The Mountains of Missouri
15 April 2010
Continuing in our very popular series of Migrants’ Tale – first had accounts of the migrant experience in New Zealand taken from locations around the net. For hundreds more Migrant Tales in the series click here – link.
Our Singaporean readers may also find these interesting: Moved from Singapore for a better life and articles tagged Singapore.
This message was published on a members only internet Group, a hybrid between an electronic mailing list and threaded internet forum with hundreds of members. This is a common way for intending and existing emigrants to exchange information about New Zealand.
The author is an American from Missouri, neither her nor her partner are currently working in their trained fields. Earning low wages and eating into savings means that they are now trapped in New Zealand and having to make the best of things (some information has been removed in the interests of privacy):
“Hi there,
I have been following this thread for a few days whilst I was on Holiday at Lake Tekapo. I guess it is my turn to chime in.
September 11, 2001 was our 10th wedding anniversary and we had decided that to spend it in New York as we were working and living in Toronto at the time.
Well, you know how that turned out. To this day certain smells and noises make me jump & shudder. We were wanting to “settle down” and start a family. I am a Registered Nurse in Canada, Israel, Missouri, Kansas, Oklahoma & Texas, Hubby is a licensed Civil Engineer (PE) in Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Missouri, Oklahoma & Kansas. He is also a secondary teacher with a specialty in Math & upper sciences in the state of Missouri and has his teaching credentials assessed at Level 7 certificate for New Zealand.We decided to apply to BOTH Australia and New Zealand at the same time with *** being the primary in New Zealand (as NZ had not approved my nursing yet) and I was primary in Australia (who were happy to assess based on USA experience but NOT Israel). Australia replied about 4 weeks later offering us a 2 year work visa contingent upon my finding work as a nurse in Australia. New Zealand offered us Permanent Resident with no strings attached other than we pass the physical, criminal checks and arrive within 6 months to take up residency. We chose to go with New Zealand. BIG MISTAKE.
We arrived in 2004 and I can say I have been utterly SHOCKED at how our lives have changed. Neither me nor my husband are working in our trained fields. We have absolutely NO money nor savings left after 14 years of professional work in the USA. It took 9 months for my husband to get a job at KMart. A year later he was able to get an entry level position as an orderly at the hospital (only because he was willing to work nights). He continues to work there today earning just above the minimum wage. I went round and round with the Nursing Council & decided to do IVF (FREE) and have a child rather then fight with them about schooling. I was shocked to learn that New Zealand would “pay” me to sit at home and have unlimited numbers of children through Work & Income, Housing Allowance, Day Care Subsidy& Tax Rebates at birth. Not a professional salary, but way better then trying to work an entry level position(AND have to pay for daycare).
Brillant for a professional mums wanting a break, but no motivation or incentive for average or minimum wage earners to return to work. In fact, I know of several families who are trying to have more children strictly for financial reasons as they have no training nor skills. Talk about a nanny-welfare state!!!
OK for the good and the bad IN MY OPINION:
Let’s start with the good:
I love the medical system here and find it to be one of the most fair in the world. Should you want care that is not included (as we did with certain fertility treatments) the prices are very reasonable compared to other countries. I never worry about scripts or my child falling ill. I have found the doctors to be VERY well trained and competent (though the nurses and midwives are lacking even the most basic skills such as IV’s) and I have found ALL medical personel to be MUCH MORE compassionate then in the US, Canada or
Israel. You can ring an office at 9am and have your child seen in the afternoon. PLUNKET is a GREAT organization for both mums and babes-care in the home after birth is marvelous here. TOY LIBRARIES are fabolous and very economical.. .can’t believe that we didn’t have them in the US. BABY CHANGING ROOMS in the mall are like mini-hotels- equipped with recliners for breastfeeding and videos for the older kiddys to watch.TRANSPORT:PRAM ACCESSIBILITY is great with all the busses lowering or having ramps. I have to use the bus system as we can no longer afford to operate a car on our income. I find the prices to be VERY reasonable and you can get just about anywhere at anytime in the city on one.
Schools: I like the fact most schools are uniformed and think it is great that dental clinics are on our school grounds. Manners seem to be a BIG part of the Kiwi education in primary schools. My 2 year old has been taught to say yes please and no thank you. Very impressive to her American grandparents. Regular dental checks are as common as eye checks here. Librarys are a GREAT resource in this city with free WiFi and internet access(although even high speed is very slow)
Jobs: All jobs start with a minimum of 4 weeks paid vacation in addition to sick leave and holidays. Enough said.
CLOTHING-two words:Merrino wool. GREAT!!!!
CHILDHOOD: We were out driving one day with friends and found ourselves on a beach with no preparation. I wanted *** to have a play. Lifeguard went to get her a sand pail and told us to just “let her strip and run”. We took some very innocent photos & sent them “home”. My parents “had a fit”-not a single Kiwi cared as half of their kids were running naked as well. It is more important to a Kiwi that your child be warm and mismatched then matching and freezing cold. While visiting the States my in-law’s refused to take 12 month
old *** out one day until we changed her socks so they matched her dress. Holiday Parks and Batches-the ONLY way to afford vacation if you live on Kiwi salary long enough. They are VERY economical and you will find most of them to be quite clean, well kept and GREAT for kids to just run and be kids. Kiwi kids know how to “get dirty” and play with nothing more then some dirt and a stick. Right now *** is entertaining herself with laundry pegs and a watering can.FOOD: We DO eat much more healthy then in the US-but we do so out of “poverty”. Healthy eating has never been an issue for me and my family and we find the “basic” food items to be the only ones that we can afford. Yes, we eat seasonally and yes I have learned to like my fruit and vege’s. I do cook HEAPS more then I use to in the US. I think it is better that kids have to take their lunches to school (for the most part) and you cannot find Burger Kings and McDonald’s in the school cafeteria like you do in Lee’s Summit Missouri.
KIWI’s-are quite reserved and distant for the most part, but there are those naturally “friendly” ones. MOST Kiwis are basically honest and look out for the safety of children. When my child went missing for a few minutes last month I was more worried that she had fallen into the Avon River then that she had been kidnapped or worse. At large scale events Kiwis often write their mobile phone numbers down the side of their child’s arm so they can find someone to ring Mummy or Daddy should they get lost in the crowd. Can’t imagine that in the US!!!
Now for the not so good:
COLD LEAKY UNINSULATED HOMES-I find it APPALING the whole heating issue. Your heating bill will be hundreds of dollars and you will still be cold. You would think people who settled a country could figure out how to build a decent house to keep you warm. Prices are very high for sub-standard housing.
MEDICAL:Although Jewish I do have hints of Midwest conservatisim in my blood and do NOT like the fact that my child can seek reproductive health care (BC pill & abortion) WITHOUT my knowledge nor consent at the age of 14!!! I find the level of RN’s training to be less that that of an LPN in the States. Kiwi’s tend to take great pride in sub-standard credentials and training.
TRANSPORT-there are HEAPS of old clunkers that are dirty and loud on the roads. We cannot afford to own and operate a vehicle because of all the WOF requirements without changing something else in our lifestyle. Boy Racers are a royal pain and the police tend to have a very “boys will be boys” attitude when dealing with them rather then enforcing the law.
CRIME-while I do not worry when walking down the street with my child about being “mugged” or attacked, I find the “petty” and “annoying” crimes to be MUCH more prevalent then where I lived in the States. As stated, boy racers are annoying, loud and dangerous. There is a VERY VERY serious alcoholism problem in this country, not just drinking but “binge” drinking that you usually do not see until college in the States. Graffiti is EVERYWHERE. The only country I have seen that smokes more than Kiwi’s are the Israeli’s. I see more teenage drop outs and kids doing nothing then I ever saw in the suburb’s of Missouri. Teenagers seem unmotivated & many seem to lack direction.
SCHOOLS-my mother-in-law does International Intakes (in the States) of chilren who are returning to the USA for her school district. She USE to say that the Brit’s were the worst in testing. She says in the last ten years she has seen that the Kiwi’s are BY FAR the least motivated, and most behind of any country she has seen short of refugees. She says that they do not even know how to take the test. Handwriting is awful and most teenagers cannot do multiplication without a calculator or even count change back properly. There is no record of testing, grades, conduct or reports. She has begged me to “homeschool” *** if we are going to remain here (it’s just not in my blood) and tells me that by age 8 *** will be a good 2-3 years behind her American cousins. There is only ONE school (per gender) in the whole of the South Island that offers the IB program which is the ONLY credential from New Zealand that colleges and Universities abroad will recognize. It also costs $18,000 a year to send your child there as it is a private school. It is not uncommon for “professional” Kiwi parents to take their child out of public schools at age 14 and place them there for the IB program if they can afford to do so.
JOBS-there is nothing for me to add to this other then the fact that MANY of the jobs that are advertised have already been promised or given to a family member or friend and they are only advertising because the law says that they have to. There is NO sense of fairness or “the best person for the job”-I feel like I live in one great big social “gool ole boys club”. My husband ROUTINELY sees that the “Asian” nurses often get the hard or difficult assignments at work. There is Anti-Americanism, but it is not so much the fact that we are American as it is the fact we are not Kiwi-born. Most people who dislike Americans tend to avoid us rather then confront us.
CLOTHING-expect to pay Dillard’s prices for Walmart quality. Not much in colour (unless you like pink). But then, EVERYONE is in uniforms, so clothing is not as big a deal over here. An expat friend brought *** a dress with tights and leggings last year with the Walmart price still on it. It has outlasted three other dress bought at the Mall here for TRIPLE the price -and she loves it so much the dress has become a tunic. Walmart quality is better then any quality you will find here other then wool products.
FOOD-from someone who is NOT organic or natural and does not care about such things I find the food to be VERY expensive for very little quality with the exeption of yogurts. Sweet corn was the same price as I paid in the USA last week, only the quality is what the Missouri farmers us to feed to the pigs. Not even yellow with many kernels missing.
I miss the simple naughty things:Cool Whip to mix with JELLO (jelly here gets a film on the top), VELVEETA cheese blocks for yummy nachos, HO HO’s, Ding Dong’s Quicktrip fountain drinks & Prime Rib steaks. I also know that this is just a part of adapting but basic food prices are higher here then in any other country which I have lived. I am totally bored as it is unusual to get new products down here. I did get lucky last week and found Chips Ahoy Chocolate Chip cookies for .99 cents a package. I asked why they were so cheap. “We have to get rid of them. None of the Kiwi’s are buying them, they don’t like new foreign stuff down here.” I can get Reeses Peanut Butter Cups now at the cost of $1 PER CUP and Dorrito’s have just arrived. I really hope that Kiwi’s decide to like them.KIWI’s-I find most of the adults to be quite friendly and pleasant to your face, but that does not mean you will ever be invited over for a cup of tea. They have their cliques and groups of friends and many of them have been “best mates” since grade school. Being an outgoing person I have found myself to be MUCH MUCH more happy when I decided to stop focusing on the Kiwis and just look around. In the last four years I have developed a “core” set of friends-on is Dutch, one is a Brit, one is from Seattle, one German and we all get on great. WE are family. WE go away for holiday’s together and split the cost. The only problem with this is you will find that every year one or two people come and go, and this can get hard emotionally. That is how it is with expats…very few actually come here to stay even though they may THINK that they are at the time. Once again, it often winds down to a job. Had we not had ***, I’m not sure that we would have financially been able to stay.
RUGBY: Other then half-time on Superbowl Sunday,I ignored football in the States and once in a while would watch baseball. I’m just not a sports type of person. I thought that football fever was bad in the States, but it is NOTHING compared to Rugby down here. It seems to be the ONLY thing that Kiwi’s care about. And it seems to be the ony thing (other than weather) that Kiwi’s can hold a conversation about. I feel like it is contantly being “shoved down my throat” and more then one Kiwi has said that I will never be a “real Kiwi” until I learn to follow and care about Rugby. VERY ANNOYING.
SO IF YOU DISLIKE IT SO MUCH WHY DON’T YOU JUST GO HOME?
1. We cannot afford to. As stated we have blown through ALL of our saving’s are are now living on minimum wage & Work & Income. We feel TOTALLY trapped here. We would have to move in with our in-laws and attempt to find work in the American Recession.
2. We have just applied for citizenship and are saving up money to get our Kiwi passports. It now takes 5 years of living and employment to qualify.
3. *** was Kiwi conceived, Kiwi born and the least we owe her is a Kiwi childhood. I want her to skinny-dip, fly-fish, dirt bike, skateboard, swim in glacier fed lakes, jump from trees, horseback ride, drink from a stream, trust adults, sleep in a tent, ice skate under pine trees, etc. Our goal is that she will have fond memories of her childhood in New Zealand before life got complicated or hard that she can tell to our grandchildren.
YOU ARE BOTH PROFESSIONALS, SO WHAT IS YOUR FUTURE PLANS?
1. My husband is returning to school full-time for the next 2-3 years to have a Kiwi DEGREE and qualification. I have been in contact with Australian Nurses Association who tell me that I will have to take a 6-8 week “refresher” course should I wish to return to and practise nursing in Australia.
2. WE are trying to have another child as I am now 40 and time is running out to give*** a sibling. New Zealand seems to be the only country I have lived in that actually “pays” you to have kids. Why not do it here?
3. Hubby will have to work a year in his field here in New Zealand after “completion” . At that time we will assess whether it will be better to return to the States or simply do what most professional Kiwi’s do and move to Australia. *** will be about 7 at that time. WE will have to determine her personality as well in determining where to go. It would be nice to stay in New Zealand a few more years (for her sake)-but it seems to be professional and financial “suicide”.
4. We will continue to stay close to our “friends”. We all live in Christchurch, some have kids, some don’t. Many of us happen to be Jewish but that only means we do not eat pork around the others (some are vegeatarians) -we go “camping” about three to four times a year together and often have a Saturday meal at my house. We all “care” about issues, but none of us are “fanatical” and most of us are giving this Kiwi thing “a go”-most happen to be Engineers and nurses but that is because of immigration policy’s. So, if you are “lonely”
(but not really) and think you might fit into the “group”-pop me an email and then come around to meet some people and see if our little group works for you. We just had the man from Seattle move to Australia this week, so we are looking for “a new cousin”.OK SO THE ONE PIECE OF ADVICE THAT I WOULD OFFER TO YOU?
Set a financial limit, (whatever that may be-often it is the price of a ticket home)-come, give it a go. You will always wonder what could have been had you not. Make friends with expats and other’s in this forum first, then worry about befriending Kiwi’s. Let them come to you. Give it a REAL go and then, if you hit the financial number you set, marry a Kiwi, have a kid, or go home. Sounds blunt, but that is our live in a nutshell.Finances – I echo everyone’s sentiments – Save as much money as you can before you come. Everything’s expensive, with smaller selection and often of lesser quality. Weekend markets are great places to get produce and fruit, sometimes less than half of the supermarket prices. We brought a container, and loaded it w/ food from trader joe’s – only wish we’d brought more. I took someone else’s advice and also packed two year’s worth of clothes for our daughter.
Childcare – Actually cheaper here than in Seattle. And very good! At age three, the gov kicks in a subsidy. (Not clear on all the details, but I believe it’s a relatively new programme and quite generous.)
Sentiment toward Americans/Foreigners – Socially, we’ve felt very welcomed. Within the first few weeks of settling were invited to several neighbor’s homes and social gatherings. It could be the neighborhood, fairly old and v.international w/ many retired diplomats. Everyone at the park we frequent chats with each other.
Hope this was helpful. As our time progresses, I’m sure our experience will evolve.
E2NZ.org 
Family values do not feature highly in New Zealand, its every man woman and child for themself. This is reflected in the country’s appallingly high youth suicide rate, and high rates of child abuse and domestic violence – three things that New Zealand leads the world in.
That right.I and my boyfriend Nigel people NZ had been Vietnam for long time and us hope have baby but I not pregnant.Later one week ago US come to NZ I know pregnant 3 or 4 week Yes I really happy happy because I’m 32 years old and this is my first baby but I worry because I bleed.From when I pregnat ,after I miscarried my boyfriend always violent to me and everytime he always Using his body on top of me a person of his hand give my mounth silenceI could not breathe and do each time he never leave wound on my person
The most fear,Using his body on top of my boddy give pillow of my face and he told to me”die,die ,die”
I can not breathe
I tried to escape him and I become people oever stay NZ a month when he called the police to arrest me was when Nigel suspected I was pregnant second.
And I told the police to please help me and my children with fairness
but NZ police told me that they doubt I want to stay in NZ
they did not help me and I returned VN
My visa is limted visa so when I got visa it’s mean I can born baby or marry and I can’t stay NZ and I must go back VN If I want stay NZ when I and Nigel been NZ so why why why I do not marry
I just want they can help me and let me know Cause my child my children what dead
Why my baby die later after Nigel sat on my stomach and one hand twisted my leg up
a hand to my mouth
I can not breathe
are you ok?
I will also put this in regards to New Zealand, the Dentist is not cheap, for example to have you teeth cleaned, its straight $140 and when it comes to cosmetic dental, its even way more expensive
I am very sorry to hear that Jeff ! And they deserve so much better because they build this nation up with their own hands ! What I have understood from most people I met that Australia would be even cheaper to live than NZ. I have heard the living costs would be cheaper there and what I’ve seen over the internet is that you can get more for your money when you buy an house. Just heard another story recently from one of the many immigrants that want to live in Australia. The Boy went to University here an had a awful time .. students destroying each other laptops because of the competition going on there and so on .. No wonder they want to go to Australia as soon as they can ! And then not to speak of the extreme cold weather conditions the students have to put up with in the south ..no wander everybody wants to stay drunk all the time ! he said it was colder inside their house then out ! perhaps the baby boomers should consider retirement in an cheaper and nicer country like Chile is very popular under the Belgians.. and quite cheap.
You can get an working holiday visa if under 35 years old for most countries. Just check the ministry of foreign affairs Canada for details. About a year ago it would benefit you if you are NZ resident but that has changed now. The only thing you need is to find a job and you’re in ! It ‘s easy to get a working visa as well !
There is an job list on the ministries of foreign affairs immigration website. Good luck ! What I’ve seen many jobs there ! They really need immigrants !
this was in the central library.. Christchurch .often full with unemployed guy’s mainly. Please don’t confuse them with the backpackers who start their journey there ! They are mainly unaware of the problems that are here..
Not sure a fight will solve their problem though.. If not for Asia , China … New Zealand wouldn’t be able to exist !! Forgot to tell them that . Indeed wouldn’t be surprised if the benefit they get comes from the hardest working Asians around here ! Racism doesn’t solve anything.. but ruins the atmosphere in town for everybody white and black alike !!
It’s not only there.. I’d never seen so many people driving around in an city the whole day as in Christchurch. Coffee places packed as we talk. And they are telling us there is enough work and opportunity for immigrants ? mainly new Zealanders I see hanging around all day … And I’m talking thousands.. I don’t know their situation but I have just never seen this in My country in Europa or America during day time. Not even in the crisis !! So what in the world is going on here ?
Not to forget the verbal diarrhea most of them have…just say “hello” and then you will see never ending conversation which surprisingly is equated to higher productivity 🙂
I grew up partly in the USA and so I have a slightly an American accent which kiwi’s don’t seem to like .. So I can imagine just a bit of the racism you American’s must have suffered here. I am happy you are safe back home Cassandra ! You must be thrilled !
Hi Good Day! Any tips on how I can increase my chances of immigrating to Canada?
[Deleted, like it or leave comment. Read the rules and learn some social skills. Admin]
I’m glad I found this site. I am American and emigrated to NZ, lasted 12 months and decided I cannot stand the place and people, so decided to return. I was lured there by the advertisement of an amazing lifestyle and a friendly small-town attitude. I was very disappointed. So many issues where do I begin?! First of all work was the problem. I am a highly qualified accounts manager (which I was working as in Chicago before I decided to move). I have a BA Honors degree from Harvard which is normally regarded highly. I was disappointed to achieve only a junior sales position at a company in Wellington. Is it really fair that kiwi’s with some shitty degree from a university no-one has ever heard of are in a more senior position and command a higher salary? Perhaps that’s why they seemed to resort to sort of bullying tactics in the workplace. I have a weight problem. Its something that I am aware of. There was absolutely no sympathy or help from my colleagues around me who clearly didn’t realize the difficulty this gave me and I was often labelled as “lazy” because of this. I am so hard-working and feel like I do everything in the office without help from anyone. I tried pointing this out to my boss and was told that “Kiwi’s tend to seem more laid back at times but do work hard”. What an answer! I couldn’t believe it.
Health and safety is almost non-existent, I cant believe that if an accident occurs there is no fair way of getting compensation from the person or person’s responsible. To be paid only 80% of a salary by ACC is not justice! Everything seems to close early, late night shopping doesn’t exist and in general I just found the whole place to be dead! Definitely not the buzzing excitement and city lights of Chicago. Fashion doesn’t exist either. It’s like someone turned the clock back 30 years on their outfits.
The country hardly seems to have a military. God knows what would happen in a terrorist attack, most probably the US would be called on to save them. I’m hoping they would get a refusal. Be aware anyone particularly from the great land that is the mighty USA that it is not what you think!
My partner used to do a lot in fashion industry and more often than not she is just shocked with the cheap stuff that is sold here. The designer labels don’t have much creativity either, the local designers seem to have limited creative talent too. NZ has been the only place where I came across mullets, 80’s hairstyles (especially women) and outdated fashion sense too.
There’s hardly one place my partner walks into where she isn’t complimented & questioned about her styling (clothes, accessories etc) and the only explanation she ever gives is…..none of it is from NZ :).
i’m not surprised why GST is being imposed on online purchases now, government just wanted everyone to fit into one uniform – sorry we wont be part of it!
glad you have the choice to get out ! It does make you feel you are stuck in time a really long time ago here doesn’t it ?! Even the songs on the radio are mainly seventies ,eighties and nineties !! hahah
[Deleted, do not negate someone else’s experience by soaking it in Kool-Aid. Perhaps you’re more suited to NZ than you realize?]
People come to New Zealand for lifestyle choices rather than being able to slot into a similar employment from once they had in their country of Origin. The numbers arriving do not liar. We now need an additional 150,000 houses to be built to accommodate new migrants. While New Zealand is not the best Country in the World to live. We rate up there in a lot of areas . Don’t forget we are a small country and we are very dependant on countries with strong economies to buy our products. So far tourism has now overtaken Dairy as our greatest money earner. You cannot compare our country with large countries like the States, Australia UK or China. They have been around for centuries and had time to evolve into strong economies. I’m a proud New Zealander. I love the diversity and cultural blend we have now. It’s exciting times and already you can just about go anywhere and dine at any restaurant you desire. Our Universities are good quality, we are evolving with Unitary plans to build our Cities to accommodate large population. We can’t please everyone’s taste to how the Cities should be designed and built but we are all part of planning and designing our cities of the future, Have any of you tried to join a local sporting club, go to Marae where they have a open day, join a local RSA or Fishing Club? I have and have made a lot of new friends with different nationalities
Jerry Davis,
Interesting comments, however I disagree on one point– Australia as a nation state, is only a few years older than NZ and it was settled by Europeans about two generations earlier than NZ, so the two countries are indeed, comparable.
[Deleted, ad hom attack. Learn some social skills. Admin]
Click to access burdenkey.pdf
Child homicide in New Zealand: How do the numbers compare internationally? http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/74207543/child-homicide-in-new-zealand-how-do-the-numbers-compare-internationally
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/73717177/special-investigation-new-zealands-shameful-record-of-child-abuse
Child’s death: Tears of her friends
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11493353
JUST SOMETHING TO CONSIDDER WHEN YOU MEET YOUR NEW NEIGHBOURS IN NEW ZEALAND..
thanks very much for that, we really appreciate it !
thanks moderator for posting this article ! It is really encouraging to us we are not alone in this battle here.
I would like to get in touch with this lady. Can you tell us in which group it was posted ? thanks
Whining ? you are told just to shut up and except an miserable life here…(at least for most people) Just another view at the newspaper this week that 200 little children died of abuse neglect and so on !!
Never seen any news like that in an western country and if it did it would be condemned greatly. We have got an organised social system that would prevent situations like that !
What a shame New Zealand. And who really cares about these issues ? Well I do ! I would not ever want my child to be confronted with any of those crimes on school or anywhere. Horrifying !
Stand up for your rights , demand well insulated homes so your children won’t die from it. Like it did the past year.. (check the newspapers) Get double glazed windows so you won’t be paying 12000 dollars per year for nothing. And get the educational system on to world standards. Yes it would mean learning from nations that do better then you. But who cares if your nation would improve greatly from it ?!
Get better safety on the work place and tourism industry so you won’t scare more tourists of ! Invest in those things to get an better life for everybody here and you will improve your economy and attract even more tourists and immigrants that would want to stay and kiwi’s that want to stay instead of leaving to Australia all the time…..
Look around man .. you deserve better then this !!
Kiwis won’t stand up for their rights because the powers that be, and the rest of society will not back them up! No one here wants to get into trouble and that ‘s why so many things go unreported and unchanged. Everything here eventually comes back to income, and the almost paranoid fears Kiwis have about losing it. They say nothing to stay safe. I like to speak out, and have paid the price for it on several occasions.
Liability issues in NZ;
*Having an opinion [perhaps running contrary to the “consensus”] and backing it up with facts and a sound argument.
*Being honest and expecting others [in NZ] to be also.
*Having modern and current knowledge of methods used in business/industry elsewhere.
*A pro-active work ethic. [Showing up, showing up on time, staying til work done/specified leaving time, using; initiative, problem solving, time and cost saving techniques, time management….]
Funnily enough, these attributes are highly sought after in other parts of the 1st world.
Couldn’t agree more ,it’s so difficult for spirited intelligent N.Zers ,this is s revenge culture ,people here on this Island know and fear social isolation.If a kiwi feels you have stepped out of line according to their skewed world view the first punishment inflicted on the perceived offender will be social isolation .To achieve this the Kiwi will slander the offender in anyway they can ,this can be achieved in many ways ,if you have a nice car ,house etc and they can’t see your source of revenue they will cast suspicion on your income stream with unfounded insinuations of tax avoidance ,drug trafficking etc ,you will be accused of alcohol abuse ,sexual deviance and any other scum they can scratch off the bottom of the barrel ,you will never now why people won’t associate with you as all this information is passed while you are not present and you will not be given a chance to defend yourself as the majority of kiwis are nasty spineless cowards and will do anything to avoid having to confront the person they are sabotaging .My neighbours don’t talk to me because I have a slight American accent after 23 years residing in California,I have it on good information that they constantly talk about me ,they stare into my windows and back yard any chance they can get ,my movements are monitored and one neighbour rushes to her large picture window to watch me come and go from my house,this is not a poor area and it’s bizarre ,anyway selling the house in Jan and moving to an apt above my workplace in a commercial area ,no more unfriendly N.Z suburbia for me
Oh, and gossip [gos] is a national pass time. NZ is the small village of countries.
I found the neighbours in some of the suburbs i stayed in exactly the same very odd. One of my first jobs i had after a weeks i heard a local (Kiwi) was in line for it and i was to be given the boot. Only one out of the workforce and give him his due he was a Kiwi tipped me off and told me they never had the guts to tell me.
True enough when the time came a fortnight or so later i was told they had to let me go. To say i gave them a piece of my mind was an understatement. They didnt seem to neither care or seem remotely bothered. I had barely been there a year. Most in fact all future employers were all a nightmare near enough and no it wasnt me i was simply a white english speaking immigrant trying to have a fair go in their country. I could write a book on that place just so glad i saw the light this site is a must to future victims who tread on that strange land. All the best.
“this site is a must to future victims”
Aye.
[Deleted. Don’t troll ‘Graham’ – 85.17.24.66 – https://e2nz.org/your-exit-interview/#comment-221851 good luck with those social skills. Admin.]
Hi all ,
here in the library I met the average NZ bloke… young unemployed white guy’s talking to themselves saying.. I will beat the Asians up and expressing more hate against Asians. Perhaps jealous of the Asians because they make a whole lot more cash then him right ?! And so they are a lot smarter !!
Sorry to bring you the negative news but thought you’d better know before moving here. So you know what and who you’ll be dealing with and so you can prepare yourself mentally !
have a great day.
These lame benefit thieves can only work in groups because they don’t have the balls to confront one on one and more importantly do anything productive, they stray miles away from any hard working job. What these bunch of dumb-wits dont understand is that their dole is directly & indirectly coming from the hardworking taxpayers who are both locals and large proportion of them are migrants.
ah you are indeed quite right about that ! I really hope they are an minority in NZ society. Also have seen really hard working kiwi’s no offence for them though.
When I was younger I was doing greenhouse work and we had a lot of seasonal applications. EVERY SINGLE ONE was lazy, constantly slacked off and broke rules, incredibly deceitful like lying about when break time started so they could get a few extra minutes, taking naps when our boss had to go out, the list goes on. Guess who was the only one who worked hard without complaining? The one Chinese guy lol.
Where was this? I’d like to get my hands on such kiwis.
It’s a common view among trash here, though they all try to say Asians are corrupt and only think of cheating the system to get ahead. It’s as you say, they’re extremely jealous when they see someone who has more than them and rather than look in the mirror they instead opt to abuse and hurt the person.
bullying in workplaces is acceptable – not acceptable in US.
Anyone has comments on this article? https://www.newzealandnow.govt.nz/resources/new-zealand-cited-as-most-prosperous-non-european-country
now that you have below answer, do you want to comment on those observations too?
That message was meant to “Lau SF”, not sure if they wanted to know credibility of the report or stir something else.
In New Zealand, there is a lot of deception that goes on regarding the number of people employed, and the amount that they actually earn. On the surface, the unemployment rate at the moment is given at 6%, with the average wage rate at $29.29 per hour. But, the realities are very different. At present, according to Labour Market Statistics, there are 3,638,000 people of working age in New Zealand, but only 64.5% of these people are actually in employment (1,830,000 people). This means that 35.5% of the New Zealand workforce, are not working.
The earnings are equally as deceptive, in 2013, in a proposal put to the government it was revealed that there were 84,800 people on minimum wage (then $13.50 per hour), and a further 221,000 people on between $13.50 and $15.00 per hour. This equates to approximately 17% of all the people working still living in poverty, and requiring government assistance. It should also be noted that many of these lower earning individuals will be earning less than they would receive on a benefit, giving them no incentive to participate in the workforce whatsoever.
It doesn’t take too much to work out that if only two thirds of the country’s workforce is actually working, and out of that 17% of them still require government assistance due to low earnings, then nearly 50% of the working population of New Zealand is getting some kind of government handouts either in the form of a benefit, or supplemental assistance of some kind. This is shown very clearly in the way the New Zealand government spends taxpayer money.
In total, in 2014/2015, social security and welfare cost New Zealand taxpayers $28.2 BILLION. This is a MASSIVE level of wealth redistribution, with vast sums of money changing hands. It is the single largest area of government spending in New Zealand, costing nearly the same as the next two largest areas combined: health ($14.7 billion), and education ($13.5 billion). Of the $72.2 billion collected by the government ($66.6 billion of which are from taxes), welfare represents approximately 39% of ALL spending.
Sources:
http://www.stats.govt.nz/browse_for_stats/income-and-work/employment_and_unemployment/LabourMarketStatistics_HOTPSep15qtr.aspx
Click to access Minimum-Wage-Review-Cabinet-Paper-2012.pdf
http://www.treasury.govt.nz/government/expenditure
http://www.treasury.govt.nz/government/revenue
The reason why New Zealand will never come anywhere close to Singapore is its love affair with ‘Eurocentricity’ and ‘Superiority Propaganda’. Funny thing is 99% of the goods that kiwis consume is made in ‘not Europe’, however owing to the virtue ‘dumbness’ still prefer europeans while hiring workers. Saddens me to death when I see a qualified, non white migrant working on gas stations while the white kiwis ( barely high school pass) sitting and quaking like lame ducks at the top echelon of the corporate and civil governance. They keep quaking their propaganda to the clueless flock of kiwis while the world moves on to better things.
In the end note, this place will never be first world country, unless and until the fat cats are kicked out and really qualified migrants are given their due respect. This country is a colonial cesspit, filled with vile people who are Xenophobic and racists. This ought to change.
Singapore almost sounds like the perfect place to live in a lot of ways. It’s amazing how they keep their crime rate down (actual punishment) and would consider living there if it weren’t for a few issues. Absolutely hilarious when kiwis accuse them of human rights abuses in the area of punishment, then wonder why NZ is getting more and more violent and dangerous.
Criminals only understand the language of caning – which I think Singapore uses generously and in turn keeps the crime rate low….very very low.
Yep. I love it. I remember when those guys from I forgot where decided to vandalize some stuff and got a nice caning and some jail time. The keyboard warrior kiwis were howling about how inhumane it was and how primitive Singapore is. My family and I were loving it. If only we had the same system here.
hahahah that doesn’t surprise me !
hahahha that doesn’t surprise me at all ! I convinced you must be right.
[Don’t troll, enjoy the Kool-Aid. Admin]
I think you have it mostly correct.
But I think you will find most people really struggle here to pay the bills.
We are still a young country that is only just starting to deal with real world issues. We need to put a public transport system in and rethink our housing configuration to activate our towns and cities.
We would love to have greater variety in food and fast food, have more expendable income.
In my view we need another 4m of population to make anything viable
Wish you the best in working out weather to stay or not.
Our country can be a bit boring
Andrew,
Always a bit curious when the ‘still a young country’ line is trotted out.
When do you think NZ became a country??
Treaty of Waitangi – 1840
NZ granted Dominion Status – 1907
Gallipoli – 1915
When it joined the UN – 1945
When it ratified the statute of westminster (1931) – 1947
What was ‘taught’ in NZ schools??
http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/politics/political-milestones
Singapore, for example only became an independent country in 1965 yet has managed to develop a top notch public transport system.
What’s Singapore’s population density compared to NZ? One of NZs issues is enough people in one place to make businesses viable and towns vibrant. A lot of our population is spread out and hard to make public transport stack.
We need a rethink is how we build our cities BUT I agree still backward thinking has left us in this situation.
[Deleted, no trolling. Admin]
http://liberation.typepad.com/liberation/2013/12/the-politics-of-poverty-in-new-zealand-images-.html
I am so, so sad to read the above comments….
At the same time- extreamly relieved.
It’s my dream to live in NZ. Well, not any more 😦
It is true that the message reaching UK is portraying NZ as green heaven. Mostly.
So the above text and comments below it are much appreciated 🙂
I wouldn’t like to find my beautiful, young family stranded and struggling.
LONG HOLIDAY INSTEAD IT IS.
Thank you Admin and all that bothered to share their stories x
Students r mad here for studying their. Students making suside. Can’t make up their living. U now studies here in India r best. Doctors/engg. Maximum from here. Every corner u will find agent for studies to NZ, Australia/Canada. I do not why students ts r so keen to go their. They should study in India & qualify for PR on education experience basis. The vias card is in pocket when ever u feel like go & come, can choose any country. My personal advice to students do not waste time money. We at age of 40 cannot have much options.
maybe all you people shouldn’t have moved to NZ to start with. You move there expecting what you had in your original homeland which begs the question of why move to start with?? You make no attempt to learn the ways and expect things to go the way you want, NZ has never had great infrastructure, wages or housing, if you were too stupid to realise this before you decided to go then maybe you should take a look in the mirror and realise you have no one to blame but yourself and before you say anything I’m not even from there, but I know how to research and maybe if you people who claim your homeland is so much better learnt aswel (doesn’t say much for your education systems…..) you wouldn’t be in that situation.
Even Joseph Goebbels would have been embarrassed by the propaganda NZ immigration puts out.
“maybe all you people shouldn’t have moved to NZ to start with.”
If there had been information proffered such as E2NZ brings up when I was contemplating NZ, I would have seriously reconsidered. The problem arises when the information [research] available from immigration sites and the government does not accurately reflect the reality, it is difficult to make an educated assessment. If you look very cynically at the information, you could presume that not all of the glowing accounts are true, but I don’t think that very many people are wanting to discount “official” data and recommendations. It is only when after some first hand experience that you learn how slanted [false] the information is. Truth is hard to come by, especially when it is being so actively misrepresented.
I do look at the decision that I’ve made and feel as though I’ve been had by a huckster. The NZ sites are not much more trustworthy than a used car salesman.
I don’t think that any migrant moves somewhere hoping it is terrible. This site represents those that have made a good faith effort [and perhaps believed the hype] and made the move and are severely disappointed with the disparity between what was represented and reality. The only hope is that this divergent opinion will give prospective migrants an alternate view and maybe spare them the pain.
Hi Joel
I have to admit I was a bit naive to have emigrated to New Zealand without it visiting in the first place. It was never my intention to come here but my stepdad insisted it was so good here apparently. At the time my partner and I had a happy life in Belgium a heaven compared to here..which I didn’t realize of course back then. My husband was suffering from asthma and could not stay in the overpopulated and heavily polluted city. We had to move for his health. Also I had heard from my stepdad that the air should be so clean in new Zealand so we thought why not give it a go since he promised us to help where he could.
I have traveled my whole life basically since I was born , mainly in the States and Europe even in the middle east where I also worked. I never have had a racist problem or let say any real problem with people in those countries. I was basically accepted everywhere even in Palestine… and it was always easy to make new friends anywhere. For people in the west we somehow get a picture from New Zealand as a similar developed nation as any western country and so it would never cross our minds that it is actually not. I was never fortunate enough to read these stories and so we have lost all our life savings in New Zealand and are struggling to get out now. Like we did hear about places like Dubai and Singapore being expensive but we’d just never thought it would be this bad.. And Yes we should have done more research. We felt sort of pressured by my stepdad cause he got us into it and was paying the permit. Not blaming him but we would have never come here if it wasn’t for him and we would have been $50000 richer…
I am very happy to have found this website and thank everybody for participating and of course the moderator now so at least I can warn other people not to make the same mistake we have made to emigrate here and for New Zealanders not to have babies while they are teenagers but to get a working holiday in a developed nation so they can have a fair chance in life like we have in the west. I really feel sorry for the kiwi’s here. They are just born in to this shit and maybe don’t even realize how much better their lives could have been if they moved out before having kids. I would like to urge them to search for possibilities over the internet. thank you
How long ago to you come to New Zealand. I am not on a high income but find living here just as god if not better than other western countries. We enjoy the outdoors and would never have the standard of living we have if living in Europe. eg….sking in winter. beaches tramping travel around NZ great outdoor life in the summer. I educated my children at private schools and it was a sacrifice to do so but it is manageable. The South Island is more friendly and maybe that is where many of you need to go. There are many immigrant communities there who mix with those born in New Zealand. I feel sad reading these articles and maybe you have not met the right peoples or that your expectations are far too high. In 2015 New Zealand in a vibrant country with world class standards. Some peoples just do not appreciate thisl
Some peoples just do not appreciate this.
Yes, I am one of the peoples that have been abroad [ME, subcontinent, Asia] and have lived in 1st world countries. I know what makes or doesn’t make world class standards and sadly I believe that statement in regards to NZ is delusional.
The scenery is the only thing NZ has got going for it and as the Kiwi’s must be painfully aware of this, they keep going on and on and on about it. Ironically enough, the scenery is also the only thing they didn’t have a hand in themselves. I rest my case.
Hi Hilary ,
If you have the money to afford yes. But then there is still the sense of isolation. Because for sure most kiwi’s leave you out of “their club” . Happen to have lived on both of the island and have travelled almost anywhere in NZ. And in most news papers I read the same story about housing crisis in Auckland ,Christchurch and Queenstown where the house prices will be the most expensive from all western countries !! Never thought about that before moving here !
I can find myself in all immigrant stories here and I can confirm it is for sure true in every disgusting little detail. Also my husband agrees with all of you.
It just amazes me that you kiwi’s accept to live with these burdens like non isolated homes , skyrocket high energy and house prices , cold damp houses . Have you any idea what you can get for that money in an western country ?!
The average rental price per week would be 700 dollars per week just to leave water light and so on out of it. In an western country you pay this per month and you get even better quality ! well isolated low energy costs , better low costs in everything you buy perhaps only the petrol be higher and some cars..
New Zealand is fine if you are very rich and like to be isolated and to be away from it all. But for the hard working middle class taxpayer it would be best if you come to new Zealand on a camping trip. But only the conservation campsite ones because all other one will also be very expensive ! rent a campervan and drive on the left side of the road and you’ll love it. People will be friendly to the tourist most of the time because they bring the money in ! Only when you steal their jobs they will become rude with you.
Glad you love it here and have the money to afford to live here. If you are a kiwi it’s nice to have all your family and friends around you eye ? Perhaps when you meet an foreigner.. just invite them over…
cheers
[Deleted, learn some social skills and lay off the Kool-Aid. Admin]
[Deleted, learn some social skills. Admin]
This site seems to be based mostly on the daily NZ headlines but you want it shut down and the owners hauled before the courts. Why. For being a news aggregate site, or for daring to support an alternative view to your own? I think you’ve been fed a diet of propaganda for so long you can’t face up to the truth any more and are terrified by it
I doubt that Liz ever learned about Voltaire in the New Zealand schools. However, his quotation that “those who can make you believe absurdities can also make you commit atrocities” is quite appropriate. If you believe the absurdities about how great New Zealand is then you can surely commit atrocities such as persecuting people for speech that you dislike.
People such as Liz who are incapable of forming cogent arguments instead prefer to use the tools of despots and shut down anyone with whom they disagree. The New Zealand (in)justice system has a proclivity for trying to shut down those who expose corruption and wrongdoing. If New Zealand is so great, then why must it persecute dissenters?
Good luck with getting a job when you finish training as a nurse given that more than 50% of new grad nurses cannot get a job in nursing. And good luck avoiding the horrendous culture of bullying in healthcare/nursing here if you do actually get a job. And good luck with that anti-free speech attitude – one of the main reasons for negative comments about the Land of the Long White Cloud.
Lovely bedside manner.
I love the drawing of the conclusion that unless you LOVE NZ, you must be sick/ill, have a disease, or are disabled.
Then the ignorant accusation of being racist.
I feel dumber having just read “L.D. – Mintbubbles@****.com”’s post.
Why is it that most of the people in Public Relations …
only make the case for them, not to be in that field?
“Mass Communication” indeed …
[Deleted, off topic. Sorry Jeff, the Agora is more suitable for personal health discussions. Thanks, Admin]
Thanks u all. Actually scenery u r not going to eat year round . u need nice work to do related to ur skill. What about Australia /Canada.
Thanks
Thank you for this story. I certainly agree with you and feel you. i lived in the states for 13 yrs. and when i moved to Ch.Ch. i was literally shocked. i couldn’t believe that nz is considered a developed country. I can tell you many stories about my life in NZ but then after living in NZ for 9 yrs i moved to Australia and then got a very good job offer in China on a contract for 5 yrs. I am really lucky to turn off the light and leave nz. But i should say i have a very lovely Kiwi wife who has been very supportive and understand the hard life in nz. in fact, she was the one who used to constantly advise me to leave nz as soon as i finished my phd. in Wellington. a week after i finish my phd. we left for Australia for four yrs. it’s not bad in Australia but also taxes are high and nowadays very hard to find a permanent position. all what u mentioned about nz are 100% right. if i had stayed there i would have wasted 4 yrs of my hard work at uni. for nothing even when i was at uni. working on phd i could not find any jobs related to my major and i ended up doing low jobs such as cleaning, receptionist, machine operators just to make ends meet.it must have been mentally hard on you especially when you come from USA. i believe that you will much happier once u go back to the states. all the best in your future endeavours.
Well every 1 here seems to experience d. Is job sector is to bad in NZ. I am a skilled hand I want to know will I be able to get a nice skilled job. business with 200000$ can earn 7000$ monthly. Need advice as I am planning for NZ.
Thanks
No Matter how skilled you are if u get $3000 a month job here consider yourself the most luckiest man. i am living here from last 8 years 7 years working in IT and still working on $3000 a month. don’t waste your time and mo
ney consider some developed country which value your skill. once you come here you will be trapped here and waste you precious few years of life until you escaped from this country
In response to Fred, i’m with you all the way, I know exactly how you feel, I am so trapped here and miserable, I sometimes think of ending it all but have grandchildren I love dearly so would never do that but each day is the same, so boring
I have lived in nz all my life 63 years although I have spent time in the UK and Aussi it was great growing up here but now it is a nanny state I can see why our suicide rate is high people are bored you can’t do much with out breaking the law kids are not aloud to fly toy planes in the park or any public areas 20 years ago nz was a great place not now changing fast not for the better.
I agree, the pioneering spirit seems to be being socially engineered OUT of NZ.
The curious part is: why are immigrants being “excluded” ? I believe that the “pioneering” spirit is not PC therefore is not what NZ is about these days.
To immigrate to a foreign land requires a “pioneering spirit”, NZ is no longer interested in this “pioneering spirit”.
I am an Australian citizens with Australian citizen children. I spent many years in Christchurch and I can’t help but to feel you too live in the South Island.
If you do, leave, because everything you wrote is true.
I left and moved to Auckland where I live on the North Shore with my two children alone. Their Father is a kiwi born Cantabrian.
I learnt that kiwis are extremely click, in Christchurch.
I judges N.z on CHCH for a Lo g time and now that I have been IN Auckland for 2yrs I see N.Z in such a different light.
There is culture, educated people, happy kids who aren’t locked indoors by 5pm cause its so freezing out. Great schools especially if you go the Catholic route, plenty of jobs.
I hear your story loud and clear and yes your observations are real.
What about Auckland?
I wanted to go home to.Aussie but by court order had to stay in N.Z cause the kids Dad is a kiwi. I’ve now won my battle and can leave Jan 2016 but think Im happy to stay. We have a great lifestyle here.good job. Happy kids at kindy and school. People are ALOT more friendly and worldy. Auckland is pretty cool on the Nth Shore
I think what Mollie found was her niche where she personally feels comfortable. Known people who still live ‘down south’ and happier than a puppy in a bowl of gravey. Any area (anywhere) will have its lets say ‘characteristics’, just a case of are to your liking? You know how you can get two people talking about the same thing as if it wasn’t the same?
Mollie, my husband and I are thinking of moving to NZ in approx 2/3 years because my daughter in law is a kiwi and she and my son along with their two boys are moving there to Auckland. He has already secured a good job on a good salary and been approved for a good mortgage. She has been away for 19 years. It will be retirement for both my husband and I and we should be financially secure with savings, profit from our home and our pensions. We have been in the USA for 9 years now but are originally from the UK. From what I have been reading on here, especially from Jeff, I am now just a little concerned to say the least. It is bad enough in many areas of the states, where we live we do not really “see” any trouble but from what Jeff is saying it sounds like NZ is full of alcoholics, Chinese and Indians !!! We will be placing a house on my son’s land which they can afford to buy, my husband is a contractor here, so doing anything in a house is not a problem, we will not need to hire anyone. Can you give me a true perspective of what life in NZ is “really” like
I would not completely divest from your holdings in the US. Maintaining a “safety net” would be a wise move. No one wants to consider [from the outset] reversing such a move, but it would be prudent to have that avenue open, just in case.
Several people have rented their houses [long term] so as to not completely sever the possibility of returning.
You’ll know in a year or two, then you can make a more accurate assessment.
“I am now just a little concerned to say the least. It is bad enough in many areas of the states, where we live we do not really “see” any trouble but from what Jeff is saying it sounds like NZ is full of alcoholics, Chinese and Indians !!! ”
Valerie, with that attitude you’ll find many kindred spirits in New Zealand. Too many locals bemoan the influx of foreigners and “darkies” like Chinese and Indians. Anyway, I’m surprised you were able to glean as much from Jeff’s incoherent and illiterate posts.
Where I lived in the States I had no personal experience with theft, graffiti, vandalism, and out of control alcohol related mayhem. Can’t say the same for New Zealand, unfortunately.
My husband is a successful entrepreneur, so money is not really a problem for us, but we resent paying exorbitant prices for nearly everything, just to support the corrupt, inept and greedy business practices of the locals and overseas companies that know what they can get away with trading in New Zealand. They realize how gullible the typical Kiwi can be. I can tell you, though, from personal experience that building in Auckland is extremely expensive. Do your homework; there’s lots to be found on the internet about sky high council fees and general building costs..
I can’t say you’ll be disappointed when you get here. After all, I think New Zealand can be a paradise if you’re a bogan, a scam artist, if you have little interest in culture beyond rugby, and of course, if you’re racist. Be warned though, if you’re looking to take white flight, Auckland is not your kind of place. There’s a significant population of Chinese, Indians, Filipinos, Pacific Islanders, etc. Perhaps you thought New Zealand, and specifically Auckland, is like a better Britain stuck in a time warp, instead of the great Pacific melting pot that it is? Never mind, you can always take the recourse of so many Brits that find themselves stuck: Just tell everyone back home how much you’re loving your life, and try to make them envious by sending lots of beach photos. It will help you delude yourself into believing you’ve improved your quality of life.
White supremacists & racists like Jeff will probably need to relocate to different planet or galaxy altogether based on his comments on Chinese & Indians. Let the summer begin and then you will see everyone turning into blotchy Red-Indians. Isn’t that the colour of the skin everyone dies for in NZ and later in their lives spend more $$$’s towards skin cancer.
Valerie ,as Admin mentions you may not be able to place more than one structure on the property,the compliance regulations are incredibly restrictive and council permit/consent fees are prohibitive.I don’t know where the land is but unless your relative is incredibly wealthy I would guess the land is located very far from an area most people would want to live,prime properties which are subdividable are snapped up by developers for way more than equivalent property would cost in the U.S .Building labor is available here at reasonable prices ,building materials are 40 to 50 % more expensive that the U.S and many are of poor quality.The material cost of building anything makes it not economically viable in many cases .
I lived 25 years in the U.S and I understand that your relative has been away for 19 years .They can not be aware of what it is to live here now ,it’s not the same place ,returning here has been the biggest mistake of my life ,I came here with a healthy amount of savings and have invested and managed to hang on to my money,socially this place is a wasteland,I have always been a positive friendly and outgoing person ,in three years I have not made a single friend here and miss my social group and friends in California.
If you really feel compelled to move here try it first for six months to a year and keep your options open in the U.S ,try to live like a local here not a tourist,take an interest in budgeting,ie compare how much things cost here as opposed to where you live ,even if you are not working pick a place you would likely work and go drive there a few times in commute traffic,read other people’s posts on this site.Goodluck
[Deleted. You’ve obviously developed a taste for kool-aid in the 30 years you’ve lived in New Zealand. Please don’t troll. Admin ]
[Deleted (Other Places). Please read the comments guidelines. Admin]
I found this such a sad story to read, it must be horrible to be ‘trapped’ somewhere with not much hope of change. Have you thought about a crowdfunder or kickstarter to get back home or Australia? We are Kiwis who live in the UK then came to Perth because our family moved there, and we are so lucky that happened. Our kids have amazing opportunities to get into the 5 universities here and my husband was lucky to get into mining 18 years ago so we could afford private schooling for our children on one income. Things have certainly slowed down here but Perth has such a positive vibe, no doubt from the amazing weather. We visit NZ alot to see relatives and are constantly shocked at the sheer poverty and bad weather. Rugby is reported in the front section of the paper not just the sport pages – like you we think Aussies are AFL mad until we go back home and see the insanity of the Rugby culture. None of our friends and relations in NZ take overseas trips or even visit the tourist attractions in NZ. Last time we were home we visited Hobbiton – none of our huge extended family have been there. Another huge advantage of Australia is the superannuation fund where employers pay 9% minimum of your salary (not out of your salary) into a fund which is then invested for retirement.
Good luck to you and your family.
[Deleted, full of ad hom attacks. Read the comments guidelines, better still – take a break and enjoy the scenery. Admin]
I Guess Some Northern Hemisphere People will Think Heading South Means it is Warmer like Up North America. heading South to Florida .Guess What it is the OPPOSITE Down Here…I Met a UK Couple who Bought a South Facing Section and Built a House to Face South. But it Should be Facing North…to get the Sun. Some International Qualifications are NOT Accepted in NZ so you Need to Re Sit exams to get the NZ Qualifications.If you a re “Friendly” then you will make Friends. If You Moan about Everything in NZ then Kiwi’s will Avoid you.I have Heard of a UK person Moaning about NZ for about 10 years and they returned to the UK but were Back here in less than 6 Months as UK had “Changed” while they were away.
I think you are touching on some good points there. As I have mentioned in the past, you take yourself where ever you go, and nothing stays the same, anywhere.
I was born in New Zealand and have lived here for my whole life (23 years). I am a white male with a New Zealand accent and well off parents. I have a tertiary degree. Since I got my degree the only work that I have been able to find is minimum wage work with no guaranteed hours. If you don’t fit into the culture here, as I don’t at all, then you don’t have much hope.I dislike Rugby and all this nature trash. I live in Auckland and the traffic is horrific at all hours of the day. The women here are all bland, self obsessed, arrogant, drunken pigs who think they’re all 10’s. The men are mostly all rugby obsessed idiots. The only activities that they participate in seem to be going out for a beer. The food here is disgusting. Restaurants charge obscene prices for food that’s of a lower quality than a Chilli’s. Also after 10pm if you want to eat your options are McDonalds or BurgerKing, which are also much more expensive than in other countries. There are a lot of fights here. No one backs down from a fight. Even if you were an experienced cage fighter that would not deter the local idiots from trying to fight you. I very much want to leave. PS Australia is basically the same as far as the people. There may be more employment opportunities though.
i found your comments interesting, as we are very different but seem to feel the same way. female born and raised in nz (31 years), half moari/pakeha. raised in poor family, farther.. no father of the year award will be coming his way any time soon, super women mother. no degree, find work easily, decent pay and hours. i don’t care for rugby i have no problem with others going crazy over it, i love nature, camping, hikes ect, NOT a fan for the beach i love nz food. i live in a small crpy town, its the people that make it crpy. i recently went on holiday to europe for 3 months, i loved it, the people there in all honesty made me feel so ashamed of kiwis, kiwi guys walk around like they have a spade up there arse, cabbages under there arms, barking like dogs, cheat when they fight, example: in groups, with weapons, they pick on some one they feel they can easily intimidate, the girls: jealousy, butch, have no class, lie, fight, cheat when they fight. i did not see this kind of behavior in europe.
so much violence towards women in relationships……. girls stay with them.
parents encourage there children to disrespect adults, swear, steal, bully, fight, witness violence & drugs. kids are witnessing things they should not, they are exposed to all kinds of dangerous situations. but in saying all of this, not all kiwis are this way, sadly its what i have seen alot of, (i prefer to have friends who are not kiwi) also i think kiwis are very easy going (just watch your back), they accept you for who you are, rich or poor, stupid or smart. kiwis are more laid back. there are good kiwis, you just have to be able to pick the real from the cr*p.
i dont want to live in nz!!!! i aim to move to europe with my partner who is french, i dont want to look back, i agree with your comment people in australia are no different.
my suggestion to any one, if you plan to move to nz you NEED to be open minded, patient, chilled and able to look at the bright side of everything
Hi there,
Thank you for your honesty. It is good to hear the an sincere story from the kiwi side.
You are most welcome in Europe. Europeans are quite open for foreigners and I am sure they will accept you. Almost everybody speaks English and you may have figured life is quite a bit cheaper there.
I am not against all kiwis but it just have made us sad not to be accepted in kiwi society after almost 4 years..
Even though we have tried many things and met many kiwis. They never invite us or invite us back. We also find it depressing to be around them cause most of them seem to regret to live here. Ofcourse nature is stunning. But better to admire that in a holliday with lots of western cash in your pocket.
I am very glad there are honest kiwi’s out there and you deserve a better life. Very glad you found it in France !
Cheers
hi, 4 years! that just shows what im talking about, thats not nice to hear especially after i felt extremely welcomed by many through my europe travels. we are currently located in the north island, hawkes bay, but we travel as often as we can and love meeting new people preferably not kiwi
if you like we can keep in contact, you never know when our paths could be crossing, i dont have face book but i have skype and gmail if you are interested. my gmail is arijc08@gmail.com
[Deleted. Ad hom attacks. Banned. Admin.]
I have to agree with a lot of these comments, I have been here 19 years and I am totally bored with it, just got back a holiday in the UK and can’t believe how expensive we are compared to there, our small plastic box of raspberries are $6 each, in my local market over there they were selling 2 for 1.50 pounds, cleaning stuff was 1 pound while it is $4 here so double in price, I need a crown, my dentist has quoted $4000, it would cost me $438 in the UK (according to the dentist’s website) my dentist also wants $200 to clean and polish my teeth, it was 19 pound on the same website I was reading. What no one has mentioned are the kiwi guys, I am married to one (I came with an English one but we divorced) and my daughter was married to one too, they can be very nasty, ie start shouting at you for nothing, just in the middle of a conversation, these are not the only 2, I have friends who say their partners do the same, kiwi men are very chauvinistic compared to English ones, all my family and friends are still with the same husbands as when I left and they are all still being treated really well by them, not shouted or swore at, it’s like something just switches on in their brains and we have noticed the same trait in my young grandson who has a Kiwi dad who isn’t interested in him, ie he will just start shouting at us so we are gonna go back to the UK, my daughter, son and ex have never liked it here but I loved it originally but now wish I was back over there, (and have done for years now) I have been everywhere here numerous times, ie Auckland, Wellington, etc, it’s all just the same old, same old but there are so many places back there I haven’t visited. Another thing I have always hated here is Christmas, (even when i liked it here) jit’s ust another day, no atmosphere like in the UK and my ex hated the fact that Christmas was also summer holiday time then he had all year to work without a proper break as he had to have a month off at Christmas as the firm shut down.
A law suit may be the result. Most times, vehicle modification is safe enough to not result in anything bad happening. Putting yourself in a vehicle that you altered should be enough to make sure that things are safe.
There are some vehicles [in NZ] that you wonder how they got WoFed. Maybe on the road illegally? So, no real guarantee of “safety”.
Bureaucrats have to create rules that factor to the lowest common denominator so we’re all drug down. I hate being penalised for someone else’s idiotic actions. The “nanny state” is not an environment that encourages innovation. “Nanny state” rules are alive and well in NZ and seem to only hold back the law abiding folks, the ones that need regulation are beyond the grasp of the law.
“Cash for clunkers” was a stimulus [political] program, pure and simple, had nothing to do with cars.
There are certain alterations that are used quite often and have been for some time that are not allowed in NZ with out a “certification”. Tires and wheels over a certain %, lift shackles, engine size/swap, transmission swap, all mainstays of “hotrodding”. The truck that I drove for years [State side} would have been “illegal” unless hundreds were spent on “certification”, yet it worked better, was safer, and lasted longer than as delivered by the factory with a few modifications that were easily done by me without some bureaucrat looking over my shoulder.
There are some states that require periodic inspections. But they just check for lights, tread depth [not size], horn… Very non intrusive. Then there are some states that say “maintain vehicle in roadworthy” condition. Serious violations can be caught by equipment checks by police. Lets face it, they know it when they see it. And there are not vehicles flying off the road because they are not safe. It hasn’t been the problem that it is made to be in NZ.
All in all, I don’t see much benefit in the over regulation, unless common sense is so uncommon that there is an attempt to regulate it. That has a very low index of probability of success.
I agree there is an attempt to dumb down the population with the idea we can’t be trusted to do anything ourselves, at least that’s what it seems like. Who are these people that desire to control our enterprise? Majority I have met drive a keyboard and have little if any, practical experience. They themselves believe that you need a ‘qualified’ person to perform all manner of really simple tasks, they reflect their own lack of ability on to others, the idea that if they can’t do it, how can you possibly be able?
There is still facility to build your own house, as for needing to certify vehicle modifications, I understand while there is some cost, it’s reasonably straight forward. The problem was in the past those who modified vehicles and did some really stupid stuff, followed by the accident, media drama, them you have the keyboard mob step in and someone decides we need regulation. Truth is that the WOF check should really have uncovered the defect, but things were let go. What happens in the states when you modify a vehicle unsafely? Do you open yourself up to being sued? At least we didn’t have the cash for clunkers programme, not that it wasn’t suggested.
I will say that “traffic” in NZ [except for major centers] is quite a bit less. In the States, driving 1.5 hours in the morning and 2 hours coming home was not out of the question. So, having a 10-15 min commute was nice and the offsetting cost of fuel was a boost to the bottom line.
I do not like the intrusive WoF process. I have always liked to hotrod erm improve vehicles. This is not easy to do here as most things HAVE to stay the same as vehicle was delivered. Changing engines, suspension, brakes, all need “certification” from some government bureaucrat.
“Some of the vehicles you see in some states in the U.S. with rotted sills etc, would never be on the road here.” Yet these vehicles seem to be able to survive quite well on the road otherwise they be parked. Makes you wonder if the “safety” inspections are really necessary or just there to protect people from a lack of common sense.
I have heard of relatives in Auckland taking up to one and a half hours each way, that’s something I wouldn’t like to experience.
It appears you can still do most things automotive in NZ if you follow the right path, and pay someone to certify. You would be right re our WOF, kind of an indicator that we can’t be trusted to use common sense. Unfortunately there is someone (govt) that will provide the ‘guidance’ we need, how thankful I am, not.
Ever notice how light switches etc should be installed by a licenced, qualified professional yet you can buy them at any hardware no questions asked?
The building sector is getting more regulated yet there is still provision for self build under the new regulations.
Personally I prefer a lot less regulation, but it all changed through the eighties. I find it all to intrusive, but today’s younger people have grown into it and largely accept the norm.
The house I live in has tripled in value since 2000, unfortunately my income hasn’t even doubled in the same period.
I believe we were better off prior to ‘user pays’, my children will have it harder in many ways i.e. buy a house, suppose we can’t turn the clock back though now.
” and pay someone to certify”. So, you have to pay to play. I’ve done most “maintenance” on my vehicle, I’m just waiting for someone [at the WoF] to tell me that I’d “need a cert to do that”.
In the States, a home owner can do pretty much anything, electrical, plumbing. I guess there is an implied responsibility that you don’t want to do harm to your own house. Heck, it wasn’t that long ago that people used to build their own houses [with no formal training]. People are getting dumbed down by being not allowed to do things for themselves. I still try to do as much as I can, just so that it makes life interesting.
NZ schools do have reports/grades and meetings with teachers etc, I can speak to my three children’s teachers at anytime. The decile rating is a reflection of the local economic prosperity, or otherwise. There is no reflection on the standard of teaching. In fact lower decile schools maybe better funded. Higher decile schools require more parent ‘voluntary donations’. We have found with our three children there can be quite a bit of snobbery as well, as children reflect their parents sentiments at higher decile schools.
Govt benefits such as working for families or subsidised childcare, tax credits, are geared to those in work. To be fair, they amount to a low income subsidy, many NZ employers wouldn’t survive without them, or at least be making a lot less money, yes many NZ workers are poorly paid, the govt encourages both parents to work. If we moved back say 25 years to one income earner the power would shift to the employee, now we have a slight surplus of workers.
The initial article mentioned corn… Never seen substandard corn as was described on sale. Suggest a different retailer.
Most Kiwi’s are friendly and welcoming, some immigrants can be quite stand offish till they get to know people or wish to continue to experience the benefits while living their old way with no desire to become part of their new home, what’s the point?
If you come here and expect to make your fortune, you are likely to disappointed, many things are quite expensive compared to what you earn, if do you would like a great quality of life, you should be happy. Consider smaller centres rather than the larger ones. We live in New Plymouth, my wife leaves for work a max of five minutes before work… bit better than what you may have experienced, at least you have your travel costs knocked on the head as well as the extra day a week you spent traveling to and from work.
We switched roles, I ‘m now the quote ‘primary caregiver’ and my wife works full time. Has worked well for us. Previous had traveled twenty minutes each way, and had to use my own vehicle. Public transport can be expensive and not efficient unless it is directly point to point at the right time(s).
Re the initial article referring to a lot of “clunkers” on the road, the following comment referred to an inability to afford to pay for maintenance to pass the twice yearly safety inspection, (WOF). So if the vehicles pass a stringent safety inspection they can’t really be classed as clunkers. Some of the vehicles you see in some states in the U.S. with rotted sills etc, would never be on the road here. We also benefit from a vast selection of different models you wouldn’t find elsewhere. Remember, no new vehicle is environmentally friendly in its manufacture and eventual disposal. You may not like the cost of gas though…
You need to weigh up in truth what you are looking for, and decide whether you will find what you are looking for, remember where ever you go, you take yourself.
One other thought I had is that public schools have a thing called a ‘decile’ rating. I can explain the misunderstanding that may lead to the belief that students from NZ can’t or won’t perform well internationally privately but as far as schools go you need to live ‘in zone’ for the good public ones. There are good public schools-you just need to know where.
I’m so sorry you are having a tough time here. I agree with almost all of what you say and I am a kiwi. I am certain I can help you or your husband get in a better position over here and if you are still in New Zealand please reply to this post and I will find a way of getting in touch with you to help you out. All cannot be lost yet! p.s. I can assure you that I can hold a conversation about things other than Rugby and you are most welcome for a cup of tea and a biscuit anytime.
Hi! I’m Clara,38 yrs,married,with 3 kids.I’m not a professional but do you think I can still find a job in New Zealand? Im honest, hardworking and can work under pressure with minimal supervision.Thanks
I grew up in NZ , had a fabulous childhood there, I’m actually thinking of returning after being in Australia for 30 years..I am so over the traffic here, the heat, the bugs and sore losers lol. Time to go home, aaah beautiful NewZealand, where the Tui sings in the Kowai tree and the sun tips the mountain tops with Gold!
Kowhai….God you are such an abruti…. Americans are just so full of merde. I am not from NZ but i can assure you that i would choose to live there over anywhere in America, based on the fact that they are both countries where good incomes are necessary to allow you to enjoy life but at least Kiwis are not hypocrite abou it and fake smiling at all times(i freacking hate this about North americans…cant be genuine) . Grown up kiwis that i know are way more interesting to hang around than hilariously dumb yanks who all think they are educated.In USA: No wealth no education.Period. I doubt any of you knows anything about Voltaire so before you start dropping names for the sake of sounding smart maybe you should face the fact that your country was/is/will be built on foreigners intellect.
smiling at all times
At least they’ve got something to smile about. Rather presumptuous to think you know what they are thinking, don’t you think? You wouldn’t have to worry about smiling faces if you were in NZ, everyone is grumpy.
You’d be a good fit, they obviously saw right through your pretensions in the States.
This is the sentence many have said before making the move….”I am not from NZ but i can assure you that i would choose to live there over anywhere in America”.
We will all wait for your post-landing-experience-posts-or-comments after you bring in your life savings and work tirelessly 24/7 just so that millions of people can survive on dole paid by taxes from the working community.
Oh BTW “foreigners intellect”? I think its high time you research a bit more, all of your “interesting” friends also fall under the same category unless they were born from the molten lava.
ok! having read almost all of the comments, I think it’s too late for me to back out! moving to NZ this year. Great! Still hoping for the best though.
[Deleted. Read the comment guidelines, specifically: Kool-Aid and telling people to leave.
Regards, Admin]
I am very disappointed for a so called “first world” nation the low standards of everything here( eg terrible building quality, low quality school and tertiary education, poor quality and limited range of supermarket food, anti education, anti intellectual, discrimination against high achievers a.k.a tall poppy syndrome, hiring either the cheapest person for a even a top level job or one’s mate, horrible roads and terrible driving skills)
Then the ridiculously high cost of living, for services – rip of prices for everything. Thanks to the asians and other immigrant in auckland I have cheaper alternatives at fairly good quality
Then we have the superficially /artificially polite( but never truly friendly) locals ( Not all of course) who are multi faced, backstab you frequently, dishonest, racist, small minded and petty.THe locals do not like immigrants at all and do not want anything to do with immigrants except taste their food sometimes. Immigrants are much more than food, dear kiwis. You can learn a lot from us like family values, thrift, hard work, excellence, hiring on merit, being frank and straight to the face, productivity, new knowledge etc
Worst of all is the dishonest job market where many jobs are falsely advertised as there really is not many new positions created, fraudulent job search agencies who interview for jobs which they already have found the person, discriminate against highly skilled workers by saying they do not like your accent, you are over qualified and you lack local experience( even experience from another kiwi town does not count as if christchurch in a a different nation from Auckland- the parochial bastards)
Then you learn give the position to a close to an illiterate and uneducated kiwi mate of the company boss.
You cannot trust any local here as theyl will talk to you in a friendly manner and you think they are your friend but they are waiting to complain behind your back just to be one up on you or to bully you
EVen the scenery in NZ is over rated. There are many other more beautiful places in the world, North American and Alaska, South America, Switzerland, Austria, Scotland, the Mediteranean nations, tropical paradises like hawaii , malaysia ,kerala, fiji
The only thing good is the lack of people , lack of congestion and clean air and some immigrants who are nice and fiendly
Toxic people in a nation meant only for very rich retired people who do need to mix with the locals
You have nailed mate, I read truth and true experience in your text. Before I found this website/blog I had no one to talk to so I had only myself to give and take reference from. I am so relieved that we have a voice on here, thank you Admin people for giving us the chance to get it off our shoulders and share these very real experiences. It is not a 1st world country indeed, we have serious medical staff shortages. But I know my way around now, I choose to go to an immigrant doctor, choose to ask questions to an Asian, always go out of my way to wait in a que where there is an Asian to help me – they are so much more pleasurable to work with and so polite, they can smile and really mean it. I am so tired of dealing with rude impolite kiwis from caravan sales to medical staff, they have no sense of service & comradeship. I am here for the most beautiful landscapes and clean air and lack of people, there are worse situations in other countries so I found a way to make life a little more pleasing by making these choices like choosing to interact with Asians and other immigrants who do the job better, I still have to meet that warm hearted kiwi who will offer me a cuppa one day – 6 years I am still waiting despite all my invitations that all went avoided which is a common culture.
Dear Plain Jane,
You are right about coming into contact with problems regarding crime and violence. When we were over there in 1991 we were in Whakatane, walking to a restaurant for dinner and saw a gang of Maori youths overturning and torching a car in a side street. Also staying in Russell we went for a drink in one of the pubs but everyone in the bar stopped talking, the guitar player stopped playing and we swallowed our drink as fast as we could as we were obviously not welcome there. But my circumstances have changed 100%. I did notice when I was there in 2013 and 2014 there seemed to be a lot of aimless youths hanging around shopping centres. I still feel positive about moving over there, as NZ seems to offer me what I want in my senior years. If you want to get out of there, maybe you would like to buy my house!!! Cheers!
Sorry about the cat problem. The only thing I can suggest is you keep looking after the cat, get it into condition and get it desexed as the owners are obviously going to ignore the problem. How did they find out who the owners were anyway? Over here microchipping and registration is compulsory where I live for domestic cats and dogs but some people choose to ignore the rules, and always will I guess.
[Deleted. Katatonic you were banned for trolling a year ago. The ban still stands.]
Dear Plain Jane, Thank you so much for your very interesting comments about my desire to move to NZ. I have been over there five times since the 70’s, and bathed in something like 40 hot springs ranging from puddles in farmers’ paddocks to luxury spas, and I am very aware of the risks of amoebic meningitis; I know not to put my head under! (Thanks.) I found the link about the pensions very helpful indeed and with the aid of Centrelink here and various other sites I find that I can still claim my Australian pension.
Your comment “do you really think as an Australian you would be warmly accepted” chilled me rather. I would really hope that being an Australian, New Zealand residents would not regard me as foreign enough to be an enemy, I love the place and the people, but realise that living there is different to being on holidays. I’m an older person, too, and don’t make waves. There is a lot of negativity on the website here, but most people’s circumstances are completely different from mine – they are looking for work and have children to consider as well.
Crime happens here, too. My small town in central Victoria (population 3000) has been named “the Ice capital of Australia” thanks to a very biased documentary broadcast by the ABC highlighting the drug problems of just one very small group of people. I know there are some racial issues between Maori/Pakeha, as there are between white/Aboriginal Australians, but I guess we have less problems here. I think wherever you go there are bound to be some kind of problems, but I am hoping my positive attitude would see me through. I have many and varied interests and would like to be involved with whatever activities for seniors are on offer.
Like you said, I think I just have to bite the bullet and do it, life here does not offer me much so I would like to live the rest of it somewhere where I really want to be.
[Deleted. Katatonic you were banned for trolling a year ago. The ban still stands.]
[Deleted. Katatonic you were banned for trolling a year ago. The ban still stands.]