779 thoughts on “Don’t Move to New Zealand”

1. Being New Zealand born, the son of immigrants, and a person who has recently returned from a decade overseas to live here, it strikes me that some of the people here had unrealistic expectations of New Zealand. While it is true that it is not the paradise for immigrants that it was in the early 1970s – when my parents moved here – it is still not a bad place to live depending on what you want out of life. If you like the outdoors, going to the beach and hiking, it’s great. Hardly anyone lives more than an hour away from the beach or a bunch of nature trails. If you want great museums, theatres or the beating heart of capitalism, you’re out of luck.

   If you want to make a lot of money, or are a career oriented and ambitious person, then move somewhere else because New Zealand is not for you. You just won’t get the opportunities in New Zealand that you would get in North America, Europe or even Australia. It strikes me as just odd that someone would think to come here if they wanted to make a fortune. In addition, those who come here to get away from Obama’s “socialism” in the US, should not even bother. (1) You obviously don’t know what socialism is; and (2) New Zealand is a social democracy, well to the left of Canada. New Zealand’s main conservative party (the National Party) is well to the left of the US Democrats, and the religious right have zero influence on politics, and to the extent that they exist in New Zealand, are generally reviled. The kind of conservatism that prevails in the US is widely despised in New Zealand, outside a few extremist cranks.

   Economically, it’s not that hard to get by here, although the job market has sucked for a while now because of the recession – perhaps a good reason to delay a move. The main problem is that house prices have massively inflated over the past 15 years, and it’s now quite difficult for young people to buy (something that was not true 30 years ago). Unless you already have at least a reasonable deposit, it’s probably not worth moving here. I’m not sure that anything can be done about it. If it’s any consolation, most young New Zealanders also hate the situation.

   However, many of the comments here seem to me to be complaints about cultural differences, especially from those people originating in North America (l’ve lived there myself, so I have some idea of what you mean). Truth is that you can’t expect New Zealanders to change their ways any more than I expected Canadians and Americans to change theirs when I lived overseas. It’s just a fact that what counts as normal behaviour in the USA (and to a lesser extent Canada) comes across to New Zealanders as patently obnoxious.

   The accepted levels of self-promotion, revelations of personal information, and public discussion of religious belief are much lower in New Zealand than they are in the US. For this reason, the average American sometimes comes off as a tactless, bigoted, braggart. Contrary to popular belief, New Zealanders do admire those who achieve (Sir Edmund Hillary being perhaps the most popular New Zealander in history). They just hate boasters and snobs. Conversely, topics like race and homosexuality, which I’ve found to be somewhat socially taboo in the US, are quite openly talked about here. There’s nothing that can be done about this – it’s just a cultural difference. If it’s any consolation, I found it pretty hard going when I moved to North America – open and frank discussion of homosexuality, for example, freaked many of my colleagues out.

   If you want to get along here, the best thing to do is to adopt a self-deprecating attitude, don’t tell people about your personal problems unless they are close friends, and do not witness your religion to other people. Above all, don’t give us lectures about how our country should be more like the US. All of this is guaranteed poison in New Zealand, and we aren’t going to change any more than other cultures are going to undertake radical change to suit immigrants.

   For what it’s worth, like the person above, I also miss Graham Crackers as well as Buffalo Wings, proper nachos, and edible bagels. But nowhere’s perfect.

   • You just won’t get the opportunities in New Zealand that you would get in North America, Europe or even Australia.

     Thank you for your honesty. Are you aware most of the people attracted to New Zealand are skilled migrants most of whom have made a living from making the most of opportunities? From that they have built up a degree of wealth which has made their emigration possible.

     You yourself worked abroad for 10 years, no doubt the wealth you accumulated overseas means you have a more comfortable lifestyle and the luxury of being able to enjoy the great outdoors as much as you do.

     When you have a spare 30 minutes or so take a look at the employment section of the “New Zealand Now” website and try to find the paragraph which tells people their opportunities in New Zealand are limited.

     What a shame your government can’t be as honest and upfront as you. Maybe if it did some expectation management there would not be so many migrants feeling conned. There would be fewer feeling perplexed at the glass ceiling that “no New Zealand experience” places above them and wondering where all the jobs are. When it does sites like this one will call it a day and a job well done.

2. New Zealand like many countries with massive immigration are suffering from brain-dead immigration policies and very incompetent governments , with little real accountability to citizens . It is very striking as well that integration is very low ,infrastructure is bad to inexistant , taxes are high , and productivity has not improved in decades .
   As with other countries the blame can be laid fairly and squarely on bad government and civil service , who are unaccountable to citizens , except for the fact of losing the next election .

3. Being a New Zealander I am sure some of the comments might be true while others are probably people with a chip on their shoulder. Almost all my friends are Asian, my wife is Japanese, I have always repaid favours and to be honest i spend most of my life helping friends more than what would be viewed as normal. I have been told by too many people in my business field I need to be tougher but I have always been honest with people but expect honesty in return – sadly this is not the case anymore.
   Honest, polite and true is how a normal and civilized person should be. Maybe I am old fashioned but it is sad if I have to teach my kid to beware of people as the majority are scum and cheats. I hope the world is more honest and nice but I am not seeing this to be the case.
   Concerning the attack on Kiwis, I live in Australia and many of the frustrations people are experiencing about NZ might be true but I have also experienced cheating people, liers and crooks when I lived in UK, Australia, NZ and Japan. Overall Japan probably came out to be the most honest but I have met Japanese who are shits and Japanese who are wonderful.
   Like anywhere there are good people and bad people and same applies to NZ.
   I can probably never retire thanks to crooked US, Australian, NZ and Swiss people who decided to conveniently lose my hard earned money by being dishonest.
   I am honest, kind and non-judging as this is what I was taught to be and I know it to be right. By the way i am NOT religious.
   I have overseas friends living in NZ who are doing well and I am sure some are doing it tough but most of my friends are doing ok.
   For my job NZ is too small but I have issues with Australians, UK, Asians and Americans who all contact me for free info without wanting to pay for my knowledge and expertise on Japan and NZ would be no different.
   Take comments online with a grain of salt and do proper research and then make a decision.

   • In summary what you are saying is that New Zealand has the same issues as every other country you’ve lived in, plus its too small for you to make a living there. Thanks for the honesty.

     • Pretty much. NZ has good and bad. I know some immigrants who make a very good living in NZ and have a much better quality of life than I have in Australia or what they had in their original country but I know some don’t. My job is related to one specific country – Japan- very niche so yes I feel NZ is too small for my current career.
       Concerning the cost of living I agree somethings are pricey either due to small market, location, taxes or whatever but not everything. Some things cost a lot more in NZ while some cost less. The comment about things like the quality of education I feel this is falling everywhere including Australia, Japan, UK, US etc. Instead of having NZ commented in isolation it should be viewed rationally and in comparison with the rest of the world.
       It is small so employment options are limited compared to larger economies in certain ways. It is further away from the rest of the world so it can cost more to travel to other places. Small population base limits economies of scale and so on.
       There are many positives as well and research can be done on the web if you know how to look for it.
       Overall I would say my quality of life was better when I was in NZ than what it is in Australia but I will not be moving back as my son likes his life here and he is what is important and I am too old to change careers easily.
       One thing NZ definitely has in common with many countries is useless, poorly focused and self interested politicians.
       Good luck with whatever any person decides concerning immigration.

   • I don’t think any reasonable person would be put off moving to New Zealand because of some unflattering decriptions of its people. People are the same everywhere, more or less, but what changes is the prevailing culture, and this I think is what can be a bit unappealing or challenging for some people.
     As for doing research, it’s actually hard to find reliable information online because of the prevalence of forums and sites with an economic interest in attracting migrants. I am grateful for this site because here you can find more honest information, from people who live or have lived in New Zealand. I’ve been here for eight years and much of what people say on here rings true from my experience.
     It’s easy to say New Zealanders are nice people, same as everywhere, but it’s not really helpful to the discussion, not really the point. It detracts from important issues such as salary, cost of living, quality and expense of housing, quality of education, exhorbitant and greedy cost of goods, expense of overseas travel, etc., which are the real challenges for most.
     For some people, moving to New Zealand offers them a better life in some ways, but it really depends on what they were accustomed to beforehand, and what their expectations are. For most people, regardless, the cost of living, and quality of housing, etc. will put a damper on the enjoyment of the place.

     • It is a culture with sharp edges. http://www.expatexposed.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=926&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0&sid=30e86e445e124611afaa11c3dcec5484

4. Well, those last comments, all thoughtful, are enough for
   me at this point. It’s hard to understand, but understandable.
   Common sense says to erect a red flag at this point, and abandon
   the idea of moving. Like the kind doctor actually did, I thought to
   bring my expertise to NZ, to fully integrate as an American in NZ,
   and soak up the culture. It now appears to be a personal and
   financial risk that I am unable to take, especially with a 13-year
   old daughter to provide for. It’s really heartbreaking. Thank you,
   everyone.

   • Just saw this page. Glad to see that another lamb has been diverted from the slaughterhouse.

5. The thing that irks me about Kiwi’s is that, percentage
   wise, alot more of them love to tag their online names with NZ or
   Kiwi whereas others do not do this as much. I am Kiwi and even on
   local websites there are some that need to broadcast their
   nationality to the rest of the nation just in case they dont know.
   Anyway, quite right about NZ, if you dont have the dosh, you are
   struggling daily. I know every service company needs to make money
   but from what i’ve experienced, SME sized business in NZ will
   invoice people for as high an amount as they can. It’s a place
   where it becomes very difficult to dig your way out. After a year
   out of uni with an NZ bank, i was cut, and after searching, found
   another country was willing to start me at 3 times my NZ salary. In
   my 12th year now. Still, am waiting for the day when i can return
   with enough money to buy a freehold house and biz… Well that was
   the plan but after sending the family to Australia for kids
   education, it now seems Oz will be my final destination (climate,
   higher pay , etc…).

6. This continues to be shattering to me! Thank you for such a
   thoughtful post. Why do you remain after such horrible encounters?
   I’m so sorry this happened to you, out of basic human sympathy. The
   more I read, the more cemented in my mind ‘never move to NZ gets’.
   Thank you so much for taking the time to post.

   • andrea : This continues
     to be shattering to me! Thank you for such a thoughtful post. Why
     do you remain after such horrible encounters? I’m so sorry this
     happened to you, out of basic human sympathy. The more I read, the
     more cemented in my mind ‘never move to NZ gets’. Thank you so much
     for taking the time to post.

     For my part my
     Kiwi husband’s parents have only just passed away in the past 4
     years (4 years apart that is) and as I (unlike many posters here)
     had a good career & I wanted to support my husband in
     wanting to be the best son possible in their last years. Since the
     death of his dad in the past year we have been lining up selling
     our medical practice (easier said than done) but we are on our way
     out. We both have dear friends and patients we will both miss and
     worry about, but in this country the harder you work the less you
     achieve. Our decisions are not based entirely on the social tone of
     the place, but also we are increasingly alarmed at the vast divide
     between rich and poor and the scary social problems that rise from
     that – which we see every day. We agonized over this decision
     because this country needs skilled professionals, and we are
     anxious to sell our business with our employees’ jobs guaranteed as
     part of the sale for at least six months, on the same rates, work
     shifts and benefits we have been paying (again, easier said than
     done) and emigrating to another country – at any age, and
     particularly later in life – is harder and more expensive than just
     hopping on a plane – but to answer your question, we aren’t
     remaining. For a long time we felt we could fashion a life here and
     perhaps do our small bit to help heal some of this country’s social
     ills – and we did give that a 2 decade shot – but at this point
     it’s like spitting into a huge roaring fire being stoked by greedy
     corporates and the NZ government lackeys who are in their pay. My
     Kiwi husband considers Canada more home than the country in which
     he grew up, which is very sad.

     • Thank you for your kindly worded and very honest comments. My husband is a surgeon and has been offered a fixed-term contract for 3 years. GPs have lots of work in Canada but surgeons are facing a substantial job shortage! I am nervous about moving but from what I’ve read here I think we will move on a temporary basis and keep our exit options open to return to Canada at the end of the contract. I realize your post was from 3 yrs ago – are you back in Canada now? If so, whereabouts? If you are willing I would value more insight from you before we move!

   • We left, and we’d have left after about a year and a half
     or so of living there, in fact, if it weren’t for legal problems
     that forced us to stick around for some years after. There are many
     reasons why you do not see a balanced presence for New Zealand on
     the web. 1 – as for anything official, the government’s money comes
     from “pure-reputation” agricultural exports and tourism. So
     anything “not pure” tends to be chased off the web by google
     bombing or some other method (chasing anyone who makes negative
     comments about New Zealand off of general immigration forums).
     There are many poor people in New Zealand who lack the technology
     to put the true face of New Zealand on the web. Those who have
     computer connections often wouldn’t waste their precious expensive
     bandwidth putting anything negative online. They have a cultural
     taboo against negativity, as well. And a “cultural cringe” plus
     “chip on the shoulder”. So many factors combine to give people an
     unrealistic view of New Zealand. What’s difficult is for those of
     us who have lived there to show the other side without seeming
     negative ourselves. When you’re dealing with a reputation-paranoid
     positivity attitude, anything negative seems out of place. People
     really want to believe there’s a Xanadu on Earth. Well, if there is
     one, it isn’t in NZ. If you still don’t believe us, go ahead and
     move there. It isn’t that some people do not migrate there
     successfully They do. Be rich, outdoorsy and read all the pitfalls
     on these pages before you go, and she’ll be right. Smile!

     • I recently, in my job, have handled a good bit of marketing material relating to nation brand marketing. I am reading about a country that has had a good bit of recent bad press for drug violence and the country’s promoters (in league with the government) are having to figure out how to attract tourists, how to overcome that reputation created by news stories about drug violence that have become “deep-seated” in people’s minds, dissuading them from visiting the country and making its poverty worse. In NZ’s case, nothing was in people’s minds because it was so obscure a place. NZ, what do you think of ? Island somewhere “out there” with a lot of sheep, people with funny accents? So they really had a blank slate as far as creating a brand in people’s minds. Their obscurity worked for them when this brand marketing crap became the thing to do. The insidious thing is that governments, news agencies and private business (the documents that cross my desk actually refer to informal agreements with information outlets not to release negative information because in doing so they are fouling their own country’s economic nest) work hand in hand in an almost fascistic way to control a given country’s press abroad. The Internet is still somewhat free. The problem is the Big Lie. The louder you shout something, the truer it appears to be, to naive people. So people who know how to saturate the Net with their message and manipulate search returns will get their message across better. We must be savvy consumers of information. When people ask me about New Zealand, I always point them here for “another viewpoint” along with the archived ExpatExposed board. It’s not all pretty scenery and LOTR. They’ve got problems, and they know how to hide them to keep that money rolling in and propping their economy up.

7. I am still puzzled at HOW a COUNTRY is so adept at masking
   ALL of this SO well, for SO long? I have listened to NZ radio
   broadcasts, watched their tv a bit, read the NZ Harold from time to
   time, and I DO see personality expressed, I DO see humility in
   nature (not arrogance), and I DO see white teeth! Seriously. I’m
   sincerely puzzled by this website. Can someone please explain this
   in a nutshell for me? Anyone ELSE move to NZ -from- USA and have a
   nightmare experience?

   • andrea : I am still
     puzzled at HOW a COUNTRY is so adept at masking ALL of this SO
     well, for SO long? I have listened to NZ radio broadcasts, watched
     their tv a bit, read the NZ Harold from time to time, and I DO see
     personality expressed, I DO see humility in nature (not arrogance),
     and I DO see white teeth! Seriously. I’m sincerely puzzled by this
     website. Can someone please explain this in a nutshell for me?
     Anyone ELSE move to NZ -from- USA and have a nightmare experience?

     I’m from Canada, not the USA but I have had a
     pretty nightmarish existence here… New Zealand has one of the
     largest (per capita) populations living outside their country – so
     most of those with any education, skills or sense of adventure have
     gone overseas. What is left here is a very dysfunctional society –
     google these terms: “drunks on queen street auckland” or “drunks in
     wellington” and you’ll get a sense of the place. There has been the
     fastest growing gap between rich in poor (in the last 20 – 30
     years) ever seen in the developed world, and they also have been
     dismantling what was once a fine medical and education system.
     There is an insular, foreigner hating vibe in this place that will
     shock you. Please consider coming as a tourist – you should really
     see the place as it is beautiful – and there are many wonderful
     people – but there is also an American-hating hillbilly vibe that
     you might find a little hard to take. The people left behind in NZ
     cannot afford food or heat and the dentist is for emergencies only.
     No one would get what Americans and Canadians consider basic dental
     restoration – hence the gappy and discoloured smiles. I make many
     times what is considered a very livable wage here. And if I don’t
     eat out, turn up the heat, or or go to the dentist on a whim
     without weighing up the cost, so the ordinary working stiff here is
     pretty much starving and without modern dentistry. Which, yes, if
     you are from North American strikes you immediately. The
     anti-American thing… well, just read the threads, that’s all I
     can say. It’s all true. I’ve been kicked, hit with shopping
     trollies and had drinks thrown on me by complete strangers,
     probably because they took my Canadian accent for American. And I
     am always hearing loud, stagey conversations about how
     stupid/greedy/warmongering Americans are, if I dare to speak with
     my accent in a crowded place like a cafe or line of people waiting
     anywhere. People here are aggressive in ways that you would not
     consider possible. Though, as they will be glad to tell you, there
     are so many mass shooters in the USA, we should like getting kicked
     by complete strangers in NZ. Or something like that.

     • “loud, stagey conversations about how stupid/greedy/warmongering Americans are, if I dare to speak with my accent in a crowded place like a cafe or line of people waiting anywhere”.

       We experienced a lot of that “anonymous baffling aggression” as well. made forays out of the home sooo pleasant. (not) And no, we weren’t “loud ones”, either. I taught the kids to speak in an almost-whisper so they wouldn’t cop so much of this. Obnoxious Kiwis. So glad to be out.

8. Despite my deep sadness over this site’s information, and
   the corroboration of it that I am finding in some other reading on
   the WWW, I am appreciative of this site. I thought seriously of
   immigrating to NZ with the purpose of not setting up a ‘little
   America,’ but totally absorbing the countryside and partaking in
   the richness of races there – But I now have too much genuine doubt
   in my ability to find contentedness and financial means in NZ as an
   American woman interested in the world, military happenings,
   government, and as someone with an innately quirky sense of humor,
   and an insatiable need to laugh and live life hard. I have doubt
   that I would be welcome much at all, ever. I pity that NZ’ers
   themselves appear to be their own worst enemy in many ways. The US
   has plenty of places to pity in the same light, my goodness. I
   admire the hell out of NZ’ers for making what they HAVE made in
   that country, knowing what I know now. It just sounds like a very,
   very tough place to live and set up a foundation for a thriving
   country. I’ll continue to hold fast to my unexplainable crush on
   the 1NZSAS, until I hear otherwise.? They join other fine men in an
   ugly war for the sake of NZ, and I feel this helps everyone. They
   do more, and I know now with SO much less, and do it extremely
   well. For that I am eternally grateful. God bless, and, again,
   thank you.

9. Sorry, I meant to say “Besides, most people who live here are not interested in *except* trying to keep warm, keep food on the table and not die of despair” –

10. I saw my 2010 misstep, but had to get back to work and could not correct it until now. Thank you for correcting that. I also read the info you provided on my lunch. Thank you for that too.

    I feel rather crushed for this site’s information, I really do. The summary sounds like beautiful New Zealand is just damn hard to live in, damn hard to get out of, damn hard to like, and damn hard to defend. ?

    Can anyone answer my question about the reputation of the 1NZSAS in NZ? I have a background that leaves me reading a lot about modern warfare, and have read and heard first-hand accounts of how professional, well behaved, tough, and respected (by other SOF!) these men are, so I was intensely curious about how they are viewed by NZ’ers there. I know they fight for NZ, and some have died, so heros to me anyway on that level.
    Thank you very much.

    • andrea : I saw my 2010
      misstep, but had to get back to work and could not correct it until
      now. Thank you for correcting that. I also read the info you
      provided on my lunch. Thank you for that too. I feel rather crushed
      for this site’s information, I really do. The summary sounds like
      beautiful New Zealand is just damn hard to live in, damn hard to
      get out of, damn hard to like, and damn hard to defend. ? Can
      anyone answer my question about the reputation of the 1NZSAS in NZ?
      I have a background that leaves me reading a lot about modern
      warfare, and have read and heard first-hand accounts of how
      professional, well behaved, tough, and respected (by other SOF!)
      these men are, so I was intensely curious about how they are viewed
      by NZ’ers there. I know they fight for NZ, and some have died, so
      heros to me anyway on that level. Thank you very much.

      I would guess that most Kiwis who would know
      what you’re talking about live overseas… I’ve met a lot of people
      here who are very proud to say they never read the newspaper, have
      never, ever visited another country, and are deeply proud of their
      geographical and intellectual isolation. Besides, most people who
      live here are not interested in anything about trying to keep warm,
      keep food on the table and not die of despair. People who talk
      about world affairs, politics, or anything beyond the daily grind
      are viewed with deep dislike as politically correct, ponced up
      wankers who need a dose of reality, in the form of 1) freezing,
      mouldy, damp housing 2) the terrifyingly high cost of living that
      means a really crappy diet and the ill health that accompanies
      that.

11. BTW, according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate, NZ is NOT among the highest suicide rates, but 39th, as of what looks to be data up to 2011. When incorrect facts are presented by posters to this site, it makes me question everything being said. ? No, I’m not a native NZ’er, but American.

12. I am dumb-founded at this information, since all NZ is painted so much differently. I AM curious, however: The 1NZSAS has a stellar reputation for being the most professional ‘get it done’ military groups – Please tell me they don’t fall into the behavior described above? I hold them in such high esteem, but don’t want to do so ignorantly. They sacrifice much, give much, die for NZ…surely there are exquisite men to revere in NZ?

13. If the woman can’t even survive because the economy’s so bad and no jobs, what is she supposed to “give back”? What will she eat when she comes home from volunteering somewhere for free? Come on, man. Typical Kiwi bullsh***

14. What an interesting site to stumble across, after 9yrs of living in Christchurch,sadly have to agree with many of the comments being made. We do own our own home, nothing fancy with hardly a garden to speak of but at least we have managed to buy a home, having moved here from South Africa that took some doing considering the exchange rate. We have spent a fortune installing heating and insulation as Kiwi’s for some reason believe that a simple log burner is sufficient to cope with winter temperatures that drop below zero overnight. Our first 5 years were a real struggle just to keep head above water, and even now we are not able to afford a lifestyle that may involve eating out on a regular basis or going to the movies or theatre, and it has taken me 18mths to be able to save enough for a holiday to the UK. We are fairly frugal, but still have to budget to afford new clothing, visits to the dentist, weekend breaks or simply paying the utility bills. We were just beginning to feel more settled when the Chch earthquakes happened….back to trying to find anything positive about life in the city at the moment. We have made a few friends, but those are all Kiwi’s with experience with living abroad, and on the whole find that Kiwi’s do hold you at arm’s length and you get the impression that you are always the outsider. Offer them the opportunity of a freebie of any sort though and they will be fighting between themselves to grab it without much of a “thankyou”!
    We have worked very hard for what we have, have never taken any ‘handouts’ from the government, and are trying desperately to find the positives of living in New Zealand which is not that easy. My youngest son is heading off to the UK for a year or two as feels the opportunities here are very limited (he is a chef) and
    sadly I do not expect to see him return to New Zealand once he gets sees what else the world has to offer.
    New Zealand relies so much on their clean, green image and lures immigrants in with promises of a wonderful lifestyle, and yes Queenstown and Wanaka are fantastic, and sking is great if you can afford to do it. My advice is to do your homework, compare prices and don’t be fooled by the clean, green image on the immigration sites.

15. I have decided that me and my mum or father will be moving to the United States on the grounds that food and clothing and living is much more dearer in New Zealand than the United States

16. Deleted…

    • Harold please read our comments guidelines before posting.

      https://e2nz.org/comments

      Thanks.

17. Hello
    I have lived in nz for a year, about 5 years ago and I found it some what lonely but when I did make friends, mainly with other travellers on similar experiences, we have stayed friends ever since and we had an amazing time. know im thinking of returning to try and learn nz skills in the agricultural industry which are not available in the UK but im concerned about, the price of living, usually you get a house with ag jobs, but after reading some comments Im concerned that my wage will not be enough to pay the bills and survive for me and my dog and I’ll run out of money and have no way home for either of us.

    Can anyone tell me what rural life is like?

    • You can take your dog WWOOFing. I would do that if I were you. Buy a round trip ticket right now, and you will always have a way out, no matter how many problems you are having with money in New Zealand. Make sure to have a position lined up before you go.

18. Websites like this one exist not to offend Kiwis, but to provide clearer information about what New Zealand is really like, Dakota. I don’t know if you are aware of this, but your government actively invites migrants to move to your country, promising them a good lifestyle. This would run against the wishes of many New Zealanders, who don’t want foreigners owning their land. But are very happy to take their money and urge them to move on. Enough migrants had bad things happen to them in New Zealand that they have started a few websites giving more information about the conditions and attitudes that are there. Your participation is encouraged if you want to tell the truth and help them out.

19. Hi. I am from New Zealand and from what I am reading on here, people are saying that New Zealanders are poor, and have to make do with what we have. SOME people do. Not all New Zealanders. There are quite a lot of New Zealanders that are rich and posh. A lot of people stereotype us as poor, useless Maori people that are criminals. If you want to move to New Zealand, make sure you research about where you move to. Us New Zealanders are very protective over what is ours.

20. find alternative outlets for ordering or get a friend to order them and mail them to you labeled as gift. I found some health products that were weirdly prescription and not over the counter in New Zealand such as melatonin (WTF!? and you can buy tylenol with codeine over the counter?) could be ordered in from overseas online.

21. Man, every time I think I can not dislike this place any more, something else happens. Now, I have discovered that I can not order a lot of my products that are critical for my health, this damn country will NOT let them in!!!!!!!!!!!!!Who are they to tell me what to take for my health or not to take??????????????? I can stand this place, if I could leave tomorrow, I would, but as I shared, I have to wait until I have more money, etc.

    To the poster that said do not get pregnant, LOL, no chance of that at my age, it is now impossible. But thanks for all your info anyway.

22. Hi I think in depth the following. I have the fortunate reality of being able to see the take part in the best part of the countries offers. My family fish for salmon in the morning and ski in the afternoon in spring. Holiday in the Tasman for four weeks in paradise on the golden sand beaches, we take part in all cultural events around the country. The thing about this is that all of this is done affordably and timed. The unfortunate reality of this unless you are born here or have great partner whom can open your eyes to this you could get stuck in a small cold wintered dredge that gets you down. I agree this and it deep sadness that the real beauty of this country is knowledge of the land is and in many cases this has been lost, with it goes the way to show others how to really enjoy the place. I think the real issue here is why your new husband, friend or advisor isn’t doing this. I don’t think it matters where you are I think unless you can change this any destination for you will be fruitless and empty. Perhaps in our travelling Americans case, she should leave her new relationship and find someone whom can really show her a true life change here or their. Good luck with your travels.

    • Well, I have not left yet, really can not afford to, but sure do miss my America.

      I have to agree with what you said about my husband opening my eyes to the wonders of the area, he is NOT. I am discovering that New Zealand is fanatically lovely, but, it is HIM who is making me hate it. We live in a tiny community, and I hardly get to leave, I have been to Christchurch, Kaikora, West Port, and others, but, that is so seldom, I feel soooo trapped. I have found the folks here to be really nice, sort of a refreshing, innocence about them, I can not complain about how they have treated me, but oh my, my husband, he is not mean to me, but, he just does not understand how I feel and bad mouths me to his friends saying I hate it here, he never tells them why. I have always known that a person can actually make our break a place, well, he is breaking it for me. I might be able to be happy here if circumstances with us were different. Oh well. such is life.

23. Agree. run and leave that husband in New Zealand. Don’t get pregnant before then. Do not tell him you are going before you see a lawyer first to make sure he won’t be making a grab for any property you had before the marriage, which you would have been able to keep under U.S. law but not under N.Z. law.

24. “They like to brag too that the reason they do not get along with others is due to culture reason, at least that husband of mine does. I do not think I have ever argued more in my life as I have since I have married him, he blames “culture” I blame him and New Zealand. I also noticed, like one poster said, a “step ford wives” type of atmosphere, if you do not conform to how they want you to act, forget it, you are an outcast, well, I am NOT going to do that, they can shove off. I HATE small towns, and this one is horrible,”

    Yes, the NZers do always brag, boast and thump their chest – usually while delivering a few negative comments about your own country… but after 25 long years here (I’m Canadian) it still depresses me – though the reasons why have changed over time.

    “I maybe could have handled Christchurch, but this place, I am depressed beyond words daily”

    NOOOO! Christchurch would be even worse, believe it or not. It’s full of people being driven crazy by the earthquake mess, still living without water and toilets. The rent is astronomical – to live in something where you will freeze (literally) or die of mould inhalation would bankrupt you unless you are rich. And the mental health of the population is… um… not good. It comes out as random violence, social aggression, weird, weird murders and a big neo nazi following (like the KKK).

    “I am planning on moving back home this Fall (America’s Fall), with or without hubby. I just can not handle it anymore, my health and well being are not worth it. I will NOT look back once that bird takes off from Christchurch, I will probably kiss America’s ground when I land.”

    You are so smart to do this – I made the mistake of thinking I could live here happily. I live here, but I loathe the place – though I know many good people here I have zero friends after a quarter century. These people do not make friends with outsiders.

    “Again, sorry if I have offended any Kiwi’s that read this. I am sure there are great ones out there, and you DO have a beautiful country, it is just NOT for me, I wish I had know all this and how I would feel before I left my home.”

    Me too, I am not one of the posters that hates everyone in NZ – though I have had enough serous bad things done to me (random assault, robbed, work stolen, landlords perverty etc) to understand those people who just hate this place and everyone in it… but like you I don’t see this as the fault of every person in the country and I am sorry to hurt people’s feelings when I say how much I loathe the NZ culture and society operate, but it is truly what I think. I rarely volunteer that, unless someone presses me for an honest opinion.. and that’s happened like, twice in 25 years. I know what you mean about blaaah personalities too… but it’s just the way you’re supposed to be here. People get beaten up if they are too enthusiastic about anything. It’s kind of funny (if you can learn to laugh at it) but it does cause untold damage and I applaud you for getting away while you still can. A lot of the worst aspects of the culture are kind of funny if you can switch off any sense of… caring I suppose. But it makes you dead inside. Don’t let anything or anyone stop you from getting home – I speak to everyone here and everyone considering coming here. Learn from my horrible mistake – I regret it every day of my life.

    Goodbye, and thanks for the post One Sad American – and enjoy everything when you get home. Have a wonderful time – everyday life will seem like heaven. It’s incredible that life that looks so generally the same on the surface here in NZ (sort of) can be so horribly, grimly, brutally different in real life.

25. Wow, I just found this site. I first want to apologize to the native Kiwi’s that live here, I am not out to bash or hurt you, but, I do have some things to say.

    Razorback and Calvin, I agree 100% with all you wrote. I married a Kiwi that I met online, he came over to America to meet me, he stayed a month, then, like a fool, I married him and came back here. Oh my gosh, I now know what it will be like to live in hell because I have been living it everyday since I got here in October. I never dreamed I would miss my beloved America so much, sure, we have our troubles, but, still, all in all, there is no place like it.

    First, I just can not stand the taste of the food here, mercy, what do they do to it, and those “Kiwi burgers” they are crap on a bun, I hate beets, or beet root as they call it, the only time I can eat what I call “American” is when I eat at a McDonald’s. I have read on other forums that they do the same thing. I just can NOT get use to the food, and the groceries do NOT carry what I am use to. I miss my Graham Crackers, Velveeta cheese, pickle relish (over here, pickle relish is an entirely different thing), etc. The prices to eat out will knock a person on their kester, mercy, and for what, little postage stamp size servings. Yeah, maybe we do over eat in the US, but that is our prerogative, I do not like being forced to eat a size that I do not want to eat, plus, have it taste like it came out of the backside of the animal it was made from.

    Second, why don’t they use ice over here, I HATE my water luke warm, I simply refuse to drink it, I very seldom get water when I am out that does have ice in it, that sucks. Ice is free, so, that should make them happy over here, one of the few things that are as far as I am concerned.

    Third, you can not order online over here like in the states. I see things that I really want, go to order, and BANG, find out that it is either not “allowed” (bull crap) here, or they do not ship here. I get all excited over a product, then my hopes are dashed, this has happened so much. The shipping is horrendous, usually more than the product when you do order on-line.

    Fourth, regarding the Internet and cell phone service, holy moly, the prices are high. Back home, I used US Cellular, the best company going, I hardly paid for anything, well, not so here my dears, you pay for everything, and they regulate how many gigs you can use before the raise the prices even higher. Then, to add insult to injury, this damn place will NOT allow certain sites in, such as certain TV channels that stream, forget it, so, I have also lost all my favorite TV shows by moving to this unmentionable place. The Internet service, is OK, I will give it that, but, again, you are only ” allowed” so many gigs, etc, then they slow it down, that stinks, I am not use to that at all, was not done back home.

    Fifth, the health care system, I have to pay a very high price because I am not a “resident” grant it, when I am one, if I last that long, it will get lower, but again, it is socialized medicine, and we are fighting that in the states now as a matter of fact. They do not believe in doing tests like they do at home, this is very upsetting for me.

    Sixth, I just can not believe that none of the homes here have central heat. All the place has that my husband and I live in, is a wood fire place, and it gets so dang cold at night, all the other rooms you freeze your backside off. Most of the water faucets are separate, hot and cold, so, you do not get an even water fill when taking a bath, if you are lucky enough to have a tub. The toilet is in a separate room entirely, not bad, I guess if you have to go and someone is in the other room, but all in all, I hate it. Also, you go real fast, no heat in that room at all. No electrical outlet either, man, how awful.

    As to the people, yes, I have found some to be most rude, especially when trying to cross the road, they just will not stop, I think they would run you down first. They basically are very blah in their personality, they do not joke a lot, and when it was Christmas, well, you sure would not know it, no stores around here decorate, and no one is happy, hardly any carols are played either. This was my first Christmas here, and it was so depressing. Add that to the heat, when there should be snow, and it makes for a Christmas you want to forget. They like to brag too that the reason they do not get along with others is due to culture reason, at least that husband of mine does. I do not think I have ever argued more in my life as I have since I have married him, he blames “culture” I blame him and New Zealand. I also noticed, like one poster said, a “step ford wives” type of atmosphere, if you do not conform to how they want you to act, forget it, you are an outcast, well, I am NOT going to do that, they can shove off. I HATE small towns, and this one is horrible, I maybe could have handled Christchurch, but this place, I am depressed beyond words daily.

    I am planning on moving back home this Fall (America’s Fall), with or without hubby. I just can not handle it anymore, my health and well being are not worth it. I will NOT look back once that bird takes off from Christchurch, I will probably kiss America’s ground when I land.

    Again, sorry if I have offended any Kiwi’s that read this. I am sure there are great ones out there, and you DO have a beautiful country, it is just NOT for me, I wish I had know all this and how I would feel before I left my home.

26. Gees I’ve never read such a load of ignorant crap! Have any of you travalled to other countries or immigrated to other countries? Its hard!- and in my experience not really country dependant. most people immigrate with a “grass is greener” attitude, and are often disappointed! My experience is that the first 6months are stressful but exciting, the next 2 years are hell and then slowly things start getting better. For gods sake toughen up! Asan aside, don’t winge about NZ to NZers- they all know whats wrong with there country, they just don’t want it thrown in their face -fair enough IMO!

    • In essence what you’re saying is this.

      There is a lot wrong about New Zealand. Kiwis know it and don’t like to talk about it and don’t like anyone else talking about it either.

      In which case, isn’t it good that sites like this one exist otherwise nothing would ever change.

      • [Deleted, read the comment guidelines:

        Please do not make ‘don’t like it then leave‘ types of comments, they will be deleted and earn you a ban.

        Best, Admin]

    • Asan aside, don’t winge about NZ to NZers- they all know whats wrong with there country, they just don’t want it thrown in their face -fair enough IMO!
      Now aren’t you glad people are “winge”(sic)-ing on an internationally accessible forum? That way, NZers don’t need to experience it said to their faces 🙂
      Voting with the wallet changes more behaviours than laws or exhortations towards religion/spirituality.

27. I am a Kiwi born and bred. And it saddens me to read so many negative feelings about my country. All I can think is that what those people have experienced correlates to the fact that this country, being as it is “at the bottom of the globe” is now finally beginning to experience attitudes that have long been entrenched in most other Countries across the world. Regrettably the advent of the “mobile travelling world population” has meant that most of those poor attitudes have been brought here by members of the very cultures who now seem to want to villify their destination of choice!! We have still a unique perspective on life here. It may not conform to the prevailing world opinion ( re culture, intellectual aspiration etc. etc. ) BUT who on earth has been given the inalienable right to make the judgement calls that seek to belittle our take on life. Heck, the “superiour” feelings that those cultures have about themselves and which they hold so dear to, fail to make any reference to the chequered histories of those nations and which ultimately are responsible for the decline of the human species. SO wise up you critics!! Either clear your sullied minds of all that residual perversion and refraction that you have brought to this lovely place with you, or ship out asap or ship out s

    • But New Zealand is a nation of immigrants isn’t it?

      Please note that many of the people who contribute to this site are New Zealanders, would you like them to leave too?

    • Kiwis love to put the blame for their attitudes and problems on other people, places, societies and cultures. So pure and innocent? Not.

28. This thread is really throwing me for a loop. I am from the US and have thought seriously about moving to NZ after visting a friend in Christchurch who (also from the US) who was living there for a couple of years because of her job. She loved living there. Sure stuff was expensive. She went on a crazy buying spree when she got back, buying everything in sight, and when I was like “Whoa slow down a bit, she was like, but its all so cheap!!!” Despite that she loved the laid back lifestyle. In the US you have opportunity, but that doesn’t work out for everyone, and there is NO SAFETY net. You can work hard as hell here all your life, and some banker A**HOLE can steal your pension and you will die miserable and poor. In a “right to work state” you’re lucky to get a minimum wage job, with no benefits at wal-mart. Get cancer with no insurance and you are SCR*WED. Companies here expect a lot and often with crappy pay. If your upper middle class it’s easy enough, but it sucks to be working poor here, hell its stinks anywhere. My friend’s view after living there for 2 years was the people she knew in NZ, worked to live but didn’t live to work. She was mostly hanging with a middle-class college professor crowd. The critical thing for was she wasn’t so hurried and stressed all the time, the pace of life was just slower in NZ. And the island itself was freakin gorgeous. The US has its spectacular views too, don’t get me wrong, but if you want to see it, it will cost you some big bucks in travel expenses with that much land to cover. I live in the southern part of the US, so rednecks don’t scare me one bit. Frankly the people I met in NZ seemed WAY less “redneck” scary than my next door neighbors here. I’m self employed and can work from anywhere so job isn’t an issue. Sure my money wouldn’t go as far, but if I have $300k USD in the bank, an income of $70000 USD that isn’t dependent on my finding employment there, is the cost of living and taxes going to impoverish me? I don’t watch TV, I hate cell phones, I could care less about a flashy car. My husband and I are friendly to neighbors, but are happy enough amongst ourselves. We are in our early 40’s and don’t have children. We just want to live somewhere peaceful and not so D*MN hot and humid, and stressful. I’m so sick of heat in the 90’s for three months of the year. I love windy, rainy places (the other place I’m thinking of moving to are pacific northwest or western Canada.) I was thinking of trying to find a smaller farm on the southern island. Are people seriously going to hate me because I’m from the US?

    • Might work out for you in NZ, might not. Factors in your favour: $300k USD in the bank and an income of $70000 USD that isn’t dependent on your finding employment there. If you can manage not to get it sucked off you by hungry Kiwis, you’ll do great. You will need to insulate a house, and buy things online if you expect an American standard. If you want to come home to visit relatives, factor in the airfare. You will have to file two tax returns for 10 years after leaving, and pay into both social security systems (NZ and US), unless you abandon U.S. citizenship. It was suggested to me to form a company under NZ law to save on taxes, but the tax preparation costs are higher if you do so, so you don’t end up actually paying fewer taxes if you follow this advice. Your purchasing power will be low in NZ. The USD is not in your favour, and what you can get for the money is so different from in the U.S. That is why your friend was going on an Olga Korbut type spree, because New Zealand is much like a Soviet bloc state in terms of the lifestyle available to its residents and citizens. We found it such a struggle to survive there, and with so few resources and activities other than going outside and looking at or dancing around in the scenery, that we found living in the States easier, mellower and more stimulating. A certain low level of everything in New Zealand is low-cost, but there is not much above that. There are plans on the part of banks there to Cyprus-style raid people’s bank accounts http://www.expatexposed.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=58290 , so you are not escaping corrupt bankers in New Zealand. Housing is very poor, so expect to spend a lot more to buy something livable and then spend even more fixing it up to be genuinely livable. Expect to be taken for a ride in various ways. Anti-Americanism can be subtle, sometimes it just comes in the form of stereotypical expectations that you are endlessly rich, or sly digs, or confrontational remarks that sound like they are just starting a discussion when actually they are wanting an apology for our government. If I were you, I would simply move further north in the U.S. Moving to a cooler area of New Zealand would be like moving to Eastern Poland or something, with all cultural barriers that you’d find in Poland but minus the language barrier. And minus the culture and history that you’d find in Europe.

    • With that income you could live in a smaller outlying community in Washington state near the ocean, close to the Canadian border and have a fantastic lifestyle with all the comforts of your native country!

29. I just discovered randomly that the website http://www.p0lice.g0vt.nz/n0bu11y saying that the no bu11y website does not exist anymore. it is no surprise to me that it wont exist further, because back in the days before 1996 I was shocked to see that telec0n company that so called sponsor and hosted that site doesn’t practice what they preach, so internally it was a place filled with malicious calls and bullying and you have no hotlines to turn to for help, because it is the same company that takes these calls for help, so if they don’t believe in what they say to others and only have things like that as PR or make someone looks good, why bother? if the truth and honest values are set in stone, it should have lasted forever, why keep change for the sake of changing if that’s really the message they want everyone to abide by? please hosting a website can cost next to nothing, don’t tell me p0lice or telec0n or the g0vt have no money!

30. newzealanders are better then anyone in the world they may be samll and may not have as many people but it is a great country and i think everything you say is stupid and not true.

31. Absolute rubbish! If you are prepared to work hard and smart you can live the good life in NZ. I mobed from South Africa 10 years ago with very little and have lived in Auckland since. I own (yes, own) a relatively good home, 2 late model vehicles and earn NZ$90,000 a year. Most come here expecting to live the laid back island life lounging around the beaches all day and expect living to be dirt cheap while they workmas little as possible. Granted, renting is expensive, but if you work hard you get the chance to play hard.

    • Most come here expecting to live the laid back island life lounging around the beaches all day and expect living to be dirt cheap while they workmas little as possible.
      In my experience at university, the majority of people I saw enjoying university life to the hilt … were domestic students.
      I guess life’s pretty good when somebody else is paying the bills.

32. You need to get off the antidepressants, limit the alcohol, and get out any way you can: it doesn’t get any better. Kiwis are pack animals and will hold you back and beat you down. No one is going to help you. Don’t hold your breath hoping for a break – it will never come, and if a mirage does appear, it will be long after you have given up, and it will be a dead end, and perpetual poverty.

    Remember who you are and where you come from. You are better than this.

33. I’m a New Zealander that has spent most of my adulthood in Europe and North America. I was most recently living in SE Asia. Thought that I would go back to New Zealand and make the most of the place. But I realize now that I should have stayed in Germany or the USA. This is a pretty country and there a lot of good things about it, but the pay sucks, the IRD is incompetent, there is strong anti-intellectualism, and there are very few opportunities for… anything. I love the idea of living in NZ, but the reality is not good (but better than SE Asia and China).

34. New Zealand sounds like a shithole sucks though cuase its so damn beautiful

35. Jesus Christ I thought it was just me. Came to New Z Oct 24th and it has been utter misery. I had been living in Little Rock Arkansas then I met a Kiwi, knocked her up, got married, and I am here coz she didn’t want to live/ raise our son in Arkansas. I was extremely apprehensive about leaving Arkansas, and it turns out that apprehension was justified. I am now zonked out on anti depressants to get through the day. That is one of the few good things about NZ( healthcare) but it is like giving free healthcare to a prisoner with a life sentence-just prolonging the misery. There is an area of town in Little Rock called “the heights” it is where all the yuppies and hipsters live, Auckland to me is one big “heights”. The amount of fucking douchebag hipsters and yuppies is ridiculous. The only relief I get is when I am in South Auckland. I don’t know why the women here would cheat on their mates, coz the guy she is fucking looks like the guy waiting at home. The people I miss the most are black people, I lived in a city with a 45% African American population, living here is like losing your best friend everyday. I know some are saying there are black people in NZ….no there ain’t- I was at a major dept store downtown and they were selling minstrel dolls and “mammy” figurines if there were black people here that place would be out of business one way or another.
    What is up with the cost of living over here?! Can anybody get ahead over here?! Owning and maintaining a car can bankrupt you! The apartments here are horrendous-lousy insulation and mildew infested but ridiculously expensive. Geez as I am typing this a commercial for Tom Green’s show is on tv-what is this 1999? Who are they going to get next? Sinbad?!?! I wonder if I can do something that will get me deported, at least that way to my family it will look like I am being forced to leave.

    Thank you for providing me a place to vent,
    Cheers,
    Exiled in Auckland.

    • ” like giving free healthcare to a prisoner with a life sentence-just prolonging the misery” right on the money, Razorback. I do not have any clue why Kiwis think New Zealand is this amazing place for “families”. My family’s life was ruined by a move to New Zealand, instigated by my spouse. We moved to a rural area. No, it was not like nice rural areas in the U.S., either. It was just weird and feral. No other word for it. A few more years of grind, and I hope we can put the entire nasty little country behind us for good..Auckland has its share of annoying, pretentious people, like the Heights. You must have moved to Ponsonby, or a similar area. South Auckland is the place for warmth and grittiness, but the crime is not good if you have children, and the school districts, not good.. Auckland is its own little urban environment, and different from the rest of New Zealand. I doubt you would find what you are looking for anywhere in New Zealand. There is no equivalent to the Delta area and no equivalent to the mountainous NW either, and South Auckland is no genuine substitute for the subculture you miss in LR.. i know too many migrants who hole up in their moldy cold homes and drink in front of a screen. That is not a “life”.

    • Hello razorback,
      Loved reading your message. I have been out of NZ for 22 years – I was born there. For years I have wanted to return home – I live in London. You have just reminded me why I left Auckland in the first place. I think I am better off here, where I can escape to Italy, France and Spain on a fairly regular basis. Good luck with getting back to Arkansas.
      And Jane, I hope you get that 20 grand together and pronto!

36. And listen to people who spout clichés? yeah right. Tick Tock get working on that exit plan before your mind turns to mush as well.

37. How much money do I need saved too move there I’m coming from the us Im not wealthy but would rather but doing just as bad off somewhere that’s not trying become a socialist country . Is it easy to fine work right away I am a apartment maintenance man and a factory worker. Where is the best place to try and settle into?

    • New Zealand is a socialist leaning country. If that’s what you dislike about your home, NZ is not going to be a match for you. That’s even before you start looking at the visa requirements.

      • Is it easy to fine work right away I am a apartment maintenance man and a factory worker.
        Whatever you do in NZ, get your qualifications sorted and recognised right quick AND be prepared to undercut (through price and delivery time) your competition.
        I remember my landlords (PGP – pretty good people, immigrants themselves) having to look around for 3 MONTHS (even up until I moved on from that house) … to find someone to clean their OVEN.
        So many people they contacted – WERE NOT INTERESTED to do the work! And even those they did contact who were interested – DIDN’T SHOW UP 😡

38. New Zealand is no longer the land of “Milk and Honey” more like the land of ” Rancid Milk & No Money” I came back to NZ 6 months ago from being abroad for approx 16 years due to the death of my spouse, wish I had moved anywhere else but my home, no jobs to be had, terrible poverty, no one hires woman over 50 yet you are expected to apply for and attened school to learn what you already know ( at the taxpayers expense ) to be on a widows benefit even though your chances of being hired are slim to none, thanks to all the dole bludgers of the past it has ruined it for the folks who really need financial help, most folks I see either have PLENTY or NOTHING and there is no inbetween !!! do not come to New Zealand unless you plan to ride the waves of extreme poverty and nothingness that is the polar opposite of what it projects itself to be which is a total lie !! UNLESS YOU ARE ROLLING ON DOUGH !!

39. Another day in Auckland.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2JswrUYA-Y

40. I am so glad to be home now where I can buy 3 capsicums for one US dollar. Food being that expensive in a country with a decent climate and so many poor people – what a crime

41. Don’t listen to talkback on the radio – it will drive you nuts and will explain why kiwis are so ripped off for everything here. In a recent poll they voted for a new tax to be added to “unhealthy food”(when food is all taxed at 15% anyway) and they don’t want the labour/greens new scheme to lower the electricity prices as John key the prime minister said that this would dicourage competition. Well I say who cares as long as its cheaper. There are some really nieve people living in Nz that are so easy for the corporates to walk all over.

42. As someone that has lived in NZ for all 20 years of their life I obviously can’t comment on most of these things because I have merely travelled to other countries and not lived there and therefore have no comparisons. One thing I would like to know (from expats living in NZ or Kiwis) is whether, like me, they have found that Kiwis seem to be conservative & modest to a level that is almost painful. So many Kiwis seem to have a strange mentality that less is more and that instead of trying to consistently better themselves, they are quite content with having just enough.
    I see many comments about a large amount of the population being rednecks, which I can definitely see some truth in. If people are coming to NZ, they should really only move to a suburb close to the inner-city of Auckland – as pretty much everywhere else is a place they will deem to be 100% inhabited by rednecks. Funnily enough people from most parts in NZ hate people from Aucklanders anyway!
    Needless to say I plan on trying to make my way to the USA as soon as I finish Uni or can properly do so, and while there are opportunities here, they just don’t seem to be going places.

    • The USA is far from perfect, but it is diverse and rewards individualism. After many years of living in New Zealand, I realise that Kiwis do not have an individual identity despite all the false bravado. The kiwi mind is very much a collective product, which makes it so easy for you to be preprogrammed, controlled, and easily manipulated.

      I wish you all the best, and hope you can open your mind enough to embrace the shift in consciousness that you will experience once you leave.

      • Thanks Calvin.
        The lack of motivation for people to thrive and succeed is what I would almost consider to be a poor peoples country. The people of low socio-economic backgrounds don’t seem to bother trying to better themselves and instead just take potshots at the successful individuals.
        Another thing I forgot to add was what I consider to be the biggest culture (of lack thereof) for anyone coming to NZ. Overseas everyone is so polite, but in NZ there is no sugar-coating on anything whatsoever. I would expect that quite a few of the people that do indeed move to NZ will consider Kiwis to be rude rather than realise that everything everyone says is straight to the point, no fooling around.
        In regards to the Labour/Green power scheme mentioned by jo below – a proposed drop in power prices by $300 a year ($25 a month or $6.25 a week) is absolutely meaningless and certainly won’t be getting my vote. What the hell is $6.25 a week going to buy you?

        • Hi Grant – yes you have a good point in regards to the electricity BUT if the cartel is allowed to continue in Nz, what will the price be for electricity in say 2 years? In 5 years? Also you are forgetting that to an old person who can’t afford to turn the heater on in winter, $6.25 is quite a bit.

43. I am a kiwi who has spent most of her adult life living and travelling abroad. A lot of the social issues discussed here are from my experience a worldwide phenomenon which is probably why I have yet to find a place that I could actually settle. Cliques, racism, dishonesty, nastiness – sorry people I have yet to visit a place without them and NZ doesn’t reach the worst of my list for any of these. Similarly however, I have yet to visit a place without wonderful people. Would I live in NZ again? Personally, no, I love travelling too much, and English speaking countries bore me. Is it the right place for everyone? No. Just like any other country, city, culture it won’t suit everyone. It’s beautiful but cold. It’s green but if you like the city life and culture, it has nothing to hold you. It’s expensive, so unless you have a really good job lined up, it could be difficult. I have a lot of friends who have moved from other countries to NZ. Some love it, some tolerate it, some are bored, some struggle, some hate it, and some are thriving. Just like people I’ve met in every other country I’ve visited.

    • You are equivocating through a distorted lens. New Zealand seems not so bad to you because you are a native and a product of its culture. As one commenter has already pointed out, it’s easy to make excuses if you don’t have to live here.

      • I went back and lived there for 5-6 years before leaving again near the end of last year. I’ve lived in Asia (Japan and Malaysia) The middle east (Saudi) and the americas (the US and Mexico) I’ve also travelled extensively in Europe and the pacific as well as the regions already mentioned. Please do not assume my level of experience or filtering just because I can see both positives and negatives. My point is everyone’s experience is different. Yes, I am a product of my culture as quite obviously then you are of yours – all our lenses are distorted. One thing that used to irk me in Japan was people who only saw the country negatively and yet continued to live there for years and years. At least I have a balanced lens! With the exception of one country I have enjoyed every country I have visited – and I was aware that the one I didn’t enjoy had more to do with circumstance and bad luck. I didn’t blame the entire country and all its residents.

        • I’d also like to add that when I talk about people I’ve met having these same experiences and range of feelings about a country, I am including people I know in your country (USA), experiences I had there, and things I saw happen there. However, again, I also met some wonderful people and have some great memories.

44. I’ll put something up the Government in New Zealand do not want people to find out,Pedophiles are a PROTECTED SPECIES in New Zealand:

    http://nzconservative.blogspot.co.nz/2013/04/secular-system-very-keen-on-hiding.html

    • Oh great. Now we can expect pedophiles to immigrate here.

      • There are quite a few here already, home grown.

45. Even Charles Darwin had reservations

    “I believe we were all glad to leave New Zealand; it is not a pleasant place; amongst the natives there is absent that charming simplicity which is found at Tahiti; & of the English the greater part are the very refuse of Society”

    Charles Darwin, Beagle Diary 30th December 1835

    • As a minor student of NZ history 1835 was a very savage time. There was no infrastructure or nation of any description. Tribal warfare was epidemic and the few western people were largely made up of whalers and s and other merchant mariners, escaped convicts, missionaries and a very few general settlers. Around this time a collective of northern chiefs petitioned the king of England to extend protection to ‘New Zealand’ This was answered by the British government sending representative who tried vainly to keep the peace. An attempt at Federation failed utterly due to the inability of the member tribes to keep any degree of cohesion. There was no law let alone order. Britain annexed the country by treaty 5 years later.

46. I wonder if my recent bad experience with the CEO of a young start up company is a snapshot of what New Zealand is about. If it is, then New Zealand is a sad place for working professionals.

    I was seeking employment with this young start up company in Auckland as the product that they are making is relatively new in the the world’s market so the job should be interesting and challenging. I am not residing in New Zealand or Australia but I possess Australian’s permanent residency status.

    The interview went well although the process is a long one stretching over three separate rounds and six interviewers, including the CEO at the very end. I must have performed well during the interviews and I was offered a conditional job offer. The base salary fell short of my minimum expectation. My minimum expectation would result in me taking home 32% less every year from my current job. I set a minimum so that I can be able to maintain a certain level of quality of life for my family if I chose to relocate to Auckland for this job.

    As the job offer was conditional (conditions set by the offering company) therefore not legally binding, I accepted the conditional job offer and express my willingness to join the company if they were to meet my salary expectations. I had communicated my salary expectation right upfront in the first interview and also to subsequent communications with the company.

    The representative from the company expressed no willingness to negotiate on the salary package and therefore on advice from my wife (she is rightly worried about the drop in living standards if I were to accept the job), I politely rejected the conditional job offer at the earliest possible (before the firm and unconditional offer and employment contract were made) and wish them well and success in filling the position through email on a Saturday.

    I did not receive a reply to my email on Monday so I tried a couple of calls on Tuesday, hoping to personally inform the hiring manager of the decision so that they can re-starting the hiring process on other candidate but I couldn’t reach him. I called again on Wednesday and the hiring manager picked up the phone and nonchalantly said that the company had move on without informing me.

    Knowing that there could be staff financing limitations for a young start company, I wrote an email to the CEO giving him some polite and friendly feedback on the need to compete in remuneration terms for proven talents worldwide. Hoping that my friendly feedback and help him attract and retain good people for this company. As a manager myself, I am facing the same competition for talents from where I am based.

    To my horror, the CEO replied with malice and by questioning my honesty, credibility and integrity.

    My dealings with the company was completely honest and aboveboard and not accepting their job offer is simply a case of us not being able to conclude on salary negotiation. There is absolutely no need to launch personal assault on a candidate’s integrity just because the company couldn’t or wouldn’t want to pay a certain amount for the services of a professional.

    Is is how some New Zealander see themselves, their country and their companies as some kind of best in the world and that anyone who refuses to join them have characters flaws and anyone who provide kind and honest feedback on their hiring processes as being dishonest and lacking in integrity?

47. How does working in Perth mean you’re “working together to make a better country” in New Zealand?

    There are some contradictions in your comments. For example; on one hand you’re moving back to New Zealand to feel that sense of belonging, on the other you say it is a lonely place and secluded.

    How do YOU plan to make a difference in New Zealand, when by your own admission, you’re likely to “work your arse off” everyday because struggle is what gives you purpose? Does constant struggle ALLOW time for purpose, or is it just a lifetime of hard graft for the sake of some higher enlightenment?

    What about THE LIFESTYLE?

    Be honest, to yourself at least, about your reasons for returning.

48. Yes Im a Kiwi returning to nz from Perth. I am aware that there are less opportunites, its cold, its lonely, the housing is sh#te, but I have to be honest. NZ is home. We forget that there is more to living than just stuff. There is a place we belong, where our family is, where we stand. My soul is intrinsically wrapped up in nz and its energy. Life was always a struggle there, and its taken me 10 years to make that decision, and yes I am doing it with my eyes wide open. Just because there is more work, and more men, and more stuff here doesnt mean that you will be happy. Happiness quotient is something closely related to belonging. I dunno, maybe call me in two years, my teeth might have fallen out and ill be an old hag, or perhaps, with a bit of motivation, the fact that we have access to the internet, and international sales, that I might have built a business a home and a family. Yes there is racsism here, it needs to be videoed and shown on tv. shed some light on it. people will change with time, remember kiwis are secluded, so of course they get some dumb ideas about other cultures. its up to all of us to work together to make a better country. I cant help but feel that some of you dudes have fallen into a really negative trap. perhaps you could try to make a difference, one little difference to make someone elses day better. I see people getting off their arses and working their arses off everyday in nz because they care and because it gives them purpose. if there was no struggle then what would be the point of being here on earth? we are all capable of greatness, wherever we are in the world. Its who you are being while your are doing what your doing.

49. I am a kiwi and my wife is American. We have been living back in New Zealand for 2 years. The first year was a complete struggle. Both financially and culturally. However, overtime, things have got easier. I have friends from countries all over the world contact me asking for information about moving to New Zealand. I make a conscious effort to tell them to think long and hard before making the trip over. Just last week, I had friends visit from America. They came to New Zealand to have their honeymoon and stayed with us in Auckland for a night before flying back to the States. I took them to Auckland city to show them the new water front before taking them to Ponsonby for a beer at the Belgium beer café. For those of you who are not familiar with Auckland, Ponsonby is an up market area on the fringe of the city. Upon leaving the café, we decided to get some ice cream. Whilst waiting to cross the road at the traffic lights., we could hear someone behind us mocking the American accent. We turned around to see a well dressed man mimicking my American friends. We weren’t sure if he was joking at first but then he told them to f**** off back to America. He continued to throw insults at them whilst we tried to walk away. His last parting shot of “you F****** are not welcome” summed up his impression of foreigners. About 2 months prior, I was on Queen Street in central Auckland with clients. The clients were from Europe. Around 7:30 pm, they were attacked by a guy who also told them to f**** off back to where you come from. The saddest part to the story is that I get treated so well in the USA and other countries because I am a kiwi. If only these people could realise how important tourists are to our economy and how their actions are harming our country. In conclusion, don’t fall for the ‘safe’ tag New Zealand carries. It is not as welcoming and as safe as you think.

    • I am an East Indian from America and living here is like an American Jew living in Tehran-I get hated on twice. I lived in the deep south for 15 years (Arkansas) and the people made me feel at home from day 1, even right after 9/11 with my Muslim sounding name. A couple years after I arrived in Arkansas, a “redneck” sort of man asked me where I was from, and how long I had been in Arkansas after I told him he replied, ” Dat long, sheet you Arkansan now boy”. I could live in NZ for 50 years and I would never been considered a Kiwi.

    • http://www.expatexposed.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=13966
      “accent rage”

    • That’s interesting, when I was living in the UK we always treated Kiwi’s in a very friendly way and expected the same when I moved over here. Nine times out of ten, all I have ever get from kiwi’s is abuse. I was born in Liverpool and when I was working in London, as you can guess, I took an awful lot of abuse too, until I took elocution lessons, yes all you cockney’s can laugh but it worked, acceptance and a bloody good salary to boot. I’ve been here in NZ for 14 years and speak quite good kiwi and on the whole I get along fine with people, until I slip up with one syllable or colloquialism and it’s “Oh! how long have you been over here?” and then the abuse starts.
      When you first move over, you don’t even know they are abusing or or undermining you, they are quite sly. They are often are very nice to your face and talk about you behind your back. Oh! nothing new there you say, it happen’s everywhere. Well your right it does, but not with the prevalence and growing nastiness that it does here. They keep going till your forced out, it really is not nice. I’d rather put up with owning an expensive holiday home in North Wales than here 🙂
      I’m a highly skilled and experienced embedded systems engineer and managed to get a job when I first came over. It just happened that I was the only person in the whole country that had experience of this particular type of system. They had developed this system in NZ/ozzie and it had about 12 faults their large petrochemical client had wanted fixing for 7 years, yes 7 years! The guy’s who had built it had skipped off somewhere and no one here could sort it. In I come, spend 18 months fixing that system and another one they also couldn’t fix and as soon as I had finished sorting them, they made me redundant. When I cried foul, they came to the table and offered me a different job on $20,000 less. Of course I just couldn’t stop the words “why don’t you f***-off from flowing from my mouth. My bad, as I haven’t been able to find work here since, 7 years at uni, 10 years working for world class companies in Europe, 18 months work in NZ sorting their crap and suddenly I’m 10 years unemployable. It seems I made a very large stuff up.

50. Guys! I can’t believe the awful experiences so many people have had over in NZ. You’ve got to make these huge life-changing moves with your eyes open. Yes, it’s a beautiful country, but it doesn’t have the same depth of history that you might get elsewhere in the world. You will have to work hard to make a crust and you may have to work longer and harder than you would elsewhere e.g. Australia. The people can be stand-offish, insular and reserved at times – they are after all largely British people transplanted to the other side of the world. Don’t start whingeing to the locals that you can’t find milk chocolate Hobnobs and Marmite down at the local supermarket. In fact, don’t whinge to the locals about anything. There’s nothing more likely to turn them against you than you listing a series of bitches and gripes about their country. This goes for Australia too. Try feigning an interest in rugby union. Also, if you don’t love the great outdoors, this may not be the country for you. Just remember you’ve moved to a foreign country miles from anywhere, in many ways you’re starting from the bottom again, it won’t be easy, there will be trials along the way, you won’t be white water rafting and bungy jumping every day, but ultimately I can think of few nicer places I’d want to live.
    Me? I’m biased – I married a Kiwi and was welcomed with open arms by her wonderful family. However, we did also find it easier to get employment in Australia. I’d happily go back to NZ to live – even though I can’t stand Rugby.

    • However, we did also find it easier to get employment in Australia. I’d happily go back to NZ to live – even though I can’t stand Rugby.
      Sounds like a repeat of that trope “New Zealand is great … that’s why I live overseas”.

      • Good point, P Ray. When I lived in the States, a Kiwi friend advised how superior the quality of life is in New Zealand, and how he will go back someday and live in a caravan. To him nearly everything in NZ was better than elsewhere – the education, the environment, etc. And where does he live? He has lived in the US since the 1981, Where did his children grow up and get educated? In the US, Where do his children live now that they’re grown? In Europe. Says it all, really, By the way, he is a highly successful academic who could work in NZ if he desired, so it is not job opportunities that keep him away.

      • Fair call P Ray. My own inability to settle in NZ was more down to my qualifications (more suited in to industries that employ few peole in NZ) and lack of work experience at the time, rather than a problem with the people and culture of NZ. The people on here seem to boil down roughly to 2 groups: whingeing poms and asians/non-whites. I don’t have a great deal of sympathy for the majority of the poms. You need to do your homework before you move to the other side of the world – and, yes, I include myself in there as well. Don’t believe all the bullshit and hype – it’s not the promised land, but it is a nice country with (mostly) nice people in it. I do have some sympathy for the non-whites who have gone to NZ and encountered various racist attitudes from the Kiwis. Like I say above, they are largely of British descent and have many of the admirable qualities of the British, but also a some of the less admirable ones as well e.g. racism/xenophobia.

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