297 thoughts on “An American’s Take On “Rip-Off New Zealand””

1. I would suggest you read the Migrant Tales. Those will get you an unmatched insight into what New Zealand is like and you will find answers to most of your questions. You could even use the search function and locate things relating to key words such as kids, careers, etc.

   With all due respect, you come across as rather lazy. The information you seek is easily available throughout this site, yet you seem to want to have someone to do the research for you. This type of indolence and inability to do things for oneself is classic Kiwi, so perhaps the place might actually be a good fit. If you belong to the squeezed middle class of the US, then spending a fortune relocating your family to New Zealand for two years will cause significant financial harm.

   My suggestion is to read the Migrant Tales. Additionally, consider that if New Zealand is so great, then why do 20% of Kiwis (usually the best-educated, hardest working, most intelligent and skilled) live abroad. Also, consider why migrant turnover is so high in New Zealand. Many migrants cannot wait to get the New Zealand passport and then go to Australia, which is why the New Zealand government changed the residency requirement from three to five years.

   • Mamacheeta, I suggest you seriously consider what SafeFrom has said. Think. There must be a reason for the low population. Many people are looking for a place as you describe. If New Zealand really was as it sells itself, don’t you suppose it would have filled up already? That there would be long waiting lists of people wanting to join up? Instead, NZ selling itself very aggressively as an immigration destination to make up the numbers. A LOT of people leave.

     Anyway, just wanted to let you know, dryers aren’t all that common. White goods (and most everything else) are much more expensive in NZ than the US. I suggest, more than anything else, you do research on the quality of the housing. You might have gathered that housing is horrendously expensive, but what is as important is researching what you get for your money. Research the damp and mold problems, the interior temperatures of the average house, how difficult they are to heat, how much it costs to heat them even to a bare minimum, the fact that rentals often have little or no heat, that your belongings will get ruined by the mold. Really, do it thoroughly before you commit. And always remember to look at websites that don’t have an interest in enticing you to move to New Zealand.

     I would also consider the country of origin of the so-called satisfied emigrants. People from different countries have different expectations, depending on the living conditions of their own home. I find it amazing that someone living in the US, with its large expanses of open space, national and state parks, and enormous opportunities to enjoy the great outdoors, should look to NZ. It probably has less open space than much of North America, unless you want to explore the great cow pastures, which are increasing at an alarming rate. I was an avid hiker and amateur naturalist in the States. I find NZ slightly disappointing in this regard, especially living in Auckland. The NZ bush is sadly lacking in wildlife, relatively. There are interesting trees and such, but when you become more familiar with the native flora, you realize NZ has destroyed much of that, so it’s sad in a way. To live in Auckland you have to really, really love beaches. I know from experience that children soon grow bored with beaches if you take them everyday. There has to be more.

     Also, you’re not going to be finding too many houses with nice big backyards in Auckland, Christchurch or Wellington. Most people don’t have big sections, and anyway, the houses with large sections are even more expensive, of course. People in the cities live very closed together, not spread out like the suburbs of the North East of the US that I was familiar with.

     Some people say that NZ is a great place if you have money. I haven’t found it to be true. We have more than enough money to travel throughout NZ, take trips abroad, and enough money to live in a warm, dry, extremely well insulated home (a rarity in NZ). We have enough money to eat out frequently, and save well for retirement. Yet we cannot wait to leave. We have already built a home in the States and are making the transition. All the money in the world isn’t going to change the fact that NZ is a somewhat backward, remote, expensive, rugby-obsessed country that’s been absurdly hyped-up to keep the punters coming in through the revolving door of its borders.

     The final straw for us was the birth of our child. My New Zealand born husband would not even consider that our offspring should be raised in NZ, with its culture of binge-drinking, sports over academics, bullying, and openly racist populace.

     • You should come, if you’re looking for an adventure and don’t mind losing your shirt. But do as much research as possible before you do.

     • [Deleted – ‘other places’ read the comments guidelines. Admin]

2. You’re going to do it anyway, what you want is validation and re-assurance and sugar glazing. Sorry mamacheeta but even though I think NZ sucks, here’s my best advice to someone moving there from the US: DON’T DO IT. Not if you’ve got kids, don’t do that to them.

   Reading one thread isn’t good enough, there are plenty of threads on here about New Zealand screwing up kid’s lives through bullying, its brutal culture, tall poppy syndrome, rampant child abuse, poverty, crime etc. you need to do your research more thoroughly.

   Admit it, this move is for you and not your kids. They’re just your excuse for a mid life crisis.

3. There’s a lot of reasons we are considering this move. Personally, it’s what we want.

   I’m thinking/hoping that despite all the bad, that those who have had positive experiences along the way (and I saw them in the thread above) might be willing to offer advice.

   Fine, you can say, “Even thought I think NZ sucks, here’s my best advice to someone moving there from the US,” but I’m looking for someone who can do that in a helpful way.

   I get it. Many people have had horrible experiences there. I just spent an hour reading through this thread, so I get it, loud and clear. But not everyone did. I’m looking for advice from those who want to help out others – maybe with advance notice, those of us preparing to live in NZ can learn from your experiences.

4. To have an adventure, to have more open space, to have a safe place for our boys to run, explore and play. Simply put, we’ve always wanted to live there.

5. Wow, now I’m nervous.

   Our family of four is strongly considering moving to NZ from the US for 2 years, to have an adventure, to have more open space, to have a safe place for our boys to run, explore and play.

   We’ve always lived relatively simply, and are not in it to strike it rich, but we do need to make enough money to pay rent/utilities/transportation, buy food, and save for airfare. We are currently in the squeezed middle class of the US, and are looking for something new. The idea of extended camping – so to speak – is not entirely horrible so long as we don’t freeze in the wind. Although a dishwasher and washer/dryer would be really, really nice.

   What I’m seeking isn’t a list of complaints, but a solid list of “here’s the best advice to prepare to move to NZ from the US” with regard to what to bring/what to leave behind, the best industries to look into for decent jobs, what did you find the most useful for your transition to NZ from the US?

   Socially, politically, economically, I’m not expecting NZ to be similar to the US because every country has it’s own unique good/bad/other qualities to it. That’s part of living abroad. It is good to know that it’s so expensive, though! Maybe I need to plan on shipping over more than I had originally planned?

   I’d appreciate the good, the positive, the reports from those who planned, prepared and knew what to expect. Thank you.

6. I have to say after reading this it’s a transparent attempt to discourage people from overseas from looking to move to New Zeeland.

   Yes, you naysayers are that transparent. You’d been better off keeping your mouths shut.

7. While much of what you say is true, particularly the housing situation and the tall poppy syndrome, I have a few gripes with this borderline rant. Expecting the same power sockets in a different country is exactly the shortsighted arrogant sort of thing Americans say that gives them a bad reputation overseas. The world and it’s technology is not birthed from the United States. Also… where are you buying your electronics? I’m keen to know because last I checked I purchased stuff made in Japan & Korea at very competitive prices. Good quality stuff too. Kids mattresses made of foam? You shopping exclusively at the warehouse? Hell even they have some decent wares. This article is written in the same way I would write about the states having only lived in Alabama and without any local guidance.

   • “Kids mattresses made of foam? You shopping exclusively at the warehouse? Hell even they have some decent wares.”

     You see what you did there?

   • With all due respect, if you travelled around the world you would realise that the US is not the pinnacle of advancement when it comes to electric infrastructure. Much of the power distribution occurs over wooden poles above ground making it vulnerable to weather related problems whereas the electric distribution elsewhere is underground.

     Have you ever been to stores in another country to compare the retail scene? A Mexican person I met in New Zealand remarked that the items at the Warehouse were of much lower quality than even Wal-Mart.

     I am not a materialist, but I do want the few things I buy to be of quality and I am even happy to pay a high price for it. New Zealand retail scene is Switzerland prices at sub-Saharan African quality. Actually, one has better shopping choices in sub-Saharan Africa.

     • Ultimately, it makes more sense to buy higher-quality goods and have them last. Rather than serially buy lower-quality and have them fall apart. So when migrants complain about no shopping, it is not because we are materialistic. It is because we just want value for our money, and NOT to be wasteful. It’s only good sense.

8. First of all you are an idiot for moving to auckland in the first place should of done your research. New zealand isn’t as advanced because it is a very young country we had settlers in the late 1800s and because it is so isolated it meant it was harder to get things to new zealand so we couldn’t advance it as fast compared to other country. but you ignore the fact we have some of the best schooling in the world and considering we are such a young country and have some of the best education that means we are building a bright well educated future for this country. Our dollar is gaining so you all grandpas can complain about the present and the past but you should be looking at the future. People like you are going to be our downfall if you keep thinking about what we don’t have and be grateful for what we do have. Didn’t you ever learn that at kindergarten???

   • Thank you Sarah, that has to be one of the funniest comments we’ve had for a long time at E2NZ.org 😀

     Judging by the high number of spelling and grammatical mistakes, your inconsistent capilisation and your overall misuse of English our readers may arrive at the conclusion that a New Zealand education isn’t as great as you’re led to believe. “Should of” Really? that’s just bad :O.

     Didnt ya never learn propa english @ kindergarten? Never mind, if you don’t dwell on what you don’t have we won’t either.

     NB. You’re banned for your ad hom attack in your opening sentence. Look it up in a dictionary after referring to our comments guidelines.

9. Advanced? You’re talking about a country where a portion of the government still inherit their titles & positions. Not to mention the fast crumbling healthcare system & wages that barely or fail to meet living costs for much of the population. Point me to a country that has fewer social, economic or environmental problems than NZ & perhaps your abundant criticism could be taken seriously.

   • Are you referring to the upper house of parliament in Britain – one of the oldest living democracies in the world?

     Think of how NZ would benefit from the moderating effect of higher layer of parliament not beholden to the simple span of a single term: no more laws passed under urgency and less chance for Hollywood to dictate workplace legislation and social policy.

     Having a one tier parliament simply broadens and entrenches the opportunity for nepotism and cronyism.

10. Having an OE is a long established Kiwi tradition &, for the most part, they return home hopefully having had some awesome experiences but with a greater appreciation of NZ. I hope my kids go out & experience other countries so they can come back & feel the same way. I’m not saying NZ is perfect but it has a lot going for it in comparison to the huge social & economic issues other countries are facing (causing). Having lived in the UK for a few years now I can certainly say that the cost of living here is significantly higher than NZ, people are far less friendly, there is a higher crime rate, higher taxes, more poverty, hopeless healthcare, terrible standards of education, impossibly competitive job market, low salaries & ingrained racism. Friends have told me similar things about living in the US. Granted NZ certainly can’t compete with the UK in terms of choices for consumers or the options for holidays but you’d expect that with 63 million people & the UK’s proximity to Europe & America. It seems that this site’s purpose is to criticise NZ, how very negative & narrow minded. I’d be interested to know if admin has ever lived overseas? Where is it that you’ve been that makes NZ seem so terrible?

    • How long since you left NZ sstick?

      A lot of your questions would be answered if you’d taken the time to read our What they say about E2NZ.org and Introduction pages.

      We’ve heard it said a lot of times that New Zealand is a country that looks better the further away one is from it. Simple, but true. Good luck with settling back in. You may want to prepare yourself for reverse culture shock after living in such an advanced country for so long, you may even start to see it as a migrant sees it.

11. I currently live in the UK, have travelled extensively & have no doubt I will head home to NZ. It is the most beautiful country in the world. The high cost of living is what you have to pay to live in such a sparcely populated country. The tiny population is one of the many things that keeps NZ amazing! It’s isolated pacific location will hopefully keep it this way while other countries around the world are experiencing a population explosion they don’t have the resources to cope with. I will certainly raise my kids there as it is safe & the climate, landscape & people are, for the most part, lovely. All countries have problems. From what I’ve seen overseas NZ’s are relatively few. Perhaps kiwis having a ‘lack of ambition’ is an indication that they they are generally happy with what they’ve got?? If that is the case then how wonderful.

    • If you think that about New Zealand you’ve not travelled as extensively as you think you have.

      Good luck raising your kids there, no doubt they’ll do the same as you when they reach adulthood – leave.

12. You cannot live else where if you don’t have the money for travel, living expenses etc. Also if you are low payed and have a child (like me) it is even harder to save money especially with rent, food and everything else being so expensive.

13. I was born and bred here. never lived in another country. Yes a lot of what you say is true, although one sided. I respect that, but don’t put us down, we do what we must, and the best way to cope is ‘relax’. Take it easy lifes too short for hassles

    • Don’t you think that’s passive at best, defeatist at worst. Have you ever thought about living somewhere else?

    • she means, “relax, after enough drinks and some weed, this 4-foot tire iron up your bum won’t hurt at all”. That’s New Zealand!

14. My fiance and I are thinking of possibly taking a year off from the states and move to NZ for an adventurous year after we get married this June. After reading this article I am feeling a bit nervous. We want to work and travel on the south island. He has lived there before, about 5-6 years ago, and he has convinced me that it’s a great way to spend a year together while taking a step back from the ‘rat race’ we feel in the USA. Any thoughts? Advice? We are not planning to get ‘career’ jobs. Just things to get by and stay even, not go there to get ahead.

    • If you are only staying a year and have no desire to get ahead, you will probably do just fine. He is already familiar with it. Mind you, women tend to like it less than men do because of the expensiveness of things we consider normal (shampoo, climate control, etc.). If you can picture yourself on an extended camping adventure, and don’t expect to come out of it with any money left to your name but some beautiful photos, you’ll love it. We moved there with an expectation that we’d be avoiding a rat race, but it turned out that life was so hard there (everything incredibly expensive, and there was a pettiness and viciousness/readiness to exploit regarding money, because no one had any and everyone needed it, and Americans are perceived as “having too much of it”) that we weren’t actually avoiding a rat race. Or rather, we had moved from a place where everyone’s working hard to stay competitive and create a comfortable life for themselves to a place where everyone wants to pick your pocket. It was like going to an Anglo Third World country, where you’re viewed as fat cat Yankees and “have it to spare”, so be prepared for the “Migrant surcharge” when trying to buy things. You might consider WWOOFing.After reading this first – http://www.expatexposed.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=33302

      • Apart from english being the lingua franca in NZ there will be less and less “Anglo” in NZ in the future demographically. What always strikes me is that in all the media from and about NZ you can only see english names. Where the hell are all those immigrant names , korean chinese , german , etc….never ever see them.Oh right, of course , they never got a chance with their inferior educations , wondering how they complied with entry requirements in the first place . Oh no, actually they did not need them , what they did need was their money to uphold and nurture their frail real estate Ponzi scheme.It is also a nuisance to be confronted with possible alterations in your workflow by those silly newbees , better stick amongs each other and thwart any improvement. Oh no , it cannot be an improvement , it was already perfect according to ” she’ll be right” worldviews.

15. Wow. So much negativity. I’m considering migrating to New Zealand (Wellington) in March this year. To be honest, after reading this forum, I’m having serious doubts. Were there any good points to living in NZ?

    • The scenery, low population?

      What do our readers think?

      • NZ is a country with many problems and small mindedness but also a country of great beauty and peace. We have decided to leave for Australia but going with heavy hearts and sadness.

        • That must’ve been a difficult decision to make Michelle. You’re from Africa aren’t you many years ago, what made you decide on New Zealand originally and not Australia? How have the countries changed in the last decade or so?

      • The scenery is fantastic. You can’t eat it and it can’t heat you, though. That’s about it. The fact that the beaches aren’t built-up with condos etc. That is nice too. Though you can find those in other countries. Not every beachline is built up, after all! Seriously, some people do well enough in New Zealand. I would love to see a quiz-type instrument on here (a serious one, not a biased one) that would allow people to select themselves out as unsuitable migrants beforehand.

        • Still wanting to do this! But when I get a break from work. Any other takers with this project?

16. Air New Zealand has been receiving its share of complaints lately. http://www.airlinequality.com/Forum/air_nz.htm

17. It’s bad enough to be the object of brainwashing attempts by people who will not accept that your New Zealand living experience is sub-par. Imagine being sucked into a cult within a cult.

18. I will also include that it happened to my father,my father has now lost touch with reality after he allowed a new age cult in Wellington to convert him,he has basically shut communication with my mum and his own family and relatives in Hong Kong,the warning is if you let the cults in New Zealand gain access to any of your parents or family,consider it GAME OVER,because the first moment the cult brainwashes its going to be hell in a handbasket.I watched it happen to my father and also I suggest people visit http://www.cults.co.nz there are over 2,000 cults in New Zealand that are dedicated to brainwashing,to the migrants who are married or wanting to leave New Zealand,make sure the cults do not gain access to your family or children

    I hope E2NZ can do a small posting on cults in New Zealand as they are pretty dangerous as well

    • Don,t forget to mention the anglican and catholic cults aswell..

19. Over in Wellington where I live there are numerous cults and if anyone wants to know,the can even brainwash people into losing their touch with reality and in the end the results are not pretty,I have heard that New Zealand has cult mentality too

20. I am now wondering how to get my IT Degrees,I would love to be a Bachelor in IT

21. I know lots of cults have brewed out in Wellington,they make people lose touch with reality

22. SafefromNewZealand,this is why I have decided to leave New Zealand for good within 5-7 years,my dad and my mum have basically shunned communication with their family or extended family and even their brothers and sisters who live in Hong Kong and this is why I decided to go to Japan with a stopover in Hong Kong so I could alert my own family what was happening in New Zealand,if I stayed anymore longer in New Zealand I could end up like my parents,thats why I decided on Japan

    • @MrAlex 5-7 years is too long. Get out sooner. The longer you remain in New Zealand the greater become your opportunity costs on what else you could have been doing in Hong Kong, Japan, Australia, etc. You also end up stuck in New Zealand in a dead end job, which makes it even more difficult to have the right skills that enable you to move easily to another country. Trust me, you do not want to waste a single extra day in New Zealand.

23. Another part of me wanting to leave New Zealand is that my parents have lost touch with reality,this is what happens when people put money or work first,I have noticed that when comparing food prices and cost of living and other costs with other countries,New Zealand seems to be the most expensive,lets take Japan for example,they have 5% GST and New Zealand 15% GST,when I lived in Japan for a month,I found their food was cheaper and also entertainment was also cheaper in Japan,and then transport costs were way cheaper than New Zealand,all I want to say is that it is really easy to lose touch of reality with the outside world if people like my parents decide to put work first because when I try to tell them living overseas is way better than New Zealand,this is why I tend to try to travel a lot because relegating yourself to New Zealand can make people lose touch with the outside world,it can happen to any migrant who puts work first as well

    I hope E2NZ can publish this comment

    • @Mr Alex: You are completely right. The longer you remain in New Zealand, the more you lose touch with reality. I noticed this even happening to me when I was there, but thankfully, I had the ability and means to travel or watch news from international outlets, so I managed to mitigate the effects of the Kiwi Kool Aid.

      New Zealand is a bit of cult and people there lose touch with reality.

      • isolated places and enforced homogeneity of attitude produce that brainwashing effect, don’t they! That’s why cult leaders move out to the middle of nowhere. Less truthiness leaks into their bubble.

24. Yeah so many have been ripped off. . . I know University of the Philippines PHD scientists who have worked as cleaners, AINs, factory workers while their counterparts who went instead to the USA, Canada, and Australia enjoyed respectability. And sometimes it’s so hard to erase the stain that your work in New Zealand has left. Skills have already left in an ever changing work environment. Yeah so go before they consume you!

25. It is unfortunate that the author of this op-ed article had a difficult experience in New Zealand, many of the points raised were not accurate or representative of the situation in New Zealand.
    The author of this article chose to live in West Auckland which is a medium to low socio economic area where housing is at best adequate but not as bad as the author claims.
    The government has been financially assisting home owners to improve their home insulation with low interest loans to install under floor insulation and double glazed windows which has been widely accepted by owners of older homes. People in New Zealand do not live in trailer parks but do have the option of cheap homes that provide accommodation to a minimal standard.
    Due to New Zealand’s geographic isolation from marketplaces primary industry products such as dairy and timber are sold at a discounted rate to offset shipping costs. The returns from those products are sufficient for New Zealand to provide free healthcare, subsidised education, and care for the sick, unemployed and elderly. In some industries due to economy of scale wages are low but more than adequate to live on.
    New Zealanders through necessity are innovators, recently Team New Zealand competed in the America’s Cup in San Francisco where a high level of technical innovation was required to build a competitive yacht to sail against Larry Ellison of Team Oracle. Although we lost that series New Zealand was more than competitive than other international teams from more affluent economies.
    The indigenous people , Tangata Whenua, Maori, are lifting their education and health outcomes to record highs and have turned a corner from being a colonised race to a more self determined race who take their place in the countries economy and social fabric. Native American Indians have visited New Zealand to learn from Maori on how to succeed in a modern world.
    New Zealand is a beautiful country that offers freedom of will and a closeness with nature that is unique in the world. Many North Americans live here and love it. It is still possible to have your little piece of paradise. Please visit our country and make your own observations, you won’t be disappointed.

    • I recall in 2004 there was an outcry in New Zealand because public money was being given to Maori to travel to the US & study hip hop. Seem like a mutually beneficial arrangement?

    • ‘Not typical’ client seeks food parcels’ in today’s Marlborough Express.

      “Alana Jones is not your typical foodbank client.

      Her husband has a good income, she was employed until the birth of her 5-month-old baby and she is not eligible for a benefit.

      But with up to eight mouths to feed, constant rent increases and only about $200 for bills and food each week, she needs help.

      This is the second time in two weeks Jones has visited the Christchurch City Mission for a food parcel.

      Between Jones and her partner they have six children. They live in a “cold, damp” three-bedroom rental in Avondale. Two children have asthma and one has a heart defect.

      She is $25 over the threshold to be eligible for a Housing New Zealand property, and her husband earns “just” too much for them to qualify for a benefit.

      After rent, bills and petrol are paid from her partner’s $700 weekly income and their $420 Working for Families supplement, Jones estimated they had $200 to spend on food “if we’ve got it”.

      Making ends meet was now getting “harder and harder”.

      “We look back at what we used get and you can’t get that any more.

      “We’ve lost internet, phone, TVs – so you can imagine it’s like camping. We can’t afford the bills.”
      http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/9506569/Not-typical-client-seeks-food-parcels

      • Thanks FF, we’ve heard other people say living in New Zealand is like camping but without the warm home to go back to when its over.

      • Yes, BUT thats the problem of having too many children without thinking how expensive it’s going to cost. If one cannot afford to feed & clothe 2 kids then why have 4 more? This is a no brainer that many kiwis do! Just let the govt. tax more from the middle class and put it through the system for those that are baby producing. Making bambinos is the easy part – its who in the long term that ends up paying for it! Its certainly nothing new in regards to having large families in NZ – Afford what you can Pay for!

        • Richard, having kids is expensive no matter where you are in the world.

          The difference is that NZ sells itself as being a great place to raise them.

      • New Zealand was indeed one big camping experience. Indoors and out.With a price tag all out of proportion to a camping trip.

    • I suspect this is a government troll, perhaps from Immigration New Zealand. Fortunately, they are not bright enough to use proxy servers. Go here http://www.ip-adress.com/reverse_ip/ and it should tell you the server they are using. Here is another example of a government Ministry of Propaganda getting found out. http://eqctruths.wordpress.com/2013/08/06/eqc-ministry-of-propaganda-proof/

      • I can assure you that the New Zealand government, or rather, individual New Zealand government agencies have their own “Ministries of Propaganda”. I suspect they monitor and comment on your blog. “Kevin” probably has the intelligence of a bogan staffing a government department, so the incongruities in his arguments are understandable.

        As a fan of George Orwell, I constantly marvel at the amount of newspeak and doublethink that pervades New Zealand. I often wonder whether people genuinely believe this rubbish or whether they simply want to believe things hoping that repeating a lie ad infinitum renders it true. Human beings are exceptionally adept at masking reality or believing what they want to believe. This is perhaps why I enjoy children because many of them have not yet learned that duplicity and mendacity seem to be a necessity in the modern world.

        • My Swiss in-laws remark that Switzerland is the richest country in the world, but also the most expensive. However, they have not lived in New Zealand, the country that offers the least value for money of anywhere I have been! My wife and I did our sums on living in Switzerland compared to New Zealand. As a somewhat anal person with a background in investments, we meticulously keep track of every receipt and categorise it. We have been here for not even two months and we are thrilled to have escaped the incompetence, stupidity, corruption, extortionate living costs, and absence of professional opportunities in New Zealand. My wife is a Kiwi/Swiss who is Swiss citizen by descent and I am an American who moved to New Zealand three years ago after selling my business in the US.

          At any rate, our monthly grocery bill in Switzerland came to slightly less than what we paid monthly in New Zealand! Admittedly, we buy most of our stuff from Aldi, a German discount grocery chain and then we buy some speciality things unavailable at Aldi at either Migros or Co-op, which are admittedly more expensive, but the quality of products would be impossible to find in New Zealand and the price is reasonable based on our earning power here.

          Food is expensive in Switzerland compared to the rest of Europe because the government heavily subsidises farmers, wages are high, and rents for stores are expensive. Swiss farms are small (e.g. a Swiss farmer has a dozen cows compared to a few hundred for a New Zealand farmer) and the government wants to produce as much food domestically as possible should a war or international crisis prevent the importation of food, so it subsidises agriculture. The farming subsidies definitely increase prices, but I agree with the Swiss that having a domestic food supply is a matter of national security.

          Anyway, I paid the following here when I went to the grocery store yesterday.

          CHF 1.15 (NZ $1.55) for a litre of milk
          CHF 5.99 (NZ $8.09) for a kg of honey
          CHF 1.79 (NZ $2.41) for a kg of tangerines
          CHF 1.49 (NZ $2.01) for a kg of bananas

          Incidentally, the supermarket chain Aldi pays its employees a minimum wage of CHF 4,200 in Switzerland or CHF 54,600 (NZ $73,000) per year (You get paid double in December in Switzerland so it is x 13). For employees in Zurich, the minimum salary is CHF 4,600 per month. Here is the German article http://www.gmx.ch/themen/finanzen/wirtschaft/10ax80y-aldi-suisse-erhoeht-grundlohn-2-1-prozent#.hero.Aldi%20Suisse%20erh%C3%B6ht%20Grundlohn.606.329

          The packaged products here are all generally cheaper than in New Zealand, but the products are high quality products that come from Switzerland, Germany, or Italy. It will no doubt amaze Kiwis that Aldi can pay its Swiss employees nearly triple what people earn at Countdown whilst charging lower prices and still manages to turn a tidy profit. Aldi is very efficient German company unlike Kiwi businesses comprised of busybody bogans.

          You will see the supermarket employees in Switzerland work efficiently. If there are no customers, the people at the register stock shelves instead of blabber to each other about their cousin’s crazy girlfriend before they help the customer. Likewise, customers put a 2 Franc coin into the trolleys, which gets returned once they return the cart, so they do not have to pay a guy to push shopping trolleys. Kiwis always express indignation at automation or anything that improves a process believing incorrectly that reducing the need for physical labour produces unemployment. If this were the case, we should abolish machinery and all own little plots of land and start living as subsistence farmers. We would all be busily working acquiring the bare necessities with no time to do anything else.

          You will notice that the job adverts here have very few openings for “managers”. I remember in New Zealand how an office of about twenty-five people was comprised of about sixteen managers and a CEO! At my wife’s company in Switzerland, they hardly have any managers. Not having an inordinate number of managers that “supervise” and produce very little means Swiss companies can pay people good wages. BTW, the median salary in Switzerland is CHF 6,000 per month, or CHF 78,000 per year (NZD $117,000) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_in_Europe_by_monthly_average_wage For illiterates, that means half the people earn more than NZD $117,000 per annum. You can get more detailed information confirming the information salaries for different professions, but you will have to know German, French, or Italian to follow it http://www.lohnrechner.bfs.admin.ch/Pages/SalariumWizard.aspx?lang=de. Many of the Swiss are highly specialised workers. Companies provide good apprenticeships or training programmes that match young people with the skills they need and suitable employment after they complete their training, hence unemployment is about 3% here. The tax system here rewards excellence and business. Cantons compete to lower taxes, so many large multinationals relocate to Switzerland or have a presence here. Businesses also want access to a well-educated and highly skilled workforce, so many have substantial operations here.

          Public transport here is very cheap and of far superior quality to New Zealand. In Wellington, I would have to pay NZ $3.88 per bus trip (with the discount card) for a short ride to work or NZ $155.20 per four weeks/month or NZ $1,862.40. The bus was often late or would break down regularly and I would use my car the rest of the time because the bus in my area only ran during commute times. In Zurich, you pay CHF 729 (NZ $984) per year and you can ride unlimited on all trains, trams, buses, and boats within the city. You literally only have to wait a few minutes at most for a train or tram to come. The trains, buses, and trams are on time 99% of the time, very new, and clean. In Switzerland, you just board the bus or train with your ticket or card. The train crew or transit police occasionally check to see if you have a valid ticket in addition to your Swiss ID or relevant residence permit for foreigners. If you do not have a valid ticket, they issue a huge fine. However, not checking everyone’s ticket every single time makes things more efficient and quicker. I remember how much time ended up wasted for someone fumbling for change etc on the bus or the silliness of having several people standing around to sell train tickets on the Wellington trains. Here, they have machines and people are honest, so they pay. If not, they do end up getting caught during the random spot checks.

          My wife and I have an annual GA card, which allows us unlimited use of all the public transport in Switzerland (trains, buses, trams, boats) for an entire year. She is under 25 and I get the partner discount, so we pay CHF 5,000 (NZ $6,750) for two people. Otherwise, you pay CHF 3,400 (NZ $4,590) for full price for one person. At any rate, we do day trips around Switzerland on weekends, which is awesome. You can go skiing, hiking, visit Christmas markets, go to old cities and towns on weekends in contrast to New Zealand where many people will not drive the car on weekend because the petrol is expensive. We take maximum advantage of the GA card and we have so much to do here compared to New Zealand. We can go to listen to music, watch sports, or check out a ballet.

          As for housing, we move into our new apartment on 1 January. We will pay CHF 1,230 per month (NZ $1,660) for a 78 square metre apartment in a town about twenty-five minutes by train from the centre of Basel. In Wellington, the cost for our 90 square metre house In Broadmeadows was NZ $475 per week or about NZ ($2,058 per month), which takes about the same time to get to by bus or fifteen minutes by car. The difference is that our apartment has actual parquet and tiled floors rather than the unsanitary cheap carpet of New Zealand, a large refrigerator, proper tiles in the bathroom, and a kitchen that would be hard to find in New Zealand. Most importantly, we have central heating, so my poor wife no longer has to freeze in winter.

          Utilities are very cheap here. I have not had an electricity bill, but my wife’s Swiss relatives were horrified at New Zealand prices. Fortunately, Switzerland has nuclear plants, which is taboo amongst anti-science and technology crowd in New Zealand but help produce cheap electricity. Telephone, Internet, and television are very cheap. You can get an entry-level package in Switzerland for CHF 89 per month (NZ $120) that provides you with unlimited calls within Switzerland, unlimited Internet, and 140 channels http://www.swisscom.ch/en/residential/packages/vivo-casa.html.

          Taxes in Switzerland are much lower than in New Zealand and it is hard to compare because different cantons and municipalities tax differently. However, a married man earning CHF 100,000 (NZ $135,000) with two children will pay between 2.6% and 10.7% actual tax rate. http://www.expatica.com/upload/CH_Bonfina_table1.png. I would also add the other compulsory insurances (unemployment insurance, state pension, accident insurance, which add another 10%. This would still bring the actual tax rate to between 12.6% and 20%, which is still much lower than New Zealand. VAT here is 8% compared to 15% GST in New Zealand.

          The social safety net is fabulous. If you become unemployed in Switzerland, you receive 70% of your previous pay capped at about CHF 100,000 per year, meaning you can get up to about CHF 70,000 for one year. However, they cut off your insurance after one year, so there is less of a benefit underclass than in New Zealand.

          You must buy your own private health insurance here. We have the very basic plan, which is about CHF 400 (NZ $540) per month for two people. This covers doctor’s visits, hospitalisation, and free births. If we have surgery, we pay the first CHF 2,500, but no one ends up with a catastrophic medical bill like in the US. The quality is superb. My wife had to have an emergency appendectomy and the quality she received was superb. The hospital food was proper food, unlike the crap made in the US, UK, New Zealand, and other English-speaking countries that do not know the value of a good meal. The medical system is 100% private, except the government will help you pay for your health insurance if you are too poor to afford the premiums. The physicians and nurses were superb. They actually communicate with you and methodically explain what they intend to do. They come across as much sharper than the New Zealand doctors I have met.

          We plan to have children in about two years, so we researched the schools. My wife went to a local Swiss school as part of her job induction. The facilities were superb and teachers receive excellent pay here. The average Swiss person knows 2 or 3 languages well, unlike the average Kiwi who does not even know his mother tongue properly. Switzerland was number one in Europe on the PISA results. The education system is very practical. For example, if you are not academically gifted, you start learning a trade at about 15. The schools segregate older kids according to ability, so there are separate tracks for people and gifted kids do not end up stunted. However, university attendance is not that high, as most people do apprenticeships that match young people with skills and employers. In New Zealand, the focus is on putting everyone through university. Consequently, most kids receive a pseudo intellectual education that is far below the standard of a proper university trajectory, so they do not actually learn anything useful. They also do not learn anything useful if they are less academic. Kids in New Zealand pay high prices for university, but cannot find jobs because they have learned nothing useful in New Zealand’s subpar academic institutions. In Switzerland, tuition is about CHF 1,500 per year (NZ $2,025). However, admission criteria are strict, so only top students go to university. The universities also focus extensively on business, engineering, and hard sciences, unlike New Zealand where the university education lacks rigour and students learn useless things, usually socialism masquerading as academic research in soft disciplines like the humanities. I happen to love the humanities, but they have suffered so much dumbing down.

          Lastly, the professional opportunities are superb. My wife found a job earning triple her New Zealand salary within a week of landing here in late October working for a multinational. She has moved up considerably in terms of pay and responsibility.

          I have not found a job yet, as the job market dies at the end of the year because no one wants to leave their job before the Christmas 13th month pay and companies generally do not recruit. However, I have spoken to a couple people in my profession, who said I should find something easily earning top money early next year. I am not too concerned and I expect to resume a proper career trajectory that took a tumble in New Zealand. While my wife works, I have been organising the new apartment, buying furniture, searching for a job, sorting out all the little logistical things, and posting on E2NZ!

          At any rate, we are thrilled to have left New Zealand and we are not looking back. I just wanted to post this to encourage other migrants that are stuck. I know most other countries do not offer the phenomenal opportunities that Switzerland has, but there is life outside New Zealand. Even an expensive place like Switzerland is still cheaper and provides much better value than New Zealand in so many respects. My wife and I are looking forward to having our children here and raising them in Europe where having an intellect or drive is not a crime. We are also so close to so many places and things, so we will be doing a great deal of travelling.

          My advice to migrants that are stuck in New Zealand is to cut their losses and leave. I also recommend the same to the intelligent and industrious Kiwis to take them and their skills with them overseas. New Zealand is a land of parasites that survives, in part, by lying and fooling credulous migrants and tourists into coming there. The best way to rectify the situation is to rid the parasites of their hosts.

          We are thrilled to have escaped New Zealand and we are both very grateful to the person or people that run E2NZ. I hope that many of you avoid making a colossal mistake by coming to New Zealand.

          • Do you remember the scathing comments about NZ being the “anti-Switzerland” on a certain other forum? Because it was “all generalist” vs “all-specialist” a society? I know which place I’d rather live in.

      • It’s still cheaper to try and hide the internet-exposed downsides of New Zealand rather than actually fix them. No. 8 wire again!

      • New Zealand was up there in quality of life, education, standard of living, healthcare and all with Switzerland and everywhere else. Until 1984, when a series of Governments decided we should follow the dysfunctional USA into cutting taxes, wages and government services

    • Probably better than Kaitaia. The desperation in which people live there has a number of different faces, and Westies are just one of them. I DID live there for 10 years. in NZ. I was anxious to leave after about 2 years. Unfortunately, many of the people who need that weather-upgrading of their homes the most are renters. They own nothing. They couldn’t afford to pay a loan off. The landlords are too cheap to upgrade the shacks they rent out, and wouldn’t improve the homes either. I call them “homes”, but really…too many of them are…they’re the sorts of places that homeLESS squat in over here. The healthcare is better than nothing for the price taxpayers pay, I’ll give them points for that. The education is the same – getting what they pay for, better than Third World. No one gives a crap about their boats. I certainly hope America’s (and Canada’s) native peoples don’t follow the Maori example. We don’t need more gangstas and potheads, thanks.

    • I think its tragic that so much money is thrown at sport and the America’s cup etc and yet so little attention is paid to child poverty and abuse, where help is so limited due to lack of funds. How disgraceful is that. I find that these very sad facts are swept under the carpet and ignored.

26. I’m Russian,

    Lived in NZ for 20 years. If not for my name you would never know I’m nota Kiwi. While I love NZ dearly because there is no shooting and killing here yet, I agree with all of the above. Also low aspirations of Kiwis are slowly killing this country.

    • What are you talking about of course there’s shooting and killing, it’s happening all the time. But I do agree with you about low aspirations killing this country, so does apathy and selective amnesia!

27. A Kiwi’s Point of View

    The truth hurts like a needle pricking the skin, I return to NZ for short stays, but can’t wait to leave again. New Zealanders have a skin deep mentality! they’re friendly on the outside – for a while, but resent the fact of anyone getting ahead or having a different agenda to themselves!
    The countries rivers are polluted and stagnated by decades of greedy dairy farmers spilling their runoff anywhere and everywhere. All national parks are napalmed with 1080 toxin that kills everything that breaths – in inhumane ways.
    The cost of living is insane!!! Food prices are controlled by only 2 major outlets!!! the average salary cannot maintain, feed or cover a small family with a mortgage or renting!!! – unless the cheapest staple food produce is purchased. The Food Banks throughout the country prove this, including the feeding programs of undernourished kids at school (who’s paying for this?) The mark up of any imported items within NZ are not price controlled!!! One has to research on the net (Priceme) before buying anything!!! – or get ripped off!

    The last 40 years of Government are the blame for the dilemma that NZ is now suffering from – Bad Politics with short term goals!!! The amount of different Political parties & regional bodies across the country (regional & district councils) are absurd for such a small population.
    Every New Zealander should have savings without excuse!!! – its now impossible for those that live in debt – which is most of the country!!! The middle class (whats left) are now squeezed even more as tax gatherers to fund the lower class and unemployed – The money has to come from somewhere!!! NZ is in the same dilemma as Ireland & Greece, theres only a short time left before the country dissolves into oblivion – especially if theres a change in Government in 2014 or if Fontera collapses off shore!!!

    New Zealand’s landscape and wilderness is awesome – Its also what foreigners, tourists and immigrants visualize, but the guts of the country is on its knees without any long term future status to resolve the important issues to keep the country sliding more into poverty!!!

28. Whoops I mean lived New Zealand

29. This is such a typical American stereotype i have loved in nz my whole life and all I got from this accusation is some truth but mainly lies

30. Kiwis often ignore what the original poster said and revert to American stereotypes in their answers. They seem incapable of recognising that New Zealand is not the country it advertises itself to be. The poster was complaining that nothing was both made to last and affordable in New Zealand. It is wasteful of human and other resources, to operate like this, and the poster taking the moral high ground over consumerism has no leg to stand on. Marks and Spencer makes their clothing from FairTrade cotton. Lands End (American similar brand) clothing, made in USA. Good products do not have to be made exploitatively to be affordable. Everyone uses products. I assume this poster is not squatting in a cave eating dirt, and does buy things for his needs, as the OP needs to. Nothing comparable to Marks and Spencer or Lands End exists in New Zealand in any area at all, not merely garment trade. This makes normal family life difficult on top of the cost of living, cost of housing, weather coming “into” the houses, remoteness, uncontrolled crime, the “paradise egoism”, level of learnedness of the populace, and everything else. We had an organic enterprise back in the States. New Zealand sucked for us. We are happily gone.I know another family who had run an organic business abroad, who thought they would love New Zealand, brought their business over, and were surprised by what they found. They too have left. Both families were stressed beyond belief as a result of the insane lie of the “New Zealand lifestyle”. Even the ones of our sort who stayed there, with whom we are still in contact, do not intend to stay forever. At the time we were there, they did agree with us about the problems.

31. if u want to do wall in nz in go in to aquaculture were leading the would in this industry and that what makes new zealand money

    • ^Product of NZ school system.^

      • Yeah. Funny, when I was being interviewed by a WINZ Maori staffer, she refused my request to apply for the office position stating my English is “poor” despite my 8 IELTS. I did not want the kitchenhand position as I don’t cook. The funny thing is grade schoolers in my native country are surely better at spelling and arithmetics!

        • they are about 2-3 years behind compared to developed nations, and some nations they think they are more developed than. ;P

32. Who kind of temperament does a person have to have to acatually complain like this. Is she an actual dollar bill? Maybe a corporation that actually did turn into a real person? You know miss american, not everyone in the world cares about business. Some people find more value in other things and what you describe as a negative is what people find a positive but how dare others in the world live a non-merican way, right.
    Cheap Chinese products are everywhere in the world but just like other places you do get the option to buy non Chinese products too. Just because it sounds like she buys the cheapest thing, doesn’t mean others do. Imagine having a free market place, the horror.
    The idea that things cost a lot is true as it was a socially aware economy but people like this woman will be happy to know that rich are getting richer and poor are getting poorer so getting a lot closer to that ideal american way of “If you help others, you might just be a communist”

33. I don’t agree with this post at all I’m a kiwi and we have survived in NZ for years sorry you’re experience is different I think that’s you’re problem you got ripped off many of us have good jobs,wages etc and we don’t think NZ is a rip off do us all a favor and do your research before moving to another country. Stop whining no one really cares!!!!!

    • No ad hom attacks please. Have you lived in another country and was the reality different to the marketing it used to promote itself to you?

      One more question, why do so many Kiwis leave New Zealand?

    • This is a fairly typical point of view from someone who has never lived outside of New Zealand. You’re been brought up from birth to believe that New Zealand is the best place on earth and you haven’t questioned that. Stop believing the propaganda and get out there and experience life whilst you still can. You may find it’s not the great place you think it is.

    • So what is your reference, what can you compare with? Did you ever live elsewhere, I seriously doubt it.

      You are like these Windows/Mac/Ford/Holden users who only ever used that one product and then claim loudly and proudly that it is the best.

      I bet you blindly vote for only one political party because that is the one your grandparents and parents always voted for.

    • Virginia Ngata Tupou :
      I don’t agree with this post at all I’m a kiwi and we have survived in NZ for years sorry you’re experience is different I think that’s you’re problem you got ripped off many of us have good jobs,wages etc and we don’t think NZ is a rip off do us all a favor and do your research before moving to another country. Stop whining no one really cares!!!!!

      This is our point madam. You have survived your own country! That means, you struggled! We don’t come here for this. Immigration marketing campaigns picture NZ as paradise to lure us here. They don’t tell us that we will have to struggle to survive.

      Of course, you don’t think that NZ is a rip off. You were born here, you have a good job, quite possibly family support.

      It is nearly impossible for an immigrant to get a good job, no matter how qualified and experienced one is. We spend mega buck to come here to do what? Washing dishes and driving taxis because employers prefer to hire locals even with less knowledge and experience and wouldn’t give a chance to an immigrant. This madam IS rip off.

      We are not whining. We share our stories to help prospective immigrants make an informed decision. We know that nobody cares, I know it personally. Too bad for you guys, it only proves our point – you are not worth it. Cold & arrogant people!

      • Well said and so true. They are not complaining because they might have availed of the benefit but that’s not what the migrants want…….as migrants want to work and live life productively. Thank you for your post. And I love what you said at the end ” YOU ARE NOT WORTH IT”. Kudos.

    • So pathetic to say ” No one really cares”. That’s shows your true color.

      • Sorry, my message above on ” So pathetic ……………..” was addressed to V Tupou as I don’t think that’s the right attitude. The truth is people cares and we should be willing to listen.

    • “Virginia Ngata Tupou April 5, 2013 at 10:38 pm – I don’t agree with this post at all I’m a kiwi and we have survived in NZ for years”

      Perfectly said Virginia Ngata Tupou – you have “survived” but life is not just about survival and those caveman days have long gone, people come here to “live” and I must say, live a quality “life”

    • Nobody will contest what you say , but that doesnot change the sullen truth of things in NZ the way they really are versus how you feel and perceive them , probably having no valid comparison. Understandable reaction but flawed.Sure many comments feel nasty if you are a NZer, it is very confronting and sometimes painful to admit.

34. On the contrary, I as a research scientist, have found life perfectly enjoyable. I do not agree that Kiwis are superficial. Sure, there are jerks around. But hey! I am from Texas and India! So don’t get me started on jerks and knuckleheads. But I believe Kiwis are genuinely friendly people, if somewhat individualists. But to each his own! And I am not a social butterfly myself, and prefer to be left alone, with the occasional ‘hi-n-bye’. So I fit in perfectly. But yes, NZ is a low income-hig expense economy. But that’s just because of the way the country is built around services rather than products. But that is not necessarily a bad thing. Mindless consumerism does not lead happiness. I can vouch for that. If it did my beloved homeland would be paradise. But ask your average middle-class American about it. Sure, consumer product varieties are limited in NZ, and yes they do tend to cost more than in the US. But again, that is because this country functions in a very different. There is nothing wrong with a people trying to live a secluded, somewhat isolated and relaxed life. We Americans got to stop expecting the world to follow in on our footsteps. Now, don’t get me wrong. I am a conservative patriot through and through. It will always be red, white and blue for me… no matter where I go and/or live. But I do see the quaint poignant beauty of NZ, and the kind of life they have tried to build here. May be it’s a little naive and idealistic, but in my book those are qualities to be adored and enjoyed, not mocked or vilified. In a nutshell, I loved my time here. My research is taking me elsewhere in a month, but I will sorely miss living in Auckland. I absolutely dote on this city. And I will come back the moment I get an opportunity, even with a lower paycheck.

    • Sam (uel), Man, you are certainly upon a different pedestal, but idealism doesn’t pays the bills. Try living an academic life with two degree and no jobs, then i can too vouch for what you said there. However, i agree that as an academic, NZ is not a bad place to be because you barely pay an international fees.And that shows in the stats that most academics in NZ are migrants.

      However, buddy, not everybody takes your route or mine. I bet that you can try living a quaint life in country full of morons, but that’s because you don’t have to deal with them in your everyday quest for ‘bread and butter’. Academia is a froth of the milk anywhere, the best people of any country are found there, be it in ‘Mozambique’ so you experience is itself invalid in the larger scheme of things here . However, try working in corporate sector and you will know what we all are victim of.

      Btw…i am Indian too, did my later schooling and Degree from US, worker there and then got entrapped in this sinkhole due to my idealism and academic bug. But now i am trying to get out of here by catching that same elusive rope of academia.

35. Money and connections make life easier anywhere you go. Sad but true. No Place is perfect. However, having higher expectations in a country that feels it’s at the top progressively, is frustrating. You end up rubbing people the wrong way. Compromising your standards in your ‘basic’ living is something you have to weigh. Should I stay or should I go is the constant internal dialoge. Make a decision, stick to it, and take action.

36. It is difficult to settle down when you have no money, everything is too expensive, and most rental stock is cold and wet. If your idea of relaxation is a camping trip you cannot escape from for years and years, NZ is your destination. That’s why many migrants say “nice place to visit, not a nice place to live”. Camping trips are fine as long as they are temporary. Living inside a camping trip for year upon year without relief – no thanks.

37. Wow. It never ceases to amaze me just what other people coming to live in NZ think. I agree with Jai.
    We are not the perfect country. Sorry if the tourism industry has mis-represented this. Anyways, tourism is for tourist – not for those wanting to live here. No brainer.
    Yes NZ is expensive. Yes lots of people cheat the benefit system. Yes we are behind in terms of electronics etc.

    FYI: I was born in a tiny rural town north of Auckland, have lived in Wellington since I was in primary school and spent a large amount of time with family in the rural west coast of the South Island. I now live in the UK.

    Currently (2012) 1 NZD = 0.5 GBP.
    In NZ it would cost me $10.50 for 3L milk + 2 loaves of bread. My cousins living here in the UK consider £5 a lot of money. Go figure.

    NZ has expensive living costs due to almost no competition, isolation internationally and isolation internally, etc.

    Expenses aside.

    To whoever wrote the original article: Yes, most of the dairies (corner stores) and take-away shops are owned by asian immigrants. So what? Do you have a problem with that? Because I don’t.

    In terms of housing it is not all as the original article has described: “Nothing’s insulated, no central or baseboard heat, single pane windows, cheap carpet and linoleum, mold all over the place from condensation from LPG heaters, cracked and warped sheetrock/gypboard from moisture damage, no such thing as a dehumidifier” – brings to mind of a mid 20th century house that has not seen any alterations/updates/repairs since the day it was built!
    I have lived in five houses (four of them rented) since my family moved to Wellington – trust me, NONE of them were anywhere that description!! ALL new houses built MUST have insulation, and all new houses I know of have double glazing.
    As a child I (and my younger, still school aged siblings) only had those horrible foam mattresses when sleeping in a camping hut.

    Auckland is heavily subdivided – but no more than what I’ve seen suburban towns in England, or than in Los Angeles (not talking about outskirts areas such as Calabases).

    NZ is a relaxed lifestyle. Each country is a different lifestyle. NZ really isn’t the lifestyle for “highflyer” types. It actually gets annoying hearing about people coming to NZ expecting to be able to “make money”, and to have a lifestyle that is considered quite lavish in NZ.
    Anyone who wants to emmigrate to NZ not wanting a relaxed (and isolated) lifestyle is disillusioned.

    The long rein of the former Labour government can be blamed for the “tall poppies” mentality (…hint at my political view).

    In comparison between NZ & USA, the two countries rank (out of the 74 OCED)
    NZ ranks 13th in Maths, USA is 31st. In Science, NZ is 7th & USA is 23rd. In Reading, NZ is 7th and USA is 17th.
    According to studies done by WHO in 2008, neonatal mortality per 1,000 live births is 4 in both NZ and USA; and infant mortality before 1 years old per 1,000 live births is 6 in NZ and 7 in NZ.

    Without entirely repeating what Jai said, IS there a country where the is no crime, racism, fraud etc???

    Personally, I left NZ because the relaxed lifestyle is not what I want right now (like most of my peers) because I want to challenge myself in my career and see how far I can push myself.
    However, NZ is the place where I’d want to return to to settle down.

    New Zealand isn’t a bad place to live, and neither is it a perfect place to live. But neither is America.

    • “ALL new houses built MUST have insulation, and all new houses I know of have double glazing.”
      A couple of years back I lived in a house in the North Island with no double glazing – it was a new development that was probably 5 – 10 years old.

38. * Wow! Farewell…Haere Ra and all that.
    It’s a real shame that those who come here expect to live the same life they’re used to. That they’re accustomed to. Unfortunately for you, you come with your own agenda expecting everything to be done your way because obviously your way is “right”. You come from a master race, world power and all “that”… This is where you fail.
    Try to take that “white” attitude to China and see how far you get?

    New Zealand has a history of social problems stemming way back to colonialsm. Like South Africa vs The Blacks. French vs Tahitian. America(British) vs Indigenous American. Australia(British) vs Aborigine, New Zealanders(British etc) vs Maori. etc etc etc…
    * Please by all means explain to us the wonderful benefits that have come to the indigenous races you have systematically tried to wipe out in order to get your piece of the “World” pie?

    * We were born and bred here. The culture is rooted IN the land. Whenua. The changes made in 1642, 1769 and 1840 are all part of WHO we are today. The 2 cultures have successfullly lived side by side without civil war since the 1800s. We disagree on many things for sure but we also try to live together and get along in the very short space of time we are on this planet, this small piece of earth.
    Civil War will never happen here because we have come together in life, in death as whanau(family). There are those with warped views, certainly but they are the minority and will never go “viral”.
    Our whanau now consist of white, polynesian, micronesian, asian etc..
    We are affected by the same problems as the rest of the world…violence, drugs, debt, racism, crime, hatred, death, pollution, poor housing, suicide, white collar crime, injustices of every sort. *Please point us in the direction of the countries that DO NOT suffer from these things? I have yet to find them.
    As for the “Fake” comment – I am still put off by the amounts of plastic surgery that passes as acceptable in other countries. But that’s an entirely different subject.

    This is reality folks. While you complain that you can’t get rich here and live the “American”dream. My concerns are more to do with the fact we have children going to school starving-turning to crime-getting sick or incarcerated- having children at a very young age and starting that cycle all over again…and sadly being raped and killed by those who are supposed to care for and protect them.
    My other concerns are the sewerage that goes into our oceans where we collect our seafood.
    The runoff from farms and industries that pollute our waterways where we collect our food.
    The pollution that goes into the air that we breathe.
    The dodgy ingredients from all over the world that enters into our food and drink that we have no control over and must blindly trust those in “power” to be looking out for our best interests.

    So.. Is this Paradise full of money making opportunities to all who come here? NO.

    Everything that is highlighted in the first post I tend to agree with. Because you hit the nail right on the head. We here, need to raise our standards, our values and STOP watching all that American and Worldwide crap on TV. Back To Basics. Whanau Comes First. Not Money.

    • If you raise your standards and values,
      won’t more people fail?
      Remember: a world-class level of education – comes with a world class number of failures.
      Courses where everybody who enters it, graduates with a degree – are worth very little indeed, in my opinion.

    • “Try and take that white attitude to China and see how far you get”

      We don’t have to. You know why? Good hard working Chinese people come to America in search of opportunity, and we are happy to have their input. And many Chinese that don’t go to America will stay there and work for companies that exist to copy or rip-off ideas or brands created in America. Why? Because the economic and governmental concepts are irrefutably better. By measure of the success they have created in the time span they have been used. Nothing you are even using as you type your nonsense, including the internet itself, would exist without America having created it. Your clueless argument is as arbitrary as telling a British person that their perspective is no good because they wouldn’t get far in the Mayan civilization.

      Thanks to this site for saving us from a wasted venture to NZ.

    • I think you can protect and put first Whanau at the same time as improving elements in the economic value chain that benefit all in NZ . It is not mutually exclusive at all , in the contrary it should be complimentary.But it will need to start by letting the culture evolve and mature towards appreciation of what makes out real quality. The appreciation of quality and the mindful aspiration to attain it can only be found in a handful of countries that are for no surprise the most happy and affluent nations on earth , most but not all in Western and Northern Europe.

39. What you say is so right. Having lived and done business in NZ these past ten years, we’re outta here as soon as we can sell our place.
    NZ really could be Godzone if only the govt. would get its act together and stop giving the nations wealth to the maori mafia (iwi stands for I want it…). $37 billion and counting. Just think how much infrastructure that could have bought. We could have had our own version of the NHS and the air force would be a force and not a farce!
    While the Kiwi “white zombies” have their heads stuck in the ground in denial, the maori racists are robbing the rest of the country blind. I can’t see it changing apart from getting worse…

    • The worst part is that all that $ has not improved the outlook for any that have recieved it. The over representation of this demographic in the criminal justice system is still high, productivity levels still low, educational results low, representation on the “dole” high.

40. We’ve had similar negative experiences. NZ advertises for skilled professionals from abroad and then when they get here often treat them badly . My husband and I have both been bullied in the workplace. Because every one knows every one else people are afraid to complain. Nepotism in the work place is rampant.

    Goods and services are extremely expensive. One or two large companies monopolise supermarkets and as for milk don’t get me started on Fonterra!

    There is a huge gap between rich and poor and much racism and prejudice against anyone and everything that isn’t Kiwi. Small man syndrome, I think.

    I find life here extremely boring with the most mind numbing press and television

    I find Kiwis only superficially friendly.

    I shall be retiring back to England.

    • Bang on! We’re going back as well. We’ll take our chances with the muslims and the rest of the undesirables back in the UK. Beats being endlessly screwed and racially discriminated against here and at least they’ve still got the NHS.

41. I agree, the cost of living in NZ is higher, and the wages are lower. There is a huge migration from NZ to Australia. Kiwis can’t afford to live in their own country.
    Other aspects; although reputation and integrity are said to be valued, it’s really just a hoax.
    The “tall poppy” thing here is rampant. Don’t try too hard, you’ll get cut down. There is a double standard of being seen to be “respectable” and actually being “respectable”.
    I was going to service my vehicle, so I went to the Warehouse [similar to Walmart, K-mart] to get motor oil. $40 for a 5 litre jug. I thought that was a bit much, so left empty handed. I went home and looked up the same product [online] in the US, it was $15 [currency converted].
    Same product, nearly 3 times the cost.
    Most things can be brought in cheaper via internet sales [even though the postage is as much or more than the product. So, if I can do that on a small, personal basis, why can’t that be done on a larger commercial basis?
    Food that is produced locally is going for the same prices that can be had on the export market. Cell phone cost is big. When we lived in the States, we’d never learned how to txt, never needed to, calling was affordable. Electricity is very expensive, even though most is produced via hydro, then they added on the bogus ETS [carbon tax] that saw prices jump on an already expensive commodity.

    So, if you want to get paid 1/2 as much and pay twice as much, NZ is for you.

42. The typical Kiwi take on exploitation of workers is smug,articles such as this –
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10483620

    Deplorable, and these abuses need to be rectified. However, it is common in the Kiwi media to point the finger abroad as if these things do not happen in New Zealand, or happen to such a small extent that NZ does not need to look in its own mirror.

    But it does need to.

    Nannies exploited
    http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/au-pair-exploitation-prompts-new-group-3171059

    Trafficking -Typical treatment in New Zealand. Press delete. No problem.
    http://www.rykenlaw.co.nz/web/article_4025.htm
    [1]Hon Mark Burton, Minister of Justice responded to the US State Department report by releasing a statement (6 June 2006) which asserts there is no trafficking at all in New Zealand, and that assertions suggesting otherwise are based on anecdotal information and a difference in definition. That workers are “trafficked” into New Zealand and continue to be “trafficked” cannot be doubted. The justice system mostly does not encounter the trafficked workers because once discovered by immigration authorities they are whisked out of the country.

    WWOOFers –
    http://www.igougo.com/story-s1365887-New_Zealand-WOOFing_New_Zealand.html
    more lack of regulation.

    Slave sailors in the Wild West?
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/4842357/Slavery-at-sea-exposed
    Talley says New Zealand fishing is like the wild west, and getting worse.
    “I think because of the higher price of fuel around the world, and as more of these boats get displaced, New Zealand is ending up as the junkyard for these fleets. I think I can say without fear of contradiction that nothing has improved one bit, and, in many ways, things have got markedly worse.”

    Sex worker trafficking? Just because it is legal in New Zealand does not mean that abuses do not occur. “Don’t sweep it under the rug”.
    http://www.ecpat.org.nz/

    Exploitation occurs everywhere. People in these developing countries exploit one another, kill girl babies, pay pennies to workers, have bribery and corruption in their governments, you name it. Having row upon row of Michael Moore docos in your video stores and keeping the worst of it under wraps so other nations can’t see your dirt doesn’t make New Zealand more virtuous than any other place – no worries, mate, we can smell the dirt. Some Americans who might be fleeing their own country’s policies of catering to corporate interests over human rights might view New Zealand as a kinder gentler place to get away from it all. Let me inform them before they bother coming – it is not. What New Zealand IS, however, is a place without its own Michael Moore.

43. “Part of this is that Kiwis don’t have money to spend, part of it is just the mentality there. Consequently it’s very difficult to do business there, the chinese make out like bandits exporting there. Just Google “Kiwi” and “No. 8 wire” and you get a better idea of what I’m talking about Not only will you take a 50% pay cut, the retail there is *god awful*- just a bunch of cheap stuff imported from China that breaks in a few months. And then has to be duct taped together. With cheap chinese duct tape. Sheets and clothes are polyester, towels are thin and scratchy, everything’s plastic, kid’s mattresses are foam.”

    I have no sympathy for New Zealand’s racist treatment of immigrants but the compaints of this American woman display her own barefy concealed form of chauvinistic racism, not to mentioned sense of entitlement and privilege.

    I would remind this woman that those “cheap Chinese products” you rail against are made by workers in China often laboring for *American and other Western corporations* who are there to exploit these workers for superprofits.

    indeed, the majority of “made in China” products are made by and for American, Western, and Japanese–not Chinese–corporations. These corporations are the ones who are making off like bandits.

    In general, Americans and citizens of other Western industrialized nations are literally living off the blood, sweat, and tears of workers in the Developing world, who make the products that you consume so you can live your unsustainable and obscene consumerist way of life.

    • I have family in NZ and thanks to a few visits and their years of living and loving NZ, we’re thinking of moving there as well. We’re tired of the rat race of American capitalism. I’m tired of living to work. I just want to work to live and enjoy real life- my family and the beautiful world around me. Screw “doing more” and chasing money. I want to go to a place that values a laid back approach to life and spending an afternoon laying on a beach or something. The original poster does come off as privileged, entitled, superior and fairly condescending. Kind of like the typical American. Our reputation seems to be well earned. Americans, from birth, are trained to spend more time at work than with our families, never take all of your short vacation time, and rather than invest in experiences and opportunities, get more things and put more value in possessions than anything else. No country is perfect. No country ever will be, but to think that the rat race of American capitalistic, corrupt values is the standard the world needs to adhere to- you’re sorely mistaken.

      • @ThoseWhoWanderAreNotLost
        Ironically, you sound like the spoiled brat with the attitude problem. You want to escape the U.S. and American capitalism and come to New Zealand to live the good life. You’re tired of working hard – screw that, you can move to New Zealand and pretend to be a kiwi since you have rellies here, and can find an easy job to slack around at – right? Well, good luck with that. You may not have to work as hard as in the US, and you may get a few extra vacation days per year (if you actually are allowed to take them), but you will be on the fast track in nowhere and to nowhere.

        So, please come to New Zealand and trash-talk the U.S. all you want. Work hard to ingratiate yourself with anyone who will take pity on you for having been raised in America. Your kiwi mates might even let you hang around them once and awhile, as long as you continuously stroke them and act guilty and subservient. Try to learn the fake kiwi accent to disguise your Americanness or, worse, pretend to be a Canadian. At the end of the day (or your life), you will still be an American to the kiwis, and they will see through you as the spoiled brat who gave up on a country that has everything, to live in their little country where you don’t belong.

        You may be an American by citizenship, but you don’t deserve it. And you don’t deserve to live in New Zealand or anywhere else, for that matter.

      • America and New Zealand are not what they use to be, and as an American who lived in CHCH for 16 years, I do not regret leaving NZ for many of the reasons listed on these post. Most Expats who live in NZ, have expat friends, because the Kiwi’s are so slow to accept them for who they are. My wife and I worked hard in NZ, to the point where we did not have time to explore, it was too expensive, why bother. You do not think Capitalism exist in NZ, you kidding yourself.

      • You are so welcome to stay in NZ but make sure you have heaps of $ or you will be surprised. Good luck.

      • We are also American and are thinking of moving to NZ so our young sons can grow up in a society that seems to value family and leisure time then the 15 hours days my husband works 280 days a year!

        We are far from wealthy, so some of what I’ve been reading in this post scares me!

        I was a teacher, so education matters greatly to me, so does NZ’s art scene, which looks pretty interesting.

        • Can you say what art scene you mean? Outside of NZ landscapes, Maori art/Jewelry.. there is precious little if any art world to be found here, trust me I’ve looked. The U.S. is FAR better in terms of art and culture – in fact pick ANY other western nation for that. Best of luck – (visit, sure — even a visit is expensive for what you actually get — but you will likely sorely regret moving here!)

        • I don’t like to put would be immigrants off from coming to New Zealand but it is important they come with their eyes open. I moved here a few years ago and live in the South Island. I enjoy walking so there is a never ending supply of great walking tracks. My trip to work takes 10 minutes which I also appreciate. There is a sense of isolation that is sometimes nice but can often feel oppressive (In the South Island). The rest of the world is a long way away. I don’t really feel unsafe walking anywhere. I feel unsafe driving anywhere here. I remember a lady moved out from the UK and had been here a couple of weeks and was badly beaten in a random assault and was in hospital for a long time. She had been told that there was no violent crime in New Zealand. Her thoughts turned towards suing someone and she was then shocked to find that the legal framework protects people from being sued. (I am not a lawyer but believe you can only sue for defamation here). There is compulsory accident insurance to compensate accident victims but there are many shocking stories such as a drunk driver getting a big payout for rehabilitation medical costs but the person he kills getting a small funeral grant that doesn’t even cover costs. An American friend of mine gets annoyed that New Zealanders take a passionate interest in American issues but seem to have very little interest in addressing problems here. If you come out here expecting and wanting a challenge you will be in a better position than someone looking for utopia.

        • See:

          https://e2nz.org/tag/gregg-smith/

          http://tvnz.co.nz/sunday-news/goodbye-mr-smith-video-4782476

          http://www.nzpensionprotest.com/

          PLUS, to make you feel truly welcome, New Zealand will steal your pension (and your spouse’s, if you have one) if you receive any overseas pension. This is a HUGE cash grab for NZ (322 million dollars last year alone):

          http://www.nzpensionprotest.com/Home/the-truth-twisters

          http://www.nzpensionprotest.com/Home/media-coverage

          http://www.nzpensionprotest.com/Home/media-coverage/reports-about-nz-pension-protest

          http://m.nzherald.co.nz/personal-finance/news/article.cfm?c_id=12&objectid=11592453

          http://www.migrants-to-nz-beware.info/

          And if that doesn’t give you a good idea of how unfairly you will be treated if you immigrate to New Zeland, then you should do our own web search.

    • good for you mate, it takes a lot to be optimistic anywhere in the world right now… but i quite simply say, if you are not happy , go and try and be happy somewhere else…

44. Kiwis are surprized to see how inexpensive things are in the US. Unfortunately, they will cuonter Americans’ complaints of overpriced living in New Zealand with an accusation that Americans are materialistic. It isn’t that. It is the fact that the cost of things makes daily life a hellish struggle. I work two jobs in New Zealand,still do not have the quality lifestyle I had in the States (we are talking home, food, heat, not luxuries like dental care and haircuts, which were not luxuries back in the States) despite the fact of working hard to keep my family above the waterline.

    http://www.ruskin.co.nz/trips/?trip=usa

45. Yes, this person is speaking the truth about everything. It’s all crap value for high prices and you can’t get ahead because people are always trying to suck you dry. Shopkeepers do try to shortchange foreigners, as well. It has happened to me a number of times. They figure you are fair game because you come over here “cashed up”. They don’t even see you as human. Just cattle carrying piles of easily made money that you are waving around and don’t care about. They don’t see it as criminal at all. The attitude here is “if you can get away with it, you rock”.

46. One thing you haven’t mentioned is the shameless cheating of foreign customers in Kiwi stores (read Warehouse, New World..), personally I have had lots of bad experiences with employees not giving the right change, but shouting if I tell them to give my full change back, prices which look good at the shelf, but are different at the counter, employees charging for items but not putting them in the bag (I guess they like the free stuff, like in a reversed shoplifting), etc etc. I would love to avoid these rip-off shops, but lack of options makes it anything but impossible…
    Can’t wait to get the h… out of here!!

    • When living in NZ in 1991 , I regularly was a customer at the Warehouse in Christchurch. I was aware of the fact it was a shop selling everyday items at a low price , imported from China mostly.Nothing to do with the quality range I was used to in southern Netherlands and bordering Germany. But I did’nt feel unhappy because of that. I cannot remember one single occurrence those days that I would not have been attended properly let alone cheated at the till. People were always very friendly and helpful , and I never gor the feeling that I was met differently because of being a new migrant.People were even inquisitive about it , and together we could stand whining about everything that was deemed going wrong in NZ. Mostly those were moments of pleasant human connection . Staff were just courteous always wherever I went. A bit like in the US , although the feel there is more plastic as we say in Europe , nevertheless friendly! In my idealized version of NZ , I still miss these connecting moments here in Holland. The feel in NZ was like ” we here in these far flung isles have to make the best out of it , and we hope that you stay here to do that with us” Sure it was a world without internet and without investers from abroad scoping up whole streets. I think it realy boiled down to my own attitude and way of interaction , conveying a heartfelt longing to belong in my new country. Unfortunately my genuin intentions have been cruelly annihilated through the NZ immigration system , to the point where one could argue that there is a sense of perversion in the fact that I still feel drawn to know how that NZ is faring today. So much about a migrant that gave all but got nothing. Of which testimony in other stories posted here.

47. Very informative sharing here, thanks to all of you. I myself in the plan of moving there. Prefer place will be christchurch instead of auckland.

    • Are you sure? Chch is famous in NZ for its violent crimes, and racism is rampant there…

    • Bro Im a kiwi who has moved to OZ(better money,true) and have worked and lived in south east asia so I feel I have a good knowloge of the whole pasific and i can tell you New Zealand is just as good if not better than any country around, that chick from america the most bull**** country on the planet is just a bloody crybaby no one said living in new zealand is easy its an ADVENTURE…..fake my ass we are more real than any bloddy yank.

      • Have you ever lived in America…Bro? I too am a Kiwi and also lived in OZ. I had a similar distrust towards Yanks, however living in America has opened my eyes, yes as all countries do, America has it’s share of “not much chop”, people but I have found the general population to be kind, friendly, welcoming, not to mention incredibly courteous, and my flawed perception of Americans has been totally turned around. Moving and adapting to any new country is difficult, I think the “fake”, being referred to may be the tourism spin on N.Z. rather than the day to day reality of life there perhaps?
        Couple of years late in responding to this but better late than never aye!

        • Hi, really do appreciate the fact that kiwis who have been to America don’t act as ignorant as some people on this post. “More real than any yank”……hmm these are the sort of comments that say less about you as a kiwi and more about you as a person. It is a fact that racism and xenophobia exists in the world but I doubt very much that anyone wants to be called a racist or xenophobic (that means you have a bias against people from other cultures based on stereotypes…like america). This post is also a little late but I think its worth mentioning in case there are others out there who feel this way.

        • even longer in replying to this……but i must say, i wholeheartedly agree with beguely’s comments…open your eyes, be receptive to new culture, and have a more empathetic understanding of of how shit works….simple. No one place is perfect, its natural to have a bias towards where you’ve spent the majority of your life. That doesn’t make somewhere else lesser by default….accept whats better or worse and see it for what it is.

          • We’d endorse that – seeing it for what it is.

      • This post demonstrates exactly the low achievement level and attitudes of most Kiwis. “Bro,” your poor grammar, punctuation and spelling is doing nothing to promote your cause.

      • Pacific Islands? Yes, NZ might be a smidge ahead of Tonga or Fiji.
        What is “bloddy”?
        Incomprehensable.
        Product of the NZ educational system, gota be.
        NZ has got to be the least honest place I’ve been, NZers don’t say what they mean, or mean what they say.

        • Very, very late reply to this, i’m a kiwi born and raised
          and i agree with some aspects of the post, i do think Auckland has
          got some disastrous housing issues. But i don’t agree with what
          carpentaro said about New Zealand people don’t say what they mean,
          or mean what they say. it depends on the person you are talking to;
          most of us will tell it to you straight; we will be polite as
          anyone else would, but you ask a question we’ll give you a straight
          answer… unless you are referring to our government then in that
          case your right. hehe…. Also about our education system, it can
          be held responsible for kids and teens, but once an adult, it is up
          to them how they spell, if they don’t spell it right that’s their
          doing, and i don’t think a kid posted that.

          • Kiwigirl, we agree adults must take responsibility for their shortcomings, only so much may be blamed on a mis spent youth. That includes grammar and spelling.

        • NZ has got to be the least honest place I’ve been, NZers don’t say what they mean, or mean what they say.

          Kiwis dont know what they mean and if they did they dont know how to say it…Its like asking someone that suffers with bad concussion and alcoholism to wake up and join the 21st century ….. Be prepared to wait a long time for them to go “OH YEAH”

      • Look , this sort of replies epitomizes the very reasons why NZ is unable to progress , it’s one big doorslammer , not to the American lady in question but toward themselves tragically.

      • When you call someone a YANK, it means from NEW ENGLAND, or the East Northern coast of America – the term YANK called out to someone from the South of the USA, can get you in a lot of trouble. In other words, YANKEE (where YANK comes from) is not all Americans, only the ones from the Northeastern coast from New York up to Maine. So all Americans are NOT YANKS.

        • The term “Yank” is offensive to anyone who would not call themselves a “Yank”. It is disrespectful and offensive to most Americans as it is not a term that they would use in reference to themselves. Calling an American a “Yank” is akin to calling a person a nickname that he or she does not like or use in reference to themselves. To me it is like being called a “Chink”, “Spic” or “Dago”. It is an outdated word that carries a negative connotation that does not hold any relevance in modern English conversation. Thankfully, it is becoming less and less common in the Kiwi vernacular. I am an American who has lived in NZ for 15 years. It has been a few years since I have been called a “Yank” by anyone other than a close friend who is trying to wind me up.

    • Thanks for your candid comments. I totally agree with you on the front of NZ being expensive. It totally is and like you I am a Kiwi born and raised here, albeit spending sometime in the UK and the last 8 years in Australia. Yes,I have also been to the states – which I love and you get a lot more for your money.

      I came back to NZ to be near a family member who had become ill early this year (from Melbourne). I am very qualified with 20 years experience in Film and media as well as general office management and I cannot find a full time job here. Instead I have been offered minimum wage at the age of 45!

      You are totally right with your comments on housing here also as we have experienced that since our return. The biggest thing I cannot get over apart from everything else in general being more expensive than Australia, (power, internet, mobile phone costs, insurance) is the cost of food! It is outrageous!!!!! Some grocery items here are double the price of Australia. NZ maybe green but I attribute that to all the rain!!!!

      Hello Australia once again – NZ is just way to expensive for what it is and offers.

      • your comments are also extremely valid too Kate, until you’ve lived elsewhere you don’t have a yardstick by which to measure living standards.

      • Even though you are a “Kiwi”, you find that your resume [if your work history is not from NZ] is not looked at. As soon as a clue is found that you’ve worked elsewhere, it is circularly filed.

        • Very true – if you are not a Kiwi, the cv usually goes in the bin. Jobs are VERY hard to get if you are a foreigner, and it is all WHO YOU know – not WHAT You know.

    • Still want to move to Christchurch?

48. Alex, in his comment above, states that one of the things that keeps him here (in New Zealand) is that “the air is fresh”. I’ve seen this same thing said by expats numerous other times in various other forums, and I really have to scratch my head over this:

    This year, 2010, the city of Christchurch finally put into place a ban on use of open fires and all ‘non-permitted’ logburners (though only during the ‘winter months’. But more on that another time). This ban was actually supposed to have been effected 5 or 6 years ago, but legal challenges (a large percentage of NZ homes are heated entirely by wood fire so there was much resistance to the ban) delayed it until this year. The purpose of putting the ban in place was to reduce exponentially the number of high pollution days/nights right down to zero in sommething like 6 or 7 years from now – because in Christchurch alone, maximum=acceptable pollution levels were being breached on average up to 30 to 45 days a year in the recent past.

    In the local paper, The Press, on Saturday July 31 2010, here is the page-5 one-paragraph article describing how this ban is going is going so far this winter (and we are not even 2/3rds of the way through ‘winter’ yet, and even then cold weather does often extend well beyond August in the South Island):

    “Smog hits Christchurch – Christchurch has had one of its worst runs of smoggy nights this winter, after a series of frosts. On Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday nights, the city breached air pollution levels of 50 micrograms of particulates per cubic metre of air, including its highest single reading this year of 90mcg on Wednesday. The city had four consecutive nights of high pollution earlier in the month. It has had 12 high-pollution nights this winter, compared with 13 last year. Timaru has had 43 high-pollution nights this year and Kaiapoi 23.”

    “Fresh air” indeed! And 43 pollution nights already SO FAR this winter in Timaru!

    p.s. Alex also comments that there is “almost no corruption”. That’s another one that has me scratching my head:

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10656590

    NZ ranked eighth worst of 55 countries in 2010 global survey on fraud!

    • The opinions of 85 NZ companies versus 2915 others (in a world with an estimated 2.8 billion companies) and that makes NZ 8th most fraudulent country in the world! Presumably that means it’s ‘ahead’ of less-corrupt countries such as Yemen, Syria, Colombia, Panama, Nicaragua, Brazil, Russia, Afghanistan, Azebiazhan, Turkmenistan, Pakistan, India, China, Tonga, Indonesia, Malaysia, Spain, Italy, all of North Africa, Ukraine, Belorussia, Albania, Serbia, Rumania, Bangladesh, Taiwan, Myanmar, etc.

49. Im glad I read ur comments….because what I thought to be true about NZ is definetely fake…..

50. Bravo! I would sign under every line of this post as if it were my lines, my thoughts. I’ve been in NZ for 4 years, and every single day the word “fake” tick-tocks in my head. “Max charge for min quality” , dull, dump and drab, time travel back – these are the my every day NZ associations. What keeps me here?… Well, there is no war and almost no corruption, the nature is beautiful, the air is fresh and the beaches are scarcely populated. However, even these qualities hardly keep me from moving back to my corrupted, populated, cruel and intense country… What keeps me? My partner :).

    • I left America after over a decade because of the corruption, rule by the corporates, and a sense that the best times were in the past. New Zealand isn’t the centre of the world and that is the entire point. Here great historical events can be view from a safe distance, unless we get re-entwined with America’s need to control all the world.

      • You obviously don’t keep abreast of current affairs in NZ Ultimo. The impending deployment of NZ troops to Iraq, the TPPA, the GCSB scandals, the Five Eyes alliance and the treatment of Kim Dotcom demonstrate that New Zealand is very much entwined with the US and world affairs.

    • I hear it is okay, okay food, okay service, they need to improve customer service waitime, can wait on phone lines too long, I know they serve cheese on Airlines sometimes, It does routes in Austrailia, New Zealand, US, and Hong Kong
      All employees have a format firstname.lastname@airnz.co.nz, executives are on this website http://www.airnewzealand.com/executive
      This is Air New Zealand CEO email address is christopher.luxon@airnz.co.nz
      Chief Operating Officer bruce.parton@airnz.co.nz

    • Price fixing among real estate companies

      https://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/real-estate-firms-fined-10m-price-fixing

      • http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11756942

        http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/81681420/Bayleys-fined-2-2m-in-real-estate-price-fixing-case

        https://propertynoise.co.nz/2016/11/10/real-estate-agent-convicted-for-using-client-funds-for-personal-use/

        https://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/real-estate-firms-fined-10m-price-fixing

      • Surely not, indeed.

        If you liked that one, you’ll enjoy this:
        https://www.nbr.co.nz/article/auckland-transport-workers-found-guilty-bribery-and-corruption-197717

        This should have been front page news, with journalists chasing down politicians and senior Council staff for weeks or months. A commission of inquiry should have been convened, an anti-corruption taskforce established. Unsurprisingly, no action has resulted. Then again, we wouldn’t want to confront the NZ public with the reality of mass corruption in NZ, would we?

        So … The NZ Herald tucked it away in the business section, where most Kiwis won’t ever notice it:
        http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11763594

        I often wonder who we bribe to make it so high on these “least corrupt country” lists. Oh the irony.

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