“I am so tired of Kiwis making a virtue of necessity – there’s nothing here to compensate for the forced pennypinching”
This story was originally published on the discussion forum Expatexposed.
A US migrant in New Zealand tells how grinding penny pinching becomes a way of life in NZ with nothing to compensate it, rather than a short term measure to get ahead.
The poster also tells of how carefully ‘Brand New Zealand’ is manipulated to attract people who turn out to be unsuitable migrants.
This is the sort of honesty that seldom gets published about New Zealand, and we’re honored to be able to host it here:
“I am so tired of Kiwis making a virtue of necessity. They should be honest that THAT is what it is – making do on a cute remote island. Nothing more than that. Not an arcane “lifestyle” to be aspired to (cue: clink wineglass of Sauvignon Blanc, look out to blue water, flash impossibly white teeth at partner that you would never see on a Kiwi because most of them don’t do dental).
There’s nothing here to compensate for the forced pennypinching – little opportunity, no rich culture, you can’t easily travel to other places for a change – nothing. The government and migration agencies are dressing New Zealand up and not being honest about what it is really like here – THAT is my biggest gripe.
If you are rich, boaty and/or fetishize nature, you will LOVE it here, and you won’t have to make sacrifices, or the sacrifices may well be worth it. I am not rich, boaty and do not fetishize nature.
I DO wear woolly socks and jumpers inside, and I did that before I came here. I shop secondhand “just because it is sensible”. I make food from scratch. I totally agree – it’s sensible and no less, regardless. I have NEVER had central heating or double-glazed windows in any house I have lived in, though I aspired to such back home where I was able to afford to buy my own house. I used to put thermal plastic sheeting on my windows to keep warm in winter. I will hunt that stuff down for this year in NZ if I haven’t been able to leave by winter. At home, I had a gas furnace (not a standalone heater) and my heating was, under a special distributive program where they spread the money out for winter heating to summer months so you don’t get these big lumps to pay in winter) about 80 a month USD (that’s about, what, 100 NZD?). Just to give you a comparison.
The difference is that back there, I lived this same way and was able to save money and get ahead by being frugal. I could afford better food and I didn’t have to darn big holes in socks. I’d darn a little hole or two and then when the socks persisted in developing more holes, I would give them away to the local animal shelter inside a pillowcase for the animals to use. I had money to travel and visit people.
I’ve lived frugally before – and was able to GET AHEAD by doing so. I was able to save thousands a year doing that. Here, you are FORCED to live that way just to keep your head above water, and you are lucky if you can save anything. Maybe some year upward mobility will pull you into its wake if you can catch the wave at the right time…you can only climb the rungs of the ladder with great difficulty in New Zealand, and just hope you don’t have a setback that sends you back to START. It’s easy to have that happen to you if you have no family here to cushion your setbacks for you.
I do not consider that the people of New Zealand are beneath me. I perceive that they “make do” valiantly with what they have. I have seen them be amazingly creative making good useful things out of nothing. The housewives use everything but the squeal. Jesus, do I have to want to live like that, though? This is admirable, and I’d do it if I had to, but why pay out the nose to do that? Kiwis are both shaped and limited by having to live that way. They don’t have time for intellectual pursuits? Just LIVING here occupies enough of their effort, so ok, it’s understandable (Google “culture of New Zealand”, “anti-intellectualism” if you think I am being a snob). People have crafted the Wiki entry to reflect reality, better, I think, since I came over some years ago, and I think prospective migrants should read it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_of_New_Zealand#Anti-intellectualism (See below*)
I don’t think you’re aware of how carefully they manipulate Brand New Zealand to attract people who in actuality turn out to be highly unsuitable migrants. That’s where I perceive my fight to be on EE, is representing the reality of New Zealand as I personally experienced it, as one of those unsuitable migrants, so I can prevent other people from making the same mistake I did. It’s the only way I can make lemonade out of my own lemons! That’s why many of the members post here – they are either venting or making sure the downside gets “out there”, hoping that googlers will be able to find and read it through all the net-bombing by “paradise”-mongers who are trying to represent New Zealand as a place that it is NOT.”
*Anti-intellectualism in NZ (Wikipedia)
“Unlike many European countries, but in common with other ‘Anglo’ countries such as Britain, the United States and Australia, New Zealanders do not have a particularly high regard for intellectual activity, particularly if it is more theoretical than practical. This is linked with the idea of ‘kiwi ingenuity’ (see above), which supposes that all problems are better solved by seeing what works than by applying a theory.
This distrust of theory manifested itself in social policy of the early and mid twentieth century, which historian Michael Bassett described as ’socialism without doctrines’: although the policies of the first Labour and other governments pursued traditionally socialist goals, they were not based on any coherent theory. A major break with this tradition came in the 1980s when the fourth Labour and fourth National governments enacted a series of reforms based on free market ideology.
This reinforced many New Zealanders’ distrust of intellectual theory, as many consider that the reforms increased poverty and inequality in New Zealand. Despite the prevailing mood of anti-intellectualism, New Zealand has reasonably high rates of participation in tertiary education and has produced a number of internationally renowned scholars and scientists, including Ernest Rutherford, J.G.A. Pocock and Alan MacDiarmid. It should be noted that both Rutherford and Pocock spent most of their professional lives in Britain. For many years this was a common occurrence, and a consequence both of New Zealanders’ attitudes and the low population which made it hard to support major research.
Attribution
Because New Zealanders often have to relocate to achieve worldwide fame and fortune, New Zealanders are keen to claim famous people as being New Zealanders, however short their residency in New Zealand might have been.
While people born in New Zealand are certainly identified as New Zealanders, those who attended a New Zealand school or resided in New Zealand also qualify, irrespective of national origin. This sometimes leads to famous people and innovations being identified as coming from both New Zealand and another country—such as the pop group Crowded House, the race horse Phar Lap and the actor Russell Crowe, all of whom have been associated with Australia and New Zealand.
Because the measure of New Zealand success was often how well a person did internationally, anything from ‘Overseas’ is seen as holding more cultural capital than the local equivalent, regardless of its quality.
This means that New Zealanders are often lured to the performances of “international acts”. This is exacerbated by New Zealand’s isolation and small population causing it to be skipped by the international tours of all but the most commercially successful musicians and performers. The flipside to this phenomenon is that famous people from overseas can be quickly embraced by New Zealanders if they visit regularly or for an extended period or claim an affinity with the country.”
http://www.listener.co.nz/issue/3355/features/2475/the_unfriendly_isles.html
“We invite them to live here, then set them up for failure. Immigrants and refugees have a tough time settling in New Zealand, and it’s costing them – and us – dearly”“New Zealand has never been particularly welcoming to immigrants, but a National Business Review-Phillip Fox poll this month suggested that attitudes of ordinary New Zealanders to non-white immigrants are hardening.”
“The requirements for immigration and the requirements for registration [as a teacher] are very different and it’s never been made explicit. So they come here on the basis of their teaching qualifications and can’t register. We suspect it’s the same with other qualifications, particularly those with a registration component, such as engineering.”
Although politicians attack migrants for “taking taxpayers for a ride” by claiming sickness and hardship benefits, a recent Victoria University survey found that a majority of New Zealanders are accepting of immigrants, but they have little to do with them. Those at the bottom of the socioeconomic heap who have most contact with them often perceive them as a threat. Chile was called in recently to sort out a dispute for an African migrant family who bought a house in South Auckland. “The people next door set the dog on the woman of the house and the children have been beaten up.”
(E2NZ.org is being updated all the time, for the latest of hundreds of migrant tales click on this link e2nz.org/tag/migrant-tales. If you would like to send us your migrant tale please leave it in the contribute section).
Everything you read on this site is genuine. We cite all our sources so people can judge the authenticity for themselves. People may not want to believe what they read here, and its easier to dismiss the site than deal with the numerous issues it raises; BUT that is what we call the “New Zealand condition.”
Let’s face it, if New Zealand was that great why does a country larger than Britain have more sheep than people, and a population of a little under 4.5 million. Did you know >1 million Kiwis live overseas, ever wondered why they do that if ‘everything is awesome’?
Please take a while to read some of the comments that were left on this thread since it was first published in Feb 2010 – scroll to the bottom of the page to get them.
A Selection of Related articles from the Migrant Tales Series
- Migrant Tales – Crime in Palmerston North and Dunedin, Take Care
- Migrant Tales – British Cop in Northland: NZ’s “Crime Statistics a Work of Fiction”
- Migrant Tales – Time to Leave Queenstown
- Migrants Tales – Basil’s Tale
- Migrant Tales – There’s a club and you’re not in it
- Life After New Zealand – A Return to Bonnie Scotland
- Migrant Tales – British Sparkie Can’t Find Work
- Kiwi Kids Nose Dive in the Education Stakes
- “New Zealand Migration Agents Cheating Malaysians Thousands Of Ringgit!”
- Migrant Tales – Hong Kong Chinese: Moving to New Zealand is a Big Mistake
- Migrant Tales – NZ Tertiary Education Sector a Rip-off
- Migrants Tales – Teacher finding it impossible to change jobs, and Novopay stuff-ups
- Migrant Tales – There’s a club and you’re not in it (e2nz.org)
- Three New Zealand Cricketers Caught Up in March Fixing Allegations (e2nz.org)
- Migrant Tales – Time to Leave Queenstown
E2NZ.org 
In the long run if this trend continues crime is going to be a big problem and when the youths can’t find a job,they are going to get desperate
But isn’t this already happening?
I am not sure if this has been mentioned,has anyone noticed lately that the New Zealand Government lets its youths down,I have met many youths that have been on the Unemployment Benefit and are having a hard time to find a job in New Zealand,I have even heard Hong Kong youths who live in New Zealand are also in the same boat,I have heard in conversations in many youth groups that most of them feel leaving the country is their only option
New Zealand doesn’t have to provide them with anything when it’s easier to export its unemployment to other countries. Of course, those who remain have to find other *methods* of financing their lifestyle. Hence the growing poverty and rising crime.
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Hi some what free thinking people, just wanted to say New Zealand is a very corrupt place, it’s not so much that every one is a wear of the corrupt way they act, it’s more so a systemic cultural corruption, people in new zealand don’t think for them themselves they in fact don’t think at all, they act and associate in groups that are lead my people with money, that maintain the way it is, they often hold themselves or there group, be it the company they work for the industry they work in the church they attend, above others weather it be the Maoris the dole bluggers the pot heads the poor people, every one thinks there better, if you don’t Allie to these groups you will set your self up for a very rough ride, Questions are the the Antichrist to new zealand society, as soon as you ask one, your painting a target on your back,analytical assessments of any thing no matter what, is highly taboo, (the truth is propaganda) slung from some secret CIA type group composed of every minority group in the world, there all out to sabotage paradise, having a opinion or a concern is putting a spanner in the works, the over all doctrine of nz is to follow blindly as blindly as the German people followed Hitler so the NZ people will follow any group with the audacity to claim there superiority, the staidest part of all this is there are people such as myself born in new zealand that are smart and capable of solving vast problems, that are cast onto the mass rubbish heap of unwanted life, we struggle to make a life because we refuse to conform into a broken system that is sending the world to a certain apocalypses be it war starvation pollution, I have no education nothing that’s right NO education you might ask how is that possible, well if you go to a slightly how do I put it up market school, they can just say we don’t like you please fuck off, then you can go to a training organisation and and they can say sorry we lost your paper work please fuck off, then you can go to another training organisation and they can say no you can’t in role in our course as you have bean arrested by the police for smoking pot, total illegal for them to say that as it violates my human rights but as I don’t have money for a lawyer well, they may do as they please, so as you can see new zealand is a fascist sectarian society embodying the worst prejudice from many miss guided doctrines to make the ultimate narcissistic nation of the world where just about starting to make america look like a good place to live no offence to the millions of Americans trying to make a better world.so back to me well I am 33 no job no chance of a job and a income that means I must break the law to survive in the hope that the world or at least the country I live in will change for the good of the people, but hay I’m not holding my breath, would love to go to a proper country, but no money means, NO, it might be worth adding I am an inventor with a number of very good inventions that might in a more progressive country go on to benefit millions of people but certainly not in new zealand, selfishness and self interest are the only truly admired traits in New Zealand.
I now have serious concerns for my dad and mum,my dad has done only 9 years in the railways in New Zealand,most of his time was either in the KCR or MTR in Hong Kong,I have been told that they will compare my parents assets and overseas pension once they retire and if they have too much plus the overseas pension,they’ll receive nothing due to Section 70 in the Superannuation law,seriously how is NZ a good country?
Start on Twitter Alex @nzpensionvictim plus tell others to join as well
All the more why your parents should maybe buy an apartment in HK.
Sent from my iPhone
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Hi All,
Long-time reader of this blog but first time poster. Wanted to agree with a lot of the comments I read about how NZ doesn’t live up to its propaganda and the traps you can find yourself in over hear, plus the Tall Poppy syndrome is alive and well.
I came to NZ back in 2005 as one ‘Brit Cops’ under the NZ First agreement, settled up in Northland as it looked sunny with sand and surf, something a NW England lad like myself rarely get to see. At first I really like the job and my colleges (it help that my boss was a South African immigrant himself). So I overlooked the fact that my UK training and experience was ignored and i was virtually considered a probationer, or that fact that my colleagues were so amateurish in their work I felt like a member of the cast of “Live on Mars” (UK Original version) stuck in the 1970s.
The level of incompetence is unbelievable and any suggestion to try something new (to them) is treated with scorn. I’ve never seen the levels of repetitive drink driving and family violence I’ve seen in NZ and I spent 10 years in UK Policing. As for the crime statistics their a work of fiction worthy of a Booker prize! There is a huge criminal underclass in this country and everyone knows who they are but aren’t prepare to do anything meaningful about them due to ‘political correctness’, meanwhile they rape, rob, harm and kill with almost impunity.
Unfortunately my boss left to work in Auckland (and later emigrated to Australia) and the series of replacement bosses wasn’t interested in doing anything but the bare minimum and blocked every initiative I suggested to reduce crime through Prevention (something 5 years later they are apparently totally in to now but still failing at). More and more of my UK colleagues left but I had bought a house I could sell and was stuck, job got more and more boring as my boss allocated all the unpopular office/I.T. based duties to myself (most Kiwi Police officers don’t even own a home PC).
After 2 years I’d had enough but wasn’t looking to return to the UK, I had my residency and wanted to get citizenship so I could give Oz a try (didn’t know about the 2nd class citizenship status of Kiwis back then). Luckily a UK colleague of mine tipped me off to a job with the UN over in the Middle East and a year later this lead to another posting in SE Asia. I loved the job and the lifestyle (plus the money) but was worried I’d fail to get my Citizenship status due to my time outside NZ, so I quit my post and moved back to NZ, think I’d just walk back into my old job with NZ Police or at least another enforcement agency with my qualifications and experience…nah!
Spent 18 month unemployed in Wellington as job up in Northland was never going to happen as I’ve learned as so many immigrant do, all the decent paid jobs are in the urban areas (they hardly qualify as Cities in my mind) but turn down again and again for jobs I was highly qualified and experienced for.
Frequently didn’t even get offered interviews which i worked out later was a strategy. If your short-listed and rejected you can ask for review to justify why your not the best candidate (in the public sector anyway) by not even short listing you, you are left with no recourse at all. The Corrections Service is renowned for this giving all the good jobs to guys on the inside, but now the Police Service seems to do the same. Turned out my UN experience was a big handicap though a combination of envy (one guy at the start of an interview said my CV read like an ‘adventure novel’ and then proceeded to disagree with every answer I gave to the panels questions) and unwillingness to go the extra yard to chase up my references (different time zones, etc). This also ruled my out of many public sector jobs requiring security checks as my time abroad with the UN was considered ‘suspect’. I discovered the same attitude amongst the Dept of Internal Affairs during my Citizenship application as they wanted documents from my former employers (UN Missions) on ‘original headed paper contracts’ they wouldn’t accept scanned copies which is how they UN an international organisation sends them out. They suggested I contact UN NY and get them to send my the originals…from 4 years ago…like that was ever going to happen!
Finally landed a job with the a Public Sector agency (which will remain nameless), but it doesn’t use a 10th of my skills and find many of my colleagues hostile to me on a daily basis (the women mainly oddly?). Anyway as I find their inane conversations boring in the extreme I’ve given up talking to them unless i have to. Here in Wellington ALL my friends are immigrants, mainly Americans, who at least have some understanding of the world outside NZ and know what’s expected in a developed first world nation.
I still cant sell my house in Northland after 5 years, but I’m going as soon as my Citizenship comes true. I’m either off to Oz to work for my old boss in Perth or if that doesn’t come off I’ll go back to UN and work is some hell hole for a few years to get back in the system. The UK just isn’t an option at the moment, economy is too depressed and I’ve already moved my Pension out.
Looking back I made a lot of wrong assumptions about NZ, I though would be more like Oz and it dam well isn’t. I didn’t know about the lack of good jobs, pay or even the hole in the Ozone layer. They ‘Kiwis first’ attitude and the Tall Poppy syndrome, nor did I know about ACC and its perpetuation of a culture on ‘no accountability for your actions’. I just read those skewed international ‘quality of lifer surveys’ and saw the scenery in the Lord of the Ring film…lol
If I’d know about a blog like this beforehand, I’d have held out for a job in Oz.
Jan,I like to know because my dad owns 3 or more houses,will that hit the pension/super too are you willing to talk on email or phone?
My suggestion would be GET out and do a stint overseas. Go somewhere where you will be admired and embraced. Shanghai would be fantastic for someone line you, or the UK or anywhere almost for that matter. Start looking now!
And if you choose the retain your US Social Security then the NZS will be deducted from that. If you spouse does not have Social Security from the US because he/she is a New Zealander or another nationality, but is eligible for NZS, then watch out. If the person who gets Social Security from another country such as the US, UK, Canada etc. and it is more than the spouse NZS, then that too will be deducted under what is known as ‘ spousal deductions’.There are many cases where the partner has never worked outside NZ, but loses their whole NZS as a result of what their partner gets. Another example of blatantly violating a human right and stealing from individuals and other governments.Really, this whole issue must be kept in mind if you are thinking of immigrating to NZ. That time you retire ( or want to retire ), comes around fast and life us not cheap here. 1 in 7 people over the age of 65 face poverty here and amongst them are folks from the group I am writing on behalf of.
Jan McKeogh can I contact you by email,I have tried telling my mum about the Super,they don’t even know what I am talking about
@Jan if you’d like to correspond please send us an email address you want to be contacted through and we’ll pass it on.
Of course.
Part of the big problem which is currently affecting 70, 000 retirees is that most people do not comprehend the pact of what our government is so blatantly getting away with. It is happy though because it is pocketing almost $250 m of overseas pensions. Also people when returning to NZ or thinking of migrating do not really think about what may happen if they already have a pension or have worked abroad. They just think that the 10 year residency requirement will suffice until they read the fine print. Please feel free to have your mum contact me.
Jan
Sent from my iPhone
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Jan,I even warned my parents that if they reach retirement,they should move back to Hong Kong
That is good advice if they enjoy living there.We were in Shanghai for the past two years and loved it.We visited HK and were very impressed also.At this stage we are thinking very seriously about our options. Really the Super is such an issue and is not transparent at all until you apply. I tell you it has been a nightmare that no one who has any nouce wants to share.Again an undesirable trait of a mentality we are up against. Do I sound bitter? Well guess what? I am…..
After spending at least 30 minutes reading opinions of New Zealand, I wonder why no one has raised the issue of getting the New Zealand Super deducted from an overseas pension if you have one. My family and I have had equal time in both Germany and NZ where we have worked hard, paid our taxes and been committed members of the communities we have lived in. Our pension schemes in Germany were contributory as with Kiwisaver. The NZ Government exercises a law which has its origins from 1938 that deducts overseas pensions from the NZS so that ‘ no one has a financial advantage over New Zealander ‘ because of having two pensions.
To be pipped at the goalpost when one is retiring in NZ is a disgraceful topple to have from a very dishonest and morally wrong system. We should have never left Europe, and it is not only for this reason of being financially disadvantaged,but for many of the other reasons outlined by all of you.
This is a great blog and for those of you who are thinking of migrating here,take heed at what is being shared. Least of all, you are warned if you plan to make NZ your permanent home.It is an expensive place to live and when you finally stop working you need to be well resourced.
Note as well that Americans still have to file tax returns with the IRS while living in New Zealand, and pay social security. So if you do not renounce your American citizenship, you are paying into two social welfare funds – USA and NZ. Despite only being able to ever draw from one fund, legally.
wel fuk off to ur own country then pesant if the shit dont stink n ur bk yard then u shud ov stayed there kiwi’s would b glad that u dnt cm ova wer fkn laugh’n at the rest ov the world money what a joke when moneys not worth the paper its printed on what u or ur people gna do aye lol kiwi inginuity wil always find a way land and sea will always feed our kids for all genarations to come i hope u spread ur gospil coz we dnt want u…
Again please, but in English this time.
LOL!!!!!!! Good thing I wasn’t drinking or eating anything… Hysterically Priceless… I adore the responses particularly of E2NZ. Sad that this is my first ever post on this website.. but I just had to say it. BTW I’d like the mods here to know I’ve been lurking on this site over the last year, and I have a lot to share. Love to start commenting but really not sure where to begin… please advise. 🙂
Ok thank you.. I’ll look around a bit more and figure out where I’d like to post first, soon… though I may change my nickname to one I want to stick with. (I was being snarky last night, picking this one but for some reason its starting to make me think of all the kool-aid drinking trolls…sounds too kiwi-shorthand for my actual tastes..) Thanks, will post soon. 🙂
Folks tell me to “buck up” I am tired of hearing that, no one understands my homesickness or difficulties I am having.
Crap on it all!
I envy all you who are leaving. Man, I hate it. I am trapped, I have no money to leave because it is in joint account with husband and he WON’T leave, he is a born and bred Kiwi. I have been here a year and hate it more than ever. I never should have left my America, sure, they have problems, but I will take them all compared to here. I have never cried so much in my life. I want OUT!
Dear Sad American – I don’t know how possible it is for you to either talk him into relocating or just make the hard decision to leave him if he will not?
I have wasted 2 decades of my life trying to make life work here, trying to make friends, trying to see the best in people I have finally realized it’s just impossible to live any decent life here. The people are so maladjusted – poor health, binge drinking, hatred of anyone outside their own tight circle (hatred of outsiders is how NZers bond) the mental health of NZers is as bad as their physical health. The slap dash safety measures and random acts of violence are terrifying and are another barometer of a culture of “whatevs, man”.
If you have to borrow and sleep in a friend’s spare room when you first get home. Just get out while you still have some of your life ahead of you – don’t invest all your time in trying to make the best out of a horrible, nasty, expensive and dangerous situation. Get out while you still can.
The longer you stay the less likely it is he will want to go. And the less money will be available to pay for it. Can you not borrow some money from family/friends in the US and get a cheap ticket by yourself?
Ditch ‘your’ Kiwi if he cares about his national ego and geographic preferences, and not about your happiness. What use is it being married to someone like that? Can you get a loan from your relatives back home, and buy an air ticket? What is the status of your assets? Open your own bank account on the side and don’t tell him, if he is being controlling (I had this issue too – I was deliberately disempowered both as a migrant and spouse, and I felt like a slave with no right to my own preferences. Go to a women’s refuge, if he is controlling your life and not accepting your input as a partner. If you have an income, you need to be putting your work check into your own account without his name on it, if he will not allow you to have an opinion. It’ll be hard, and he will put enormous pressure on you, because he will view that money as “his”, and consider that he has some kind of god-given right to your assets and your work. Kiwi men are very concerned about wearing the pants, having the power. You need to get your life back for yourself. http://www.womenslaw.org/laws_state_type.php?id=14107&state_code=PG
Well, I am still here. I gave it a fair or more than fair, trial. I see there is a sale on airline fares going to the states on Air New Zealand. I am going to buy one and my dogs and I are outta here. I have tried looking for work, no one will even give me an interview. I am tired of high prices, lousy Internet and TV. I really don’t feel I ever was accepted by the husband’s friends, and when I did make friends, he resented it. It has not been easy. I have been here close to three years and I am still as homesick as ever. Unfortunately, I can’t leave until October 5, that is when the lower fares start, but, I can wait. “Did it and left” you were right about him thinking ALL money is his. I have to fib and say I don’t have any, if he knew I had some, he would say it was his as well.
I will sure be glad to leave and return to my country, it may be beautiful in parts of NZ, but beauty is not everything.
Take care all. I hope everyone that wants out of here will be able to leave soon.
There is truth here. We moved here from Canada 11 months ago and the NZ illusion bubble is solidly ‘popped’ now. Sub-human housing, crooked business practices, unhealthy people, poor nutrition, white-trash attitudes, limited opportunities, nonexistent service, the entire working population is 40-60 yrs old (where are your youth?) and the news is ‘routine’ violence against children.
This place has NO BUSINESS holding the international reputation it currently enjoys. Kiwis from any cultural background are bigots and have no listening skills. The bottom country on the planet deserves its status on the bottom…there are so many reasons NZ sucks. DON’T MOVE HERE unless you are forced to and then as soon as you possibly can GET OUT!
Uganda was better than this place…And for any ‘native’ kiwis reading this, spare me your ‘if you don’t like it you can go’ routine. A culture is judged not by the way they treat insiders but how they regard and treat outsiders. Kiwi culture is poor, money-grubbing and crude. Can’t wait to ditch this bitchy island duet in the south.
Thank you for your comments. Would you like to write a Migrant Tale for us? If so just leave it in the comments section along with instructions for how you’d like it presented. Many thanks.
[Banned. Admin]
Wow, you nail it… I’m Canadian and I’ve been here 20 years (huge mistake) with my Kiwi husband (who is also hates it here) and we’ve been financially trapped for some time. You express yourself much more, um, forcefully than I ever have, but you say what I thought all along. I wasted so much time thinking I could make some kind of life here and trying to see the best in people and situations around me… which made me an easy mark for the crooks and creeps here. We’re out of here next year, and not planning to come back.
As an ex-pat New Zealander in Australia I recommend you investigate Oz as an option. You will find the culture is a lot more like what you are used to – civilised, positive.
A lot of New Zealanders have no objectivity about their own culture despite the negative aspects of it being plain to see. The whole “harden up” thing is sickening. As if that is all that is required to overcome the violence, bullying, anti-intellectualism etc.
http://transparencynz.blogspot.com/search?updated-min=2013-01-01T00:00:00-08:00&updated-max=2014-01-01T00:00:00-08:00&max-results=20 E2 you might want to add them to your blogroll if they are not there already
You ALWAYS feel massively ripped off in nz, eg I bought some hair product from a hair salon that cost $38 nzd, when I looked on the uk website the same product was $8nzd, when I asked the salon why the big difference they said it was the shipping costs. Oh really – $30 per bottle? Because you have no choice here they can happily charge 5 x the cost what the uk charge. Just one example in many examples.
And the propaganda is incredible in nz. All these articles about how nz is better in x y and z which, if you’ve travelled you know is BULL. the weather reporters are reluctant to declare there is going to be a massive draught this year and so still say “possible showers” in the forecast instead of the truth, or the cost of living – the fact that we are the worst country for housing affordability in the western world, 2nd only to Greece (what the?) barely even made the newspapers – instead its all portrayed as rosy rosy rosy, just say a news story about a car accident in the north instead….there is so much propaganda now – just read NZ herald and spot all the “nz is a great place, says overseas chef and why Auckland is so great” was a major headline in the NZ Herald today…. unbeliveable. I’m not saying that we should always only hear horrible bad news, good news stories are a welcome idea – but propaganda and exaggeration are not good news stories. Do you agree?
Absolutely, have a read of our welcome page and you’ll see that the propaganda culture in New Zealand has been ingrained since the country was first colonised by the British.
I would agree with what safefromNZ wrote,Wellington’s food by far is horrific
This blog makes me laugh. There is so much racism going on, so much negativity, people criticising other people dental work for goodness sake! When on earth did it become your prerogative to judge others dental care!
NZ is an Island community, which is very isolated from the rest of world, making travel for us expensive and time-consuming, not to mention the cost of living being higher as the distance and cost of getting goods to NZ is very great, those are just logistics. With a population of around 4.5 million people there are people from all walks of life. Just like any race. But we are a small isolated nation.
Sure, material goods (I noticed cosmetics especially when I was living in the US are a lot cheaper) are a lot more expensive than North America, but we are a country that loves to try to support small independent businesses. My friends and I would never dream of going to a large chain e.g Starbucks for a coffee, like so many Americans love to do, and be seen doing, but we support the family run business. NZ is a cafe community, UK a pub lifestyle and the USA a chain-store community.
People are complaining about the weather – perhaps do a little research before you arrive. It is not prefect – it rains, what a shock!
I am living in England, the weather is pretty bad here, but I love this place.
Try changing your attitude since you can’t the weather!
So many of my friends are so well travelled and educated. Kiwis are one of the most travelled nations (so I read in an English newspaper) and I have travelled more than most Brits I have met, whom have Europe on their doorstep. I love meeting travellers and I cannot wait to show the friends I have met on my journey, my amazing country when they come to visit.
I am 27, own my own house, am currently travelling Europe living in England, through money I saved myself, no one gave me anything. I do not know how you people can not manage to get ahead in NZ, perhaps that is saying something about your lack of financial management.
I am travelling the world while I’m young, getting out there to see new things expand my mind and then move home when I am ready to settle down to have a family, in what I think is the best place to raise a family. We have such an amazing lifestyle.
New Zealanders are flawed, just like any race. My circle of Kiwis are hard working, intelligent, fun, kind and open minded people who don’t take themselves too seriously.
You are the company you keep, no? Maybe a take a look at yourself?
Isn’t anything what you make of it? Don’t you only get back what you put in?
Try opening your minds and see what NZ gives back to you.
Why did you leave?
Your comments and low level of thinking make me laugh. First, this blog is not racist. The blog is simply providing an accurate depiction of life in New Zealand for prospective migrants based on the firsthand experience from people that have lived in New Zealand. New Zealand markets itself as utopia, so it is only fair that blogs like this exist to present the unvarnished truth about New Zealand reality.
“Judge[ing]”, as you put it, is simply stating the reality. For some inexplicable reason, many Kiwis have a problem when people speak their minds frankly. I have the right to free speech and to my opinions. New Zealand’s stultifying environment prevents people from discussing problems openly and honestly is a major reason why New Zealand is so chronically backward and behind the rest of the world.
Lastly, the main reason New Zealand is so expensive is because New Zealand has such low productivity and Kiwi workers are generally inefficient and lazy. My wife, who was born and who grew up in New Zealand, just started working in Switzerland on triple her New Zealand salary. She notes that people actually do work and that she has not experienced the same pointless meetings and time wasting as she did in Wellington. The idea that Kiwis patronise small businesses is laughable as well. McDonalds was always full in New Zealand and they have sprung up everywhere. The “cafe community” of New Zealand is of very poor quality. I pay slightly more for a coffee in Zurich than I did in Wellington, but people in Zurich earn more than double what New Zealanders earn with very low taxes. The standard of service is excellent, the cup is not cheap, and the building is warm with central heating. I get the same coffee with the same experience for half the price of New Zealand over in Germany and Austria. Your “well travelled and educated” Kiwis would never make the cut in a place like Switzerland that has actual standards.
“Your “well travelled and educated” Kiwis would never make the cut in a place like Switzerland that has actual standards.”
That’s so funny because I have to tell you that I am one of those “well travelled and educated Kiwis” living in London that you believe would “never make the cut in Switzerland”.
Perhaps you shouldn’t make judgements about a large group of people you know nothing about. To be honest, you sound a bit too conceited for my liking. You got a job in Switzerland, big deal mate. Maybe you have a chip on your shoulder and deep down you are bitter that you couldn’t make the cut in New Zealand.
Personally I have never had the urge to work in Switzerland. It’s a very nice country to visit, but personally I would never want to live in a country where flushing the toilet at night (let alone having a late night party) is considered antisocial behaviour.
So why did you leave NZ Al…couldn’t make the cut perhaps?
Tell us why you chose to stay in London when you have the world at your feet. Switzerland sounds a cool place but not so good if your only language is English.
Much kudos to Safefrom for landing a plum job in a first rate country, goes to show there is life beyond NZ. Apparently the reason why Switzerland is the best country to live in is because it invests in its people:it’s premier resource. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/07/switzerland_0_n_4038031.html something you may like to bear in mind when paying off that NZ student loan.
Thank you for illustrating my point and showing us your poor reading comprehension skills, no doubt the product of your third rate New Zealand education. My wife is the one that has found a job in Switzerland. I never mentioned anything about me.
I was merely pointing out what it is like to visit a restaurant in Switzerland, Germany, Austria, and New Zealand to illustrate what a rip off New Zealand is in terms of quality and price.
You show your class and sophistication when you reproach the Swiss for not tolerating late night parties. Why should people have their sleep interrupted by a bunch of drunk bogans making noise? Switzerland is arguably one of the best countries in the world precisely because it sets high standards.
I did better in New Zealand than most Kiwis, but I never found a suitable business opportunity and I was fed up dealing with the incestuous network of bumpkins at New Zealand companies/government agencies. To insinuate that New Zealand is a higher cut than Switzerland is the epitome of madness. I also had my poor Kiwi/Swiss wife endure the cold in a crappy Kiwi house and I vowed never again to see her suffer. We just had some snow in Switzerland, which we enjoyed, but it was comforting returning to a warm house at night, something that was impossible to do in New Zealand. No matter how much I wanted to pay, it was almost impossible to find a house with central heating and built to a standard.
“Thank you for illustrating my point and showing us your poor reading comprehension skills, no doubt the product of your third rate New Zealand education. My wife is the one that has found a job in Switzerland. I never mentioned anything about me.”
That’s even worse than I thought. You admit yourself that you can’t find a job in Switzerland. You weren’t successful in New Zealand and you can’t succeed in Switzerland either.
I know you said your wife is the one who found a job in Switzerland. But I was giving you the benefit of the doubt that you had too, can’t see what that has to do with my education.
“I did better in New Zealand than most Kiwis”
Please quantify that statement. Do you mean you did better in New Zealand than the 51st percentile of the population? You set high standards for yourself don’t you. I would hardly call a job in the public service a high flying career, let alone one without any management or supervisory responsibilities.
“You show your class and sophistication when you reproach the Swiss for not tolerating late night parties”
I have nothing against the Swiss, actually I have great respect for them and overall it’s a very nice country to visit. But that doesn’t mean that Switzerland is high on my list of places I would like to live, that’s just my personal preference. I’m not someone who frequently attends late night parties, but I do enjoy the odd glass of wine or beer in the evening with friends. But even that is probably a bit too wild by Swiss standards.
I have been in Switzerland for thirty days and my residence permit arrived about a week ago, so I reject the insinuation that I am somehow incapable of finding work. The headhunters that I have spoken to all assure me that I will find something very easily at the start of the year when companies resume large scale recruiting, so I am not too concerned. My wife is Swiss, so she was legally able to work here from the day we arrived. She had a job offer paying triple what she earned in New Zealand within her first week and the job entails a great deal more responsibility.
As for New Zealand, I found the professional prospects disappointing. Before coming to New Zealand, I owned a successful small business in the United States and prior to that, I worked in investments at a Fortune 500 company after I finished university. I earned somewhat above the median wage in New Zealand from my New Zealand job, but not a great deal more despite having superior credentials and aptitude compared to the people I worked for. I also had some investment income that helped, but I would not count this in the above calculation. The amount of money I earned in New Zealand from my job was about the same as I would earn in my business in the US in about four months, so yes the professional prospects were disappointing.
My intention in New Zealand was just to work until I found a business to buy, but nothing I found made any financial or commercial sense. I spent almost three years looking for something suitable, but most businesses for sale are overpriced, scams, or I did not have the relevant expertise to make that business a success. Look under the Migrant Tale goodbye New Zealand for my story.
I am now 30 and I know that I can do much better for myself in Switzerland. The people that succeed in New Zealand are those that know how to work the system rather than those with brains, skills, or drive. Many Kiwis go abroad precisely because it is exceedingly difficult to get ahead in New Zealand. The ones that are honest enough to admit it I get on with, but the ones too dishonest to identity and/or state the truth I do not have time for.
There is so much NZ b.s. in that post. It becomes our prerogative to point out the downside of NZ when a country controls its press and advertises itself to the extent that you think it is a more First World country than it actually is and migrate there thinking that you will have a decent living standard (and no, I don’t mean buying useless things. I mean heat, food, housing). It was almost 40% more expensive than where I am from (and where did I read that? nowhere, or I wouldn’t have moved). I couldn’t afford to drink coffee “out” at all while living there, chain or not (and I don’t go to chains in the US either, you’re stereotyping another people just like you think we are doing here on this website. Plenty of mom and pop diners to go to in the States, they are all over the place where I live). The Kiwis simply do not see themselves as others see them because they don’t have the requisite level of self-awareness. They have nothing to compare themselves to because they are in this isolated little bubble. No mirror for their cultural traits, and when they go abroad (as so many do) to make a bit of money to buy their NZ houses with, or borrow from one of their ubiquitous “family trust funds”, they don’t consider what it’s like for a foreigner to move there expecting standard First World conditions (which are lacking in NZ) and then be sucked dry by a nation of oblivious jingoistic vampires.
How much monthly income do you need to raise a family (1 child, primary school) comfortably in Auckland? I am exploring options to migrate and will like to compare NZ with other countries… I have read comments like NZ is good for those who have money….how much in disposable income are we talking about?
As a New Zealander, it rather saddens me to see some of the comments on here. Culture shock is a well-known phenomenon and perhaps some of the experiences related are attributable to an assumption that just because New Zealand is an English-speaking country, it must share similarities in culture. As others have commented, thorough research along with a trial period might have been prudent given the enormity of the decision to migrate.
However, I want you all to consider something. The majority of you can emigrate to a number of countries in the world and become residents. Most New Zealanders cannot. Unless one has ancestry no further back than a grandparent or meets strict criteria including age, many doors are closed to New Zealanders. You have priviliege and with privilege comes choice. However, that also includes a responsibility to choose wisely and to use your intelligence by doing research and trialiing; as I have already mentioned. Rather than place ALL the culpability upon New Zealand and New Zealanders, consider your own part as well.
Not all New Zealanders are ‘anti-intellectual’ but there are some myths that are perpetuated in the media and by those who have not seen past the myths of elevating sporting achievements over others, of No.8 wire (making do with little), and of New Zealand punching above its weight on the international arena. Myths are hard to shake in any society – witness the American myth of being a champion of free market policies whilst having a heavily protected economy. My point is, no society is immune to fault and no society is a utopia.
However, in this world of globalisation and free markets (with some nations excepted), there is competition for migrants as one way of addressing the ageing population amongst western societies. As such, New Zealand has little choice but to attempt to compete – ie; advertise. Just like many other countries seeking to attract migrants. Naturally, spin doctors always put the best possible face upon things – wherever they are! Again, I come back to the responsibility of migrants to do good research.
I would also like you all to consider your own attitudes towards migrants in your own countries. Have you ever been guilty of some of the behaviour you accuse New Zealanders of? I’m certain many of you probably have been. It is no fabrication that there are tensions towards sectors of immigrants in the UK and in the USA. Those immigrants may well have a few things to say about your native countries which are pretty similar to the comments I have seen on here! Whilst not denying there are aspects of life in New Zealand that are less than ideal, I would also never generalise any perceptions upon an entire country, nor would I go to lengths to decry a country to others as this site does.
I’m glad i have found this website! I have just spent working one year in NZ and I have never felt so lonely in my life. Kiwis seem to have no personality, they all behave nicely but i never knew to whom i was really talking to. It is true, they don’t have an individual identity.
And yes, they are racist, but they would never admit it to you. They all say that they are open minded and honest but in my eyes they are all fake and hypocrite.
It is a very beautiful country and for travelling it is great but that’s it. Please think about it ten times before deciding to move to NZ, the risk of developing a depression is quite high.
This is a very interesting blog – well done E2nz.
Kiwi who’s really English in all ways
Thanks for the feedback 🙂
I have seen people say the Japanese are worse,but what about the NZ’ers,I have despised the country after living in it for 19 years and recently in my travels,the Japanese have a better attitude than the NZ people as well
I am looking for a way to get out of NZ and move to Japan and I have already registered for IT courses at WELTEC my asthma is at worst during summer
As a asthmatic,I have found for asthmatics,its not the best place to move to
I am a former immigrant to New Zealand who thought I had developed asthma myself, attributing it to strange pollen in some areas, but I figured out later that it was anxiety attacks due to certain situations I kept being placed in, that I had no control over. I needed to not be placed in those situations. They were bleeding my resources dry, threatening me, bullying me, trying to coerce me into doing things they wanted without giving anything in return. I was being cattle prodded down a one way street where the only ones benefiting were themselves. I had unwittingly stepped into a legal trap, moreover. They knew their own laws and I did not. When I removed myself as much as I could from contact with Kiwis, severing these exploitative and manipulative relationships, and sucking up the consequences, even though my material circumstances took a deep dive, the attacks stopped because I was not being personally pressured anymore. I moved out of the country as soon as I could, but I would like for readers of this blog to know that it’s not always easy to leave right away.
Why thank you Ian, good to know that our blog is so widely read, you wouldn’t believe some of the comments we get about it from small minded people with no perspective on life.
so true’raised here an trapped
Unfortunately, the above section about anti-intellectualism is nowhere to be seen on that wikipedia page now. Another act by “sellers” of brand en zed. Its Exactly what the above article “Do not move to New Zealand” is all about. Thankfully, this site is not something like wikipedia that “anyone can edit”, otherwise it would have been wiped out completely by the orders of immigration en zed!
Fortunately and we’ve been successful in keeping E2NZ a Kool-Aid free zone. Shame the same can’t be said about either Wikipedia or New Zealand.
Seems like they took the reference out earlier this year. http://theaotearoaproject.wordpress.com/2013/03/27/is-new-zealand-really-anti-intellectual/ “Flight from thought” Maybe that accounts for their running kids over in driveways all the time. They live very much in the present.
I strongly advise people who want to immigrate to New Zealand not to look at Internet publicity. People are rude and far from being friendly. When it rains you know!!! Doesn’t stop for hours. Nz is not a welcoming country for tourists. People are grabber. Cost of living is so high which you won’t be able to save a penny. If you think of moving here DON’T. Big fat mistake!!!!
I read this some time ago. Balanced perspective, but note that she mentions the marketing does not reflect reality and other things. http://www.expatarrivals.com/article/interview-with-molly-an-american-expat-living-in-new-zealand
Everything is true.. the country is also a bad place for investment. You won’ t get good returns.
I was born in NZ and have lived here most of my life. I totally agree with many of the comments on here and am glad that someone finally has got the balls to be honest about NZ. I live in Auckland but have lived in Queenstown, Hamilton, Gisborne and Paihia. However, to be honest I do not want to go back to living in any of those places. Queenstown was probably the best place to live in regards to friendly people but the majority of them are foreign!!! And you need to have a TON of money or rich parents to live off…..Gisborne was probably the cheapest because there is nothing to do!! Yes, there are lovely, empty beaches but all you can do is stand on the sand and marvel at the scenery and pretend you are in ‘The Piano’ because the surf is way too rough to swim in. I have become very jaded about this country and have not even had the bad experiences that a lot of people have had that have posted on this site. I lived in London for a year, there were a lot of my kiwi mates over there too. It used to royally piss me off whenever we went out to a pub because all they would do is talk to the HUGE amount of fellow Kiwis/ Aussies that were there. And we would only ever go to the Walkabout (Aussie pub) or The Redback (another Aussie pub) Why do you go to the UK only to go to Aussie pubs and only stay in London and travel to Europe??? Because the money is way better, and you can bring it back to NZ to buy a house. There is no way in hell that you can afford a house if you stay in NZ. FACT. Ha, all the Kiwis do is live in London for as long as possible to make money that they can’t make here. They use the fact that their parents were born in the UK to stay as long as they can….typical user Kiwi attitude. The majority of my friends do not live in NZ anymore because THERE IS NO MONEY HERE. I could go on about this shitty little hellhole full of arrogant, racist rugby head munters for days….Aussie, Europe, China here I come….GET ME OUTTA HERE!!!!
Few of you really made me laugh. I mean seriously, talking like that of New Zealand being based on the weather being worst than California, weren’t you supposed to check the weather before you move to another country? Or the life style? Wages? Prices? History?? I’m thinking of the first article, ” I am not rich, boaty and do not fetishize nature.” well dude, if you knew that it was like that, why did you move?
Don’t get me wrong, there is bad things going on in New Zealand, like the GCSB bill for example, but saying that a country sucks because it rains and it’s cold and there no central heating blablabla is really unfair… Kiwis are the most simple and adorable people I’ve ever met, yes there are simple, maybe not so much educated but they have a heart, they are not complaining about selling a Lexus to go to another country and being disappointed (these people weren’t ready for moving overseas). Kiwis are true and simple, they are not fake, not saying that all of you guys are fake but today we are worried about not saving thousands per year, about loosing our super cars or our little comfort, be happy with what you have. Man, there are many people who doesn’t even have water to drink. If you are too scared of loosing your comfort, do not move overseas. There are some really interesting comments and stories that worth to be followed with people who are really in bad situations, but this is not necessarily due to New Zealand or it’s people, this is just life.
Another thing: ” New Zealand is a struggle of a place to get by in”? Which country isn’t?? This is pretty normal that immigration doesn’t want any body to come in, otherwise they would end up like France. ”Kiwis really do not want migrants taking their jobs. They do like migrants spending money in the economy, however.” once again: who does not?? All countries are like that! It’s not only New Zealand.
I’m student in New Zealand right now, working part time and my parents aren’t wealthy, I won’t say it is easy but it is feasible! Why? How? Because I was ready for it, I went on the Internet and made my researches on the country to know if I was able to do it.
Before moving to another country you have to get information on the country you’re moving in and not looking for the best restaurants in town, it’s basic! And you find that anywhere on the Internet. Budgeting as well! If you think that the life level is not what you expected, then don’t go. You don’t move to another country because a friend told you to. AND the most important thing, you have to be ready to left what you have behind you, and I’m not only talking about the family, I’m talking about life style, house, weather, wages… everything has to be taken into account. Once you integrate that, then you are ready to move.
I think that almost everyone experience a big change when they arrived, which is quite normal, and the reason why is because you weren’t ready for these changes and it was a mistake which is ok, I don’t blame anyone for that, you didn’t do anything wrong, just don’t blame the country for this mistake.
To all the people who are in a really bad situation, I hope it will get better for you.
Read this. http://www.expatexposed.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=926 The people on here and on that site are saying that New Zealand’s reality was not evident before visiting and (then) going to live there. At the same time, New Zealand publcised itself as being something it wasn’t. When many of these people moved to New Zealand, authentic “intelligence” about the actual conditions of life there could not be found. I myself was certainly not rich before moving there, was not consumerist, and lived a frugal lifestyle. New Zealand is this – lower-middle-class British people and Polynesians transplanted to a chunk of rural Eastern Europe in the middle of the ocean, with South Pacific flora, Scottish weather. too many drugs, and an enormous chip on the shoulder. I have lived in France, and I can say with fervor that I much preferred it to New Zealand. This site and the one mentioned above would not have been set up for a place like France, because its downsides are more well known. New Zealand’s were not. Now that the information is out there on the web, it is hoped that people have a resource available to consult before they move. When many of the complainants moved to New Zealand in the late 1990s and early-to-mid-2000s, honest and realistic information was not there, and their shock was a rude one.
Frenchie, you can do weather research on the Internet. You might run into some rain on a recon to New Zealand. Easy enough to find out about the weather. But before 5-7 years ago, the fact that the weather actually comes INDOORS in New Zealand was not well known. Coming from a country with tighter building standards to a country of overpriced mouldy shacks was a shocker for many of us. Kiwis had no idea that their indoors could be more comfortable, and their children healthier. If you bill yourselves as First World but in truth, you’re Second World on a good day, a First World family might not want to move there. We thought the standards would be the same, at the very least, because this island nation likes to classify itself with countries like the UK, Canada, and so on. It is not in the same quality of life category at all. http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/4627954/UN-rebukes-New-Zealand-for-child-poverty
I’m living- scrub that- surviving in NZ….
Been here since I was 4yrs old, travelled to Europe in my late teens, lived and worked in Europe until my late 20’s, came home for a visit, met my soul mate- we travelled to UK in 1999 for 2 years, came home and been here since- we just spent 6 weeks travelling around France and we are both now wanting to pack up and leave for good. Its almost like every-time you get one step forward, some one with a set of rules and a clip board pegs you back two.
Kiwi’s love nothing more to not just cut, but to rip the heads off anyone who outs their head up above the level of anyone else.
Sure there’s some good aspects, but the whole wonderful, clean green 100% pure thing is bull shit- speaking of which- this place is ruled by the needs of the producers of the bovine poo. If its not squeezed out of the cows tit its second class.
I also enjoy cycling, which in NZ is an extreme sport or activity. Forget bungy jumping, if you want to do an activity that puts your life at risk, ride a bike on a public road in NZ. Ask any local cyclist how to commit the perfect murder in NZ and we will all tell you stick your target on a bike and hit them with a car- the law will pat you on the back!
I want out!
http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/adventure/2012/02/is-new-zealand-too-dangerous-for-cycling/
Luckily I found this page as I and my family just about move to nelson, nz in two months. We have to change our plan not to leave australia for New Zealand. I admit that these opinions are effect my second seriously thought over and over again. Perhaps New Zealand is just a very nice country for us to holiday from Australia, but not for living!
Thank you so much for the article! It is helping lots of people who want to move to New Zealand to rethink again seriously.
I think I might have been put off. We wanted to go into the prison service then head for OZ later. But all what you have wrote scares me what do do now??? Help!!!????
As much as reading these comments upset me, I agree with a lot of them. I have lived in NZ my whole life and have always wanted something MORE. I never really got why anyone moved here, I find NZ absolutely boring and downright expensive. It’s very, very hard to get a job here and unless you work for a large franchise, you’ll get crappy pay. Our education system is a far cry from the UK, and I’m only planning on staying here for university – which I must add is a treat for NZers. It’s very rare in some places in NZ to be able to go to Uni. As for dentistry, I have no idea who you have been hanging out with but all of my friends have lovely teeth. But, my parents forked out 6k for me to have braces, which you can get for free some places. All my childhood I have wanted to leave this place, even living in our biggest city (Auckland), I feel claustrophobic and I can’t wait to move to the UK.
What are you basing your comparison of schooling from the UK to NZ? I am a nanny here in London and have friends here who are teachers from NZ, and they cannot believe the schools here. Private Chelsea schools where the children do their sports lessons in a church across the road is no way for a child to be raised or have their sports lesson. The boys have exams at age 7!!! the amount of pressure and homework they get is shocking and they have very little time in their day to play and behave like children should, just being silly sometimes.
Yes being in the UK is an amazing experience, I do love it here, but once you move away and see other places, it’s easy to see why people love NZ. We have an amazing relaxed lifestyle that here in London we just do not have. Sure there is a lot more going on in London, but it can also be a big lonely city that eats you up and spits you out.
Oh for heavens sakes you’re judging the whole of Britain solely on the basis of Chelsea! One city in a modern progressive country and you compare it to the whole of New Zealand? Do you realise how parochial you sound? Get out and see something of the country before your visa runs out, open your mind a little,stop hanging out with your self reinforcing Kiwi mates and perhaps you’ll come to realise NZ isn’t all its cracked up to be. Bet you can’t wait to get back, we shan’t be sorry to lose you either.
Frankly, Emma, I wish all these Kiwis abroad would simply return to their beloved white cloudland and “enjoy” surviving in New Zealand the rest of their lives if they think it’s so great there. Catch them at the airports and send them right back to deal with their own poverty, drug abuse, rape culture and obscene cost of living. Force them not to bugger off right out of Uni and stick around there, try to find jobs.
I have applied and received my permanent residency – you really shouldn’t assume a person situation. My husband and I work full time, pay taxes, take part in our shires community events and our sons school events. We have made many new friends in Perth (regardless of nationality) and embraced it’s culture without handouts. I have the right to vote and apply for citizenship and for now consider Australia as my home. My family and I are also revisiting Europe this year to explore.
That’s absolute rubbish only Australian citizens have the right to vote in Australia. Perhaps the OP is getting mixed up with New Zealand where permanent residents CAN vote? I doubt that this person is authentic. She is obviously a troublesome troll with a personality problem. You can take the girl out of the village…….
Thank you but we are well aware of Smilez alot’s authenticity.
Some of her contributions didn’t comply with our comments guidelines and weren’t published. She does appear to have a mighty chip on her shoulder about something. New Zealand, probably.
On edit… Her posts (deleted) have since become abusive and confrontational. In accordance with our Comments guidelines her profile has been marked ” disruptor”. So, no Smilez alot – you do not have a “right” to speak on this forum.
Please see our comments section for further guidance.
Troll – ouch. Sorry you are right, I can’t vote in NZ. I did have that mixed up with NZ policies. However I didn’t move to Perth to vote so didn’t include that as part of my research. Personality problem? I’m certainly not the one rubbishing other countries, calling people names or racists. My posts tell immigrants about my good experiences of NZ.
There’s a state election today in Australia. It is impossible that anyone would be unsure of their voting status on such a day. That is because if one is eligible it is illegal not to register and illegal not to vote.
… Oops again , you seem to be the ONLY one.
take part in our shires community events and our sons school events.
How’s Cronulla going?
The information available about New Zealand, and which you learn in a short visit and from talking to people, as this poster said (see url below), does not tell you enough about the experience of living there. I certainly hope that this forum and E2NZ and undeleted posts on less “free” forums, are giving people a better idea of what New Zealand is like. In the late 90s and early 2000s, the gritty details about real everyday life in New Zealand were not really out there for people to learn. They know more now, as a result of some exposure and consciousness-raising, and migrants have less of an excuse for making a bad choice. Which, unless you come from a very poor developing nation and will take even a taxi-driving job to get by, or are rich and want a place to berth your yacht, is a bad place to migrate to. Such lying-ass hype about the lifestyle, give me a break. We lived there for some years and were glad to leave.
http://www.expatexposed.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=53933
From the majority of comments I read I’m unclear of what immigrants expectations were of NZ are before they have made their choice to move to NZ (apart from a couple that have said for marriage). The handful that didn’t make the right choice in their move don’t tell their full story about why they left their home country in the first place. ‘The misery is over’, I’m glad it’s over for you and I’m sure NZ is glad to see you leave. Sorry that a safe, balanced lifestyle isn’t for you.
It isn’t for you either 🙂
Yes you did ask us to move here, your immigration minister wants thousands more of us to help with your rebuild “There is no doubt in my mind that the rebuild is going to require a significant number of migrant labour” http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1308/S00380/woodhouse-2013-nzami-annual-conference-opening-address.htm
He also admits to migrant exploitation “Any exploitation of migrant workers is completely unacceptable. The Government has been clear from the outset that more needs to be done to stamp out this abhorrent practice. I’m optimistic that the changes we made in June to encourage victims of exploitation to come forward will pay dividends.
We’re also planning to introduce an amendment to the Immigration Act in the next few weeks to make it a specific offence to exploit migrants who hold temporary work visas. The proposed penalty will reflect the seriousness of the offence – a jail sentence of up to seven years, a fine not exceeding $100,000. ”
It’s obvious that Kiwis are hostile and predatory towards migrants, remember we are guests in your country and you treat us like dirt, thanks for that pal. Obviously we are all suckers for coming here and deserve to get crapped on. I for one cannot wait to get out, remember that next time you need a teacher for your kid, a builder to fix your EQ damage or a GP for your mom.
@Overpaid, some good points made there. There is obviously a disconnect between what the man in the street wants and what the NZ government wants and the messages it is sending out abroad (eg. Targeted advertising in Ireland, 100% pure etc.)
The fact remains if New Zealand retained its own people and recompensed them appropriately for their skills it would not need migrant labour to make up the shortfall. If New Zealand is such a great place to live and work why didn’t the “we’re full” signs go up decades ago?
Perhaps what migrants should be asking themselves is this: how come NZ doesn’t have anyone to do the work I’m applying for? Finding the answer to that beforehand may save them a lot of grief.
The “who you know, not what you know” aspect of NZ employment is a huge obsticle to progress for NZ and for people coming to NZ. Village mentality is a defence mechinism. If you only hire people that do things the same way its’ been done or won’t say anything about how it is done elsewhere [either because they don’t know anything else, or won’t say anything so as not to be viewed as a “trouble maker”], then everything stays the same. Technical expertice is not as highly valued as “political correctness”.
In the US, technical expertice is highly valued, and who you are or who you know is not as valued. Value is based on what you can produce, or merit.
So, as a expat in NZ, you have a very hard time “breaking in” as you are an unknown and are suspect as to “how” you will react. In the US, how you react is way less important than how much you’ll produce.
The media in NZ is limited in scope, not many outside NZ hear or see anything that comes from here. This is not the case with US media.
NZ gets to see everything about the US, the US sees a very filtered view of NZ. The media internaly in NZ does a fairly good job of being objective.
There are so many foreign engineers running dairies and driving taxis that its a national disgrace. Take this guy for instance, http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/9109785/The-darker-side-of-consumer-convenience – condemned to repeated acts of terrorism from any two bit thug wanting a pack of smokes. Great lifestyle choice, not.
I’ve observed that the problems given prominence are “foreign engineers educated overseas with limited English”.
They don’t dare to speak about international students, educated in NZ, proficient in English, that cannot find a job in their field, no matter that it is present on the skills shortage list, and the person was educated locally (in courses where even the locals … failed to complete).
That is a huge elephant in the room that they can’t excuse which stinks of racism and “squeezing” international students, that pay 4 – 5x the fees of domestic students.
P Ray, why did you choose to up root and move to another country to study? Was it possibly because the cost to study in your own country was even higher than studying in NZ or was it just that you wanted to pay higher study fees but live in NZ for some other reason you aren’t sharing in this forum? Now you have had completed your study and shared your hatred of NZ perhaps your own country can offer you the dream job you are looking for. NZ does not hide that fact that if someone comes to NZ under the skilled migrant list that NZ will still balance job vacancies or acceptance into the country based on the number of skilled NZers that can do the same job (whether they got an A+++ or a C – pass is a pass). I believe most countries follow that basic concept.
You are referring to the Kiwis First policy? Lucky for you they don’t have an Aussies First policy in Perth isn’t it? Where would you be then? Stuck in NZ.
That’s right….isn’t this forum about NZ policies and enlightening immigrants – not about Aussies policies (however BTW OZ has a skilled migrants list too, if you aren’t on it, start looking at an expensive visa process or no perm residency). Anyway once again you have jumped to assumptions about my work capabilities or residency. I have worked and studied since leaving high school so no matter what job it was in, I took those skills to build up my CV until I was able to earn an average comfortable wage no matter what job I was in or where I chose to live. Stuck in NZ, hey I wouldn’t care if that was the case. It is a great place to live.
Which is why you live in Perth?
Was it possibly because the cost to study in your own country was even higher than studying in NZ or was it just that you wanted to pay higher study fees but live in NZ for some other reason you aren’t sharing in this forum? ?
Glad you think I’m from a country where study in NZ is cheaper. The person with better English gets the kudos 🙂
Now you have had completed your study and shared your hatred of NZ perhaps your own country can offer you the dream job you are looking for.
Wrong. (Technical) Education in NZ is good. However, outside the university, there are people who do not want to see foreigners who honestly paid their way and worked through, succeed.
Again, why no coverage of qualified-in-a-skills-shortage-area international students being jobless?
Z does not hide that fact that if someone comes to NZ under the skilled migrant list that NZ will still balance job vacancies or acceptance into the country based on the number of skilled NZers that can do the same job (whether they got an A+++ or a C – pass is a pass). I believe most countries follow that basic concept.
Sorry, I’m not a “skilled migrant”, I’m an international student that began and completed their qualifications in NZ.
P.S. I did try to ask John Key about the Silver Fern migration policy, but the Student Union president at my university, refused to address or acknowledge me asking questions.
Ok so you have covered that the cost of study was less expensive in your own country (or have you?) Your comment didn’t actually clear that up. You have had a ‘whoop whoop’ moment about your perfection of the English language which in a forum where txt language comes into play really isn’t relevant to NZ living is it? You have admitted that NZ education is good. And that you didn’t come to NZ as a skilled migrant. So from your post, you are an immigrant, that came to NZ, chose to pay more for NZ schooling because as you admit the schooling is good – but still haven’t said why you chose to move to NZ, pay higher school fees then stay in NZ . If it isn’t working for you, go back home and get the job you chose to pay huge amounts to study for if it isn’t available in NZ. Or was part of your study plan moving straight into a NZ job after studying in NZ?
I’ve had no experience with NZ schooling. Only the university-level education, of which only 40,000 of the 4 million Kiwis have degrees. That’s 1%.
Are you working with immigration NZ? Why your fantastic interest in the specifics of me personally?
Because if you are, you’re not doing a good job of coming clean towards skilled immigrants, international students OR domestic students about job opportunities, salary scales, working hours or political representation.
Aren’t you the same guy who said people get jobs because of who they know not what they know ? Dude you sound like a bullshit artist go home.
I think you have misunderstood my post. I was not talking about employers hiring people they personally know and certainly not those who have questionable skills.
What I really mean is that usually, I’d say 90% of the time when someone is hired it came in some way from recommendation. That could be as simple as a simple reference check to confirm someone’s suitability.
An example of this happened the other day when a colleague of mine was hiring someone. In this case the applicant had been working for a specific client who my colleague knew personally. Had that connection not been there, it is unlikely (or less likely) he would have been hired.
NZ is one big Village? How could a one of NZ’s “Villages” be listed as one the top 10 Most Livable “Cities” in the world for 2013? What is your definition of a village? Not over populated comes to mind.
It’s a metaphor.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=village
But not liveable enough, which is why you’re Perth?
the quality of life index studies only measure certain things. sometimes only certain statistics are provided by countries or are available from countries for those studies. New Zealand leaves out certain poverty and crime statistics for its population for instance. because it does not collect them.
http://www.expatexposed.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=37922
http://www.expatexposed.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=26580
http://www.expatexposed.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=29 check out deal breakers of Kiwi life!
Perhaps those measures are what the majority of immigrants are looking for.
So why don’t you live in it then, and have you not heard , the Internet is not a reliable source? If the world realy knew what is going on in NZ……
@ Smilez alot. You need to get out of your comfort zone, Perth is hardly that different from life in New Zealand and you already had friends living there to ease your transition. Perhaps a stint in the US as an immigrant would broaden your mind somewhat, you may feel differently about a place if it wasn’t just a larger version of what you’re already used to.
Perhaps if I made a decision to emigrate to USA, I may one day apply. However based on my research, tales from friends, and media about the USA, it would’t even be a place I would consider taking a holiday in at this point in time or near future. My partner and I have plans this year to visit Europe and may consider an immigration if we find the right place. Coming from NZ to Perth was out of my families comfort zone. No other family members who we were used to seeing daily, no house, no job, a lot larger and very expensive – yip we had 2 friends that where able to put us up for 1.5wks then we had to find a place of our own in an expensive city with the lowest amount of rentals available of any city in Oz. Still here and happy so made it work eh. Moving to any country regardless of how far away it is,is out of anyone’s comfort zone. Sticking it out is the hard part.
What do our US readers feel about the comparison that has been drawn between their country and New Zealand? Which one do you think is more accurately depicted by its media and immigration industry, where would you prefer to live? No points for using “100% pure” “Godzone” or “middle earth” in your answers .
I think the dangers and hassles of the U.S. are very well publicized, and even exaggerated for a number of reasons, including the fact that the U.S. is “overexposed, in the spotlight” and has been for decades now. Everyone has seen the homeless tent cities and has heard healthcare expense scare stories, lurid crime headlines, military budget figures, been bombarded with Hollywood crap on their TVs all over the world. The big secret about America is that underneath all the awful press, America is a great place to live an everyday life. The big secret about New Zealand is that underneath all the beautiful scenery, Middle Earth movies and lifestyle hype, it is actually an unpleasant and difficult place to live a normal middle-class Western life. I lived almost 10 years in New Zealand, for some periods of time in other countries, and many years in America, and yes, I did my research before going to New Zealand. And yes, I had friends and relatives in New Zealand to ease our migration. I maintain that New Zealand is a struggle of a place to get by in, and Kiwis really do not want migrants taking their jobs. They do like migrants spending money in the economy, however.
Very true and I agree. It i very hard to get ahead here as an outsider and differenced in lifestyle, religion or culture are very hard for the average Kiwi to accept. Many people in NZ work positions that they are not even qualified to do and it is hard to understand why people are in high salary positions with no degrees or management skills…
The hard part is living in NZ, not sticking it out somewhere else.
“New Zealand’s lifestyle and relatively clean environment have often tempered concerns about the brain drain. But while most expats agree their homeland is beautiful and safe, that isn’t nearly enough to lure them back.
Peter Bryant, 54, arrived in the United States 16 years ago after a stint in Australia.
Bryant shifted to Orange County, California, last week from Denver, Colorado. He started a strategy consulting business 10 years ago, and has founded two businesses from scratch.
“We complain a lot here, about friction in the system and regulation. But the whole process is very easy – to create a business and shut down a business,” Bryant jokes.
How likely is it he will return to live in New Zealand? “I never liked predicting the future, but right now it would be a really large zero,” he says. “My wife’s Australian and she feels the same about Australia.”
Bryant says Antipodeans would be wrong to believe nowhere else could match their lifestyle. He says the US has a special dynamism, a sense of possibility hard to match.
“The productivity gains in this country are rather stunning. There’s a reasonable level of regulation but it’s not overbearing.”
“Return unlikely
New Zealand sports hero Sir Peter Snell retired from his University of Texas job this week, but revealed he may never return home.
Snell won three Olympic gold medals, including an 800m/1500m double in Tokyo in 1964 and was recognised as New Zealand’s athlete of the 20th Century. He has been based in the United States for more than 40 years and has been a professor at the university since 1981.
He remained surprised by the reaction to his off-the-cuff comments at a function in Barcelona last year, when he compared his lack of opportunity after his sporting career to the fate of Russell Coutts. It prompted a strong NZ Herald editorial, which talked of Snell holding a “grudge”.
“What I would say now is that back then I felt like I had a future-less existence in New Zealand. I thought I had the academic capacity but couldn’t see a way of propelling myself into a decent situation. I had the talent but I was defined by exams that I had done at 16 or 17.”
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11117589
Great to see so many Kiwis doing well overseas, so few of them ever want to return and why w
Should they, what is there to come back to?
Hiya! Stumbling across this website and seeing all the hateful comments about NZ and its people was devastating. My husband and I are Kiwis and lived there for 35yrs until deciding to move to Perth for a change – not to get away from NZ but just to explore and to be closer to our best friends who are ozzies. Growing up and living in NZ as a child and in adulthood was safe. We have close friends who are immigrants from numerous countries – we respected and enjoyed being part of the traditions our immigrant work colleagues/friends brought to our country within the workplace and outside the of work.
We lived in Rotorua and Hamilton and whilst I admit as a young family (with 1 child), not coming from rich backgrounds we struggled at first. However we put in the hard yards, both worked full time in average jobs and came out on top. Managed to purchase our own home at GV rate with a low interest rate of 5.25% and owned a couple of high performance cars. NZ recognised a few years ago the importance of insulation, heating and preventing mildew infested houses and currently offers grants to help people fix these issues. Our son had excellent education in NZ with the teachers keeping us up to date regularly if he was experiencing issues or stepping out of line. From first hand experience when we moved to Perth it was like starting from scratch. We didn’t just walk into jobs, we went out and searched. We had to learn the differences between living in NZ and Oz and respected their way of living – taking the good and the bad. From sheer dedication we have got back on our feet after 2yrs. Our wages are the same as they were in NZ and we have found it is alot more expensive to live in Perth than it was in NZ but we made a decision to move here and we will make it work regardless of what curve balls life throws at us – We concentrate on what’s good about the move! We didn’t make our decision to move here based on what The Australian Government said or how they Portrayed Australia. Sorry to be rude but anyone that does that is idiotic! Yes NZ has earthquakes, -0 temps and droughts. Mother nature will do as she does in any country (USA, Japan, China, UK, Thailand I think you can all agree you have had your fair share!!). Research before you move to NZ – don’t base your move on what any govt department says, regardless of what country you are going to. NZ is laid back, people are friendly, inviting and willing to give you the shirt off their back. It has something for everyone, if you really want it. Kia kaha.
Not really a fair comparison. “Perth is now Australia’s most expensive city and the eleventh priciest to live in worldwide, according a renowned online cost of living index.” So, of course, even NZ will seem like a better deal if just comparing the numbers.
http://www.perthnow.com.au/money/cost-of-living/perth-is-australias-most-expensive-city-according-to-numbeo/story-fnhld5o2-1226677289063
>>NZ recognised a few years ago the importance of insulation, heating and preventing mildew infested houses and currently offers grants to help people fix these issues.
Right, just because Campbell Live does a show or two on a topic and the Dom Post features a couple stories, doesn’t mean that a realisation leads to any major change. Many houses with such problems are rental houses, and the ‘grants’ are not a sufficient inducement for rental property owners/managers to upgrade. The root problem isn’t the funding, it’s the kiwi attitude towards rental property; the poor quality of construction relative to the rest of the world; and the impotent tribunal and justice system in New Zealand that promotes gang justice and economics.
Sorry that you feel offended by the negative comments on New Zealand, but NZ is a gang culture. If you are born into it (or marry into it successfully), you are accepted as a ‘patched’ member. Otherwise, you must always be wary.
Fair comparison? I think this is exactly a comparison that people need to see. We moved to a place that was more expensive to live in than NZ yet still able to live life within our means on the same wage and fit into to the culture regardless of it being more expensive. People are complaining about the move from where they are and NZ more expensive. Perhaps people are trying to live a similar lifestyle to where they are living now which probably isn’t possible ‘hence do research before moving’. LOL we actually brought our home in NZ, put in insulation, HRV and heat pump through our own pocket before renting it out. Not on the advice of “Campbell Live”. I have no idea what you are referring to as “patched member” but sounds like a racist remark to me, Go figure…
Exactly. Which is why you live in Australia like 20% of the New Zealand population. It’s amusing that you seem to be bragging about your limited income, as though lack of ambition or stinginess are something to be proud of. You seem to imply that New Zealand is some sort of thrift store paradise, when it actually offers little value for money. For the price of the mediocre house in Auckland, Wellington, and Christchurch, you could buy a really nice home in a world-class city. You boast about adding insulation and an HRV to your rental house as though that makes you special, when you are certainly the exception and not the rule.
The criticism that many have about New Zealand is due to the endemic cultural delusion you display: that poor value for money is a virtue, while living a better life in Australia as a hypocrite. The complaints many have about NZ aren’t about living a life of luxury; rather, NZ’s fatal flaw is that it costs a luxury income to live a life a of poverty.
We chose to live in Australia because of friends and exploring. I have no idea why other kiwis move to Oz. We made the decision based on our own decision and research, not because of govt advertising or that we were unhappy. Bragging of income? Once again will repeat our income in Oz was the same in Nz and is considered as mid or average when compared with world statics. The income we earned in NZ was able to buy us the same lifestyle in a more expensive country. Our ambition and work ethics have remained the same (work 8-5 Mon to Fri, no sickies/excuses and move up the ladder where possible to live a comfortable lifestyle) We are not out to be millionaires if that’s what you consider as “ambition”. Limited income gets us where we want to be…a safe neighbour-hood, fine education for our son, a house, cars and holidays – if that’s considered as poverty then I have no idea why someone would give up the lifestyle you talk about to move to NZ? There was no boasting about putting in insulation – we saw a problem with the house we brought and fixed it before renting.. You are saying we are the exception to the rule. Perhaps your negative limited experiences of the kiwis you have met or what your read about are the exception to the rule. Sorry for your handful of sad experiences.
So you say. In the end, you live in Australia and that says it all, regardless of whatever reasons you tell yourself or others.
Yeah that speaks volumes. It’s like saying I love my wife but can’t bear to live with her. That’s why millions of kiwis are in *long distance* relationships.
I, like any person have the right to explore the world. Just because I have chosen after 35yrs of living in NZ to move to another country does not in any way say I couldn’t bear to live there and doesn’t mean I will never move back. And when you say millions of Kiwis (born and bred NZers) have “long distance relationships” you must be using the world millions very lightly – do your research before stating numbers. If you say millions of NZers live abroad that must mean by your calculations, the people who are living in NZ right now must consist mostly of immigrants.
Moving from New Zealand to Perth with its large Kiwi expat community is hardly “exploring the world” more like moving from the village to the city. You didn’t even have to apply for a visa to get there, just packed your bags and walked right on in. Your opinions would carry more credence if you made the investment of applying for permanent residency and took up Australian citizenship. Then you could start contributing to your adopted country in a more meaningful way. Voting in the forthcoming election, or jury service perhaps. Why don’t you make the same commitment to Australia that migrants to your homeland are making?
Be honest Smilez a lot, you didn’t have to go through the immigration process that most migrants to NZ get thrust upon them. You have two options open to you: make Australia work because you’re a Kiwi on a SCV and not entitled to unemployment benefit; or return to NZ. The Australian government didn’t have to attract you there because you’re practically in its backyard and have a passport that lets you come and go as you want.
Take a look at the hard sell that is presented on the NZ immigration website and compare that to Australia’s information for prospective immigrants. Notice the difference? Then try to imagine how people who live thousands of miles away from New Zealand, with little or no first hand experience of the country, may form an impression of It. You have to ask yourself this: If New Zealand is such a great place why does it need to promote itself with such um….vigor? Why does it have such massive skills shortages and why are Kiwis like you REALLY leaving?
Regarding skills shortages, I can only speak for engineering and can definitely say that there is a skills shortage.
I have a family member with their own consultancy business (civil/structural) based in a small north island city. They would like to expand but are unable to as they can’t find anyone and all the best graduates get snapped up by the big companies. As far as earnings go, they are earning more than I do and I’m based in London (also an engineering consultant). They recently received and offer from a large Australian company to buy them out and make him head of their NZ operations.
I’ll probably be accused of spreading propaganda, but I’m not trying to sell NZ to anyone and I do not work for NZ immigration.
I’ll repeat again that I can only speak for engineering, I do not know about the other professions on the skills shortage list.
Any Engineer who comes to NZ and can’t find work mustn’t be very good at looking.
Don’t you mean “goes to New Zealand”?
Why would an Australian company want to come in and buy a company that can’t recruit staff and has a weak skills base, sounds like there’s a recruitment and retention problem there. Perhaps the situation isn’t as rosy as your relative makes out? Certainly not lucrative enough to tempt you (or any one else) away from London, or anywhere else for that matter.
“Why would an Australian company want to come in and buy a company that can’t recruit staff and has a weak skills base”
It’s not the staff or skills base they are buying, rather the “good will” or brand of an established company with an existing client base and reputation and good will with those clients. That’s the value of any company, not the staff base. Staff can be recruited (in this case with the help of a larger company) and they can also leave at will.
In other words the Australian company is trying to get a slice of the Christchurch rebuild pie and a NZ letterhead on the cheap. They’ll keep the NZ staff to ensure authenticity and pay them lower NZ salary rates whilst hiving off the profits to its Australian HQ.
Do you understand the concept of branding? If an Australian company wants a slice of the Christchurch re-build pie they could easily come and set up their own office in NZ or bid for the projects from Australia.
Why would they need pay someone else to do that?
For most engineering companies, 99.99% of the value of the company is the good will and trust of their clients. The knowledge base of most engineering companies is not proprietary knowledge and is generally widely known in the industry, this is probably especially true for a civil/structural company. This is even true for most listed engineering companies, particularly if they are consultancy based and lack hard assets, as offices and hardware and equipment etc are usually rented and staff are actually liabilities as they have to be paid. Good will however can be worth millions or even billions in the case of the larger engineering companies in the world.
If an Australian company wants to get a foot in NZ, they can either buy someone else’s company, an established brand with trusted clients, or they can go it alone. In the former case this means they would have to spend a lot of money on marketing etc, but it takes a lot of time, effort and money etc to build a solid client base and there is no guarantee they would be successful in beating off the local competition from NZ companies.
Any Engineer who comes to NZ and can’t find work mustn’t be very good at looking.
What about the ones who graduate from your universities in, say, 2011, and are now on the benefit?
‘Cause I know one of them …
Why would an experienced skilled Engineer migrate to NZ to study? Pretty sure they would’ve been out looking for a job which they would’ve snapped up if living in Chch, especially after the EQ. However if they were an unskilled migrant that had moved to NZ to study with no experience, different story. P Ray you raise a subject that does grate against hard working NZers. A migrant claiming benefit even though they proclaimed to pay through the roof for study. And after 2yrs of graduation has ‘that person’ been on benefit for the full 2yrs or have they taken other work even though they feel they are over qualified. Or have they considered moving home.
You may have a comprehension problem.
Someone who GRADUATES with an engineering qualification FROM an NZ university …
IS NOT yet an “experienced skilled” Engineer, but is an Engineer nonetheless(and certainly WAY more qualified than a layman – what are your qualifications, by the way?).
And a heckuva lot more qualified than Gerald Shirtcliff too …
P Ray you raise a subject that does grate against hard working NZers. A migrant claiming benefit even though they proclaimed to pay through the roof for study.
Here’s you being unclear on NZ’s policies: how can a migrant claim the benefit – unless they’re NOT, i.e. they are a permanent resident, or citizen.
P.S. Can you tell me how migrants claim the benefit, it’s a tall tale if I ever heard one. And as usual, used to stoke hatred against migrants.
Besides, the person I am talking about is a Kiwi!
I fully agree E2NZ ! We got out of the hell hole after 5 years and again immigrated. Australia and its people are open, friendly , intelligent , broad and open minded, they have a great country, economy, and lifestyle, we feel welcome and for the first time in years it felt like home. The beaches and ski fields are far more beautiful than the country of unstable ground and sad to say, people.
I’m an New Zealander and I can only imagine how hard it would be coming from another country and way of living to somewhere completely new such as New Zealand. I agree that it is very expensive to live here and know through my European husband and his parents that it is a big cultural shock and very different from living in Europe. Yes there are some red necks here but tell me where there is not! There are some pretty awful and fantastic people I have come across in every country I’ve traveled to.
My experience of growing up in NZ is this. I grew up in a small coastal town not far from Wellington. I didn’t have rich parents but then I never went without the essentials either. Everyday after school my friends and I would walk down to the river from a swim or bike to the beach which was a good 25 min bike ride. We did a lot of bush walks in summer and winter. Wellington was not to far off so as teenagers it was pretty easy to access the small but vibrant city. My parents had a large group of friends so we were always a very social family. We also had Grandparents close by. I do feel lucky to have this sort of upbringing. It was pretty idyllic now that I look back on it.
To me the most important thing about where you live is having a network of people around you that you love and trust. Whether it’s family or friends. Just having people to share the good times with and to support you through the more difficult times is something I think everyone needs. Perhaps that is where some of the comments on this page stem from? People are missing the close relationships and support networks they had back home. If that is the case then I hope you can all make some close bonds and hopefully to some nice kiwi’s.
For those of you living in Auckland head down to the capital. It’s smaller and much easier to get around as well as being beautiful with some pretty cool people. If you need to escape the city you can always drive an hour east to the Wairarapa which is a great wine region. Hope you all have some more positive experiences soon!
Shame you couldn’t come up with any specific webcams “C”, we’ve yet to find any that give the type of detail you’ve described. Most of the better ones are off line due to faults or lack of funds. How peculiar you should be impressed about teeth and litter when most of the country is be-sett with earthquake worries. Perhaps your research isn’t quite as comprehensive as you believe?
Synonym please don’t feel obliged to answer “C”‘s questions, if she’s able to Google as well as she claims she probably already thinks she knows the answers 🙂
Synonym –
Please assist –
I’ve viewed NZ city webcams (streets are beautiful and clean), watched hours of 3news videos, listened to NZ radio, follow the current tunnel building drama, watch the crime rates/type of crime in the NZ Harold — I see no yellow teeth, no lack of humor, no beige colored personalities — I see an admirably rugged, reserved, and generally humble people. I see the same issues in NZ as in America, but on a smaller scale and made more pronounced, perhaps, due to the small population.
Is the above the accurate picture of NZ, or not?
I would not pretend to dismiss anyone’s experiences stated in this forum. Please, I don’t want to offend anyone. I’m just trying to get accurate balance in the whole picture of life in NZ and being with its people as an immigrant, with the help of everyone in this forum. So thank you all, again, for any input you’ve provided thus far.
I’d treasure hearing it straight from the hip from you, Synonym, since you live there. I’m not moving for a ‘greener’ anything really, and not escaping “Obama”. I’m not moving to be rich, get a man, have nice things, climb a career ladder, or to have a nice house/car. I do, however, want to be comfortable if I move to NZ, welcomed as an American, and able to consistently save for when I’m older and putting my ‘yellow’ wooden teeth on my night table. I plan on visiting NZ soon, for the purpose of personal research into moving.
Thank you very much in advance, Synonym. I look forward to your input.
Hey there Andrea (or is it C today?) please can you send us the links for those NZ City webcams, we’re putting together a page of them https://e2nz.org/live-web-cams/ most of them are focused on major roads and the scenery but if there’s any that show teeth we’d be delighted to see them.
NB…its the NZ Herald.
New Zealand Deliverance remake – Dueling Banjos
>>I’m not moving to be rich, get a man, have nice things, climb a career ladder, or to have a nice house/car.
– get a man? If you can’t find a suitable mate in the US then you probably have issues that NZ can’t solve. NZ has disproportionately high rates of social problems (drugs, gangs, spouse abuse, child abuse, poverty, etc.). The current government has stopped collecting statistics on social issues and has been suppressing research to avoid bad publicity. Most men are of the rugby mentality and would prefer to spend time drinking or socialising with their mates, not you.
– very few nice things available at a comparable price in NZ. Nice homes in the very few nice areas in NZ will cost 2-3x more than in a truly great city like SF. Nice cars will cost 2x as much, and they will be older models or designs. Electric cars? Not likely any time soon, so forget about a Tesla.
– most career ‘ladders’ are short and slippery. There are very, very few large employers in NZ, so the path to wealth lies in real estate accumulation and exploitation, large dairy farming, or maybe milking government contracts. If you are coming to NZ as an immigrant, you can pretty much forget about all three of these paths to wealth, as you really don’t have a chance.
You’ll do fine as an American if you immediately drink the cool-aide, start badmouthing the US, are willing to do anything to ingratiate yourself into social circles at the lowest end of the pond, and are happy to accept whatever the local social structure will allow you to have in terms of employment, housing or friends. That may suit your personality well. However, if you have some pride and are unwilling to let cultural or self delusion distort reality, then you should travel very light, spend as little as possible, keep a sizeable escape fund off limits, and review your decision in 3-5 years after you have really come to know the place.
Christ on a bike i just stumbled across this web page and i have to say some of you have had it rough. I suppose something rather amusing to me is that your complaints are also the same kiwis have of their own country it’s just not openly discussed.
Grass is Always greener on the other side i guess.
From a kiwi with 26 teeth remaining.
I wish more Americans who go to New Zealand realised what Kiwis become turned off by and why. They seem genuinely puzzled by reactions to certain behaviours and end up hanging out with one another, not mixing, from what I witnessed. I was often told “I did not realise you were from America, what a lovely quiet voice you have!” I did not know any Americans who walked around talking about their religion, that was one big WTF, except for the ones who immediately joined a Kiwi church, in which case they stayed in that circle and I never bumped into them. I was frequently mistaken for a Canadian after we’d been there for awhile. Once mentioning that I gave to a certain charity attracted a scathing comment about “what a Yank I was”, from an annoying Kiwi who had his own brand of rudeness he did not even consider as such. In making the comment, my intent was not to “brag” that I gave to a charity. It was part of a longer conversation in which I was pointing out in response to criticism that Americans “took from the world and didn’t give” that personal giving was something many normal Americans did. He then used my remark of patronising a charity as a platform to tell me how much more of a Yank I was for bragging! You can’t win. What an unpleasant place New Zealand was. I suggest that Lee write the “manners manual” for Americans visiting New Zealand. How nice for him to take this life opportunity to make a pile in Babylon and then leave for the One Pure Land with his bags of filthy lucre. Stress in this manual that rule number 1 is just “keep your mouth shut”. Don’t let them hear your accent and don’t talk about yourself at all. Any “I statement” will be regarded as bragging. Corollary, or rule number 2,. Keep your voice down and eliminate any regional dialect when you do talk. Google “accent rage”. Rule number 3. Keep your wallet open. In fact, rip holes in it so the money will flow out better. This will ensure they stay friendly towards you. Because that’s what you are there for – as a cash cow for Kiwis. Actually, better if you just stay in the U.S. and mail them money. Rule number 4. Bend over and just stay in that stance. It’s easier than leaning up and down, because after all, we’re lazy fat Yanks who don’t like exercise.
Salary? Same as you’re earning now, why accept less. Good
rule of thumb for making ends meet – buy your home outright. If you
do have a mortgage keep it to no more than 2.5 times your salary.
Be advised New Zealand has no capital gains tax, no stamp duty and
little to deter speculative overseas investors from buying up
property. Cashed up immigrants, Kiwis returning home and refugees
from Christchurch have also fueled demand for housing that is
deliberately kept in short supply. All of this has resulted in low
quality expensive houses, usually on small sections.
We were a family of 5 grossing (not netting) 54K NZD, and found it impossible with a mortgage on a lower-priced property in a rural area. The problem is when your circumstances change (loss of job, downsizing, change in workflow, air ticket home to visit a sick relative, etc.) or an unexpected expense presents itself (need to buy a new car). You don’t have a buffer in that case. You are “just surviving”, down to the wire. I can’t recommend living there. On the other hand, having basic health care for cheap is good. The other expenses and troubles of living there more than make up for that benefit, however.