyes of many.

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  33. I meant to say…..I am planning to move as well. There are madmen like Gareth Morgan in Auckland who wants all cats killed or kept inside 24/7 because of bird issues. NZ is no good anymore. I love the nature and and the hills but the people here are very frustrating.

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  34. Thanks, flamencoreb, it looks like Air NZ is the safest way out for my cats. About Gareth Morgan, it’s just a cat hater: what about dogs that go after birds, like ducks and chickens and probably Kiwi birds and Pukeko’s as well, if they could catch them. One of my chickens had the luckiest escape from a stray dog that came on our property, she had to miss all her fluffy tail feathers for a while (have it completely fenced off now).

    Farida, nice to read something from a local, just get out to see some more of the world, not sure if you would find a completely different world ‘across the ditch’, but it’s a start. Good luck.

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  35. Thanks for your comments. I do hope you plans for your kitties and yourself work out. Australia for me, is a start because I have a few connections there and the weather is good there too. I’d like to go to Spain again but I am not sure how much work I would get there at the moment. 25% unemployment in Spain is where it is at so I am not sure that they would want outsiders coming by to ask for jobs!

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  36. Thanks to Calvan and Judith for your comments. I am not sure that any Kiwi editor would accept my writings to be honest because they too are most likely to be similar low life characters as I have described. I have to leave NZ for awhile and travel. It is not easy. there parts of me that want to stay because I do love the natural environment here. But that is all there is here; there’s nothing else and certainly nobody to share or explore it with who is not 65 years old. Judith, I would not even consider a Muslim as a partner but what I have observed is the Muslim men’s manners that are different here compared with NZ men’s. We have nothing else here which is the big problem for NZ women and it is a big reason why they leave.

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  37. As a complete outsider living what can only be described as an urban war zone in the current South Africa with a failing health / electricity/ education/ water system and one of the highest murder rates in the world, NZ at this moment in time is looking from here like Utopia, how many cars has the average New Zealander had stolen (I’ve lost two) how many times has your house been broken into ( six times, twice cleaned out) and all this whilst I was unemployed without any benefits what so ever.
    Most of our road deaths come from drunken driving and or drunken pedestrians.
    Yes I have a nice house, but I can no longer afford the electricity bill (when we have power)
    Believe me you have no idea what corruption is until you have lived in Africa,here it is an art form from the president down.
    Unfortunately my age and lack of funds will prohibit me and my wife from moving to what seems to be, (even from a distance) a very civilised cultural and inviting country.

    wanabeakiwi

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  38. All of those problems are present here in New Zealand the only difference is that the corruption here is covered up and the crime stats are falsified. Read some of the stories on this site and you’ll find out, even car jacking and babies getting stolen from hospital. At least you have security screens and fences in South Africa, most NZ homes don’t even have secure windows and doors.

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  39. S. Africa sounds awful. Many fleeing saffers seem to just wait out the citizenship period in NZ and then flee onward to Australia. NZ is better than S. Africa. But it’s NOT better than many other countries people emigrate from, duped by the NZ self-promotion.

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  40. I have lived in NZ for 4 years now and find it incredibly alienating. Kiwis of a similar age range that have any sense or intelligence are overseas. On one hand I am glad I have a job here (left UK during the recession when there were no positions even for qualified people) on the other hand I know I will never advance to the next level in said job as I have no family ties to Kiwis. I have seen people given jobs because they know a certain person or have the same hobbies as someone else, while qualified people are passed by. I would like to be able to buy a house but at the same time would like to keep my health (unlikely to happen in a draughty shack). Driving here you take your life in your hands as they are quite self absorbed “if i crash I can buy a new car” nevermind you might kill someone else and ruin an entire familie’s future. Their general lack of self preservation, especially when it comes to their children is down right sickening “he can play by the rocks next to the sea without me watching him”, the she’ll be alright attitude is maddening. I’m fully sick of being made to feel like I am the one who is strange for not wanting to do any of the following: drive drunk, break the speed limit, take drugs, leave doors unlocked while asleep or play bloody netball. The kiwis that tend to not see the truth of things are the middle/upper middle class. “Daddy’s a lawyer, mum looks after the pet lambs and they pay for everything until i marry the farmer. Then I’ll only continue to work until i have one child, after that I’ll collect gold rings and go for coffees.” Even a university education means little here, they are so distrustful of anyone not from Godzone and often do not have any knowledge outside of their specified field. I’m so glad i found this site, they were starting to make me feel like the insane one.

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    • Spot on. I would never buy a shack for a record price. I will be very happy to sell our shack for a record price though and get the hell out of this godforgotten country. I HATE IT HERE. The year 2015 will be special to me, the year that I will leave NZ to never come back. I think I am going to kiss the one way ticket and the plane that gets me out of here forever.

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  41. Regret – you are very not alone and very not insane. Those of us who post here (and who used to post on expatexposed before the owner moved on) were gobsmacked by these traits and could not stomach them. Their society is f*cked up. There is nothing wrong with you. I hope you set yourself the priority of moving on somewhere else. Even Australia would be better than that. So glad to have left, as long as it took us. We had nothing when we left – sucked off of us, every penny. Had to borrow to leave. A few years on, we have recouped but not as ahead as those who never left in the first place. Set back permanently by moving to New Zealand – but still glad not to be there anymore. Leave, man. Nothing wrong with you.

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  42. this is all so true – 30% of all brits who go to NZ come back and there are darn good reasons why, I believe others just cant afford to come back otherwise the stats would be higher – people in NZ dont want us brits taking their jobs – they only want you you to do the jobs they dont want – dont touch is with a 10 foot barge pole its a nightmare – we came back after giving it nearly 3 years – back in blighty life is fab – thank my lucky stars every day we just came back

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    • @Jackiejo – I know people from several different countries who are stranded here (one couple for 28 years) and either the cost of trying to survive here, children, grandchildren, or poor health prevents their return. I also know many would be immigrants here who are planning to leave (I am going home to Canada in 2016) but it is so fucking hard to just pay to live here – even on a “good” income – that it is much more difficult to get home than anyone who lives in a developed country might imagine. And yes, the society is a tough one to adapt to. Counting the months till I leave.

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  43. Yes, I migrated to NZ back in 1997 to establish a business in Christchurch. My experence was very unpeasant having to deal with dishonest misleading professionals in the commercial property industry. I had a young dauaghter and married to a Kiwi i decided to take 18 months out of work and enjoyed family life.
    I have no regrets about leaving NZ and would not reside there again. Very pretty country, but not much of a future for young people. Like most countries there is a boys club to contend with which i find quite perverse.
    If you intend migrating to NZ, go there temporarily and don’t pack up and close the door on your country of origin. In my case it cost me an absolute fortune and I left my house in Christchurch without selling it.
    Now After quite a number of years I am having to deal with the corupt insurers post earthquake. In a nutshell don’t go there if you have a young family as they will leave to seek a future elsewhere when they grow up.
    I have had disagreements with my wife as she would like to reside in NZ. I am quite adamant that I will never return or stumble over the same rock twice.
    On the surface NZ looks ok but a much different place if you are trying to make a living.
    I did some charity work while in Christchurch to deploy my what talent i had and what I observed I found quite disturbing. There a terrible drug culture and high prevalence of alcohol abuse.
    The approach to doing business and work is very sloppy. It is not a society I like,enough said.

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  44. Yes, NZ is not the best culture and totally culturally segregated- no soul to this culture and people are easily insulted so much that it is abnormally so. No personal skills whatsoever to handle differences or conflicts. You must go with everyone else to make it and cannot be yourself. This is a total sexist country and the North Island even more so. Women will not support you as they have been on their own and so will you have to be on your own. They will downplay and deny everything to defend their country and its people. It is downright BACKWARDS, not other way to say it. Men will not be gentlemen and expect you to put out the first night on a date- no respect, no boundaries, no cares or shall I say NO WORRIES. It is laidback in a negative way and certainly not easy going.

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  45. I will tell you of a little experience… Called the NZ police one night due to some fireworks going past 10 pm during work week. Phoned police to see if there was anything they could do. After my first 2 sentences I got cut-off and could not disconnect for about 10 min. So I phoned back and shortly got a message from the person I was talking to to call back. I only mentioned fireworks and noise ordinance issues, nothing else. When I called back the next lady (generally only ladies have these sort of jobs in NZ) told me that she needed my details and that she would send someone by in the neighborhood and that I would need to call the council for noise ordinance issues. Her and I did not get on well as this is the common practice among Kiwi women as they think they are a notch above outsiders and do not like foreign women much. Anyhow I got off the phone and decided to go to bed then about 30 min later I heard a loud knock on the door… I did not get up to answer it but the Kiwi lady with the multiple personality disorders (this is quiet common here) living in the front apartment decided to answer the door and let the police in. It was about 11 pm and other people in the building were in bed too. The police knocked loudly on my door and since they were in the building I did not want to make a huge deal about it or cause more probs for others so I answered. Anyway they said they were there to search the premises. I asked why- they never said why but enforced themselves to look in my flat but I did not let them in and said I did not consent to anything as I knew the laws in the US and many are universal just not asserted in NZ as the people hardly assert their rights as most live in fear… Anyway the Kiwi Pakeha female cop put her foot in the door so I could not close it and the lady with the multiple personalities who was quite obliging, took her around my back door to look in but I still did not let the cops into my flat. They then said there was a call that dropped out as my first call had dropped out and that is why they were there for domestic violence but they knew my name only because when I made the second call and told them about the fireworks issue in more detail they got my name but only in the 2nd call, not the first they were referring to. NZ police will lie to you and they are racists and will gang up on you with other Kiwi people if they can. Be forewarned and the police had no reason to come to my flat and wake me for a fireworks call and cause me trouble but for whatever reason they did. I am not sure if the prob was because of sloppy business practice which is usually the case or if the lady dispatcher during my second call wished to take me for a ride by reporting things that were not true just because she did not like me. In NZ you will never know if it is mere stupidity and carelessness or racism and dislike but generally it is the latter- just ask the Maori.

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  46. I not only have an allergy now to some of the trees or flower pollens in NZ but also the people- the people here who hate and dislike outsiders, who use them to advance themselves yet treat them like 2nd class citizens, who use and abuse others and their own. To be frank, you will not find much class in NZ and the manners some have are all they have to cover-up for their ignorance. Fake is the word and passive-aggressive is the nature. Literally, a fool’s paradise. human rights have little meaning and inconveniences are not taken seriously in anyway. Tough sh*t attitude throughout the society full stop.

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  47. Segregation lines are being drawn in New Zealand not only between Pakeha and Maori (latest half Austrian half Scottish PM comments about NZ history), but generally between kiwi and foreigners. To my experience parts of local “culture” is being taken over by alcohol and drugs, with rugby on the background, and this is what “foreign tourists” (new settlers) who came here to build a new life not often easily buy into. Growing region depopulation, the monstrosity of Auckland, whole streets of empty houses in provincial New Zealand towns (Wanganui is good example) are just a few features of John Keys segregated Aotearoa New Zealand. When this government wants to completely stop taking care of us, it starts segregating us into orientations, ethnicities, cultures, whatever the division line they can draw, they will draw it – DIVIDE AND CONQUER – free trade deal is signed with Communist China and TPPA is in the way!

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  48. So happy to have found this sight. We’ve been living in NZ for over 12 years and would find it financially impossible to return to the US. We now have a 7 year old daughter and I’m struggling with the New Zealand educational system. At first I thought it was because of it being more British, but it seems like a lot of the British parents are not very happy either.WE have made many friends here, ALL of them (with one exception) non-Kiwis. As I speak with other parents I am finding that they are just as frustrated as I am and it has reached the point that I just send my child to school “for social interaction” and I am “homeschooling” her during all the breaks to catch her up as it does not seem like they are learning anything other than swimming and art. How have others here dealt with the HUGE difference in expectations (or lack of them??) Any advice or suggestions for a frustrated and tired parent?

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    • Hi there, replying to comment about education system, I am English and was trying to bring my son up in NZ, by the time he got to seven I was seriously worried, I have brought him back to UK – it’s not perfect here, but he himself says he was working to ‘lowest level of his ability’ in NZ, here he is challenged and is finally learning to write – is still behind due to terrible start in NZ, but he will catch up eventually, I brought him back when he was nearly ten. Lots of people feel the same. He has missed out on entire primary school curriculum, last term in UK learnt Anglo Saxon and Roman history, Hindu religion and a whole unit on rocks and minerals – this would have been impossible in NZ – he did 2 science projects in 4 years there!

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      • jenny – we spent a year in canada post nz. it was ‘nz, the revenge’. jacked it in and returned to europe, which has loads of problems, but not in education. in less than 2 years my son has learned/ is learning 3 new languages (1 down, 2 halfway) and he has music etc back on the curiculem, arts too. sports far higher standard. personal freedom. teachers dont strike tho have a little too much attitude for my liking. social culture sans alcohol. easy travel – exposure to diff cultures. oh ya – penmanship – they are still big on it. 11 yr old writes better than 24 yr old schooled in canada, uk, nz. uk schools are generally excellent and i think you were brave/ smart going back – i thought about it but lost nerve as the uk isnt the best place to be without support.

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  49. Dear Anonymous poster, I sympathise with your frustration over the NZ education system. I like to describe myself as a New Zealander, not a Kiwi. I am different because I do not fit in with NZ society as a whole. In fact, most Kiwis believe that I am from another country. At first I found that very strange, but now I realise that it is simply because I value finer and higher cultures from other countries that Kiwis scorn and reject. I was born in the 1970’s. My parents were born here during WW2 and my great grandparents arrived in the 19th century. For some reason, I had a different upbringing which excluded me from the rest of NZ society somewhat. It has been sheer hell for me at times, trying to fit into NZ society. I had no friends at school who liked classical music. The kids were always rough and cruel. Everyone had to do sports and if you did not drink alcohol, as I found later on in life, there was absolutely no friendships to be had anywhere without a lot of searching. My friends were always elderly people, not young people because I just could not fit in with the horrible lifestyles of my younger peers. Generally speaking, I cannot stand my fellow Kiwis. I find them low and uneducated – disgusting in fact. All my friends come from other countries: the US, UK, Middle East and Europe. I love the nature of NZ but I dislike Kiwis. Kiwis are the ones who damage the flora and fauna of NZ more than migrants. They drop rubbish everywhere and they are dirty people. I find broken beer bottles in the formerly clean rivers at times after low scum progeny of Kiwis have been there to smoke their weed etc. They are drunken, horrible, scumbags, both the men and the women. They are utterly ignorant and cannot figure out that detergent on the dishes is not edible and should be rinsed off, not left to dry on the dishes. Kiwis are fools with chemicals. The women here are probably the most responsible for the high cancer rates here with their indiscriminate use of household, chemical sprays like fly sprays and Exit Mould. They touch that stuff with their bare hands and force everyone to breathe it in because they do not read the warning labels! “She’ll be right mate!” That’s the Kiwi for you. Their kids I teach in schools at times. I like teaching because I do not work full time. I would hate to be a full time teacher. It is not pleasant.

    Let me tell you that your frustration with the NZ education system comes from Waikato University where a bunch of smart bums on seats are busy recreating the education system each year and importing truckloads of crap that did not work in the UK and US to implement the NZ education system. National Standards and E-Asttle are examples of this rubbish that is imported here like crap clothes from China. I have just been relieving in an intermediate school over the last three weeks and the teachers are exhausted from delivering the most time-consuming, bureaucratic testing systems to each child in their school. They have no choice in the matter and they hate this. They do not have time to teach which is why I have been brought into the school to relieve. Nice for me of course! The teachers are forced to spend long hours in front of the computer 7 days a week writing comprehensive reports (in John Key’s plain English for parents) at this time of the year. The National Standards reports do not change the fact that children are not getting proper teaching in the basics and are failing miserably in some cases. It is not the faults of the teachers.

    The reason that grammar is all but banned from our schools at primary level is because there are a bunch of bright sparks right up there in the Waikato University with clever dick PHDs in education that show us that grammar makes young people walk of tall buildings and therefore it is no longer necessary to be taught in schools. Just so you know. I saw and heard for myself when at the Christchurch College of Education in 2009, the English Lecturer who told us: “Kids don’t need grammar” . I got into trouble when I asked why it was that when I learnt Spanish, grammar was really important but in English, somehow it is not. At the end of the day, the problems of the NZ education system come from A) the government B) the friends of the government in the Colleges and Universities of Education which teach the future teachers and B) the Teachers’ Council. Teachers are not allowed to teach your children as they wish. They have to teach what they are told to teach. Some teachers totally ignore all the nonsense and teach the old-fashioned way anyway but those kinds of braver, more mature teachers are few and far between these days. I have to say that I taught myself English grammar off the internet because I did not know enough even from my times at school years ago.

    And kids have to do addition and subtraction the “hard way” these days. It is not enough to just get on with algorithms for these areas because a fantastic, proactive, genius who went to Massey University, whose name is Bobby, has decided that kids have to do horizontal problem-solving for addition and subtraction to stop them getting dementia early in life. Three weeks ago, I encountered six Year 7 Level children who could not do subtraction with renaming (or borrowing). They could not do it because the method Bobby’s clever maths was too hard for them to get their heads. I, unwittingly showed them how to do algorithm subtraction and they learnt the method immediately and were very happy about that. However, it transpires that the children at Year 7 and 8 may not do algorithm to help them answer maths questions in tests. They have to do it the hard way. It is this kind of stupidity from clever geniuses with Phd’s in Education that is responsible for the failure of children at school too. You are dealing with insane bureaucracy to bright sparks can have their salaries to invent clever systems and eat cakes with John Key’s friends. Don’t let me carry on or I will be writing more than too much on here.

    I hope you understand now. Good on you for home-schooling your kids. I know plenty of parents who are doing the same as you are and I have been tutoring them myself too.

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  50. Yup, homeschooling is the answer. Make sure that you register, you can get a stipend from the govt. The MoE is shocking, they really don’t do much more that what you’ve noticed. The “social interaction” is a double edged sword, they may be exposed to things you and your kids would be better off not being exposed to.
    It is a financial trap, we’d find it VERY difficult to leave now. You have enough time in to get citizenship, then move to Oz [something we’ve looked at and would do]. Develop friendships [we’ve got a few Kiwi friends, mostly SA though], and do the best you can.

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  51. Sounds like another incompetent and badly educated government unable to improve living standards , and infrastructure . It appears it has not changed since I was last there a decade ago , such a sad state of affairs for such a beautiful country .
    I often wondered why my daughter really left the country , now I understand

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  52. just biding time and treading water until we can exit…..
    Only bonus currently a high dollar so means when we cash up we will be able to afford a decent home in our new country.

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  53. I can only agree 100% with these comments. Such an immature country and a very short term thinking thinking nation. I would never energise any business in NZ

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  54. Well New Zealand joined many countries by having an idle, uneducated , and overpaid government and for having a lack of choice of political parties and politicians . NZ had such a good reputation at one point in time , but bad immigration policies and a lack of understanding what infrastructure really is , has brought the country to where it is today . NZ could have been an example to the world , unfortunately it will now never happen , such a waste of a beautiful country .

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    • PG – I so agree! And those politicians are uncultured more than anything! They have no art education – it is all commerce running NZ with no respect for depth of character in human beings.

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  55. Hello,
    Fist of all I am glad I found this website and could read some different opinions.
    I just came back from a a few weeks holiday in NZ, I visited some cities and the countryside as well.My intention was not just for holiday but to see how the lifestyle,enviroment etc. was.
    Before i go there i was researching from the internet and I guess even reading some negative reviews wanted to think very positive because it seemed such a nice country. Just to note I am living in europe and where i live has its own problems so not perfect here as well. I met a guy who is from Auckland and lived all his life in NZ. ( we met several months before i came to Nz in europe when he was here for work purposes for two months.) He is such a nice guy and i fall in love with him. I truly believe he can be my life partner.
    He is asking me to move there too. But after visiting and trying to see it with a place to live I don’t think the beatifull landscape can make up for all the negative things i could review in a few weeks. I guess there are so many efforts to show nz a bit different than it is in the social media. Or i was too optimistic and just looked at nice pictures and read nice things.

    The things i figured out in a few things were not much different than written here. So i am happy that i am not alone or just being to picky. I find it so expensive even as a tourist who had a free place to stay, houses too expensive, no social life as going out is very expensive for many people.As well as cinema, theathre,concert . Well cultural activities in general… It just feels so isolated if you don’t live in the middle of Auckland and can afford going out. Where i live I can make the choice to eat out if i want to and there are nice places like bars, restraunts for low budget as well. I have been invited to some sport events . We watched it together but when i said i am not familier with cricket and not really intrested in the people got very upset. This way of thinking made me sad. Not everybody needs to have a passionate in cricket and rugby. Also felt like people are not very open minded and accept differences. I am 30 and I have a job here where i live, friends and family. Although I am willing a lot to make a fresh change in my life like changing place and country I am not sure this is the right place for me. I really want to belive that NZ is great and i want to live with him madly but I don’t want to make a big mistake with my life and regret my choices. I am not a person to get afraid of taking risks but I also don’t want to act stupid . I am afraid I might become unhappy in the future. As I say there are lots of problems in where i live too but here i have family, friends and a job that cover my expenses and by taking a two hours plane i can travel to a destination for a weekend with different food, culture etc. On the other hand in NZ he will be the only person i know and i get a feeling people are not open to make new friends and with life being so expensive i will get stuck in just the city suburb where we will live together. ( i dont think we will live in auckland center as rents unbelivably expensive. ) And maybe can see my family and old friends once a year if i can save some money for ticket. He seems to get used to this kind of lifestyle and not complaining much and likes where he lives so much.

    My decision is already almost no to go there. But wanted to share my thoughts as well.
    Thanks for all the posts here. They give a good idea of the overall picture and you dont think you are crazy when all you hear is nz awesome country when you think the opposite.

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    • You could try it, leave children [having children] out of the equation until you know for sure about whether you think NZ is for you.
      The isolation [no family] and the distance to visit “other places” is hard to overcome.
      The problem that many have is becoming “trapped”, getting to NZ, spending all of your $
      getting set up, then not being able to afford to leave.
      In your case, if this fellow has a place to stay, you’d not have that expense. Leave your stuff [at home]
      in storage or with your family, and have enough $ saved for a return ticket and enough $ saved to get on your feet again. DO NOT BECOME FINACIALLY DESTITUTE WHILE IN NZ. With those few stipulations, you’d be good to go.

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      • Wise advice. As a New Zealander, I am struggling to earn enough to get out of my own country. It is hell on earth apart from the beautiful nature which I can only value alone because there is nobody of worth or education here to experience it with me. Foreigners are the ones who respect the NZ environment, no so many New Zealanders themselves. Yes. Do not come here without a contingency plan in case you have to leave!

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    • @ asli :

      Unfortunately, these seem to be the two most likely outcomes. Be wary, and you’d be wise to keep the whole “pre-purchased airline ticket” thing to yourself.
      An opportunity to catch a Kiwi in its’ natural environment might be extremely illuminating.

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    • I am a fifth generation New Zealander. I can identify with your concern about the low behaviour of Kiwis who took offence at your dislike of cricket and rugby. I hate rugby! I hate it. It is boring HELLL. I say it strongly so you can feel you did not do anything wrong in having your opinion. NZ is a monculture. They do not know what classical music is and they think Maori kapahaka and language is the all and end of culture in this place. Nobody knows who Rachmaninov was; they do not know where Farsi language came from, and they leave the soap on their dishes and spray fly spray around the house and breathe it in saying “she’ll be right” then wonder why NZ women get breast cancer by the truckload! I cannot identify with the so-called NZ culture as it stands today. It is boring. It is hell. Terrible. The drunkenness is foul and I live alone like a nun because I can’t bear the men here, the rugby and alcohol. DON”T COME TO LIVE IN NZ if you have high standards, values and love higher culture or men who can speak in proversb! NZ men speak with their mouths shut and they don’t know what a metaphor is. People here think classical music is Elvis Presley. All they do is smoke and drink and listen to boring jazz played by elderly old cruddy bags in some seedy cafe in Auckland. Yuck! They think that is so amazing. I survive meanwhile because I met Iranian immigrants who have been suffering depression. We do Persian things and that stops me from wanting to kill myself in NZ. They are my friends for now….till I can get enough money to leave the country.

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    • go with your gut feeling..it is never wrong……do not get yourself hooked up with someone who will stifle your life……NZ is 20 years behind the times…was even back in the 1960’s when I lived there….I live in Canada now and it is a wonderful country….safe, modern, affordable, friendly, multicultural etc etc. ….even the 4 different seasons aren’t a problem…winter is good…..

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  56. I almost made the same mistake. I followed my Kiwi fiance over from London to New Zealand and lived with him in Hamilton for six months. The change in him was shocking, he went from urbane and sophisticated to a beer swilling toe rag who expected me to wait in like the good little woman while he went out on the piss with his old mates night after night.

    His brother also brought new blood back from England with him, they now have two kids and she hated the place and was being medicated for depression. She couldn’t leave because she couldn’t take them them out of New Zealand until they’re 16 due to some weird law they have over there. I think I had a very, very lucky escape, my life could so easily have been hers.

    3 months after I came back to England I was offered a superb job (I couldn’t find one in Hamilton, not even in a supermarket) and met a lovely local guy. We’ve got a place together in St Albans and things are looking very good.

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    • Superficial charm and grandiose pronouncements without an actual background of achievement, are among the hallmarks of … psychopathy.
      It’s a good thing you waited before tying the knot, as sometimes people are just putting on an act while they’re overseas, and back home you discover they’re effectively a zero.

      Kind of like that series “Charisma Man” …

      Somewhat related, is the unpleasant idea that psychopathy is a genetically inheritable condition. Makes you look again at “The Omen” differently, eh?

      You had a very lucky escape indeed.

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    • i experienced same. my youthful escape involved a wealthy ‘sophisticated’ kiwi who became – accord to mates – his inner neanderthal upon return. met loads of women who tooks assets there, had babes and founds themselves trapped, alone, assetless and very very desperate. none felt being there was worth it, all needed family help at home but courts would not alllow moving – even when father did/contributed zilch. its bizarre but follow the money – its always about money. kiwis have rights to everything, responsibility for nothing.

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  57. The reason why I am leaving New Zealand at the end of 2017 are the following reasons despite having lived here with my parents for more than 20 years:

    Isolation is a very real thing when you have family members who live in Hong Kong.

    Employment Opportunities are lacking in New Zealand, I want to be a Network Engineer, I rather move back to Asia say Japan where chances I can expand or further my career.

    Food is so expensive here say when you want to buy some sealord fish or Big Ben pies in Asia, it justs cost a third less than New Zealand

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  58. kiwis never bring broke partners home – think about that.

    fastest asset transfer in nz history. you don’t even have to live together but after 2 years your assets become 50% theirs (:

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  59. wish i had a dollar for every time someone said ‘going to nz idnt about money’. ITS ALL ABOUT MONEY. every last bit of it. if you approach it from that angle and plan accordingly you might just get through.

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  60. Has anyone noticed that food tend to be more expensive in New Zealand, say a box of sea lord fish, they are a third cheaper in terms of price in Hong Kong than New Zealand

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  61. I’d just like to start by saying THANK GOD I found this forum. I was shifted to New Zealand by my parents when I was 15 years old. At 15 the idea of moving to New Zealand was exciting! I imagined it would be such an amazing change. First we went for a 3 week holiday where my parents had interviews in various NZ cities and we could get a feel for the place. I WAS MORTIFIED. It was NOTHING like I imagined. Rough. Not a lot going on. People didn’t seem civil?
    My parents decided on Invercargill and its fair to say I was less than thrilled. I didn’t want to move from Leeds and begged for them to change their minds. We got to Invercargill and I attended a girls school where no one was particular warming, no one knew anything about England, my accent was mocked (even by teachers) and I found myself hating my time there. I would go to school and not utter a word all day.
    I stuck it out until I finally went to university in Christchurch. I found Christchurch EXTREEEMELY clique-y. If you’re not from Christchurch then they don’t wanna know you. If you do something differently to the way they do it they can’t comprehend it. I was fortunate to meet a few people I got along with but since graduating don’t really keep in touch with. They were mostly acquaintances, I never really made deep friendships like I did in the UK.
    I’m now 22 with my degree and I’m eager to get back to the UK to start my life and start making friends. I’ve always known something was wrong here. My parents currently live in a small town in Hawkes Bay and have been burgled around 5 times. On one of these occasions my dad’s wedding ring was stolen. For me, that was the last straw, I tell my parents it’s time to move on but I don’t think they want to admit that New Zealand may have been a mistake.
    I only hope they decide to retire back to the UK in a few years time.
    Another thing that has truly irked me whilst being in NZ is how they believe they are notorious for so many things? Marmite? Fish and Chips? Gum Boots? Pineapple lumps? Hokey Pokey? The only people who think NZ is known for these things is people from NZ, to the rest of the world they’re known for rugby and the lord of the rings. I feel that the huge sense of self pride is to compensate for how behind they are with the rest of the world.
    I’m pretty excited to leave this place for good.
    I’d love to hear from people who have decided to go back to the UK and how you found it? I am concerned about comments like ‘Why did you come back to the UK?!’ I just don’t think its a great place to be at the age of 22. I feel like I’m wasting away my 20’s.

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    • I had the misfortune to have nearly three years in New Zealand, but thankfully, I managed to immigrate to a third country and I have made a great life for myself.

      My suggestion would be to leave for the UK as soon as possible. I cannot advise you on career prospects without knowing your situation better, but you are far more likely to find dynamic and interesting work in the UK compared to New Zealand. I imagine that you could stay with extended family as you work to find something.

      New Zealand is a very stultifying place and the people are coarse, insecure, insular, and usually stupid. Succeeding in that environment is challenging and New Zealand is the antithesis of a meritocracy. Go now before you struggle and lose time in New Zealand. I took two steps back in my career when I moved to New Zealand and I struggled to find something good. I have fortunately returned to the First World. I have marvellous career opportunities and I meet far more interesting and kinder people daily.
      Feel free to leave your e-mail if you want to discuss in more detail.

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    • Hi there, it was my dream to move to NZ after all the over-crowdedness of UK (and cold, dreary weather). I still think it has some fantastic aspects. Firstly, when travelling around in 1999/2000, Invercargill struck me as the WORST place – end of earth, really cold, and de-populated – why on earth did your parents choose that place. I decided to go to the centre of it all, near Wellington, Kapiti coast to be exact and was not disappointed. There you can access culture, there’s alot of what is interesting in UK in miniature – its own literary festival, garden open days, local artists opening, lovely beaches, gorgeous international cafes – in short, an exceptionally wonderful lifestyle. Hawkes Bay is another out of the way place. I think to enjoy NZ if you come from a multi-cultural place like UK (and UK varies hugely too!!!) you must go to within striking distance of Wellington or Nelson, maybe even some other cities like New Plymouth but definitely not to Invercargill. I feel so sorry that you were plunged into a narrow minded school at the age of 15, just when you were settled in UK. That was awful, and probably coloured your idea of NZ really negatively. For me, the problems came with education system, and I’ve moved my son over here aged almost 9, he simply wasn’t learning anything much at all, the schools seemed devoid of content up to year 9 or so, just the odd project very occasionally. He’s having such a rich education over here in UK in comparison, but we still both miss the lovely relaxed pace of NZ, the uncrowded roads, the sunny weather, the friendliness of friends we met, the easiness of it all and so much more – including all the freedom he had to cycle along river paths, along wide pavements, down to the local tennis courts – I hardly ever see a child on a bike in UK. What I’m trying to say is, I think your parents chose the worst NZ had to offer and feel sorry for you. Before you leave, why not stop off and have a few days in Nelson or Wellington, you may see another side of it, stop off on Kapiti Coast. I don’t think it’s all as bad as you now think….

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    • I can relate to your story and you still have your whole life ahead of you 🙂 I have spent too many years here wasted. My fault, i know, but when you come from South Africa, one doesn’t have many options. South Africa is great, but violent crime is out of control there. I am currently living in Auckland city and have been for the last 3 years. I am now dealing with depression and anxiety and i’m only in my late 20’s. It is fair to say that Auckland has not been what i thought it would be. It is far from this clean, green adventurous paradise that everyone portrays. I have no friends( acquaintances, yes) mainly because I have isolated myself from people i know as i have no time for small talks. Deep thoughts are very rewarding and that is lacking around here. i don’t know what is next for me and my partner as this country has divided us. Is leaving an option? Possibly!

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  62. I had the misfortune to have nearly three years in New Zealand, but thankfully, I managed to immigrate to a third country and I have made a great life for myself.

    My suggestion would be to leave for the UK as soon as possible. I cannot advise you on career prospects without knowing your situation better, but you are far more likely to find dynamic and interesting work in the UK compared to New Zealand. I imagine that you could stay with extended family as you work to find something.

    New Zealand is a very stultifying place and the people are coarse, insecure, insular, and usually stupid. Succeeding in that environment is challenging and New Zealand is the antithesis of a meritocracy. Go now before you struggle and lose time in New Zealand. I took two steps back in my career when I moved to New Zealand and I struggled to find something good. I have fortunately returned to the First World. I have marvellous career opportunities and I meet far more interesting and kinder people daily.
    Feel free to leave your e-mail if you want to discuss in more detail.

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    • I have stayed in new zealand for seven years on and off,since 2002.I had in 2009 august returned to my moms funeral,and my travel visa expired april 2010,on application to return again i was refused a travel visa,yet i have and indefinite residency visa..i have spent 100 of thousands trying to qaulify,,including travel fees,yet i would like to attain my status,i am a SOUTH AFRICAN,I worked as bricklayer,corrections officer,tree felling operating heavy machinery,drove extra heavy vehicles,petrol tankers,etc, i dont want to really stay there but would like my status,as by now i would have had my new zealand passport,the authorities want me to make a whole new application,and were the money come from.i have all the necessary skills they need and refuse me a travel visa.I have had many disagreements in the work place,as no common sense is used,and my ideas always stunk,,any advise, thank u for listerning

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      • Howzit Deon. As a saffa myself and experienced many difficult and frustrating times here. I can sympathise with you. The Indefinite resident sticker has to be converted to visa when you are travelling. I suggest seeing an immigration consultant for more advice or check out the forums on expatforums and the NZ immigration website. I wish South Africa didn’t have all the violent crime and corruption because I would move back tomorrow 🙂 All the best. Cheers

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  63. I completed my Bachelor of Fine Arts December 2014. So unfortunately it is a degree that limits my options for the future. But as far as culture goes there are so many more galleries and museums in the UK where i can get my foot in. Right now I am working in retail trying to raise money to get back to the UK. Ive emailed several galleries in NZ and have only had a couple of replies saying that there are no vacancies…
    Retail is slowly destroying me as well as being in NZ as it is…
    Hoping to save and get away within the next year

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  64. I moved from UK to NZ and left for Australia after 7 years in NZ. It was such a big change! After a couple of years in Australia, I got the courage to migrate to the USA and have been here ever since… I was in my 20’s and just finished a degree at Otago… I don’t miss the ‘culture’ of rugby 90% of the time…at this stage in my life, I would happily visit NZ for about 2-3 weeks for a holiday.. that’s about it!

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  65. I can appreciate what you are saying and going through. However, the economies in most western countries are not in good shape and I would have reservations moving anywhere.
    My experience in NZ was dreadful in terms of finding reasonable paid employment. I stayed for 18 months with my wife, child and reached critical mass then left.
    I have no regrets leaving NZ and moving to a country which allowed better opportunities. You cannot get ahead in NZ financially, the salaries do not stack up with the cost living and to establish a new home is rediculously expensive. I am also sad to see the way folks have been treated in Christchurch after the earthquakes. I believe it is becoming a third world country, the stats speak for themselves, child poverty is absolute terrible and a reflection on some of these arrogant politicians how couldn’t less.

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  66. Here is some sober truth from a successful, Kiwi returnee..whom is really now a full fledged foreigner in NZ!

    First..let me say I really enjoyed these above comments alot. So much truth.

    I am a “Kiwi” whom left here in the 80’s and just returned and after 2 years of in and out are thinking about Canada or the USA or England or if my wife can handle it..France!

    My background..I left in the 80’s in my early 20’s due to total frustration over the total lack of decent job prospects. I am now back after being financially successful overseas, leaving a CEO post of a small, but very successful international firm..I have returned and are finding it all very interesting on just how this place runs or rather does not run.

    Luckily housing is not an issue in the sense I jumped on the housing wagon before it jumped in several years ago and live in a good area and without any silly housing loans . However the rest of it has some major problems. These are first the lack of intelligent people you can converse with..except English, American or others from overseas.I also remembered that when I left in the 80’s my friend were all Japanese with almost no fellow “white” Kiwi friends..I now remember why..My parents exposed me to overseas trips to Europe when young and I was not into drunken house parties and hated rugby. I still hate the “kiwi” culture that has got worst in the sense of these crazy tattoos that look terrible and the gut renting “rugby” which I have always hated since a kid.

    So why did I come back..it was to do with being tired of Asia, needing a good break and loving boating, fishing and hiking..and a supportive, open minded, highly educated , beautiful wife by my side and a lovely daughter keen on the “nice , easy lifestyle of NZ”…but we are quickly rethinking!

    Yet despite the attraction moving back here for the great outdoors we have found it frustrating in many ways.

    One big issue is the lack of decent opportunities to share your business skills with people whom deserve to be shared with. 90% + of “kiwis” , including so called big company CEO’s are not well educated and not very intelligent. They also lack vision past looking into a beer bottle. They think small, low risk and are just not worth the effort to talk to, as their intellectual levels are so low. Oh “sh@t”..guess that was another good reason I left in the 80’s!

    Food sucks here. Its nearly double London prices for most items, even taking in account the forex rates and the quality is typically half as good. There is a lack of quality fruit..most is chill stored too long and overpriced..double or triple of M &S or even Mitsukoshi in Ginza, Fish is cr@p..smelly, badly presented, often thawed out and old ..and yes..you got it..3 times the price of Japan and of such low quality it would never be sold to humans in Japan..exception is fresh mussels.

    GST is crap in NZ..15% on everything..including food items. Its crazy and forces you to lose alot of disposable income on already overpriced items

    Housing is crazy..some of the worst quality and worlds highest prices..Auckland now…NZD 1M gets you a “sh+tbox” worst than a dump-pad small apartment in Asia. 4 Million gets you are more expensive “sh@tbox”landed house in my suburb..which is still a crafty old, crappy, uninsulated home.

    Tradesmen..well..lets say the truth..with few exceptions..very overpriced and rubbish quality period. Worst and most expensive in the world.

    Legal system..cr@p..small claims is a “kangaroo” court based on all claims to NZD 25K now and run by crooks and arbitrators whom have no legal background and disregard all legal points. Its a scam and pure BS..a disgrace!

    Now schools….terrible to say..at pre school level now and find the schooling at pre school here very low level.Its also unclean grounds in the sense of not good premises, dirty and the level of pre school teachers consists of burn’t out dropout ladies whom are brainless. There is no schooling..its just a “dump” for kids to be offloaded in the daytimes.

    People..sad to say…but back in my old ways..no Kiwi mates again..Kiwi’s here don’t have much to say..are boring and either only want to talk about Rugby or else have nothing to talk about. My mates are again all foreigners basically, save 1 or 2!

    Bludging in NZ is terrible..put out decent wine..yet they turn up with cheap s@it that you simply put to the side for your cooking wine..or worst turn up with cheap, crappy beer that is full of chemicals.

    The worst is the “Kiwi women”.

    My wife is highly educated,very polite , attractive and not a snob. Yet she so far has no Kiwi friends..the “women” in NZ unfortunately all seem “rude, crude, narrow minded and uneducated pigs ” to be polite…in other words not worth spending much time with unless your wife gets off on “trivial bs and stupid gossip..they seem even worst than the “kiwi” guys! The exception is foreign women whom tend to be our only female friends.

    Water..water in NZ must be filtered..its crazy in NZ, full of chemicals. Kiwi gardeners are idiots ..they spray everything with tons of chemicals and same goes for inside of their houses.

    Restaurants and coffee shops..generally over priced, no atmosphere and terrible food. A few exceptions are inner city areas..but once again limited options.

    Gasoline for cars is double any other country, roads are poorly maintained, travel accommodation is poor and options are limited.

    So many other complaints..the uneducated “yobbos” whom have stayed and are narrowed minded jerks, women whom lack basic manners and all seem to think dressing in a tracksuit or worst is going out..I can go on for hours…

    I will say one thing..If you are young and just educated..get outta there..there are no opportunities for young smart kids and companies in NZ are limiting, low level and not progressive..including big name foreign finance or trading houses there too. Upside is negative

    If returning or immigrating and not financially cashed up..do not come to NZ..the society is as it is..still much unchanged from my youth..simply because of the low level of savings in NZ, poor job prospects, low salaries, extreme costs, poor services ..and only one good good reason to be there is the outdoors..except outdoor sports such as fishing, sailing, hiking..whatever floats your boat..NZ is terrible!

    I believe we will be here a couple of years until the “outdoors” runs out and then its likely in UK or USA or France for us after that!

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    • very interesting writeup. I share you views as well. Also married to foreigner and we find the local kiwi ‘culture’ too different, basic and narrow minded. Housing is a rip off and the quality of homes are shoddy and shocking. Being in our late 20’s and travelled extensively, we believe that in order to save our sanity we need to move on from Auckland 🙂

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      • Hi Dave..thanks for the feedback..I am in my forties so money side no issue..earned that outside NZ..If in your 20’s..Yes ..do not wait..as time is money as they say and its easy to make alot more overseas when you are in your 20’s and 30’s than NZ. My old friends I meet here whom didn’t leave all become jealous and financially screwed..their lives sucked in teh eighties and are worst now..cannot even communicate or meet them..our lives have changed so much..they are bitter, mean , very jealous Kiwi’s and its sad to see how they failed staying. A vicious cycle!

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        • Thanks. We are looking at heading over to Aus or maybe the USA. Not keen on the cold weather so there are not many options left besides those two 🙂

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          • Makes sense Dave..unless you have an inside angle or mega rich relatives propping you via a firm they own ..then in NZ it sucks business wise. I find even the heads of big banks, financial institutions and big 4 accounting firms in NZ all headed up by similar minded, incapable, inside old boys and mickey mouse directors..all the way to the top. A closed “kiwi” old boys shop and most of them could not swing a similar job outside of NZ..always being that way in NZ..if in with the top 1% on the inside families its easy..otherwise no way. As for the other areas in NZ like farming..OMG..so much a corrupt system..built on same old families owning for years and always having the government in their pockets too..full of blockheads and idiots raking it in at the expense of corruption and lies to Kiwis..Fonterra at top of it is the worst. NZ you pay twice the price of the same milk in Asia..a pure NZ scam again. Butter in NZ..tastes crap..the list goes on and on. Dave–Enjoy the fishing, the hiking, the outdoor sports..then get out..that makes the most sense. Don’t waste your prime business years there or you will wake up, 50 years old, not financially well off, pissed off and stuck in a rut..also if have children..you want them in a decent system from intermediate or high school on at worst case
            otherwise they end being screwed too if they want to go further in life and into real universities..which open up global opportunities, unlike Kiwi Universities which rank so poorly globally and are so far behind generally speaking

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          • I would go back to South Africa asap, but violent crime and corruption is a major problem there. One of the reasons we left SA was because of the crime. Compared to SA, NZ and Aus are much safer. Hopefully things in SA will turn around for the better, but i doubt it. Looks to me like it is heading the way of Zimbabwe which is a real shame. Thanks for the feedback.

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          • interesting you say that. my young sons friends family moved back to SA – father works in johannesburg during the week and they live in heidelburg. their theory is once you get your head around security smarts the lifestyle is incomparable. they were so miserable aft 18 mos they left behind a leaky parnell house they had no chance of selling after a neighbour opened a brothel in theirs (auckland zoning allowed it!!!).

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          • South Africans are by far the most materialistic bunch out there. So i can see why they left. Johannesburg is an absolute dump. Lived and worked there in 2002 crime was rampant and corruption is even worse now. Johannesburg and the people that live there(the fortunate ones that have a bit of wealth) are pretentious and arrogant. Most people though that live in Joburg are desperate for work and poverty is everywhere. It is possibly though to bury your head in the sand and live in denial like most wealth South Africans do…

            By the way, i am South African myself, but i have lived in many different countries. There some really awesome people that live in SA but the vast majority are very ‘different’…

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    • I am sorry to hear about your travails. I am an American who lived for nearly three years in New Zealand before escaping Retardicon 6 for Switzerland. Aside from meeting my Swiss/Kiwi wife and seeing some nice scenery that I could just have enjoyed during a trip or seen elsewhere, the place was a complete waste.

      The level of analphabetism and low culture were appalling. I find it amusing how some of my wife’s Kiwi relatives give silly junk gifts such as a rope with Kiwi birds on it that one uses as a badge to wear around one’s neck and they think they have done some massive favour. Most of the people there are so stupid that they do not know what they do not know.

      If scenery and the outdoors are important, there are some very nice places in the Western US and Canada with good economic prospect and outstanding recreation. Leaving New Zealand the second time is probably the best thing for you and your family.

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  67. I think I’m going to be adding to your migrant tales in a few months (please God). I’ve been here 25 years and this isn’t the place I came to. And boy do I have some stories – I just can’t share now because I would be prosecuted by 2 corrupt and crap organisations here. OMG – I am counting the days before I can get back to the UK.

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  68. I might add that there are eerie parallels with leaving a long-term abusive relationship – you don’t quite realise just how bad things are until you make the decision to leave. Then you take a step back, scratch your head in wonder, and wonder why the #%ck you stayed so long.

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  69. lol. accurate assessment!

    one of the wierd things about migs in nz was the level of denial – also v abusive relationship in style – the more unhappy they were the more they tended to defend problems with easy solutions. some, stuck there with leaky houses etc, i understood – it was those with options i couldnt. and the denialists can be such fckrs to intereact with. misery looooves company so when you step outa line…

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    • Well – I have even more stuff heaped on my head in this rather bizarro-land. BTW whoever came up with Retardicon 6; I congratulate that man/woman. Not one but 4 separate incidents of institutional bullying in the space of one week. I wouldn’t mind, but I have a thoracic aortic aneurysm (as my boss well knows), so this latest campaign quite literally might kill me (emotional distress is the number one reason for rupture). What is even sadder, is that this person is not a Kiwi, but Irish! I think she hates it here, but has no power in her own life so practices the darkest form of passive-aggressive BS on the planet. I am really at the end of my tether. I’m trying to tell myself it doesn’t matter in the end. I’m going home as soon as I can – and I don’t need a bloody reference from the bitch. But when your boss makes up “anonymous” complaints about you and demands you respond in writing, before the “disciplinary meeting” about events you cannot possibly respond to, because you don’t know who made them, when, etc., how can you possibly defend yourself? It does get to a point where you thing “Is this really happening?” and “Am I crazy?”

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      • I dealt with institutional bullying at my last job, before I succumbed to psychotic rage that built up over the weeks I was being discriminated and verbally abused against, and unleashed it onto the abuser who then went crying to higher management, blaming everything on me and playing the victim. Despite her being the revolting, insidious, antagonist and masterminding the misery she felt was acceptable to project on to others.

        By that point, as mentioned in another post of mine, I’d lost the will to live and descended into a downward spiral of brain crushing depression that was only temporarily relieved by whiskey and prescribed benzodiazepines. The thought of even bothering to find other employment seemed a pointless, detrimental exercise. And these are not isolated cases either. This is prevalent in most work places in NZ. The bullying, the discrimination, the cronyism, the nepotism, the bullshit. The never ending bullshit.

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        • NZ is at the point, and has been since I don’t know when, that it needs a shelter of some sort for this very thing. In Singapore there’s one for OFWs who are abused, a place they can go to escape and get help. If I ever get enough money (which probably won’t happen unless I win the lottery) I would start such a place. I dont know if we have a similar system but if we do it ain’t working.

          What is the answer to all this BS? I have no idea.
          What I do know that in all my exp the abusers keep their coward mouths shut when there is a kiwi supporter beside the abused foreigner.

          By the way sorry for the continued use of the word ‘foreigner’ if that’s bothering anyone. I don’t like it in a sense, as I usually here it used in the negative, but it’s just to differentiate between the groups I’m talking about.

          Havent seen any recent posts from you Nebula, then again I haven’t been around much lately myself. How are you doing?

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          • Hey Shan, I wish I could say things were ‘ok’ at the moment but they are getting worse and worse, but thank you for asking. How about yourself?

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  70. ” Most of the people there are so stupid that they do not know what they do not know.”
    Yup, what he said. And when you try and tell them of what else is out there, you get the bash, they don’t want to know.

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  71. Nobody should put up with these physcopathic tendencies. Take detailed notes, record conversations and then report this individual to the relevant authorities.

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    • Unfortunately the law is such that you cannot record such things without the other party’s express permission. This leaves you unprotected. Sorry.

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      • Last time I checked, this was not the case. You ARE permitted to record any conversation that YOU are PART OF. You don’t even have to inform other parties to the conversation, It is only illegal to record conversations where you are a third-party and NOT part of the conversation.

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      • Not true at all. You can use tape recordings in NZ.
        But: YOU NEED TO HAVE A TRANSCRIPTION of the recording
        AND
        YOU NEED TO HIGHLIGHT which parts of the recording support your case.

        You will also be required to provide that transcript to the people you are advocating against, ahead of time.
        (I did that in a tribunal hearing for that guy who owed me money … and he turned up for the hearings once with his grandmother and once with his mother as a “support person” – and couldn’t rebut my notes. Pretty staunch!)

        Hopefully this helps a lot of other people get rid of clowns in their life, clowns belong in a circus not in offices or workplaces.

        Ref: http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/got-it-tape-lessons-using-covert-recordings-weekend-review-gb-138034

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    • Problem is: when you hold them accountable, you are labled “trouble maker”. I know, I’ve been there. And nothing gets done, you are the bad guy [even though you are in the right, according to the “relevant authorities”. You get “black listed” for holding them accountable.

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      • I’ve been labelled a “trouble maker” in a few NZ “businesses”. I just happen to stand up and call it when things are wrong.

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  72. People in New Zealand these days especially outside of the city are really bitter and scummy they have no respect. They blackmail and libel on other people but they don’t have any real respect they only have fake “Southern Hospitality” derealization and lack of real friends is severeside effect of being in such a limited environment with cruel people.

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  73. Although most of these comments seem to me to have some truth to them, they do read as a sort of feeding frenzy of negativity. As a NZer who spent quite a few years out of the country in the ‘States and Asia I can relate to much of what is said, but would point out there is more to any country than just the negative aspects. In truth, when we returned to be closer to family, we almost got back on a plane, such was the adjustment shock. It took a good three years to decide to stay on, and not taking up the opportunity of a green card in the ‘States was a close run decision. If not for wanting stability for the children, we would have gone.

    It does makes me wince to read such scathing opinions, even if the sample is clearly weighted to those who have found NZ not to their liking. But I must admit my impression of New Zealand upon return was of a people who could be … smug, self-congratulatory, materialistic, narrow minded, insular, passive-aggressive, and believers in the myths of the NZ bloke to list a few aspects… And with quite a few of the worst behaviours lifted from the worst of Hollywood pap, which people here do not seem to understand does not represent real America for the most part. I blame cable TV for that!

    The comments on low culture and marginalisation of anyone a bit different or eccentric also do ring true, although why anyone would expect high culture at what is essentially a settler country located at the end of the earth is beyond me! Education may well not be at the levels of the UK or other parts of Europe, however I do not think it is quite so backward as many have suggested; at least not in terms of the better schools. In terms of university education I studied at masters level in the UK, and while I found the expected standards to be quite exacting, I certainly did not feel out of place or struggle to perform well. I would say that on the average the level is above that of the ‘States anyway. They may have some outstanding schools, however there is a long tail of extremely poor educational achievement too. Our children have gone to the some good schools in Wellington that encourage and support high achievement in academics, arts, sports, so perhaps I am seeing this through rose coloured glasses.

    In any case, I would encourage anyone thinking of immigrate to New Zealand to read these posts, as well as feedback from others who have found a life here that they feel positively about. I am sure there are a few with a more positive or at least nuanced perspective…

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    • I can relate to much of what is said, but would point out there is more to any country than just the negative aspects.

      The point being that New Zealand is often marketed to prospective migrants as if those negatives don’t exist. Perversely, its deliberately and falsely portrayed as a country that’s free from many of the ‘negatives’ that cause people to migrate in the first place. One of our readers once said “too many people come here with what they want the place to be and not how it really is“ That vulnerability has been exploited since the 1840s and has continued to the present day.

      Please read the Welcome Page to understand why this site exists, and why its going from strength to strength since it was launched in 2009.

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    • The reason why a site such as this exists is that there are not many places where the actual “on the ground” version of SOME migrants experiences can be viewed. Most of the “migrant sites” give a highly stylised and slanted view and are not much in the way of providing any form of divergent opinion. In fact, most of the “migrant sites” edit, censor, and delete any sort of dissent. That being the case, where would you turn to to receive any kind of “other” opinion relayed?
      I find it interesting that you have found many of the same issues present and there is significant “adjustment shock”. Most migrants [not returning Kiwis] do not have the advantage of family and friends to fall back on. Nor do they have a “muscle memory” of having lived in NZ prior which will help them to get back in the swing of things. Generally, most migrants come to find things vastly different than as advertised, no support, and a very unreceptive atmosphere to any that mention how difficult the “adjustment shock” is. This is a place where similar experience can be sympathetically expounded upon.
      Not all of NZ is bad. But this is one of the few places that talking about the not so good parts is tolerated.

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      • good reply. most people are unaware the nz govt shuts down many personal blogs etc that provide this kind of info. no idea how this scrapes through.

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  74. I think one issue is the desperately slow pace of change in NZ.

    I “emigrated” there 2002-2003. I moved back to the UK. I “emigrated” there again in 2013. This time I only lasted 6 weeks.

    It was the same shoddy looking cans of Watties’ beans on the shelves at PaknSave. Nothing had changed…. except that things cost twice as much, relative to both wages and the exchange rate.

    If you really love the outdoors, these things may not matter though.

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  75. One of the issues is that NZ does not have many trendy bars or coffeeshops. Most coffee shops with their flat whites in NZ are boring..and there are few goo ones with enough atmosphere that you want to hang around long there. Canada is nice..much more fun in winter, despite snow..Houses are built for weather changes too. A winter in NZ is terrible..nothing to do and neighbours that are anti social and asleep by 9pm..the reason is that local kiwis are poorly paid and really don’t have any spare money..its been a problem forever in NZ. Until they at least double the population NZ will not get better. On reason Canada is better is simply population and reasonable salaries enabling people to enjoy life past sitting at home.

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  76. Christchurch SUCKS! I could very easily write 1000 pages about what a crap hole Christchurch (CHC) is, but I’ll settle for a few paragraphs here. In a word it should be called “the Miserable City”. I’m not ready to write New Zealand off as a country yet, but definitely CHC. If you’re having the slightest thought of moving here…DON’T!!! Outer Mongolia might be a better choice.

    I moved my family here (from Hawaii of all places) in 2013. We wanted to experience something different (did we ever get our wish) and we weren’t happy (so we thought) in Hawaii. Let me detail some of the issues we’ve experienced…(keep in mind this pertains to CHC only)

    Weather: As another commenter said, it’s not entirely fair to blame a place for something so far beyond it’s control. That said, the weather in CHC is truly miserable. Winter is long, damp, windy, gray, and cold; summer is too short and can be a milder version of winter. Any time there is a stretch of decent weather it draws in several weeks of nasty weather, so even when it’s nice out you have to get ready for the crap on the way. You never leave the house without your coat because as soon as a cloud rolls in it’s cold and windy. If you just think miserable almost all the time you have a pretty good estimate of CHC’s weather.

    People: OMG! The rudest, most insolent, sullen, abrasive, unenlightened, impatient a-holes I’ve ever met. They make New Yorkers look like angels. Most are completely self-absorbed and only interested in sport (mostly rugby, but also soccer and cricket) and getting drunk. No one smiles. They walk around with this morose look on their faces as if their child was just diagnosed with a terminal illness. They are completely intolerant of anything that doesn’t fit the kiwi mold. Absolutely the worst road-ragers ever. They are uncouth, crude, and vulgar people, i.e. obese, often barefoot, stupid tattoos, hair every color of the rainbow, trailer trash clothing, and no more class than a cockroach…many far less. Overall like rural Appalachia with an accent. (it’s a rather small point, but as previously mentioned, NZer’s don’t rinse the soap off when washing their dishes. It’s as if they’ve developed a taste for soap scum…Gross!!!…Hint: do your own dishes).

    Economy/cost of living: Out of touch! Everything is overpriced and no one gives it a second thought. Food, housing, fuel, the list never ends. They just shrug and pay up…what lemmings. Total money obsessed as well. Everything here is valued in terms of cost…and I mean EVERYTHING! You have to pay for everything…they charge for ketchup packets. It’s as if the goal is to see who can screw each other out of a dollar quicker. I think they’d sell their children for the right price. It’s just disgusting!

    Other: Restaurants, forget it, overpriced crappy food. Electricity costs: our bills in the winter are over $1000/month and that’s just to keep a few rooms above 60 degrees F. Music/art scene: virtually non-existent…plenty of local talent, but world class acts are rare. Entertainment here = sports/getting drunk. There is a casino, but it’s the equivalent of a Nevada border casino, nothing to write home about. Beaches: yes, but freezing even in the middle of summer…if you like swimming in ice water you’ll love it.

    Bright side: CHC has good water, no need to filter or buy bottled water…you can drink straight out of the tap…for now. Not much violent crime…an assault now and then, a shooting is rare, and hardly ever a murder. Can’t think of much else.

    Summary: CHC is a dump. DO NOT move here unless you ready to endure all the above and probably lots more that I’ve neglected to mention. Come here for a visit in the middle of winter to check it out (June-Aug) as it will be the worst of the worst. If you’re a glutton for punishment then you might just love it here. Otherwise do yourself a huge favor and avoid this place like the plague.

    (I will be moving out of CHC in Dec 2106 and I hope to never return!)

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    • hey Ron, thnx for your comment. i had similar experience and i can’t add more of what you said. I left 2 yrs ago and got a job in Aussie and never ever want to return back to this shit hole. i think it is not just ch. ch. it is the whole bloody country. Good with your move try to get out of this rotten place ASAP. all the best

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    • #You have to pay for everything…they charge for ketchup packets. It’s as if the goal is to see who can screw each other out of a dollar quicker. I think they’d sell their children for the right price. It’s just disgusting!
      …this is so true! …and I’m a 4th generation NZer

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  77. After having lived here for some ten years I do believe Iv given it a fair go, I have given myself time to accept and adjust to the different cultural ways and attitudes here in New Zealand having lived most of my adult life in the UK. I must say I have travelled and stayed for some time in other countries, including the U.S , Canada , Germany both East and West. I have travelled through Asia on many occasions, with this in mind I will now say this is possibly one of the worst placed I have lived in respect to attitude, everywhere it seems its a shrug of the shoulders and its that ” she’ll be alright” attitude when actually its not! they seem to have no idea of the importance of getting things done properly, and when a problem does arise never want to shoulder responsibility and put things right, indeed they may have the best rugby team in the world with out a doubt, and there are some pretty tough characters around, but where it come to growing some balls and saying what is right and what should to be done in the government at both local and national level they are like sheep, almost too frightened to say anything. No they are not a nation of complainers, but if you don’t complain nothing will ever change, and therefore improve
    For instance at this present time the majority of everyone here as far as I’m aware does not wish to change our currant National flag but has allowed this flag debate to go on and on, at the same time we are being told that “Kiwis” ( the people of NZ) are dying because they have no real ambulance service here, ( The ambulance service here is not government funded , its a charity) there is shortage of properly equipped vehicles and untrained staff , but instead of any solidarity amongst the people protesting to the government not to waste another 40 million NZD on an un-necessarily idea and put the money to better use, like the failing healthcare or donating to the ambulance service everyone shrugs their shoulders and say “Oh well, she’ll be right” I could write pages of some of the crazy things that go on here in NZ, but there’s really no point, they will never change, its wore my down so much now Iv sold my house, packed up my business and I’m off in early 2016, Il be sorry to leave the good friends I have made here, but good reddens to a system that can only be described as one of the most pathetic for a developed country I have ever lived in, good luck to everyone whom is here in NZ, I hope for the working guy in the street things will improve tenfold. .

    Like

    • Great point about the abysmal health system. The ambulance service is run by St Johns, a charitable organisation, but you have to PAY for every call out.

      The following charges apply if you are:

      a citizen or permanent resident of NZ
      a work visa holder eligible to be in NZ for two years or more
      from the Cook Islands, Niue or Tokelau
      a UK citizen normally living in the UK and visiting NZ.
      If you are visiting from overseas and your situation does not match
      any of those listed please see section c.

      cost-$88….

      See further reading at

      http://www.stjohn.org.nz/Global/Images/Part%20Charges/STJ_Patient%20Part%20Charges%20Brochure_DLE_March14_email.pdf

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      • re. ambulance charges

        to be fair you now pay many places. if i recall in toronto i paid $150 10 years ago for daughters post-gymnastics haul to sick kids emerg and that was only a 15 min walk from our house.

        the thing unusual about nz is the lack of any organised provision. its bizarre. surf lifesaving is properly organised, as is the emergency call out for (tourists) lost hikers.

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        • Healthcare is free in the UK where im from, as we have the NHS-National Health Service. When I had to pay for an ambulance in NZ I was gobsmacked when they sent me a bill for $88. I never paid it. Then they sent a debt collector after me, Baycorp, so I ignored them too. Never heard from them since.

          I think I wouldn’t mind as much paying in Toronto Canada because as least I’d be living in a civilised country with lots to do and decent people.

          NZ can go spit.

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          • Exactly. An emergency service, run by VOLUNTEERS ffs. What a joke NZ is. Ambulance services are just as important as the police, yet the police aren’t a volunteer service. Gee, I wonder why?

            Like

          • The UK and Australia don’t charge for emergency ambulances.

            The UK’s paramedics need to complete a university degree in paramedic science or get on to a student paramedic course at an ambulance service trust. The starting salary for a qualified paramedic is about £21,690.

            Australia is moving towards all its paramedics being degree qualified and there are about 20 different courses on offer across the country. The starting salary there is about AU$58,694 The state of Victoria has 4 separate bachelor qualifications specifically for Paramedicine, that’s 3 more than the whole of New Zealand.

            In New Zealand there is one university degree: AUT’s Bachelor of Health Science with a Paramedicine major. Routes into the profession are either through that degree or by volunteering with St Johns and working your way up.

            HTH.

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          • There are just way too many important services that can only function with volunteers because the government isn’t interested in spending a cent. Just insanity.

            Like

          • Yes the NHS is a free service and the concept of free healthcare for the population is a good one. but working in the NHS I can see how poorly run and mismanaged it is. Personally, I would rather pay for a doctors appointment and get it that morning than not pay and have to wait 2 weeks (when normally after 2 weeks the problem doesnt persist any longer!) You’re absolutely right though, just because something is not performing well overseas doesn’t mean we should tolerate it in New Zealand. I believe the ambulance service is centrally funded (to some extent) but yes it is unfortunate to receive a bill for calling one in an emergency! Better safe than sorry.

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          • It is poorly run and completely understaffed in several cities now because of the amount of people who have entered the country. Anyone from the UK knows exactly what I’m talking about. I’d still take my chances tho over shitty NZ.

            The point is, you pay for it in New Zealand and get a completely shit experience and sub zero quality. Paramedics who have bruised the hell out of my arm because they didn’t know how to put an IV in properly and took forever to do it. I’ve also noticed they walk casually to a person needing emergency help like they are taking a walk in the park. HELLO!!!! That person is not breathing!!! Time is of the essence!!! Absolute retards.

            It’s like the whole country is autistic or on smack, communication is warped and the lack of care and attention to basic detail is appalling.

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          • How can you all compare NZ(Less than 2 million) to UK (30 million tax payers? Get real folks. how many people pay tax in NZ and compare it with the UK. Take some responsibility we do not want to pay tax and we want everything for free. healthcare, education, great roads and infrastructure. There is no such thing as free! ( free= paid by many and used by a few) Yes the government make mistakes and does waste money but so does the UK, Europe and the US. I call is a 2nd world country sure it is not perfect but it much much better than Europe or US at the moment. It is also a free country so leave if you are not happy especially if $88 is to much to pay for an ambulance. It prevents people from using it as a free taxi (as they do in other countries!)

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          • We ‘compare’ it because NZ claims to be everything it is not, coaxing migrants to a bullshit country that baits people in with outright lies and propaganda then screws them over. That’s why.

            Could you sound anymore of a New Zealand apologist?

            Liked by 1 person

          • Please could you give an example of countries where an ambulance is used as a free taxi, thank you.

            Surely you are aware that New Zealand’s tax take as a percentage of GDP is only marginally less than the EC as a whole (34.5 versus 35.7%), so using the small population excuse doesn’t hold water. Indeed, Luxembourg has a population of only 537,039 and a 36.5% tax take, yet it manages to have a well developed social infrastructure that is decades ahead of New Zealand’s. Luxembourg is a developed country, with an advanced economy and the world’s highest GDP (PPP) per capita, according to the United Nations in 2014.

            Maybe if the New Zealand government introduced a capital gains tax and stamp duty it could raise a bit more revenue? It could also help to cool the housing market and speculative investment. You don’t seem overly concerned about that, but are content to pay $88 for an ambulance.

            Maybe it’s time to give up the Kool-Aid and start thinking critically.

            Like

          • Sometimes the most intelligent act is to “shut up”, trust me Knor NZ teaches it very well.

            IRD sucked out 33% of my salary including the same percentage on my bonus – FYI there was no contribution from IRD whereas I slogged my ass for 16 continuous months. Guess what…the rest of my tax money was spent to airlift some idiot who was driving rash on a narrow single lane motorway in some remote corner, rehabilitate criminals (both under and above 18s), run the prisons and the list goes on & on.

            A friend of mine was diagnosed with a rare kind of brain malfunction while in UK, he was treated for 5-6 months without paying a single penny. Moreso he worked for another 5 years since initial diagnosis and made sure he was also contributing towards NHS. Basically I’d back NHS any day compared to the shitty GP system (i.e. 100 pack paracetamol prescribed by the GP for any thing – literally).

            The proportion of miscreants found in NZ is way more than any 3rd world country.

            Liked by 1 person

  78. very bad country had a terrible experience. no jobs, no good health system, everything is overpriced, no insulation for houses, etc. don’t come to NZ but the most important thing don’t waste your money and try to apply for uni. in NZ you can get your degree in a better country with almost the same amount of money you will spend on NZ uni. thnx

    Like

  79. Final Update, I posted here a while ago.Background… I have been back and forward between UK and NZ since 2010. In 2012 I got my (Skilled Migrant) Residency Visa plus an additional 12 month extension.
    I am leaving in a few days to return to the UK for what will now be last time as my Visa Travel Conditions have now expired.
    I will miss NZ that is for sure, but Auckland is now a rich man’s playground.
    Not sure Weather is really a plus point ?? (The radiation levels are a bit scary lol ! and there are bad winters here too…..and don’t mention humidity !!!!!!!! agghhhhh ! )
    I have to say I got on with pretty much everyone I met over the years and found the average kiwi to be very amiable, I really got on very well at a social level
    However nearly impossible to get a job in Auckland, always one caveat or another, had to speak Mandarin, had to have a degree from a NZ University, only graduates wanted yada yada yada, and some of the salaries were pathetic ($38K anyone !!! although I did get ONE decent contract at $110k pro rata once)
    What really bugged me was you never even got any response/rejection…..even jobs that I had extensive experience in (18 years in IT)…I just felt my CV was deleted as soon as they saw UK University !?!
    Houses…say no more everyone knows the la la land that is AKL property market (Stayed in one of the ahem “period” houses…had to leave after a few days due to eye and throat infection….black mould on walls etc)
    Service….this is a BIG fail in NZ…restaurants/shops etc the service is woeful, example girl in bar give me WRONG drink, I told her that is not what I ordered….a shrug of shoulders and she says its still cider….she looked at me like I sprouted 2 heads….had to forcefully insist I get the correct one after having to get bar manager involved……(I personally wouldn’t mind but the person it was for hated Issacs cider)
    In restaurant….pot of Tea..no milk…when I politely asked for some…. 2 minutes later a very cross waitress came over with a crazy look in her eyes and literally slammed a jug of milk on the table !
    This was repeated over and over and over….sorry if I sound like nitpicking….but a smile and a bit of politeness go a long way and cost nothing !
    Now my scariest thing….DRIVING….I have covered all of NZ over the years right down to slope point, and had seen plenty of bad driving along the way….but this year it seemed so much worse….probably due to the fact that a lorry cut a corner at speed where I was waiting to cross…massive bang as the 40ft trailer hit and rode along the PAVEMENT where I was standing almost hitting me….really scared the crap out of me…happened so fast…add to that something like 200 accidents in 24hours on boxing day :O
    In parnell on day after boxing day….absolutely drunk girl came out of off licence with wine…staggering all over the road…she turned the corner and got into her car…..(also of note was ALL the police cars were at the station at the bottom of parnell rise…so I assume they take they hols too and none are out on patrol?)
    But lets be fair, EVERY country in the world has its warts and problems, for me I think the perfect balance is 6 week holiday in december/jan…best of both worlds ?
    I think people come here on holiday and fall in love with the place…then they think they can live the dream……………..well If you have several million in the bank, yes you can…..but for most like me…the reality is a far cry from what you envisaged !
    Sorry for the long post but wanted to share my experiences and wish everyone the best of luck in whatever path they choose 🙂

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  80. I’m sorry Kiwi “New Zealand” doesn’t have a culture, Well of Course there’s Maori Culture,Pacific Island, Asian+of various types,Middle Eastern,and many others. But when it comes to Your standard Anglo Saxon “Kiwi” then as a whole there really is No culture. French have culture,Spanish, Italian,Indian,Tibetan, Russian,Maori,Even American & pretty much everyone in The World but Majority of Anglo Saxon Kiwis & Aussies….sorry Yeaaaah Naaah She’ll be right, Its jus da way it us. “You don’t know Lucky we are Maaaaate!!!!!!!!!!!!” “You don’t know how lucky we are”!!!!!??????!!!!!!?????? LOL

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    • Too true! It was cringeworthy going through both Wellington and Auckland airports and seeing how LOTR has been claimed by NZ in lieu of any proper homegrown culture.
      Really? Tolkien was English – OK ?!!

      And yes, Peter Jackson is clever but even the ersatz Maoriana of old was more representative of New Zealand than Gollum or the Dwarves.

      Like

  81. New Zealand is a shithole and my family has been here for 4 generations. Drug taking is rampant and a huge issue with the young who are entitled and nasty; the social welfare system is being abused unbelieveably and has been by generations in the same families who have relatives who work there and who know how to work the system;
    Children are abused at an alarming rate (the highest in the world) and in the ghetto suburbs of all cities, major and minor, children are exposed to their parents drug taking and often go to school without breakfast or lunch, thus schools are providing food to prevent them from starvation and malnutrition;
    The housing is appalling californian bungalo type dwellings built from the same blueprint, with the ghetto suburbs being full of this 50 year old plus, substandard (in dire need of renovation) government housing – and every suburb houses its share of P Labs (meth).
    Overseas students are ripped off by unscrupulous tertiary providers; tourists take their life in their hands coming to New Zealand.particularly in the country areas of the far north of the North Island and in remote areas of the South Island… the list goes on… but I live here and although I have a good job, the long hours for an average renumeration by international standards are a killer;
    The cost of living is extremely high and is rapidly rising – food, house prices (owning a house is out of the question for most younger New Zealanders these days who are often saddled with student fees debt which can be exorbitant – plus education standards at tertiary level are substandard)
    New Zealand is a shithole…

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  82. Fascinating discussion. Should be made more prominent to help others before they burn their fingers here. My wife and I and our two children came here about four years ago as keen relatively highly skilled professionals— she as a trained engineer and I am in a sought after profession with two post graduate university degrees, all recognised here and on the immigration skills shortage list. After failing to get a job, with her forced to look after the children and worried about dwindling funds my partner and I started what can by all measures be called a very successful business from scratch. We ambitiously and keenly elected to secure an income and then purchase a property.
    Since then we are constantly amazed at all the avenues invented here to drain money from small businesses ( I guess that is what they mean by Kiwi ingenuity) and the general cost of living. We had to further discover that property prices had gone up by around $200 000 where we now live. Currently we find ourselves in an area with substandard schools and a growing number of ‘nitwits’ driving fancy new cars with short tempers. Working long hours we go home to an overpriced rental where our privacy and busy Iives are persistently interrupted by seemingly hurried and impatient estate agents employed by greedy feckless stay at home landlords—a spinoff of the current boom times for greedy property developers and investors.
    We are also thinking of leaving this lovely country we would have liked to call home now. The problem here is simple:
    Deficiencies:
    Culture and open mindedness – too few thinkers , scientists, artists , sensible young people, philosophers and idea makers and just happy content people in general. A sensible government. Affordable ‘liveable’ housing.
    Too much and too many:
    Corruption- Living here really makes one wonder who pays whom to be ranked high on the lifestyle and corruption free list?
    Profiteers, bankers, ‘old boys club members’, accountants, estate agents, rule makers and rules for small business (a growing need for legal services is generally a sign of a drop in moral standards of a society).
    Drugs addicts, drunks.
    Rugby players.
    Homeless people for such a small country.
    Ripoff artists.
    Yes we may be leaving soon also…

    Like

  83. Hi all. Thanks for your post. I currently live in Zimbabwe, I work for one of the big 4 accounting firms and have opportunities to work for the same firm in either Auckland or Johannesburg, South Africa. What would you recommend?

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  84. Whoever is the grub that said “I hate these negative things being said about MY beautiful country”. Sorry but you don’t own New Zealand. These posts are mostly spot on. Living in new Zealand feels like you are isolated from all the fun and energy that is happening elsewhere in the world. Scenery is beautiful, but so what. There are heaps of beautiful spots all over the world. People in New Zealand tend to be negative, and it creates a miserable feeling living amongst a bunch of sad faces. I believe people are miserable here due to a huge cost of living, and super low wages in comparison to the ridiculous cost of living. … these financial issues people face lead to drug use, crime and suicide… In which new zealand is slowly creeping up these statistics every year. .. please consider long and hard before you move here

    Liked by 1 person

  85. I’ve never been to NZ but from what i can tell, the weather looks crap. No matter what you may have heard, the weather is also crap in SA. With the exception of the Cape with its wondeful mediterranean climate, the rest of the country gets bitterly cold in winter (colder than most mediterranean countries), while summers are very very wet and miserable. Who ever coined the term: sunny SA, was either from England or Sweden or somewhere close, or was probably high on something.

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  86. The weather is wonderful, warm and equable, been living there off and on for 12 years. It’s a part of the planet which is relatively unspoilt and has plenty of space, the people are really friendly. Try driving in the UK with millions of cars polluting the roads, radio programme about teenage depression, overcrowded schools and you will start to see the huge benefits of living in a country (NZ) with buckets of common sense, a generally positive attitude. Look again, NZ is a heaven on earth, I really believe that.

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    • Why is it that people who love NZ the most are the ones that don’t live there? You obviously haven’t been back to NZ for some time otherwise you’d know about the problems the country has with depression, youth suicide, child poverty, low standards of education, racism, poor housing, and fuel poverty.

      Your IP address puts you in rural Blandford Forum, UK. Please don’t troll, or try to hawk kool-aid here.

      Like

    • It’s interesting to read what you write now in comparison to what you’ve said before:

      Hi there, it was my dream to move to NZ after all the over-crowdedness of UK (and cold, dreary weather). I still think it has some fantastic aspects. Firstly, when travelling around in 1999/2000, Invercargill struck me as the WORST place – end of earth, really cold, and de-populated – why on earth did your parents choose that place. I decided to go to the centre of it all, near Wellington, Kapiti coast to be exact and was not disappointed. There you can access culture, there’s alot of what is interesting in UK in miniature – its own literary festival, garden open days, local artists opening, lovely beaches, gorgeous international cafes – in short, an exceptionally wonderful lifestyle. Hawkes Bay is another out of the way place. I think to enjoy NZ if you come from a multi-cultural place like UK (and UK varies hugely too!!!) you must go to within striking distance of Wellington or Nelson, maybe even some other cities like New Plymouth but definitely not to Invercargill. I feel so sorry that you were plunged into a narrow minded school at the age of 15, just when you were settled in UK. That was awful, and probably coloured your idea of NZ really negatively. For me, the problems came with education system, and I’ve moved my son over here aged almost 9, he simply wasn’t learning anything much at all, the schools seemed devoid of content up to year 9 or so, just the odd project very occasionally. He’s having such a rich education over here in UK in comparison, but we still both miss the lovely relaxed pace of NZ, the uncrowded roads, the sunny weather, the friendliness of friends we met, the easiness of it all and so much more – including all the freedom he had to cycle along river paths, along wide pavements, down to the local tennis courts – I hardly ever see a child on a bike in UK. What I’m trying to say is, I think your parents chose the worst NZ had to offer and feel sorry for you. Before you leave, why not stop off and have a few days in Nelson or Wellington, you may see another side of it, stop off on Kapiti Coast. I don’t think it’s all as bad as you now think….

      Like

    • Oh, it’s that familiar chestnut again “We must raise the standards of education”
      Well, this is how you do it, assuming your lecturers have integrity in awarding marks
      (Disclaimer: I did a B.Sc in New Zealand, and they do have integrity in that faculty … you can tell from the failure rates – 90% of the people going in … did not graduate)

      1. Breed with those who are demonstrably more educated, have integrity, and are capable of doing what they’re qualified for.
      Reason: Intelligence is genetic, for the same reason a person with fetal alcohol syndrome due to a sozzled mother won’t be the next Einstein. Also, psychopathy and narcissistic personality disorder is genetic too – hence why the requirement for integrity above. If you’re not racist or anti-miscegenation there is an easy way to get that done.
      Downside: mating with the people with social sciences could be dodgy, having kids with someone who has a Master’s from a thesis about the portrayal of German water nymphs will be a disaster for a technologically dependent world. Also, expect the kid, or even you or your partner to get bullied. People have a lot of “tolerance” for movie stars, politicians and the rich to make their own partner choices, but not very much for everyday citizens.

      2. With the complicity of the universities, say those from community X should be marked more leniently while everyone else, but especially immigrants get marked more harshly.
      Reason: You want to preserve your “culture” and “laid back lifestyle” … but want to be part of a global community where the country relies on cheap labour from immigrants BUT wants to talk about a “work-life balance”(really only applicable for managers)
      Downside: immigrants talk, but especially on forums. Will be disastrous if this is found out, so the only immigrants you should allow to stay on after completion of their qualifications are those with low self-esteem and poor grasp of the English language(<-seen this in action many many times).

      3. Fail people who deserve it, regardless of ethnicity.
      Reason: Modern society relies on qualified people to take responsibility in exchange for the big bucks. Work done poorly, the way Gerald Morton Shirtcliff (Gerald Shirtcliffe) signed off in Christchurch … gets people killed.
      Downside: the kiwi exceptionalism mentality gets attacked. Even more domestic students will drop out! The local women might pair off with immigrants! Cushy jobs for the connected will get reduced in number! More competition for contracts! (Though this step is happening for the sciences in NZ, typically the qualified science graduates are treated as drones … writeup coming about the state of socialisation in NZ(from what I observed) soon, sure to make people have, in the Latin, dolor ani … or Annie Dolor if you want to be humourous)

      P.S. Another reason immigrants get into difficulty with their relationships in NZ, may be because some people think “You’re after our passport, it’s the best one in the world!!11”. Well, for some immigrants who had the honour of correctly being able to understand the subsequent nasty actions from those thoughts – we’ve already got better permanent residencies than kiwis will ever have. We simply made an honest mistake in attempting to discover if one of you were interested to join us on life’s journey – however, given that kiwis live in what they call “Godzone”, well, us immigrants should have taken the hint and not even bothered, rather than wait to hear the dishonest offer of “let’s just be friends”! 🙂

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  87. What are you trying to prove by re-quoting this? Every country has it’s different parts, NZ is no different, the trick is finding the place which you can be happy in. As far as UK goes, if you read mumsnet, as I do, you will find countless stories of people trying to find that elusive friendly community where good schools, friendly neighbours, nice scenery, affordable housing all co-exist. I genuinely tick so many more boxes in the Kapiti coast, the only disappointing factor for me is that the primary schools are skills based instead of content based, so one’s child won’t learn basic facts of history, science, geography and all that an English born and educated person takes for granted as constituting a basic education. This is profoundly disappointing, but other factors are wonderful, it’s a small Pacific island, a long way from everywhere..if this appeals, you might like it, plenty of people do.

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    • It goes to show that you contradict yourself and obviously have been away from NZ for quite some time. That you should chose to seek out this site again and then decided push kool-aid suggests that you’re trying to convince yourself, rather than anyone else about the *benefits* of New Zealand based on some rose tinted perspective you have. Read what the people who have to live there say about the place https://e2nz.org/2017/02/24/reddit-nz-what-sucks-about-living-in-new-zealand/

      Please take a look at the comments guidelines again before making another one: “Before you begin to recite the gospel of New Zealand ask yourself “who am I really trying to convince?

      Please note, this thread is about why people are leaving NZ. You’re off topic. Please don’t troll.

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  88. I’ve been away from NZ for three weeks, I expend a lot of effort trying to convince myself to live in UK which a lot of people leave because of similar issues – class system, depression, overcrowding, poor housing, education, lack of well paid jobs, salaries which haven’t risen for years, social problems, racism, etc, etc, all of which goes to prove that there is no perfect place in the world, it’s where you feel comfortable and at home that matters, like others who move to NZ I am torn because of family not place, I don’t need to convince myself that I love NZ, however I won’t return to this thread as it’s for people who have decided NZ is not for them, which I respect entirely, migrating is an incredibly hard path to choose, we’re not birds!

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    • Jenny you do get around a lot, April-Aug 2015 your posts were coming from the UK and you were saying you moved back there to give your son a better education?

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    • I have no plans to leave NZ but can honestly say that I have spent time in University Cities in the UK and have never witnessed the sort of student behaviour that is common here. See attached link for an example. Even this week, I have encountered people lying asleep in the middle of the road at 1pm in the afternoon and had students falling down in front of my car drunk as I have driven down streets. I am fearful for my own children more than anything as they will be part of this culture.

      Like

  89. Spot on comment on “social science” ;- an oxymoron if ever there was one, and of no practical use whatsoever.

    Meritocracy is not to be had even in more progressive countries as a value and nepotism and Leftist dogma are the the new truths. Look at Canada and the virtue-signalling idiot in charge there.

    Like

    • Thanks for the vote of support.
      However, I regret to inform you that I was not joking.
      That is the actual title of a Social Science Master’s Thesis in New Zealand

      “My way of joking is to tell the truth. It’s the funniest joke in the world.”
      ― George Bernard Shaw, John Bull’s Other Island

      Like

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