Don’t Move to New Zealand

starving piggy bank

“I am so tired of Kiwis making a virtue of necessity – there’s nothing here to compensate for the forced pennypinching”

This story was originally published on the discussion forum Expatexposed.

A US migrant in New Zealand tells how grinding penny pinching becomes a way of life in NZ with nothing to compensate it, rather than a short term measure to get ahead.

The poster also tells of how carefully ‘Brand New Zealand’ is manipulated to attract people who turn out to be unsuitable migrants.

This is the sort of honesty that seldom gets published about New Zealand, and we’re honored to be able to host it here:

“I am so tired of Kiwis making a virtue of necessity. They should be honest that THAT is what it is – making do on a cute remote island. Nothing more than that. Not an arcane “lifestyle” to be aspired to (cue: clink wineglass of Sauvignon Blanc, look out to blue water, flash impossibly white teeth at partner that you would never see on a Kiwi because most of them don’t do dental).

There’s nothing here to compensate for the forced pennypinching – little opportunity, no rich culture, you can’t easily travel to other places for a change – nothing. The government and migration agencies are dressing New Zealand up and not being honest about what it is really like here – THAT is my biggest gripe.

If you are rich, boaty and/or fetishize nature, you will LOVE it here, and you won’t have to make sacrifices, or the sacrifices may well be worth it. I am not rich, boaty and do not fetishize nature.

I DO wear woolly socks and jumpers inside, and I did that before I came here. I shop secondhand “just because it is sensible”. I make food from scratch. I totally agree – it’s sensible and no less, regardless. I have NEVER had central heating or double-glazed windows in any house I have lived in, though I aspired to such back home where I was able to afford to buy my own house. I used to put thermal plastic sheeting on my windows to keep warm in winter. I will hunt that stuff down for this year in NZ if I haven’t been able to leave by winter. At home, I had a gas furnace (not a standalone heater) and my heating was, under a special distributive program where they spread the money out for winter heating to summer months so you don’t get these big lumps to pay in winter) about 80 a month USD (that’s about, what, 100 NZD?). Just to give you a comparison.

The difference is that back there, I lived this same way and was able to save money and get ahead by being frugal. I could afford better food and I didn’t have to darn big holes in socks. I’d darn a little hole or two and then when the socks persisted in developing more holes, I would give them away to the local animal shelter inside a pillowcase for the animals to use. I had money to travel and visit people.

I’ve lived frugally before – and was able to GET AHEAD by doing so. I was able to save thousands a year doing that. Here, you are FORCED to live that way just to keep your head above water, and you are lucky if you can save anything. Maybe some year upward mobility will pull you into its wake if you can catch the wave at the right time…you can only climb the rungs of the ladder with great difficulty in New Zealand, and just hope you don’t have a setback that sends you back to START. It’s easy to have that happen to you if you have no family here to cushion your setbacks for you.

I do not consider that the people of New Zealand are beneath me. I perceive that they “make do” valiantly with what they have. I have seen them be amazingly creative making good useful things out of nothing. The housewives use everything but the squeal. Jesus, do I have to want to live like that, though? This is admirable, and I’d do it if I had to, but why pay out the nose to do that? Kiwis are both shaped and limited by having to live that way. They don’t have time for intellectual pursuits? Just LIVING here occupies enough of their effort, so ok, it’s understandable (Google “culture of New Zealand”, “anti-intellectualism” if you think I am being a snob). People have crafted the Wiki entry to reflect reality, better, I think, since I came over some years ago, and I think prospective migrants should read it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_of_New_Zealand#Anti-intellectualism (See below*)
I don’t think you’re aware of how carefully they manipulate Brand New Zealand to attract people who in actuality turn out to be highly unsuitable migrants. That’s where I perceive my fight to be on EE, is representing the reality of New Zealand as I personally experienced it, as one of those unsuitable migrants, so I can prevent other people from making the same mistake I did. It’s the only way I can make lemonade out of my own lemons! That’s why many of the members post here – they are either venting or making sure the downside gets “out there”, hoping that googlers will be able to find and read it through all the net-bombing by “paradise”-mongers who are trying to represent New Zealand as a place that it is NOT.”

*Anti-intellectualism in NZ (Wikipedia)

“Unlike many European countries, but in common with other ‘Anglo’ countries such as Britain, the United States and Australia, New Zealanders do not have a particularly high regard for intellectual activity, particularly if it is more theoretical than practical. This is linked with the idea of ‘kiwi ingenuity’ (see above), which supposes that all problems are better solved by seeing what works than by applying a theory.

This distrust of theory manifested itself in social policy of the early and mid twentieth century, which historian Michael Bassett described as ’socialism without doctrines’: although the policies of the first Labour and other governments pursued traditionally socialist goals, they were not based on any coherent theory. A major break with this tradition came in the 1980s when the fourth Labour and fourth National governments enacted a series of reforms based on free market ideology.

This reinforced many New Zealanders’ distrust of intellectual theory, as many consider that the reforms increased poverty and inequality in New Zealand. Despite the prevailing mood of anti-intellectualism, New Zealand has reasonably high rates of participation in tertiary education and has produced a number of internationally renowned scholars and scientists, including Ernest Rutherford, J.G.A. Pocock and Alan MacDiarmid. It should be noted that both Rutherford and Pocock spent most of their professional lives in Britain. For many years this was a common occurrence, and a consequence both of New Zealanders’ attitudes and the low population which made it hard to support major research.

Attribution

Because New Zealanders often have to relocate to achieve worldwide fame and fortune, New Zealanders are keen to claim famous people as being New Zealanders, however short their residency in New Zealand might have been.

While people born in New Zealand are certainly identified as New Zealanders, those who attended a New Zealand school or resided in New Zealand also qualify, irrespective of national origin. This sometimes leads to famous people and innovations being identified as coming from both New Zealand and another country—such as the pop group Crowded House, the race horse Phar Lap and the actor Russell Crowe, all of whom have been associated with Australia and New Zealand.

Because the measure of New Zealand success was often how well a person did internationally, anything from ‘Overseas’ is seen as holding more cultural capital than the local equivalent, regardless of its quality.

This means that New Zealanders are often lured to the performances of “international acts”. This is exacerbated by New Zealand’s isolation and small population causing it to be skipped by the international tours of all but the most commercially successful musicians and performers. The flipside to this phenomenon is that famous people from overseas can be quickly embraced by New Zealanders if they visit regularly or for an extended period or claim an affinity with the country.”

.Comment left by staedtler

http://www.listener.co.nz/issue/3355/features/2475/the_unfriendly_isles.html
“We invite them to live here, then set them up for failure. Immigrants and refugees have a tough time settling in New Zealand, and it’s costing them – and us – dearly”

“New Zealand has never been particularly welcoming to immigrants, but a National Business Review-Phillip Fox poll this month suggested that attitudes of ordinary New Zealanders to non-white immigrants are hardening.”

“The requirements for immigration and the requirements for registration [as a teacher] are very different and it’s never been made explicit. So they come here on the basis of their teaching qualifications and can’t register. We suspect it’s the same with other qualifications, particularly those with a registration component, such as engineering.”

Although politicians attack migrants for “taking taxpayers for a ride” by claiming sickness and hardship benefits, a recent Victoria University survey found that a majority of New Zealanders are accepting of immigrants, but they have little to do with them. Those at the bottom of the socioeconomic heap who have most contact with them often perceive them as a threat. Chile was called in recently to sort out a dispute for an African migrant family who bought a house in South Auckland. “The people next door set the dog on the woman of the house and the children have been beaten up.”

(E2NZ.org is being updated all the time, for the latest of hundreds of migrant tales click on this link e2nz.org/tag/migrant-tales. If you would like to send us your migrant tale please leave it in the contribute section).

Everything you read on this site is genuine. We cite all our sources so people can judge the authenticity for themselves. People may not want to believe what they read here, and its easier to dismiss the site than deal with the numerous issues it raises; BUT that is what we call the “New Zealand condition.”

Let’s face it, if New Zealand was that great why does a country larger than Britain have more sheep than people, and a population of a little under 4.5 million. Did you know  >1 million Kiwis live overseas, ever wondered why they do that if ‘everything is awesome’?

Please take a while to read some of the comments that were left on this thread since it was first published in Feb 2010 – scroll to the bottom of the page to get them.

A Selection of Related articles from the Migrant Tales Series

779 thoughts on “Don’t Move to New Zealand”

  1. You can only go on personal experience and the Kiwis I’ve met around the world all appear to be very defensive of NZ…but they don’t actually seem to want to go back and live there. They seem like constant backpackers (even the older ones) and have no problem with outstaying their welcome. Freeloading is another word that springs to mind. Personal hygiene is also an issue as well as the insistence on walking around in very short cut offs in all weathers (I’m talking about the male Kiwis here) Not a pretty sight and a little feminine given the way that they like to talk about how manly they are!

  2. At least in the uk you can afford to go on holiday somewhere warm. Forget about a holiday if you move to Nz – so isolated and expensive as so few airlines that there is a monopoly here. eg – air nz charges a third more to fly the route nz to london, than it does on the exact same route from london-nz (how rude – knowing that from nz there is little choice so it rips people off from this end but not from london.) And in Nz houses are currently selling approx 400k over their GV due to high demand when they are auctioned, and are now the most unaffordable in the western world – mainly in auckland and christchurch – its almost criminal in my opinion.

    • Holiday some where warm. Must have missed the french chalets that were being doled out at Heathrow when I last went through customs, Possibly the 3.4m unemployed and the young familys struggling to get loans to buy the first property (let alone cope with the sharply rising cost of food, petrol and alike) might well have a different view. the pound is also worth nearly half what it was 10 years ago due to the UK governments propensity to print new money…

      • How are young families managing in New Zealand to buy their first home, could you tell us how the New Zealand government is helping them and give us an indication of the median property prices for the areas of major population, mortgage interest rates, unemployment rate among young people and the minimum wage? Thank you.

        • They dont buy homes they all rent crappy little boxes lol anyone who owns a home is considered rich and a target for the local population.

        • They dont help now. Entry criteria is so strict it is near impossible!! Nevermind also that now we have to have minimun of 20% deposit now aswell. So thats 20% of 300-400k if you want an averagely nice house but even that will not have double glazing, underfloor gas heating, and all that stuff. Plus hardly any of us average families with or without children here can earn enough to support the dream of owning our own home at any point in our lives because the cost of living (essential things and the usual western things like a tv, cable & internet which is slow by the way) is so steep and wages so low! I cant wait for the day I can move out of NZ! I’m 23 y/o female, been working since age 15 and still at the bottom the heap earning minimum wage coz employers refuse to pay more- and I am an educated woman with brains.

          I was born here, 3rd or 4th generation. I am half “white” (Irish and Spanish) and half Indian) and no guesses here I have been bullied MY WHOLE LIFE coz kiwi’s are racist/closed minded as a whole!! And also my name isn’t a conventional girls name so people be mean to me about that too! So I’m a fair skinned looking Indian girl with a English/Gaelic name *Blair* which I’m sure you UKers here would think nice or normal??
          NZ people I meet find too hard to accept me for who I am, and no I’m not proud to call myself a Kiwi!
          If youre not white dont expect to fit in easily, even if you’re white but have an accent.
          Right from young age child to presently this year, I get remarks even now such as the way I look, people talk slow to me like they think I dont know nz english or

          I studied Technology in Veterinary Nursing- it takes alot of heart, time, dedication and unreturned gratification in this line of study and work. We have to have a VERY good knowledge & understanding of biology, physiology, chemistry, physics, nutrition, dental, vaccinations, clinical drugs and calculations, have a sound knowlege of all NZ farm animals and what to do, certain procedures, and be the Veterinarians maid, cleaner, assistant, do all the dirty jobs or try to restrain the viscious or scared-viscious animals so the vet doesnt get scratched/bitten.

          So I’m trying to say I am an intelligent and educated woman yet I cannot for the life of me get a job in a Vet Clinic and even if I did they only pay peanuts to Vet nurses as were seen as the lowly helper (trust me its some Veterinarians mentality).
          So I’m stuck with kitchen/restaurant/cafe work earning nothing more than minimum because I cant use my Degreee or get a job in an office because all an employer sees is where i have worked not what i am capable of! We have to do business studies as part of VN and I have ran an office reception by myself for 3months on temp contract, I want to change my life and get ahead but it’s very tough and restricted in NZ!

          • That us a good question. A lot depends on where you choose to live and most important is the income you have to live on. Kiwi saver now helps people buy their own home but you generally have to have 20% of the down payment. Mortgage rates are low and this am I saw one bank offering under 5%. A median property price is high in Auckland and Christchurch but you need to Google this to get accurate details.

            Sent from my iPhone

            >

          • Did you see the post from the man in Queensland, AU who has a wildlife refuge to give away to the right person? Might be a good ft for someone with your qualifications! 🙂

  3. nanny state in nz and auz too sorry, just a more expensive version. I think you should stay in uk where at least you can keep your 800k. Maybe move to somewhere prettier in the uk.

  4. Bongo…

    “If we relocated, we’d bring around £800k to build a new house and set up a business to employ locals. Mainly in home and house insulation and economical heating solutions.”

    I’m actually planning to do just that. I won’t miss the competition if you don’t go. It’s a golden opportunity!

  5. I will be relocating from Hawaii to NZ this year. I’ve been there and I didn’t get all the bad vibes, but I’m white so perhaps that explains it. I have to agree w/ JA…” I don’t like the US anymore, mainly because of all the fascist craziness going on here now.” I have no utopian illusions of NZ, just looking for something different, exciting, clean, low-key. It’s not more expensive than Hawaii. The US has more rednecks in one or two states than NZ has sheep…give me a break. Christ, the US probably has more red necks starring in their own reality TV shows than in all of NZ. It’s not for everybody, but what is? I hear Cleveland is nice this time of year.

    • You won’t win any real friends by bashing and bad-mouthing different social or political groups (rednecks, tories, conservatives, liberals, etc.), and you only make yourself look bad. Kiwis will see through that in a minute, as an effort to endear yourself, when they won’t like you anyway, whether you are right-wing, left-wing or moderate. One line you will probably hear is: “oh, you’re not one of those people who came here to get away from George Bush are you?”

      New Zealand has it’s own flavour of rednecks, the kind that look for immigrants with funny accents. If you think your white skin will save you, think again – unless you never open your mouth to say a word. Stay out of the pubs, off the streets at night, and watch your back.

      As for “fascism” in the US, you have blinders on. There is a worldwide trend toward increasing surveillance, government intrusion and taxation in the west, Russia and China. New Zealand is moving in the same direction, they are just a tad slower due to a lack of money and technology. But your Internet logs are kept for at least a year, and phone calls are, it’s been reported, all recorded – really no different than anywhere else.

      This week the big buzz in NZ news is that the government’s electronic spy agency, the GCSB, NZ’s equivalent of the GCHQ (UK) or NSA (US), has been spying on NZ citizens. In the US, UK, Canada and major nations in Europe, there are multiple levels of oversight, and a judicial system that works most of the time (if you have money), and non-profit special interests groups that are well-funded and fight for your rights. None of that exists here. There is no EFF to turn to, no ACLU to take your case, no Guardian UK to run an expose. If your name is Kim Dotcom and you have, potentially, millions you can recover, you may be able to find someone to be your friend.

      • To put things in even sharper perspective,
        Every university in NZ has an assigned Security Intelligence Service officer …

    • fletch :
      re now.” I have no utopian illusions of NZ, just looking for something different, exciting, clean, low-key.

      Different? No, it’s a bland, hateful monoculture. Like Zion-ism without the Zion: it’s Kiwi-ism!

      Exciting? The only excitement in New Zealand, outside the expensive tourist parks, is street/boy-racing, alcohol, drugs, and tourist bashing. You may not be ready to enjoy these activities, at first, as a spectator or participant, so there is obsessive home-improvement (really, Kiwis worship their little ‘houses’), alcohol (wait, I said that already), DVD rentals of last year’s B movies (the latest releases), and, drum roll please, rugby and cricket.

      Clean? That is a directly tied to scale and population density. Go for a jog or a dog-walk in most any suburban area and you’ll see lots of tagging, broken glass, used condoms, and the occasional 10-14 year old threatening/intimidating you for money. The lack or air pollution, etc. is directly proportional to the lack of any appreciable economic activity aside from low-density retail, and the national obsession – house and rental flipping.

      Low-key. No, low-life, in the sense there isn’t really much life here. The earthquakes keep it interesting though. And Paula Bennett.

  6. My wife and I drove 10,000 km around NZ and 16,000 km around aus in 2006-2007 and being a professional, born in Wales, living near London with 3 kids under 4, NZ sounded and looked perfect. If we relocated, we’d bring around £800k to build a new house and set up a business to employ locals. Mainly in home and house insulation and economical heating solutions. However, since reading this (and a few other) forums, the desire has hugely ebbed. Someone please tell me why NZ is any better than Perth / Ottowa / NY? As these are the other candidates. We are 30+ caucasian, used to working 90+ hour weeks… Tired of nanny state, crap weather, £800,000 for 120m2 houses…. Want the best place for 3 v. Young boys to grow up….

    • That better place could be closer than you think. Have you thought about looking somewhere else in your own country? New Zealand has all of the same problems you have at home plus isolation, a poorer economy and the xenophobia you and your family will experience as immigrants. Be aware this could impact on your business too as local operators close ranks to keep you from trading, undercut you on prices and use the network (a strong aspect of social and business life in NZ) to freeze you out. It is not a level playing field for migrants in NZ.

      Take some time to read our Migrants Tales.

    • Have you looked at Gibraltar or Malta? They are in the EU, English-speaking, have excellent Mediterranean weather, and nice lifestyles. We also have a young child (7 years old) and education is important to us. Both Gibraltar and Malta offer a quality education in English. Being in the EU also simplifies all the immigration procedures.
      As far as NY is concerned, your 800k pounds can’t even get you a shack there, and you would live surrounded by the most venal and materialistic a-holes on the planet, in a dangerous and nasty town. In fact, much of the US is that way, so I would not bother considering America at all. I have lived in the US most of my life, across several different states, but in the past 12 years the place has gone to hell, and in another 5 years it will be indistinguishable from Nazi Germany. Avoid it at all costs. I think Europe is still much better.

      • Are you sure you want to go to Malta? I’m in Malta and I have been thinking of moving to New Zealand LOL.

        Malta is a very tiny island, a few weeks here and you are bored of it entirely so much that you are desperate to go on vacation elsewhere. Most of it is the same, you see one old church you’ve seen them all, it’s a great attraction for the first time but you quickly get over it and long for something different. The whether is not so great, in winter it is cold & rainy (probably slightly warmer than Britain), whereas summer it is very dry and very hot. The best season is Spring and Autumn but unfortunately they are only a few weeks short and volatile (i.e. with cold spells). The beaches here are small and crowded during summer. Some are nice with the nice sea but after your first jellyfish sting you will never go back to them. I hear jellyfish is a problem in OZ as well, so no thanks to beaches for me.

        It has a very different culture, even though they may speak English as a second language, their culture is closer to their first language which is Arabic. Maltese villages look towns from Lebanon or Libya, i.e. they are very built up literally on top of each other and with very little greenery (a plot pant here and there) completely opposite to that of the UK, NZ, OZ, CA or USA. Environmental values are almost null here, people just aren’t brought to value and if you try to instill some environmental morals (such plant trees don’t cut them down, or stop pointless bird-hunting) they will reply with “we don’t need no British telling us what to do, we are no longer your colony go back to your sh*thole Britain”. Not to say they are racist, they aren’t too bad as people, but they aren’t particularly welcoming to foreigners either and they will use you as a scapegoat for all there problems including their own mistakes with over construction, so be prepared to be marginalized, it will be a problem everywhere you migrate but at least in OZ/NZ it is not noticeable at first sight that you are foreign and those countries speak English whereas here they speak Maltese, a semitic language closest to Arabic so good-luck learning it.

        Houses here are absolute sh*t even compared to Britain, most are in bad condition and having a bedroom window is considered a luxury only for the rich, P.S. you can kiss any yard or garden goodbye.

        Seriously I don’t recommend Malta, if anything I recommend OZ or even Burmuda, or even New Zealand, although I’m put off by these comments I can never know how it truly is without seeing for myself I just know never to have high expectations as you will always be disappointed, expect the worst and you will see its not too bad.

    • Come to Saskatchewan Canada. Its fairly flat lol but the people are excellent and if you have that much to put on a house for your family, it would go a VERY long way here. We bought our 2 bedroom, on a huge lot
      (179x 195 feet) for $45,000 Cd Also the province is fairly spread out, but if you don’t mind a little driving, there are plenty of family friendly activities , like the lakes for fishing and boating, ski hills, paintballing, as well as all the festivals throughout the year. Yes winters are cold, buy good coats, they’re affordable. Summers are hot, buy sunscreen, also affordable. Cheers from Canada and good luck in your search!

    • Canada will give you freedom and opportunity if you don’t mind the intense cold during winter and the very hot humid summers (if you’re going to Ottawa). We love Canada but my husband has a genuinely good fixed term work contract to go to in NZ. He is a highly trained professional but can only get casual employment here and his CV is weakening each year we stay. We are open-minded outdoorsy people who want to go with our eyes wide open. We are planning to keep our exit options and not move all our belongings unless we decide after the 3 year term that we want to stay on permanently.

  7. Having read all the above comments,I must say the mirage I was living stands broken. I have a family and I have been contemplating shifting to NZ for a while. I thought my kids would get world class education and great lifestyle. I am paid quite a bit inIndia for my job and I even thought I can live on half the salary if I get to move to NZ. However, after reading such horrid stories about NZ my faith is shaken. We can live with some anomaly in every society but not with rotten human beings. India has huge problems but people here are nice and warm. A person who makes USD 40000/= can have a great life comparable to any place. Of course every nation has it’s share of problems and indias problem is the population. Nevertheless, I invite you to try India at least once and see for yourself the opportunities and life here.

  8. Wow! These comments are pretty scary. But I am grateful to all who posted their NZ experiences here. Reading through these comments has been quite an eye opener, to say the least.
    My wife and I were thinking of ditching the US for NZ. But now we better think again. Another thing that sounds scary about NZ is the reported high level of ignorance displayed by its inhabitants (I hear they call themselves “Kiwis”…LOL). I am a psychologist and my wife is a dentist, and we don’t mind having moderately intelligent conversations with people, even if only occasionally. Should we forget that if we end up in NZ? And what do these “kiwis” like talk about, anyway? Crocodile Dundee kind of stuff? Because is so, I can see how that would get boring fast.
    So, what do you think? Is the US, with all its issues and evils still more desirable than NZ?
    By the way, we also have EU passports, so Europe is also another option for us. Do you think these “kiwis” are even more nationalist and redneck than say, the Spanish, the French, or the Italians? I did not think that was possible, but after reading through this page, I am beginning to wonder.
    Thanks for any feedback.

    • i cannot say without huge amounts of personal experience. but i’d say if you stay in us you will be better off. and I think the dutch, Scottish, irish people are great folks. local kiwis tend to be more like hooligans for the younger generation, although I think I have grown more positive views of the rugby sport after being engaged with it via locals. I only heard French economy is not in good shape. again cant say for sure. I must say I was quite tired of all the aired infomercials and content on tv in nz that was mostly pushy American style things. as their all said the same – nz is ok only if you have a ton of cash to burn leaving you wandering around in a quiet place. I have attended local counseling and dental services, so these 2 specialties are a necessity from ordinary folks, but don’t expect to charge clients a fortune for it.

      • PT,

        Thanks for sharing your impressions of NZ. The place does sound like a total hell hole. I am not even going to bother visiting it, leave alone try to move there.

        Personally, I don’t like the US anymore, mainly because of all the fascist craziness going on here now. So I will probably move to Europe, where we have a second residence already.
        By the way, why don’t you get out of NZ? What keeps you in that hell hole?

        BTW, most Anglo-Saxon countries seem to have gone to hell in recent years. One can be much happier in Latin America or Asia these days it seems.

        • i believe I had loyalty for nz, that’s why I didn’t leave at the first chance of finishing a course like what others did. however, I finally had enough abuse after being setup by coworkers with poisonous heart. you do 1.5 year of non stop stressful work under crazy mismanaged chaotic atmosphere to overcome all the lies, obstacles to manufacture billions of dollars for someone else? and then get defamed and smeared! thank you very much, im done with this unnecessary Hollywood style drama with all the media, lawyers, consellors etc all preying on your bank balance under various excuses of service, in the end nobody is interested to let you rest in peace or grow in life happily. the big brother is watching and have all the money and political power, so as long as you’re being targeted, no legitimate reasoning matters and thank god they finally made me sold out everything and leave. perhaps that’s what they want, if not, why after a decade has past you still see those tv debate about the hate mail some white folks are circulating. who wants to please the unpleasable bullies at your cost of life savings and well being? it is like a never ending loan shark. of course, totally out of there, and rediscovered that where im at we still have lovely clean beaches and outdoors. its easy to find easy going folks to befriend and trust. people NOT TIED with foreign enterprises have common decency and trustworthy behavior. At least on the street I never get bumped away by some big stranger, neither do I hear of any cases of cars broken into. Anybody that has the slightest inclination of bullying me again I will throw the job or them away, that includes big buff muscle fitness staff at pricey foreign style commercial gyms that yell at me to generate trouble. I just knee into their shitty groin and throw the jerks away. cant be bothered to waste my short limited life with liars and time wasters. of course where im at, the kiwis come and always try to seek out events where they can milk money holding a blood sucking mindset. if I do make contact with some to seek out a little help such as borrowing a rugby ball, they refuse. logically the last thing on their mind would be to help out natural disasters like earthquake. afterall, they may only want to be positioning themselves as expensive sport junkies where fitness and health is to be ‘bought’ by us at a steep price… if that’s their view of the world how we should be enslaved this way. as I still think love cannot be bought, I cant be bothered to keep trading with these folks under a negative relationship.

        • Denmark seems to be number one on every list I’ve seen for every important category. Finland, Sweden, basically the Netherlands. Opposite of my kind of weather, but if that’s what I have to pay for the rest of everything else falling into place, I’ll take it.

    • Have spent large amounts of time in both U.S. and NZ, I would advise you to stay in the States if you think the Kiwis are like Crocodile Dundee. Read Zegelaar’s New Zealand immigration book on how the locals welcome professionals moving in and trying to set businesses of their own up (welcome isn’t the word). I witnessed this type of protectionism happen many times. Anything non-NZ is distrusted, discouraged. They bash the U.S. something insane – prepare to be unreasonably disliked by people you don’t even know. The poster above stating that you “move for the lifestyle” is making a comment typical of many Kiwis, who prefer to frame the preference as “money person” / “non-money person” or “naturally happy person” / “whinger who’d hate it anywhere”. This is like saying you have “money values” if you don’t wish to live in a shack in Belize on a shoestring and eat sunsets for dinner. Resist permitting morons with an agenda from defining the terms of the debate. Having a family, and not having endless resources, these things are important to my quality of life: general affordability of normal life, the temperature and level of humidity inside my home, the availability of comfortable but not luxurious housing on my budget, staying out of debt, the availability of good affordable fresh food in some reasonable variety, quality of schooling, museums and other opportunities, classifieds showing a decent number of jobs available, the general level of discourse around me, price of books, good infrastructure, basic utilities affordable, and many other more intangible things. If you expect a “normal” comfortable life such as what you would get in America, then New Zealand probably is not a good place for you. New Zealand will disappoint the reasonable expectations of a citizen of a first world nation. If you go with a willingness to be set back in life for (whatever you would gain by moving there – we gained f***-all and in fact lost a great deal, and we can’t get it back), then give it a try. These sites exist to warn people that New Zealand is not what it is advertised to be. It has a certain “flavour” ,and it might not be YOUR favourite one: http://www.expatexposed.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=926

      Caveat emptor. That’s all we’re saying.

    • I wish I could live in the US and yes, if you have a EU passport do not bother to come down here to zero economy. I Am a dentist too and believe me , there is not enough people , and they are extremely different to USA , South Africa Uk Canada etc. People do not care about their Oral health or sick state of their teeth. Think twice please, first come for a visit, but I think , NO . take the lakes of Canada and probably a few picturesque places , put it in a matchbox and you have New Zealand, Canada is extremely beautiful NZ has boring Nature in the North Island , a bit better South, Ugly black sand beaches.We feel tricked, and cheated by Immigration agents and fell for the lies they told us. it cost us ALL our savings money to get here, we lost everything financially, and now have nothing. this place is full of pathetic rules and regulations , we family of four is just surviving. My children are leaving for America or Australia once they finished their studies. This place can not pay expertise and professionals, they are bottom dwellers .

  9. New Zealanders claim they are not racist, but I’m afraid many of them are. A lovely Cambodian girl I worked with was waiting to cross the road and a car pulled up and the idiot inside spat in her face. I know many others who have been verbally abused and lots of reports in the newspaper archives if you go to the NZ Herald newspaper online and search the words Asian & Racism. There is a real underlying aggressiveness in the Kiwi culture, maybe due to insecurity. The nicest and most genuine race of people in NZ are the Pacific Islanders. No pretences. Especially the Samoan people, and Cook Islanders. However, if you are determined to study in the Antipodies, I’m not sure Australia would be much better. It will also depend on what area of NZ or Australia you study in. Wellington is much nicer than Auckland. Avoid Christchurch at all costs, it has an infamous history of racism.

  11. Having travelled quite extensively I would have to say that New Zealanders take the prize for being the biggest bunch of idiots in the world. A race of brainless, insecure, passive aggressive, humourless, bell-ends. Yeah tourists love the place, if they are lucky enough not to raped or murdered that is, but you can’t really gain a true appreciation for how backward, and god awful a place is until you’ve lived there. And I’ve lived there so I’m better placed than most to accurately judge the inane stupidity of the Kiwi race.

    • At least in NZ they don’t let anybody own a gun, you don’t have to worry about your children getting gunned down by a fellow student. I have know idea who thought it was a good idea to let and emotional teenager have access to a gun.

  13. Annie Marie and MissPH – go anywhere but NZ! It is indeed very racist – especially to Asians (by which they mean anyone who isn’t white) and it is not a healthy society. There are many good people here, but the country itself is at the top of many lists (youth suicide, child abuse, mass migration of their educated population) that should ring many alarm bells to anyone wanting to upset their own lives and try to live here. I am from Canada – which has many problems of its own – but NZ is a very different society with different values and I would say it’s not a safe or sensible option for anyone from Scotland or… Asia.

  14. Hi! I’m from Philippines and will move to NZ in to study. I’m afraid of experiencing racism. Are tertiary students racist too?

  15. There is no paradise place on earth; we make our own paradise place through being happy with ourselves first. I lived in NZ, OZ, US and Canada and I enjoyed all places, as all places have their own goods and bads….I know I enjoyed safe and peaceful walks in the NZ forests

    • to be fair i agree and that’s why i feel the bashing of some Asian countries in the media was very unfounded and ill intended. if i had such peace of mind and fun in nz, why would i have moved away? where im now the main concern of people is sky high housing costs that render it unaffordable by many. but i’d rather to live in a place with tiny rooms where i feel safe walking down the street, people willing to offer you paid work opportunities without intentionally subjecting you to damaging abuse, and having reliable bank staff who just executive normal transactions instead of prying into your privacy, gaming you and bad mouthing you. i can easily approach people on the street expecting most are willing to talk with me and understand me, and give direction where to take buses etc. when i was in akl, i was quite shocked some dude on the street would refuse give directions but instead made the allegation that ‘you Asian are rich you should be taking taxi’. if any foreign people where i live ask me for simple transportation advice, i wouldn’t tell them that they are aliens shouldn’t they ride their own private jets, would i?

    • I am sure that you are posting from Sierra Leone and happy with yourself. Enjoy!

    • Hey, i’m very interested to find out which of the four places (NZ, OZ, USA, & Canada) you prefer and why. By the way I totally agree you have to be at peace with yourself first.

  16. I have a friend who stayed here for a few years and then went back to her homeland, New Zealand, I also have close family friends there, I’ve always had this romantic idea to move from scotland to nz, but is it really soooo bad as everyone is saying?we are just an average family with no real savings, would my young children have a better life in nz than here in bonnie scotland?help!

    • A bit of perspective…we have friends that immigrated to NZ from the UK, lived there long enough to get citizenship, and then fled….to Scotland!

      • I think your home country with the support of life-long friends and relatives probably makes a good contribution to quality of life.

        As a Kiwi it’s interesting reading the comments. I notice in the building I work in, the people I’m closest to and have the best conversations with are pretty much Asians and other foreigners. They are friendlier, more open to friendship i.e. less cliquey and more worldly than the home-grown version. My partner’s favourite person to chat with at his work is from ROC.

        I suspect some people don’t find other people who are a ‘bit different’ appealing. This also works if you’re a Kiwi and a bit different i.e. your preferred topic of conversation isn’t about shopping and what was on TV last night.

  17. I have lived 19 years in NZ,I would say its HELL none the less,bullied at school during primary days and when I apply for a job,it ends up rejected,I have since decided I am focusing on moving to the US so my advice for newcomers to NZ don’t believe what the media says about New Zealand

    • I don’t suggest the U.S. either. I live here and I’m trying to get the fuck out. Democracy my ass. The corporations here buy the politicians, and the politicians build everything to give these huge businesses huge tax cuts (they pay such a low amount and complain and bitch they want to pay less and hide money in other country banks- so many loopholes!) Americans are terrified of immigrants (see our “border crisis” with Mexico and other Central/South American countries, and how our republicans here want to handle that!), we have a war on everything- war on drugs, immigrants, education, Christmas (yes that war actually exists). Our police are heavily militarized (don’t look at an officer wrong, chances are you’ll get shot, see right now our Ferguson, Missouri cases- yes, now there are three lethal shootings that happened there this past month, two of them this past week)- The U.S. is as scary as China, Russia, North Korea…….. it sucks here. The approval rating of our congressmen is at 4%. I’m not joking. That’s the latest poll. Yet no one wants to vote for new people because too many are lazy, or believe the lying propaganda spoonfed to them on their TV’s. I find the U.S. to be fear-mongering, war-mongering, and if you’re not rich, you will be shit on. Our minimum wage is a joke, half our government says hell no to raising it. I’ve become very afraid of this country. Turns out maybe NZ isn’t as great as I thought it was. Stupid propaganda. Plus the rest of the world hates us. I wonder why. (Sarcasm). I don’t want to be put in the same stereotypical group and judged for being American. I’ll take other stereotypes of many other countries. I just want my government, and the people I live around, to treat everyone fairly. To be fair, the U.S. is HUGE and you can probably find a niche here. I found mine- I love Portland, OR. But I do not want to stay in this country.

      • @boileddowntruth
        Well, would you like to stay in this country? Beware of “making a bad situation, WORSE” (things, can get a LOT worse …)
        “Skilling says the most recent Statistics New Zealand data indicated the richest 20 per cent of us owned 70 per cent of the wealth, with 18 per cent in the hands of the second richest quintile, and 10 per cent in the hands of the middle quintile. Just 2 per cent was owned by people in the fourth quintile, while the bottom owned nothing.”
        – http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/10416461/Wealth-split-worse-than-most-realise
        “Wealth split worse than most realise
        ROB STOCK Last updated 05:00 24/08/2014”

        • I’m still looking. -_- I’m getting more and more desperate to leave here, the more things unfold yet again. I don’t know where to go though. Lots of options. Want to choose the right one. I hear a lot of good things about OZ- curious to know what you guys think of Australia?????

  18. Thank you so much. You are speaking the truth, and that is priceless. Your purposed have been accomplished. Thank u for sharing your life, and keeping others away from this New Zeland trap. Let me tell you a little about us., My husband is a disabled veteran, and I have 3 children between ages of 13-6. We were looking for a new beginning, sometimes life gets a little hard, difficult to save, more difficult to travel, and almost impossible to enjoy nature… We have considered to move aboard – Chile. We are waiting to solve some financial and legal issues to take acction. I came acrossed with this wonderful propaganda about New Zeland and it was really appealing. The cost to travel to New Zeland is very, very low. It sounded perfect to raise my children, until a came across with your page. Thank u for been so open, and helping us to stay away from this lie.

  19. I stumbled on this webpage by accident and I have found it illuminating in that it presents a point of view that is not often published or articulated. While some of the comments and opinions articulated are well made many are just people having a whinge,….. NZ has not got a big economic footprint and making a living here can be bloody tough, I have watched more than a few episodes of place in the sun (UK TV programme about relocating downunder) where this week contestant expects to sell their 1 bed flat in Slough and get a 7 bedroom mansion (with a pool) in central Auckland and then is put out when they cant afford it. they also expect to make the same money that they have been making in England in NZ….. Newsflash you move to NZ for the lifestyle not to get rich, the money may be less and the property is probably not that much cheaper. The place also only has population of 4m so don’t expect it to be like London… Maybe the problem is not what NZ is, but that the expectations of many would be immigrants are set sky high!

    • You can do it tough in NZ for sure. Thats why after 40 years in NZ I now live in Perth. And you think NZ has bogans, man this is bogan central!
      I was born in UK and lived/worked there and in Europe also. If you are not into the outdoors then much of NZ’s attraction is not relevant for you. One person commented that NZ sems to be the same wherever you go, yet there is a huge mountain range with glaciers at one end, and volcanoes and beaches at the other!

      I remeber living in England just longing to get back to NZ. So, the question to ask yourself is, is it really that the place you are in is so bad or just the longing to get back to where you were, in the hope of a better life…even though you probably left that place in search of a better life anyway.

      • the outdoor scene were attractive for the raw and crude original state, but that is only if you have the over ordinary ability to have the freedom and financial spares to spend it there. im not greedy, so having once or twice in many years to have the opportunity to ski or go to the beach, i feel flattered and spoiled (do i sound like a naïve kid?). but to be fair, even if the financial side was not overburdening for these once in a while events to take place, the facilities were very primitive and basic, the cars that people go to these places are also ordinary so they pollute the air as much with filthy smelling gasoline. the people who go places are the very people around you – they are casually dirty and where i followed a tramping club to the forests, they stomp the hut and break things, litter places with rubbish, having a loud noisy party like behavior. well, that goes along my impression of many of their young and adult people – rude, cliques and socially irresponsible regarding being tidiness. i felt even more scared when someone was trying to prey on my interest to get along with locals and selling the chance to learn surfing when i felt to enjoy the ocean and sport i was treated like a goldmine…. ummm well you may spend and burn your savings to get a taste of the so called pure new Zealand experience, only to goto coffin and die one way or another either being in a car accident due to some drunk cutting across on a narrow road, or die in a fatal accident of bungy jumping, or shot dead by some Nazi minded redneck because they hated Asians. your sweat money is so easily pocketed by the locals with nobody remembering you, while your ill fate would be swept under the carpet as some unaccounted or hidden statistics. And, of course if someone dare to take your issues to the authorities, the media and the authorities probably see you as troublemaker and want you to disappear to avoid other idiots flocking to their traps!

    • However, due to the fact that inflation has spiked and the wages for professionals have not, and are a fraction of what you would earn elsewhere, the ‘fantastic NZ lifestyle’ that everyone bangs on about is no longer affordable. It’s just another New Zealand myth. Just like the ‘clean green’ rubbish you hear. This place is no utopia despite the sales pitch.

        • Thanks Han, Clearly for some lifestyle is about money and the things it can buy…….. But as I said above NZ is not a place you move to grow rich (or go shopping). However if you like doing things and being outdoors then NZ does offer a great lifestyle in that you have ready access to the bush and the beach and their are loads of activity’s from sailing swimming, surfing, kayaking, camping, tramping which are relatively cheap or in some cases free. Also Kiwis generally have what I would call a more positive attitude to life. When I was growing up it was very much have a go, maybe it will work out, maybe it wont, but if you don’t try you wont know. But since I have been abroad I have been amazed (in many cultures) by the strong emphasis on face (i.e. don’t try things because if you are not successful then people will be cuing up to criticize and rip the piss out of you). NZers tend to just get on with it and do it. I would say this, NZ is not for everyone, but do your research and know what you are getting into and be sure about what you want. For all the tales here of discontent there are many people who make it here and love it. Either way, at least you can say you tried it and if it doesn’t work out then you can live forward knowing you had a go, as opposed to spend your life wondering what if.

          • Having known people who have taken their own life all I can say is that it is devastatingly sad and that the reasons why can often be hard to find. I don’t think that this is really the appropriate forum to discuss this…….

          • This is the perfect forum, many of our regular contributors also know people who have have suicided, including children. But if you’d rather not talk about it that’s your prerogative. Perhaps you could answer the rest of the question, and the one about families and mortgages instead?

          • That person’s a typical kiwi. Mention anything resembling truth about New Zealand and it’s like, “moving right along now, nothing to see here”. Right. Being able to afford basic underwear,,t-shirts, shoes, food, heat and the occasional movie is not “shopping”. It’s called “normal Western life”. You can go outdoors anywhere and enjoy activities outdoors. Why limit yourself to having “only that to do and nothing else”? Why move far away from anyone you know and pay twice the cost of living? There is no good reason unless the scenery is twice as good as any other country’s (not true) or you have family there. There are no benefits at all to moving to New Zealand unless you have relatives there.

          • I agree with you. This forum is beautiful- very raw, and even though people disagree, they are able to do it in a safe, productive, mature fashion. That being said, I do agree with you that the whole issue of suicide should be left to another forum. People get depressed and have chemical imbalances and experience and interpret things differently. It does not matter the nationality, culture, location… This problem exists internally with people, no matter who they are. Mental issues are separate from the issue of, “where do I want to live and why?”.

          • But since I have been abroad I have been amazed (in many cultures) by the strong emphasis on face (i.e. don’t try things because if you are not successful then people will be cuing up to criticize and rip the piss out of you).
            I have been amazed by the strong emphasis on face in NZ … people who have drinking problems, but you are not supposed to mention it; people who are racist, but you are not supposed to mention it; people who give their partners the bash but you are not supposed to mention it; people who misrepresent their qualifications, but you are not supposed to mention it (at least one of them that I know of is former Residential Assistant, another is an upcoming journalist at Whitireia Polytechnic with a money problem – i.e. he doesn’t like to pay it back).

    • i don’t think my expectation was sky high. my expectation was only to be living in peace, get access to a bit of training i paid for without getting unfairly excluded, do some legitimate work to earn a little money without being defamed, eat ordinary food, sleep well without getting cursed or being set up, let alone to live my life, cheer up with a few friendly neighbours or locals, walk on the street unharmed and not bullied.
      however, when i was standing in queen street, some dude would walk into me and push me away, my car broken into (and of course the state insurance cant reimburse it because the crime took place after 5pm), etc, etc, etc. Don’t kid me… certain famous Asian stars (i dont want to name them yet) who died in foreign places were not dead due to ‘mysterious causes’. their lives were actively being sabotaged in bad faith.
      Or, should a realistic non sky high expectation be getting marginalized and excluded, unemployed for a decade (eg 1/6 of your whole life), unable to own a profitable business because many people related to it were mostly dishonest or slackers, continuously running into officials and staff that abuse power, being a forgotten soul and cursed, continuously facing unpleasant treatment from callous people, suicidal and drowning into a cold scenic lake without a recoverable body or thereafter funeral, facing a barrage of bigotry and fake cold hearted smooth talking people that only want to take fast money?

  20. my family life in nz was hijacked…after returning from burying my wife i was met by cromwell police re kidnapping my daugter…family court papers followed, 8 years later im still fighting it…bodysnatchers of james takamore get awarded my girl every christmas and im told where to live…tim cadogan quits and gets promoted to disputes judge…applicants fc lawyer barbara collis is on treaty of waitangi board…asked the media and police for help but got nothing but abuse from them…nz is a scam https://www.facebook.com/groups/445912342098456/

  21. i migrated to nz a number of years and studied or worked there. since highschool the classmates were very hostile and rude, and proactively start fights with you without you doing anything to provoke them. they made me feel unsafe and hiding at home, when in reality i was very curious and interested to be the locals’ friends. however, mostly it was met with rejection and hostility. they bluntly claim that i approach them only because i want friends, and then shut the door. i must say that out of a class of say, 30 people, maybe you get along with 30%. i’d rather be ignored than being attacked or vilified. it was shocking i discovered some lecturers privately bad mouth you in references when you thought you got along with them, and they never raised issues with you while pretending to be nice all along. when you joined the workforce, after beating all the unemployment and unfair exclusions, and landing onto a dream company, some new colleagues would jump in without provoking to rob away your work credit and spread rumours or falsify documents to destroy you. you continue to play by the rules and work hard, manufacture billions of dollars for the company and help everyone succeed, and with the intense chaos and bullying people violate your privacy and intercept your communication or attempt to leave and work elsewhere to secretly badmouth you, saying opposite things and defaming you when you helped them succeed and get rich, inducing psychiatric injury and wrongful termination by abuse of positions or power. whether it is a show up of racial superiority or exclusion or whatever the real secret agenda is, you lost faith with the legal or justice system, you have doubts how an old biased slow judge make decisions upon huge controversies or conflict or interest/disputes, and even bank staff would knowingly play games and they all claim they made these so called ‘mistakes’ to setup obstacles to your normal work life function to sabotage any minute plans or expectations even if you give them benefits or have no intention to fight anyone. basically they want to uphold a public image that the asians are evil and undesired, call the shots to get you financially ruined or jailed, and politically undermine you. with the public network of phone etc, probably some silent secret place from a named giant telecon company has people holding all the power and big financial power to intrude into your private activities or communications, and act on them even if you were exercising your rightful rights, to interfere and destroy your plans silently. when you suspect your school teacher or the company management not being very honest or straight up, you bet they are doing dirty works behind the scene to apply their bias and sabotage. it is very sad that you speak good english with them and you feel that they are not that interested to bond or social with you. i dont like to hold a tone of negativity or allegations even if i suffered tremedous hurt and damage, but if you consider the culture of incivility and lack or cohesive coexistence, you wonder why you have to face abuse and survive without dignity, or if they cheated you out of pocket and you are broke, i suppose nobody would ever want you. so it is right to say toxic culture, ruthless cold people, nice countryside scenery, we gave you our support, and over 14 years past where i was left in shock and breakdown due to bullied out of work… from this board it seems little has changed. the smiles i put with living and working with fellow kiwis were from a very weak relationship that was filled with incompatibilities, infighting and hate. it was when i returned to this city in asia where i could experience trust, bonding and peaceful teamwork in activities like outward bound and some civil workplace, where even with different nationalities we work across borders well together happily. whereas, someone in nz always try to start fight, make trouble, induce hurt, act with full force bad faith, drive you nuts, deny all your value or contributions. the biased media would like to target us, and set you up for failure. i’d say the chinese in nz would either be targets of cheap slavery or ripped off sidelined immigrants, that nobody seems to offer love or care about you after you get abused and used, just like how a sheep is milked, stripped and killed for meat. Respect is a 2 way street, and I cannot understand why we in XX can admire, learn and appreciate foreign culture, when the other way round is filled with hatred, bias and hostility. so after witnessing how rude and incivil kiwis are, i must say that im not surprised to read about the news of some korean traveller murdered and the mother crying wondering how this can happen. as many asians including korean are well mannered well off people with no ill will, they cannot understand the potential of risk and a different skewed perspective. the tv ads or olympics are filled with multicultural multi race faces that seem so peaceful and happy together, when in reality i see so many rednecks and blonde hating asians or holding white supremacisit values. they may deny any wording of racism and conveniently label it as a ‘preference’, but in reality it is all rejection and exclusion. just like how the japanese label the killing of whales as a scientific research purposes. or that the kiwi coworker ‘accidentally’ made a mistake and robbed away your work credit, or the bank staff made a ‘mistake’ and accidentally convert money they owe you to money you owe them. so much ‘accidents’, or how they ‘accidentally’ forgot you and so enjoyed thoroughlly vilifying you and propagating records to destroy your good name like lauching a hate campaign against someone without any consequence or management intervention. its all a colluded concerted activity that they in reality condone the destruction of the academic or legal honest work living of targeted asian people. of course, with the censored media, corporate website etc, nobody is actively admitting it, foxhole guard the henhouse, they of course want the unenlighted people to still fancy the painted beautiful countryside scenery and taking all the student and tourist money until people witness the evils of the kiwis. people launch criticism about xx and chixx, but as i see it fairly its all just a ploy to make unreasonable on a targeted asian country. the kiwis i met also disrespected intellectual property rights, also acted lawlessly, also polluted everything. i supported nz to the point i collapsed, damaged and financially ruined. what made us deserve more criticisms and hostilities when our voice were silenced? abusive neighbourhood and authorities do not deserve your support and loyalty. if you have tried so hard, and you feel in the rut/gut the kiwis actually still treat you like a non person/non citizen, then you should not bother making contributions. why keep on feeding the beast that are ingrained with never changing ill will and non appreciation? when the kiwi ex classmate who i thought was a friend come to xx for a short stay, i can only feel the relationship being so superficial without deep trust, they would not listen to your purchase advice and run into bad dealings then complain our whole asian xx being some cheat, or when i treat them to some expensive places they would assume my ticket is free. or that we are thieves. or that we are untrustworthy. blah blah blah. if they have no intention to befriend you, so be it! why waste your investment dollar or effort etc. just cut trade and ties and leave that shitty little country behind! afterall, it just a white club, they would never feel guilty of any damage or ill will towards asians, it is just a use and throw away relationship. whats the point to care about it anyways? almost a decade of my life wasted there, the only good memories they gave me there were:
    * a change of perspective and enjoyment of touch rugby game
    * seeing some seaside/countryside
    * rotorua tourist spots
    * hero gay parade/party
    * mission bay view and the hot muscles
    * les mills gym filled with sporty atmosphere and the fit personal trainers i hired there

    i must say, that having heard of some bad news about some so called fired corrupt asian staff/banker/official etc, i personally conclude these were just setup or highlights to make asian people look bad in the eyes of the country. basically, they wont give you a fair go and work hard to destroy you until you sulk and disappear in shame. whats the joy if they just dont expect to coexist with you under a fair culture or system? in xx where i live now we have to speak 3 languages officially including english. i start to think there is nothing wrong to delete english and just return to a real chinese chinese country. afterall, we have to work so hard to make friends and accomodate others when they dont do the same level in return, why all these fuss to respect someone that wont respect you?

    • I am truly sorry that maybe some New Zealanders may have treated you in away that was less than respectful. New Zealand is not perfect but if what you outlined is half accurate then you deserved to be treated better and with more respect……

  22. I feel 100% better after reading all these comments, I thought I was the only one who feels NZ is a bit crap. I have lived half my life in NZ and half in UK, thankfully my formative (high school and beyond) years were spent in England. We just moved back to DUNEDIN after living in London for 3 years. We were there for work but that work came to an end, we were on another planet when we decided to give NZ another go. I am now planning our return to UK. I thought having a bigger house with less mortgage was the key to a better life, I was wrong you just exist in NZ and it’s a hard life. I know I’d be happier in a 2 up 2 down semi with central heating than my freezing cold beautiful looking wooden villa. I find NZ is the same no matter where you are, perhaps Auckland has more going for it but who can afford to live there on NZ wages? There is nothing to do and nowhere to go. I miss the diversity of UK, people are different and places are different from town to town. You drive from Dunedin to Queenstown and drive through ghost towns full of the odd bogan with beautiful scenery. Beautiful scenery is OK but it’s what comes with it.

    • Jo, Going from London to Dunedin, was always going to be a culture shock. London is 1000s of years old and has population of circa 10m. If that is what you want then Dunedin is not for you, but in London try and find a 3 bedroom swelling in an area with reasonable transport links / good schools and that isn’t crime ridden and backing onto an airport or railway and you are talking for less than £350-£400K. And if you are fortunate / fortunate enough to have kids trying to get a into “the right school” zone to get the kids into a decent school put another 100-150K on that plus the annual school fees (and that assumes your child is smart enough to pass the 11+,… lets just say that NZ and Dunedin may not be London but in some ways THANK GOODNESS, coz London aint all that (unless you have very deep pockets!)

    • Jo – I totally get where you are coming from. I am returning to the uk as the travel bug has come back again and it is impossible on the nz dollar. I felt “free” in the uk to do what I want. I loved the pub culture in the Uk and the shops – and the people watching. And there are actually MEN in the uk. Being single is such a depressing experience in Nz as the only thing available is a bogan or old guy. The worst thing I ever did was return to Nz – went through all those earthquakes in chch – and moved to akl – where I will never be able to afford a house – all these total dumps selling for over 2 million dollars to cash laden foreigners. God I even listed pros and cons of staying in Nz and could only think of one pro.

      • And there are actually MEN in the uk. Being single is such a depressing experience in Nz as the only thing available is a bogan or old guy.
        Few things in the world rustle my jimmies like someone claiming there is a “man drought” in NZ.
        As I said earlier there were scores of Asian guys going dateless (even me), so presumably they were not bogan or old guy, the ones you actively noticed and possibly interacted with, that ended negatively.
        Maybe you thought the Asian guys didn’t speak English?
        I’m really keen to hear why the non-bogans and non-old didn’t get a look in. Care to share?

      • Christchurch is crawling with single guys from all over the world right now, here for the rebuild. A high percentage of them are English or Irish, with further large numbers from Samoa, Spain, the Philipines, etc etc. I’m loving it!!
        I too went through the earth quakes, and my attitude now is that you make a place. If you are determined to be miserable, you will be, and if you grasp every opportunity, stuff will happen. Good luck!

  23. Wow, I’m a born and bred New Zealander, and I have read alot of the comments on here, it’s pretty unbelievable that some people make such strong and sweeping statements about my home land, the people here and our culture, or the lack of it. I Guess we hang in different circles! I’ve seen and heard about some really negative sides to New Zealand, but I’ve seen and heard the same about alot of your own countries. It’s not something new or something that I want to defend, but it’s everywhere. I love this place because I’m from here, some of my ancestors are from this land, so I am tied into the history, good and bad. It’s home. I don’t feel I am deprived because of the size of the country, or the so called poor economy, There are places and people that you can choose to associate with and those you leave well enough alone. Just like in other countries. Sometimes we choose to close our eyes and our hearts before we even give things a chance. Your welcome to hang in my circle, you can even borrow my shoes!

    • Too bad they aren’t all like you, Roha, but if a surprisingly large number of people have not had good migration experiences, it’s important to share these somewhere so that your immigration and tourism propaganda (and read around a bit – it is very rosy) doesn’t lead more people to move to NZ. People have to read some negative things in order to migrate successfully with enough information to know that they can make it in New Zealand. Or even like it in the first place. Visiting New Zealand and living there are very different experiences.

    • I have but the best and fondest memories of NZ, living there just for a year in 1990. I was young, and maybe didn’t have the pressures of providing for a family, but I did have a sales job, and started a small business through the help of a great friend of Albanian descent, who like his children, born in NZ, had awesome KIWI hospitality! I am saddened by the negative reports, currently live in Sonoma County, California, (wine and food mecca) of the United States of America! And I wish to return, I would rather suffer in NZ, then the hopeless state we are in the US. Please respond to me if you agree, if you disagree, you could respond but I have heard enough of the nay-slayers about NZ. “Don’t ask what your country can do for you, rather ask what you can do for your country.” Always have and always will love New Zealand.

      • And I wish to return, I would rather suffer in NZ, then the hopeless state we are in the US.
        No problem, just find someone to hire you. Easy-peasy, amirite? Especially since you have overseas experience?
        Remember the youth wage just kicked in too.

    • Well said Roha!
      Personally I find life is all about attitude, and I would say most (all) people commenting on here have very poor attitudes. I am a Kiwi, born and bred, one of 16 children from the same parents. Dad was a plumber, back in those days he wasn’t paid anywhere near what they are now. Every one of my siblings was either a trades person or a professional. We have mostly raised families ourselves, never been in trouble with the law,own our own homes, businesses etc.We grew up making our own fun, doing chores, growing our own veges, learning how to get on in life and be community minded citizens.
      I was always taught to face your problems, not run away from them, they will always follow you. Is that why most people on here post what they do, because they have brought their problems with them?
      You have brought your attitude with you.
      This country is not perfect, but nor are all immigrants. Relax, breath and get out of the rat race, your choice!

  24. I was born in NZ and left the country at age 20 (1967), I never really liked the country even as a kid, I just remember the people as being real nasty and thinking it was funny to be that way.
    I’ve been back for visits to spend time with my old buddies I grew up with and find them racist, homaphobic, outspoken, cheap, rude, crude and ignorant. Its pervasive throughout the country. I’ve never wanted to live there since leaving, it’s just not the place to live in comfort and be at peace with yourself, I still have family that live there and I’m happy for them but anyone moving there should give that decision some serious consideration as foreigners are treated badly. life is short, if you live in Canada you wont find what we have here by moving to NZ, a visit by all means but separate the vacation from the reality of actually living there.

  25. Kia ora haere mai Mr Scott I love the figures you have produced in numbers they are quite cool and salute you that you are welcoming migrants. I have lived in Aotearoa for some time and moved out for family reasons to my source. Now some basic questions why do people immigrate? Why do people select New Zealand? I can only relate to my case I immigrated for a better life. What is better life? Easy living, more money, more opportunities (in everything say hobbies, studies, aspirations etc etc). Now comes the next question why NZ? Well none of the other countries let me in for various reasons (Immigration not work visa). Why did NZ let me in? I don’t know may be they are desperate but I don’t know. When you come through proper immigration like me then they have set standards (Please refer Immigration site) basically what it means is they want the cream(highly qualified(Academics & work experience), good health, good character and improve NZ economy) of people.

    I cleared all that and immigrated to NZ unfortunately most of the kiwis were just like you “Can’t handle the heat get out of the kitchen” “Harden up bro” lot of sayings which I can go on. People yelling at you on the street go back to your country!!! and what not. Please refer my above points on why I immigrated and kindly understand if i come through immigration with all the standards then I am not a bum. It’s very easy for a kiwi to say to immigrants to go back!! but for the immigrant it’s so painful that you have killed him/her already. All we want is local support and love and it’s not that we are not trying to adapt the new culture or not associating with kiwis but the kiwis should be more welcoming. Example you invited someone to your house means the onus will be on you to make the guest feel welcoming and not the other way around as it’s not possible for a guest to feel ok when he is not welcomed by the host.

    There are lot of bad things and good things in any country and so as in NZ. In NZ people are mesmerized to do things which are preprogrammed (Means no room for creativity). My best friends are from New Zealand and I am still in touch with them. There are so many bad things I can speak about and there are so many good things I speak about but I would assume everyone is grown up and knows exactly what I am talking about.

    Current trend in NZ if anyone wants to challenge me on this “Bring it on bro”.
    NZ dollar is overvalued so what? You may ask but look at the manufacturers they are killing themselves can’t compete in the global market with kiwi dollar breaching the 83 cents mark. It’s not good in local either because the international players are offering products at a lesser price than the local market because of the high priced NZ dollar.

    Why is NZ dollar high? Is the economy doing well? 80% of NZ revenue is from farming exports, if the exports are hit by high dollar then how come the economy is doing well?

    NZ generates money through foreign lenders by giving them a very high short term interest rate, yes even higher than the US. This creates a demand for the NZ dollar and the dollar goes high but hey we have to pay high interest rates to the foreign lender how do we do that “Borrow more”. Finally we end up with a high dollar and a very high debt.

    Can we bring this dollar down? Yes, but how?
    Bringing the interest rate down means the foreign lenders will lend no more because they are getting higher interest rate at some other country. Well, we decide let’s do that, and then comes the property inflation!! Because the interest rates are low there are more buyers than the supply (Houses) which creates a great demand and skyrockets inflation in property market. Now what will RBNZ do increase the interest rate to tame the inflation which directly means more debt as we have to pay more to for foreign lenders. NZ economy is pretty much ******** they don’t care about the local people but local people carry so much pride about their country.

    There are limited options like putting a bracket on how much the banks can lend for a property and then the quantitative easing. Let’s see what happens in the days to come (2015). NZ is a beautiful country and a spiritual place. If you want a Ferrari in the 1st year then NZ is not for you but if you want peace and lifestyle with nature then hey welcome!!

  26. Hi friends, I am very confuse….
    I am an indian nz citizen, left nz about three yrs ago for good to India, things didn’t work & planned moved back to nz , before i came to oz (3 moths ago in melbourne) as there is more opportunity (as every one feel & i have seen while spending 10 yrs in nz that people move from nz for better prospect)
    but here i find more racism, as i have two kids (1 is 10 & another is 6) both my kids on
    orthopedic medical attention (in nz look after by starship hospital on time & they perform surgery when they feel its needed) here i dont know what would be the case for my kids,

    personally i feel money & opportunities is more in melbourne, but life is easy, cool & ppl are warm in nz…………… so very confuse as i scared to go back to nz, coz of less jobs etc.
    my family is still waiting in India for my decision to call them & i m missing them too.

    • Yip, sorry Australia are proud of their nation. Don’t take this wrong , I do not mean to be rude, but Aussies are in favour of all whites . My husband was begged to come and work in a practice because the people refuse to see an Indian doctor there, The Indian doctor is a very nice man but he is going back to NZ where people are ” more politically correct”

      Unfortunately India does not have a good reputation in the world .

    • Man you got trust me people are in Australia is crazy racist if you go for shopping they will look at you as you are just going to “Steal”. When you work people will pick you and start giving you hard time if you complain they will blamed “you are not a good workers” And it all racism starts with Asian or Indian. Its sucks make me feel sick. I am a Nepalese born Australia I feel absolutely sick sometimes.

  27. Jeff :
    After all this craziness lately in the US, I am thinking of moving BACK to NZ. I am an American, but a NZ resident. Trying to decide the trade offs of the above slighty exaggerated, but mostly true accounts against the chance of getting shot by a real American redneck?

    Periodic “nut goes on shooting spree” tragedies in America are like lightning striking. Most people are very safe where they are, but the high-profile sprees make it seem as if it’s going on all over the place. They’re covered with intense focus on the news. With New Zealand, the problem is the grit and grind of everyday life, an ongoing poverty, nastiness and hopelessness that never goes away. And barely anything is covered in the news because of a massive media / political / financial collusion to protect New Zealand’s reputation. I have lived both places and I will take my chance with the lightning strikes.

    • i have lived personal real life experience and can CONFIRM you are absolutely right, esp ‘barely anything is covered in the news because of massive media/political/financial collusion’. i don’t have problems for them to cover up flaws or some dirt, but when reality sets in and they want to economically slaughter you using underhanded corporate cheatings and political maneuver, if you do speak out and embarrass them you run the nightmare of them not leaving you alone but pressure and corner you into void. if you have to exist in a vacuum or a police state of propaganda without truthful thinking/feelings alongside callous neighbours, the expensive counseling fees and non communicative plants give you nothing more than a broken bank balance and lost soul.

  28. I have grown up children 4 and 2 very young grandchildren but if they all left for aussie I would be out of this place fast

  29. Jeff that’s wise – NOT. If you move back to nz the odds are much higher that you will get caught in a tornado or earthquake as well as being so broke due to the high nz living costs that you won’t be able to afford to move from here and be stuck here forever on this windy hell hole. Good luck.

  30. After all this craziness lately in the US, I am thinking of moving BACK to NZ. I am an American, but a NZ resident. Trying to decide the trade offs of the above slighty exaggerated, but mostly true accounts against the chance of getting shot by a real American redneck?

  31. i MOVED TO new zealand from USA ohio. Even ohio is better than New zealand in regard 1.cost of living . it is very expensive to live in NZ .form gas , grossery , restaurant. basic things. unless you will make 30000 USD more in NZ not worth it. 2.people are rude and british like. 3. weather is very unpredictable rains alot, windy .not worth it. Hawai is 100 times better. 4. housing market very expensive. houses are small..no basement. one story . cost average 200000 more

    • you are absolutely right. first, if you’re on a 30000 USD salary, you can live a reasonable life but you might also be politically placed on a system where you are stressed out and burnt with a 3000000 USD responsibility, effectively rendering you as worse as those suicidal cheap labour in some Asian country or French telecon as it is still in a sense cheap labour on a different scaling system. the damage caused to you on a payroll like this may result in rehabilitation cost that far exceeds the income you received. and yes, absolutely about the rude and british like people nature… just big nose arrogance superiority imperial approach to bully anything away. no need to talk about rules and laws, or to reason with common sense. weather might be better than some places in Canada but i’d say the people are more depressing than the weather. at least the weather does not go all out to damage you except you have to avoid lightening strikes. housing in Canada are must more attractive with good design and quality for the price you pay, but i wasn’t even hoping to get fancy housing. i felt i could live in ordinary conditions with honest easy going people and feel the best and proud of the place. however i guess the sort of white/british type of big nose attitude gives you the unsaid feeling that you’re there to be sidelined and excluded no matter how hard you try to integrate. any ordinary dealings whether in work environment or normal transactions, someone will try to set up obstacles for sabotaging so little in your life is right. you will often be vilified and not engaged with wholeheartedly.

  32. I am a New Zealander, it sucks here, and everyone is brainwashed that NZ is the best country in the world, we are taught it at school and everything.
    The south island is a nice place to visit if you have money to burn, don’t even bother going to north island, i’m not joking either

  33. Jezz, dont hold back. Im a fifth generation New Zealander and while i dont like reading many of the above comments, many of them have a degree of truth. New Zealand is defiantly not a place to move to if you have nothing and want a better life. You will struggle and struggle and eventually end up with even less. If however you are financially stable New Zealand can certainly provide a full and prosperous lifestyle. If you believe, as some of the above comments allude to that all NZers are rednecks id say you are sadly mistaken, yes there is a white trash, redneck element among us, but the majority of NZers are open minded and willing to participate in multicultural relationships. Realistically and unfortunately most often the problem begins with the immigrants and many NZers find that new immigrants make no effort to intergrate and expect us to assimilate to their beliefs and morals, which really has no place when you immigrate to another country and inevitably leads to an us and the attitude. Dont come knocking with your hand out, because it will be shoved back in your face. NZ is an expensive place to live, true. But lets get real, and this a secret not many nzers have cottoned onto, A county the size of nz, everyone assumes is small, but realistically it is huge when you take into account the population, an average global city has at least 5000000 people and covers say 300 sq kms. Nz only has 4500000 people and covers 268000 sq kms. inevitably the cost of everything is more because the difference between servicing 300 sq kms as opposed to 168000 sq kms will be more expensive. Not to mention shipping good to the ends of the earth. Im a firm beliver of any place is what you make it, please dont come here if you expect everything handed to you on a platter, make the effort to intergrate and it will pay off, if you come to NZ and only associate with peoples of your own culture dont complain, you may as well stayed at home. Kiwi

    • For a lot of people, moving to a place where they hope to find a job means …
      they will soon have nothing if they don’t get one.
      Doesn’t matter if they are “financially stable” or not. Do you know of anyone who does not have a job who is “financially stable” … while not being on the dole?
      Also, integration is a two-way street.
      Please don’t ignore the fact that some people would prefer only the money of immigrants and not the person themselves.
      P.S. When the students demonstrate about “course fees” … how come none of them are international, who pay 4 – 5x the fees of domestic students?

    • Thank you for your comments Scott. I’m a fourth generation
      kiwi and didn’t enjoy reading some of these comments either. I’ve
      lived in several different countries, including Canada, Vietnam and
      the UK for varying lengths of time. I currently live in Australia
      and am planning on moving back to New Zealand to raise my children.
      Comparing Australian wages to New Zealand wages is going to be a
      struggle. My husband and I currently earn at least 10,000 more in
      Australia than in New Zealand. In every country I’ve lived in, I’ve
      met rednecks, bullies, intellectuals and easy going people. I agree
      that you have to be financially stable to move to New Zealand, and
      I agree that I find the majority of New Zealanders as relaxed and
      easy going. I think if you can try to integrate into New Zealand
      society, with like minded individuals that you can relate too, then
      you will have a better time. And yes, layering is definitely a
      style choice as four seasons in one day can occur – especially in
      Auckland.

      • Thanks for your input Jen, it sounds like you’re going back with your eyes open. Are you prepared for reverse culture shock and the ostracization many Kiwis encounter when they try to reintegrate? We wish you all the best, keep in touch and let us know how it goes.

        • When I was living in Turkey, I met a Kiwi who told me when you go back to New Zealand, you’ll find most of your friends will be people who’ve travelled/lived abroad. I did a wee survey recently. I asked 20 people if they knew what the TPPA was about. Only 1 did, and only 1 other had heard of it.

  34. I just want to add if you ask a Kiwi if they think Tauranga is full of red necks they will deny it and treat you like you are crazy… Even though I just saw a guy walking in the mall with really short cut off jean shorts no shirt and bare super dirty feet… In the Mall!! Oh and it was raining. The weather sucks… The houses are freezing… I sold my awesome Lexus 400h and moved out of beautiful sunny southern California for this…. Fuck my life…. This place is like Alabama without the Southern charm!! Again I repeat if you are smart cool fun cultured adventurous vivacious DO NOT MOVE HERE… It’s very easy to sell it all and move not so easy to earn it back and get home!

    • Kiwi here. Have you ever considered that you’re living in the wrong city and hanging out with the wrong people??

      I lived in Tauranga for a year and absolutely hated it, so moved back to Auckland. Have also lived in Hamilton and Palmerston North. Hamilton is a hole. Palmy is a bit of a hole, however, during the semester it is filled with intellectuals that move there to study at Massey University. I really fell in love with Palmy. Literally everyone there is friendly as hell, and unpretentious.I would love to move there permanently one day… it’s far cheaper than Auckland too.

      Auckland has its ups and downs, depending on what sort of lifestyle you like, and the type of people you like to be around. I love nature/outdoors and have a general dislike for people, but I find living in rural West Auckland is perfect for me. Nobody here is pretentious, even the local shop owners greet you with immense warmth (unlike many of the bitchy inner Auckland places). The beaches are spectacular and wild – hard to believe you’re only 35mins from downtown CBD when you’re out walking across the sand.

      Just because you’re living in a shitty area, it doesn’t mean the entire country is shitty. I still have many friends and family in Tauranga, who are quite content with their multiple-children; married-young; beer-drinking etc lifestyle, but obviously, that kind of lifestyle isn’t for everyone (myself included).

  35. Moving to New Zealand was the biggest mistake of my life…. This place sucks be warned. Move to the US Uk or Canada do not move here unless you are poor white trash….

    • Jane, I am sorry things didn’t work out for you, but might it not have been an idea to actually try it for a month or two before you sold everything up and jacked in your apartment etc. Also what are you actually basing your the UK/ Canada and the US are better than on. Have you actually lived in some of there places..or are you just basing it on people you have meet! Coz I lived inNZ for about 25 years and London for about 15 years and spent time in France / Germany and the US over this time both for business and pleasure. I have meet some nice very people in each country as well as some that you might characterize as arseholes / racists and well I am sure you get the picture. No matter where you go the grass will always seem greener but in reality everyone country has its challanges and people who are frankly pretty anti social……

      • Dear Essex kiwi, I think your comment sounds fair. Yes each country or school or workplace may have some jerks, and as I must and had also clarified that some institutions and people in NZ were also great, like Les Mills, AA (but don’t expect the driving coach will bend backwards to support the customer – they would arrive for your driving lesson and if you’re 1 minute late they will charge whole the lesson and run away rather than offering you lesson deducting the waiting time); or some people I met who were cultured/intellectual/affluent. Media wise i think tvnz or trade n exchange were good valued and quality. But, the one from 1dg was obviously a publication that was burning trees with distorted reporting motivated by bribes, rendering it crap material only for the hate filled, naïve and sheep minded readership. There were some lecturers that were good at AKL Uni, although I was shocked a few others were gentlemen like but dishonest jerks in private ->overall the level of integrity (eg, method of teaching/exam supervision etc) was quite high, you feel it was a real educational place and you learn something sharp compared to some other places that were even MORE shady and worthless only out to take a load of money.
        I felt I had low expectations of the country, willing to endure hardship, financial strain, unfriendly treatment, not attempting to exploit or take over the country or overcome/dominate locals, or be a complainer to provoke political movements. rather, if I could swallow the poison and pain over a decade ago so nobody seemed to have heard all the real stories on tv news and media to the point the whole nz enterprises or image scared people off or destroyed -> it speaks something about my will of tolerance and patriotism towards its people.

        But after my life and career got wrecked and screwed underhandedly and years of your investment intentionally destroyed by people around you, how much serious violation and abuse can a person survive in his lifetime? it got to the point the whole group of people around you may knew what how you got screwed and just turned the other way, and you literally watched records forged to damage you, you thought how far people go to destroy someone illegally and unethically? in rugby it was a game and people loose some points then drink beer after the game. in life, your ‘game’ (if thats how you want to label it) was not beating someone else but do your little work/service get a bit of money, eat, stay home and cheer with a few friends -> really NOT much to expect! The legal framework could not protect you, the lawyers wont care but only want to charge a fortune up front for each hours’ slimpy work, the judge was slow and might be confused and incompetent, the police might not care much and collecting credible evidence was hard, people around you wont want to be witnesses to stand for good cause, it became some ruthless big white bully that live above the law and stomp on or command anything they want. nothing matters anymore if that’s how low people’s moral go and bad faith in their dealings. just look at the ugly political arguments you see 10 years later on tv etc, there are still these ruthless people making attacks and hate filled allegations. i felt it might be only a matter of time when someone either invent something so they revoke our citizenship, imprison you for lame excuses, politically force educational institutions to dishonor your hard earned credentials, defame you further, strip you off your opportunity or rights to work, or setup any other way like a mocked car ‘accident’ or if their spies or intelligence figured out where you give birth, inject poison into your baby so called ‘accidentally’ so your future generation is also cursed. you either see them in action, or do it behind doors, or whether unsaid still actually implied it anyways. that was how bad it became we felt the whole episode of settling in nz was deadly. i had no ability or will to be terrorist, and if the state was to become a police state where our phone calls and communication was secretedly monitored or tracked, i originally had nothing much to hide or fear. however, when i witnessed the character of the people in touch with such systems – they act on someone else’s business and proactively defeat and sabotage rightful activities by secretly spreading rumours or painting an opposite version of story… all that concept about respecting your human rights or privacy or free of discrimination etc were out of the window, the myth was exposed and the raw deal surfaced – you’re there to be chewed up on all aspects. nobody cares about you for real, and don’t be so naïve the justice system would help…probably the real criminals are free and its the targeted individuals that lack political support can be conveniently scapegoated.

        I have heard of stories from local accountant that in the past a bank A allowed an overdraft limit of $500 for each student, and a lot of these so called overseas people went away with the money taken without returning, so the bank was pissed and closed the loophole.
        i wasn’t one of these cheap people, rather i tipped heavily in restaurants i went to, hired locals for many different kind of jobs, bought local shares to bear the ups and downs of its market, and lived ordinarily playing by the rules.
        there was some good police I met whom to me were like heros that jumped over fences and investigate breakins to my neighbor that I reported, there was also some police who had a cant be bothered attitude. so, you may say it can be a 50/50 chance you run into a normal person or an abnormal one. but i must say, all that rosy great people etc you saw on tv were far from reality. if all those intentional falsifications in the corporate world you saw goes unpunished, your neighbours don’t buddy up you as a nation of unity, and all those many infomercials on tv make convincing claims or all those very sociable people lurking in fastfood chains or on the street who approach you are ALL only trying to get you buy worthless stuff, be it multilevel scams, dressed up overpriced used cars, scient0l0gy fake pricey religion, or any other promise, you shiver down your throat how much people try wildly to prey on others attempting to slaughter someone while lacking decency or integrity – that’s very far from the image in my mind of the nz dream… the happy white dudes, the cute sheep, the clean countryside. the untold/unsaid part is more dangerous and scary. we are only grateful the manual or auto pilots of their airline are still successfully flying people undamaged so if you still have money you can go away and forget about their raping of your souls.

    • “Do not move here unless you want to become poor white trash” – I’ve seen so many blue collar workers with missing teeth, it aint funny. The dental system in NZ deliberately limits foreign competition so existing players can price gouge – tis the NZ way.

      • I remembered geddies dentxl having tv advertisements and when I went there it was quite good, so now after years has passed I don’t know the situation.

    • I feel sad that I didnt stay and my RRV lapsed , I regret not stayed in New Zealan ,, do I have the right to blame my self???

  36. My best friend has lived in Tauranga for 7 years. She talked me into moving here from Southern California. I sold my Lexus400h and moved out of my beach studio in Oceanside California. I have now been here six months. The weather has been constant rain and wind. The people are red necks there is no culture and no life. I describe kiwis as the color beige. They do not stand out; they are not interesting. Every day I am in Tauranga I try to work to save up 20 grand to get back…. but lately I have been thinking just cut your losses… If you like to have fun… If you have personality… If you are cultured or an intellectual in anyway… DO NOT MOVE HERE!!! The coolest people I have met are from UK Paris and South Africa oh and they all hate it too…. Heed my advice consider yourself warned. This place is like living in backwoods Mississippi…. For real!!

    • Whether in Tauranga or Auckland, you will find both those places very expensive and cliquey.
      Think Stepford Wives or Wisteria Lane … I found many (not all) people from both those places that I encountered, very two-faced.
      I suppose people trying to conserve their money will find expensive places not very accepting – it’s the complete opposite of what they’re supposed to do.

      The people are red necks there is no culture and no life.
      All you need is All Blacks, pineapple lumps and Tui!
      To have culture and life in a place you need the people there to have intellectual curiosity.
      Scratch that, curiosity first. Not going to happen when they think they’re the centre of the world…

      I would advise you to cut your losses.
      People win the lottery every day too, but I don’t recommend it as a lifestyle choice.

    • I lived right outside this town for the last 6 months and feel the same way! … and thats coming from wisconsin…

    • Tauranga? that’s the problem right there, the big cities and coastal towns are expensive and intellectually poor. if you are into a good stimulating conversation find people who have a university degree that that with “ology” clearly your friend ins’t too good in that department. I should know, I live in Hamilton NZ, and recent spent six months in Nebraska… now that is a inbreed shit-hole .where nobody has ever seen a map or picked up a book

      • Hi Catt A, my husband has just been offered a position in Hamilton. I feel as Canadians we are well prepared for many of the criticisms of NZ but would be interested how you feel Hamilton compares to some of the cities above? We are somewhat intellectual and love to travel but enjoy sport and the outdoors as our primary recreation. I am trying to learn as much as I can before we move so that I can be prepared 🙂 We are initially coming for a fixed-term contract so will have the option of returning to Canada if we don’t find NZ a good fit at the end of our term there.

    • What surprises me is how many people hated it there but never mention it online. Everyone we mentioned our experience to was surprised, because New Zealand seems like a sort of fairyland to the uninitiated. It is like they are embarrassed to say they did not like it or fear they’ll look crazy, because New Zealand is so remote,and polishes its reputation so effectively, that few actually know what living there is like and think it’s all beautiful movie sets. NOT.

    • Thank you! We came here with permanent residency end of 2007. My husband and I both professionals in South Africa. what a sad sick little place. why the world think this is 1 st world , I do not know. Stone Age thinking and technology .intellectual oh my gosh , No way. y sons lecturers in Bachelor of engineering are all from South Africa , America ,Uk and Canada. There are not one single real red neck left and there numbers have shrunk to only 20 left in 3 rd year. All are immigrants from Italy, Germany , South Africa and Canada. We are citizens now after 5 years and we ,re off……to where we wanted to go in the first place Wide , open, friendly intellectual Australia! come with us! it is an awesome country. heaps of work and white beaches that we are all used too. not black sand minute little bays or nature with no diversity, I am sick of silver ferns around every corner. oh man have they tunnel vision!!!!

        • ‘South Africa people” better known as South Africans do not “only come to nz to get nz passport and then head on to Aussie” a great number of them are in top notch jobs and contribute greatly to New Zealand society, not to mention that they pay a large percentage of salary in taxes which help to support those kiwi who are on benefits.

          • Yes, the ones who can’t get out for one reason or another do work very, very hard. They are famous for their professional work ethics.

  37. I am unsure as to whether your response, Iggs W, referred somehow to my own recent post in here, but to clarify:
    Judges are Solicitors, they cannot be but Solicitors;
    They are politically appointed, following the recommendations of the so-called ministers of the crown (which is a private corporation) and are appointed by the so-called Governor General in New Zealand who claims to be Queen Elizabeth’s representative BUT only to the extent of any man charging him with the resolution of matters which directly pertain to his alleged title and/or when he is charged to pass specific information to the Queen.
    Furthermore by his own actions, Anand, allegedly of the family Satyanand, allegedly acting as Governor General, has repeatedly shown his incompetence, unwillingness and/or incapacity.

    The fact that these solicitors are part of a secret club that they call the Law Society and that they are trained in procedure, statutes, rules, regulations, bylaws, ordinances and the likes and not in Law, plus their Positive Law (judgy made law) approach, is clearly an undeniable non-sequitur.
    They are part of a legal fraternity that in most instances is unlawful and illegitimate.
    The fact that those who are politically appointed by their own party members (in spite of having no clue as to what is the Law and that they are not required to know the Law) is what makes the whole farce more impenetrable, IMHO.
    Annete (King) and all the other politicians who deal day and night with their own “politricks” and how to manipulate public opinion via unverifiable claims, are just other incompetent men and women who hide behind the “mask of corporatism without liabilities”.

    Please note that all the above-mentioned statements can be proven with factual evidences.

    Cheers

    • I had heard this too. A Kiwi friend of mine was told by her lawyer that one of them (someone on her case) had not been a “practising lawyer”. Upon checking into the statement further, what he had meant, however, was that the judge had done very little in the way of practising with a rather old law degree, and had been doing what amounted to social work or related assessments for decades before being appointed a judge, so the person actually did not know much about the mechanisms of legal theatre, and consequently was not ruling on the basis of long experience with the legal system, for example, what litigants must go through before they are heard. Rather, he was shooting from the hip based on the reactions characteristic of a social worker to a client who walks into his office, assuming that litigants’ behavior in court, or applications, were of the same freedom as a social work client rather than “strained through the filter.of the legal system”…

  38. http://www.kiwisfirst.co.nz/index.asp?PageID=2145845375
    You are probably aware of this, but judges in New Zealand do not have to have a law degree. So regardless of any justifications they may have for that policy, people with no knowledge of the law are issuing decisions that make or break people’s lives, and are immune from having those decisions challenged. See 1 March 2008 post on that url.

    • that sounds like a very dangerous world.. your life at the hands of a confused clueless old judge with biased attitude, no sound knowledge of the law, play favourites even if he knows about the law a bit, and probably give the guilty people a slap on the wrist as penalty. or, would the people that violated the privacy of everyone (such as te1econ), figured out the relatives of the judges, and so if the judge pass a decision judgement that penalize the bad boys, the family of the judge become in danger of silenced/murdered/injured etc? from personal experience, that risk is quite real, and it seems the white folks gang up on anything they see fit using good ole boys network etc, so it is only the short changed bullied Asians that are in pain and suffering that we know what the truth is. again anyone reading this may hold disbelief or challenge my writings, but just take a look at who has got married with kids, who is in shock and ‘hiding’ and not even married because they’re on the look out for the next sabotage whether it is babies or kids in the hands of others etc… just witnessing how deceitful and dishonest management people are tells us its a lawlessness society, if you win an instant kiwi or lotto, you may also be in for a surprise that the admin staff play tricks to make allegations you made a mistake in the procedure etc and cease away your money. again, having 50% people having no backbone or integrity is already enough for me to go home and run away, because there is already enough of bloodsuckers full onto total and complete subjugation and economical/personality slaughter, they are more dangerous than the sharks in the sea. again you or anyone can attempt to figure out who I am and do even more evil deeds to kill or silence me, maybe I expected that to happen one way or another anyways… just a matter of time and we all die anyways I guess. but if you think im making up fake stories to tell, get real. because I was so shocked, I didn’t dare to say or write a thing. but someone else probably put up websites like face1ntel or other bullying materials like kickbu11y. it is quite shocking that the corporations that put up antibu11ing content like te1econ themselves are guilty of serious bu11ying internally and externally. so while you read about the happy ideals about what law says etc, who had them in their heart and abide by them? definitely not the higher ups. sites like kickbu11y described the truth of reality about toxic workplaces. but I guess if u think u escaped the deadly foxc0nn factories in china where people were paid peanuts to slave and manufacture iph0nes, when you came to nz and worked for a place like telec0n, it was more or less the same with disturbing ways of how colleagues inflict serious mental and psychological damage, extract billions of dollars worth of work output value and then turn around to defame you, setting you up to be completely emotionally/mentally/physically/financially destroyed, and if you’re still left around alive and standing, setup a princess Diana style ‘accident’ to have you gone for good. none of the western or americanised corporation have any true decency and operate like mafia, nor should you expect you can find heaven seeking refuge in churches. of course with technology, people in power can do abuse and seek you out anywhere in the world and mislabel you as the ‘terrorist’ to imprison you for false charges or true charges as a result of clever setup. where Im left with now after being rescued, people have some friendly attitude and decency, and an ordinary paycheck, and that’s all I have been asking for all my life. as many people pointed out to my disbelief (at first), that working hard in a place like te1ec0n does not get you ahead or fortune in life. now I know it is true (regardless of what hr or agents try to lie to you). I can only guess the real reason – just being that the people at the top has the character of holding onto big financial and political power driven by excessive greed… or is it that they just want to see someone else exterminated and left with no bread or no children… just into some sort of race and I win you loose type of mentality. as the real neighbor said to me ‘there is no basis of friendship’. since it is such an awakening, first, the kiwis don’t deserve your money or your donation or your help if such a chch earthquake or other disasters strike, because no matter what goodwill you have, they have decided they are only there to eat you rob you and no interest whatsoever to love each other. as such, if the kiwi corporation go as far as raping your intense stress burnt out labouring and kick you out, and other many hostile or underhanded maneuver to disturb and damage your rightful plans, I see it is just a matter of time the govt think of some excuse and revoke your citizenship all together. it was very sad that you spend a ton of years of your life in a new country nz and investing, spending, paying tax, helping people, creating wealth, then all you see is that you’re just being setup and picked as a target for abuse without effective legal recourse. either way no matter what they put up online about how great they are etc, they’re just there to destroy you. again you might not even be thinking of succeeding or winning anything and a mere honest living and doing legitimate work. however they go as far as destroying your dignity and self respect, and curse you for no good reason as you were glad and actually did help them succeed. with normal civil people, their behavior is to walk into a restaurant, eat, enjoy the good food, and pay for the meal or tip the waiter if waiter did a good job. however, when im in the role of being the restaurant operator and waiter, the white kiwis walk into your place, ordered things, make up false complaints, walk away without paying, and may even try to figure out all your whereabouts, your connections, your license details etc and try to have them revoked and block any further attempts you do elsewhere to start a life to earn a living or rest in peace at the nz home. of course, they don’t stop anywhere until they see you completely damaged. going online to make a distorted news media report is another way they do it, they are counting on the foul judge in the court to not do anything or that nobody support your claim. even if all the witness, evidence etc are there, the legal folks just cant be bothered, or if they do join in the incident, they will try milk a handsome fortune out of your misfortune as fees, so whether you paid the ‘consultant’ excessive fees to apply and gain citizenship, the legal fees, the training, the license, the tax, the housing, the food, the transport… the facts speak for itself. who has good heart? nobody. even the aa driving instructor would arrive at your home, count from 1-10, decide you are 1 minute late and go away while charging you for the full session. everybody out to screw you. besides trying to export expensive ineffective fitness training classes under the les m1lls brand to milk people so that their right to exercise and health becomes heavily taxed while the participants will never gain a right to become featured as instructor on tape etc to join in the game, the folks at university is thinking of ways such as food science to claim how great nz is, that their engineered food is safer and better so overseas (Asian) market would love to pay for it to make nz rich… making the kiwis that cheat you so much and hate you so much rich?!?! yea right, under the guise of safety and engineering they twist the food you eat. however, even if it started out a good nobel motive, the cheaters probably politically sneaked in eventually to bully a naïve scientist out, steal some knowledge and so called ‘accidentally’ introduce toxins or crap. if you do found out their red handed dirty deeds, its probably too late, because they would use other tactics to silence you and claiming you treaten the welfare of nz , blah blah whatever… that they are ‘nobel’ and ‘only’ ‘innocently’ sold high priced high quality ‘fitness’, ‘good food’, ‘protection’, ‘fun’, ‘enjoyment’ to you, and it is you the Asian consumer being the liar and troublemaker!

    • Even more interestingly, the Tribunal systems of the lower courts don’t even have to follow the law!! (only their own legislated operational guidelines for jurisdiction).

  39. Perhaps it is a matter of presumptions and assumptions being unchecked…
    Accompanying this with the basic “premises” being unchecked as well, the result is a cocktail that surely has a high likelihood to explode in your face sooner or later.

    Fact: This country (i,e, political corporation) has no legitimacy.
    Fact: The presumption of “guilty until proven innocent” existed long before the media decided to dare talk about it recently.
    Fact: All govt forms ask for ‘ethnicity’ and then “Kiwis” (traditionally Pakeha) claim they are not racist but they are the ones responsible for their own forms.

    Fact: The presumption of ownership by the so-called govt, over one’s property, one’s body and one’s life is hardly ever tested in their “courts of commerce”. And when tested they simply ignore that “Justice must be seen in order to be done”.
    Fact: liability is non existent, hence the population learns on a daily basis to behave in like manner to those in power structures.
    Fact: the business commonly known as the Ministry of Justice, does not have the least clue as for what Justice means, given that all judges are political appointees.

    If this still sounds like a “first world country” of sorts, the new-comer-to-be may have great difficulty redefining words.

    However, the men and women of this land (in my own experience), in spite of having learned the wrong methods thru the corrupt education system, seem to be eager to learn how to get out of this european styled, banking ruled, police state and papacy controlled landmass inappropriately and illegitimately referred to as New Zealand.

    Cheers

  41. Thank you for your comment Chris, does st-theresas.school.nz know you’re mis-using their internet service? Must be a slow day in class today.

  43. Thank u, PRay for that advice. And for the information about the bond amt.
    SOmeone else warned me “never do a Kiwi a favor”. They don’t pay them back. They just see you as a sucker. and or conveniently “forget”. I am hearing some scary advice for a newcomer!

    • I am a brown kiwi, i have lived in OZ for 8 years. I am not a bludger, i work hard, i am not a scab, i always pay my bills and If i borrow money off my friends, I always pay them back asap. You need to realise that people are NOT all the same! Some of us kiwis have respect for other people and different cultures.

        • Look, mate. No Kiwis are the same; no Australians are the same, no Americans, etc. Kiwis aren’t all lying hypocrites. Some people are nice, other people aren’t. It’s unfortunate that some aren’t, but that’s the way life is, i suppose: and it’s not as though every other country in the world is full of nice, considerate people.

  44. Question for anyone who reads this blog it standard here to ask for 6 weeks rent as a bond and 2 weeks rent ahead of time before even moving into a place? how common is an amount like this?this seems so much!

    • It’s common. The department of housing in NZ has forms you can fill up. 6 weeks is the maximum bond you can charge. MAKE SURE the person you are paying to is the legal owner/authority to collect the rent on the property you are planning to live in! Have your signature on the bond form, DO NOT let only one person be the head tenant. Even if he’s/she’s a kiwi you’ve known from “way back” who thinks of you as a “cuzzy bro”.

      • correct! and make sure you’re bond is correctly registered with the government agency that handles such things. get a couple of the receipt.

    • @Ruth:
      Was it this type of situation though?
      http://www.propertyinvestmentproject.co.uk/blog/paying-rent-in-advance-to-entice-the-landlord/
      The particular area they were looking to rent in is highly sought after, so vacant properties were receiving dozens of enquiries and being taken off the market swiftly. One of their tactics to entice landlords and favour them over other applicants was to offer 6 months rent up front. Common practise; many tenants do it, and landlords generally love it.
      There’s that pesky free-market economics and palm-greasing to gain an advantage again!

    • No it is not standard, I have only paid 4 weeks rent as bond and then 1 week in advance….you don’t have to agree, just find another place if you can’t afford it

  45. I hate that they throw so much crap out about other countries, but when you say the smallest thing about their own one, they are all over you like gravy on rice.

    Remember Wales and All Blacks in 2008. The Welsh team stood there after the Haka to quietly challenge them back instead of retreating in respect for it or whatever craven move they were supposed to do. The Kiwis, accustomed to their bully permit for life, went on like big babies about being dissed by the Welsh because they stood there. They think they are the only ones who should be allowed to dish it.

    • Hi blues bro, you are right about New Zealanders, they are very xenophobic about other countries. New zealanders can’t take any form of criticism about their country & become aggressive & passive aggressive towards you if you do criticise the country in anyway. They have a big inferiority complex about their inferior isolated country & as a result this results in aggressive behaviour towards other countries/nationals. I have lived in NZ 4 years now & yes the sun does shine more here than UK, but other than that I would not recommend NZ as a country to emigrate to. Following reasons: weather not that great, people are superficially friendly, very boring place to live, is isolated from rest of the world, New Zealanders are insincere & will take from you without any return from them, compared to western europe
      New Zealand is a second world country. Do not be taken in by the false friendliness of New Zealanders, they have a long history of exploiting people who move to their sad little country.

      • Alongside the wonderful shining sun, be aware that it contributes very rapidly to skin cancer.
        I don’t believe people are safe wandering in daylight in New Zealand – in ANY season. Sunscreen is an absolute must.
        Nature is beautiful, but it can be very harsh to those who make mistakes.

      • [This and your other comments have been deleted. Read the comment guidelines. Please don’t troll. Banned. Admin]

  46. Have a laugh at them talking about food shock on this forum:
    http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthread.php?t=698667#post9068814
    The exhortations to feel more moralistic paying those higher Kiwi prices ring very false. You pay higher prices because it’s not off the backs of the Third World? No. Those who think progressive attitudes and organics reign in New Zealand are wrong.

    And here, negativity:
    http://www.emigratenz.org/forum/archive/index.php/t-16887.html
    If you don’t unquestioningly embrace New Zealand, you are manic-depressive. But this poster’s comment was especially insightful and kind:

    wiki
    16th March 2008, 11:33 AM
    Somebody saying they are not happy in their surroundings does not make them a manic depressive.
    You can become depressed by living in a place you don’t like, but it takes certain hardwiring in your brain to bring the mania associated with manic depression. It’s not a title that should be pinned on people who are a bit sad.
    NZ is English speaking, it has a relatively good crime rate, democratically elected leadership and reasonable economy.
    But of all the countries in the world that could put their hands up and say they also have those points, NZ is the most extreme.
    I truly believe moving from the UK to France would be less of a jump for a lot of people than moving UK to NZ. Sure you wouldn’t know the language, but a lot of other things would be very simple, and you’d still be just a couple of hours to home.
    NZ is extrmeme:
    – it’s a small economy with limited buying power on the world markets.
    – It has a terrible national transport structure (something that didn’t bother me until I moved to UK)
    – Transport costs inflate the cost of all imported goods
    – The lack of economic oomph puts the dollar more at the mercy of other countries that some nations suffer
    – interest rates are highest in the OECD – great if you have UK house funds to invest, but no good if you want a mortgage.
    – house prices are disproportionate after they became the most tempting form of investment following stock market instability.
    – Airline charges are disproportionate to flights originating from other countries, again because the population base is small and therefore fewer people fly from here.
    But those aren’t things immigrants tend to consider. Many see the lack of people and isolation from world issues a bonus. But the utopian view can turn very sour for people who don’t have the financial means to cushion them from the extra costs in NZ.
    And if you have a big dream and it doesn’t turn out the way you planned, then you’ll either feel very stupid, or very angry – and angry people spout off.
    NZ can be the most amazing place in the world for some people, and for others it’s an episode of Hustle – they saw the shiny, but when they held it in their hands they felt ripped off.
    For the record, I’m a NZer back after 10 years in the UK. I love many, many things about NZ and was aware of the negative points in comparison to the UK. My OH and I aren’t certain we’ll be staying more than a couple of years. We miss the travel and history opportunities in the UK – which we both knew would be a big issue for the way we are used to living.
    We’ll work out what’s best for us – but we came into this with our eyes truly open. And a lot immigrants haven’t.
    Don’t be too harsh on those who stub their toes in the dark.

    • I am English, Moved to France 12 years ago. Greta for bringing up kids. Thats all. The French no longer welcome Brits with open arms. In fact they would rather we all go home. The French wont give Non-French good jobs, just the sht they wont do. We are off to NZ this year.

      • Patrick, What you experienced in France would be a trailer in Kiwi terms – the reason you stumbled acorss this site was due to your good karma. Regardless. all the best (you will definitely need more than that!)

  47. P Ray – Water finds its own level. 😉

    And what you say -that is partially a language problem, but also a cultural INSULARITY problem. We know a researcher who belongs to a plethora of health- and medicine-related Internet forums with large numbers of international members, and he told me that Kiwis high five one another a lot on the forums, and cluster together or with Aussies on these forums, not interacting as comfortably with non-Kiwis. Their society is like a stamping machine, producing rigidly stamped citizens who seem to interact in prescribed ways to a greater extent than other societies we have lived in. Many immigrants have remarked that “Kiwis with OE are easier to get along with”. This is true. The more OE they have, the less stamped they are, and the more perspective they have developed. I cannot imagine why you would even want to date a Kiwi anyway. They only drag you down and suck you dry, one way or the other.

        • Please never date ore marry a kiwi. I have been married to a kiwi for 10 years and I have done my best to carry an excuse the indifferent, cruel, unemotional, beyond frugal lifestyle… After three little kiddos…
          I can’t take it anymore!! Their pioneering spirit is admirable and inspiring except when it is inflexible and irrational it ruins daily happiness and destroys all pleasures of life.

          • Got the t-shirt. Frugal’s the rule of rhumb for your needs, or the children’s needs ,which are never important. When it comes to their needs – beer, smokes, the “need” not to make a liveable income, have a warm home, or reside in a First World liveable place – ah, you soon find out what’s important and how much hell they can make your life if you don’t share their “Kiwi values”.

          • I hear you ‘Nella’. I too was married to a kiwi bloke for 15 years & have had one child to him, am now divorced to him & returned to NZ, from being a NZ ex-pat in Australia. I have to say, from giving NZ 2 years, I am still homeless & jobless in my profession as a child psychotherapist. I regret moving back here from Australia, but I cannot afford to move back to Australia, because NZ, has a way of keeping their citizens trapped! I don’t know what to do now, but I do know why the suicide rates of females has risen in 2013! I may too soon join the stats!

          • Kiwi here. Not really the beer and rugby type.
            But frankly the whole setup here is to keep people in their place, and that place is penniless.
            Decent income is only available to police, doctors, lawyers and the occasional accountant. (other than CEO’s of course).
            That affects everything you can do. Public transport is a joke. very few people have the time or energy to make cultural stuff work, and culturally we’re the second class citizenry to the commercialised Maori stuff.

            As for happiness…personally I’m too tired to be bothered after a 70hour working week on minimum wage….

          • Even medical income is questionable. It’s good if you live in a provincial town. You need to be confident that provincial NZ life will work for you. It’s certainly not for me! If you live in any of the ‘major’ towns, an associate GP’s income no longer keeps up with what Auckland/Wellington/ChCh now costs.

          • I completely agree but worst of when you say you have had enough if you are not a kiwi and want to take those little kiddo’s to your home country so as you can get some mental emotional and financial support for yourself and the kiddo’s you will be treated like a criminal for god forbid even mentioning that what you would like to do and you can bet your bottom dollar end up like a prisoner in this god forsaken country or loose your kids who are then also left in a life of misery with the arse hanging out of their pants as their father is treated like a hero for providing nothing for the children and you living on the poverty line but hey it has increased their pathetic population

          • [Ad hom attack deleted. You didn’t read the comment guidelines, please don’t troll. Admin]

    • To be fair, you are probably just only noticing the ones that do that. I’m a Kiwi at Cambridge and also happened to have two other students from my year back home come to study the same thing. We didn’t really interact except via occasionally catching up in class. I haven’t joined the NZ/Aus society here, and to my knowledge neither of them did, either (there are clubs for pretty much every nationality outside Africa (although certainly an African society, too)). I’ve been here a year and non-Brits don’t notice my accent is part kiwi, Brits do after talking for a while. I’ve only discovered this thread as I was googling stuff to suggest if people wanted me to bring anything back to the UK with me.
      I’ve dated two lovely eloquent creative kiwi men in the past. The main difference I see is the British guys I’ve dated dress better (and are more aloof), but then, Cambridge is not a good sampling. Perhaps you should just pick who you associate with better. I think you’ll find most people in any country are twats.
      (I can totally understand criticisms of NZ, btw. I happen to hate tall poppy syndrome, how you nearly get yourself killed cycling, and that there’s no fully functional way to buy groceries online (or indeed a lot of other things). Oh and you’re a bit fucked if you want to travel but that can only be helped a bit.)

  48. Well, many of the NZ blokes go with what works. From what I saw going to town over Thursday and Saturday after classes at the University were done, the good and respectful men were ignored. The snippy, arrogant and “of-limited-vocabulary” specimens were the ones never going dateless or without female companionship.
    So the NZ women cannot really claim that they are hard done by, they created and enforce this type of masculinity by refusing to date Asian guys of good character, and by engaging in displays of mock horror or relational aggression against those good men when their bad behaviour is pointed out to them.

    • P Ray that is hardly a position that is unqiue to NZ. Women in many cultures and countries like the idea of the “bad boy”, but then BAM about the fact that he is a bad boy. Its a force of nature thing like gravity and the tides….you can fight against it but it just IS

  49. Kiwis don’t do dental is right. We have never seen so many yellow rotting teeth on otherwise fairly attractive specimens when young, even if genetically not very diverse examples of humanity collectively
    Statistics –
    1 out of 6 New Zealanders dislike cleaning their teeth
    82 percent don’t floss!!!!!!
    3/4 of them don’t use daily mouthwash.
    Meanwhile, almost 1 in 3 New Zealand men say they have felt pressured to have sex or did so unwillingly, shirk household chores, yet they were voted the 8th best lovers in the world. And they shout awful things at pretty birds on the street (Faris)get publicly drunk and brawl. And have skin cancer.

    So many of the choice men have buggered off to other places, leaving the dregs to act however they please and be as feral as they want to be because they know the sex ratio is in their favour. Do not come to Aotearoa for the hot blokes.

    • Flossing is an American thing. Most Europeans don’t floss either, it’s unnecessary if you brush your teeth well. Use a toothpick or smth if you get something stuck in there.
      I’ve never owned floss or mouthwash and I’ve only ever been to the dentist for check-ups. I got one for the first time in 7 years and everything was fine. My teeth are white and straight, I’ve never had fillings or crowns or teeth pulled or anything, my wisdom teeth came through fine.

      • A search of the Boots.co.uk site returned 18 different flossing products, so perhaps flossing and regular dental hygiene isn’t as ‘American’ as you perceive?

      • SEVERE tooth decay affects about 13% of the country’s five year olds so badly that it affects their eating, sleeping and school work and about 40% have dental decay, according to an oral health expert. Sounds positively third world http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11160240

        “Many children with tooth decay came from low socio-economic backgrounds in which parents who could not afford dental treatment passed bacteria from their own teeth to their children’s.

        “If the mothers can’t afford to have their teeth fixed, then they are passing those bugs onto their children all the time,” Professor Drummond said.

        Some families on the breadline simply could not afford toothpaste and toothbrushes as well as food, she said.”

        There must be many families on the breadline in New Zealand

      • They do put flouride in the water though… which I do not think is really good. They used to teach dental care to kids but kids do get free dental care in NZ. The social healthcare does not include dentistry and dentist are not very good here and very, very expensive.

        • A Maori woman once told me that the school dentists are inexperienced, fresh dental graduates who are underemployed and the children are used as tools for experimentation to gain experience. Dentistry is a skilled craftsmanship profession, it’s very hard to find a good dentist who really does the job properly and reasonably. Many in this industry are crooks or overcharge which discourages many people from going for an annual check up.

    • We understand that Clampett lived in New Zealand and was speaking from first hand experience.

      Your comment about Wellington and Auckland being the most horrible places on earth was interesting. Care to elucidate? without stereotyping, obviously.

      Re. Christchurch, isn’t that AKA “the Murder Capital of New Zealand”. Its record for sexual offending isn’t much to write home about either.

    • I live in Timaru…I am an immigrant…People will interact with me and even have a good laugh, but they won’t invite me into their circle of friends, invite me out, or show up when I invite them out…not only does it get incredibly lonely being different, but people are very quick here to make assumptions about you without even getting to know you just because your accent is different. I’m very sad to say this, but in my experience Timaruvians are an incredibly tough group to get in with…if you don’t come here with ready made friends, prepare to be lonely for a very long time (It’s been a year for me, and I can honestly say not a single tear would be shed if I ended up having to go home to Canada, actually I’d be happy about it. Unfortunately my husband is from here and right now is bad timing.)

  50. http://www.listener.co.nz/issue/3355/features/2475/the_unfriendly_isles.html
    “We invite them to live here, then set them up for failure. Immigrants and refugees have a tough time settling in New Zealand, and it’s costing them – and us – dearly”

    “New Zealand has never been particularly welcoming to immigrants, but a National Business Review-Phillip Fox poll this month suggested that attitudes of ordinary New Zealanders to non-white immigrants are hardening.”

    “The requirements for immigration and the requirements for registration [as a teacher] are very different and it’s never been made explicit. So they come here on the basis of their teaching qualifications and can’t register. We suspect it’s the same with other qualifications, particularly those with a registration component, such as engineering.”

    Although politicians attack migrants for “taking taxpayers for a ride” by claiming sickness and hardship benefits, a recent Victoria University survey found that a majority of New Zealanders are accepting of immigrants, but they have little to do with them. Those at the bottom of the socioeconomic heap who have most contact with them often perceive them as a threat. Chile was called in recently to sort out a dispute for an African migrant family who bought a house in South Auckland. “The people next door set the dog on the woman of the house and the children have been beaten up.”

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