We Chose To Go With New Zealand. BIG MISTAKE

Missouri Mountains

The Mountains of Missouri

15 April 2010

Continuing in our very popular series of Migrants’ Tale – first had accounts of the migrant experience in New Zealand taken from locations around the net. For hundreds more Migrant Tales in the series click here – link.

Our Singaporean readers may also find these interesting: Moved from Singapore for a better life and articles tagged Singapore.

This message was published on a members only internet Group, a hybrid between an electronic mailing list and threaded internet forum with hundreds of members. This is a common way for intending and existing emigrants to exchange information about New Zealand.

The author is an American from Missouri, neither her nor her partner are currently working in their trained fields. Earning low wages and eating into savings means that they are now trapped in New Zealand and having to make the best of things (some information has been removed in the interests of privacy):

“Hi there,

I have been following this thread for a few days whilst I was on Holiday at Lake Tekapo. I guess it is my turn to chime in.

September 11, 2001 was our 10th wedding anniversary and we had decided that to spend it in New York as we were working and living in Toronto at the time.
Well, you know how that turned out. To this day certain smells and noises make me jump & shudder. We were wanting to “settle down” and start a family. I am a Registered Nurse in Canada, Israel, Missouri, Kansas, Oklahoma & Texas, Hubby is a licensed Civil Engineer (PE) in Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Missouri, Oklahoma & Kansas. He is also a secondary teacher with a specialty in Math & upper sciences in the state of Missouri and has his teaching credentials assessed at Level 7 certificate for New Zealand.

We decided to apply to BOTH Australia and New Zealand at the same time with *** being the primary in New Zealand (as NZ had not approved my nursing yet) and I was primary in Australia (who were happy to assess based on USA experience but NOT Israel). Australia replied about 4 weeks later offering us a 2 year work visa contingent upon my finding work as a nurse in Australia. New Zealand offered us Permanent Resident with no strings attached other than we pass the physical, criminal checks and arrive within 6 months to take up residency. We chose to go with New Zealand. BIG MISTAKE.

We arrived in 2004 and I can say I have been utterly SHOCKED at how our lives have changed. Neither me nor my husband are working in our trained fields. We have absolutely NO money nor savings left after 14 years of professional work in the USA. It took 9 months for my husband to get a job at KMart. A year later he was able to get an entry level position as an orderly at the hospital (only because he was willing to work nights). He continues to work there today earning just above the minimum wage. I went round and round with the Nursing Council & decided to do IVF (FREE) and have a child rather then fight with them about schooling. I was shocked to learn that New Zealand would “pay” me to sit at home and have unlimited numbers of children through Work & Income, Housing Allowance, Day Care Subsidy& Tax Rebates at birth. Not a professional salary, but way better then trying to work an entry level position(AND have to pay for daycare).

Brillant for a professional mums wanting a break, but no motivation or incentive for average or minimum wage earners to return to work. In fact, I know of several families who are trying to have more children strictly for financial reasons as they have no training nor skills. Talk about a nanny-welfare state!!!

OK for the good and the bad IN MY OPINION:

Let’s start with the good:
I love the medical system here and find it to be one of the most fair in the world. Should you want care that is not included (as we did with certain fertility treatments) the prices are very reasonable compared to other countries. I never worry about scripts or my child falling ill. I have found the doctors to be VERY well trained and competent (though the nurses and midwives are lacking even the most basic skills such as IV’s) and I have found ALL medical personel to be MUCH MORE compassionate then in the US, Canada or
Israel. You can ring an office at 9am and have your child seen in the afternoon. PLUNKET is a GREAT organization for both mums and babes-care in the home after birth is marvelous here. TOY LIBRARIES are fabolous and very economical.. .can’t believe that we didn’t have them in the US. BABY CHANGING ROOMS in the mall are like mini-hotels- equipped with recliners for breastfeeding and videos for the older kiddys to watch.

TRANSPORT:PRAM ACCESSIBILITY is great with all the busses lowering or having ramps. I have to use the bus system as we can no longer afford to operate a car on our income. I find the prices to be VERY reasonable and you can get just about anywhere at anytime in the city on one.

Schools: I like the fact most schools are uniformed and think it is great that dental clinics are on our school grounds. Manners seem to be a BIG part of the Kiwi education in primary schools. My 2 year old has been taught to say yes please and no thank you. Very impressive to her American grandparents. Regular dental checks are as common as eye checks here. Librarys are a GREAT resource in this city with free WiFi and internet access(although even high speed is very slow)

Jobs: All jobs start with a minimum of 4 weeks paid vacation in addition to sick leave and holidays. Enough said.

CLOTHING-two words:Merrino wool. GREAT!!!!

CHILDHOOD: We were out driving one day with friends and found ourselves on a beach with no preparation. I wanted *** to have a play. Lifeguard went to get her a sand pail and told us to just “let her strip and run”. We took some very innocent photos & sent them “home”. My parents “had a fit”-not a single Kiwi cared as half of their kids were running naked as well. It is more important to a Kiwi that your child be warm and mismatched then matching and freezing cold. While visiting the States my in-law’s refused to take 12 month
old *** out one day until we changed her socks so they matched her dress. Holiday Parks and Batches-the ONLY way to afford vacation if you live on Kiwi salary long enough. They are VERY economical and you will find most of them to be quite clean, well kept and GREAT for kids to just run and be kids. Kiwi kids know how to “get dirty” and play with nothing more then some dirt and a stick. Right now *** is entertaining herself with laundry pegs and a watering can.

FOOD: We DO eat much more healthy then in the US-but we do so out of “poverty”. Healthy eating has never been an issue for me and my family and we find the “basic” food items to be the only ones that we can afford. Yes, we eat seasonally and yes I have learned to like my fruit and vege’s. I do cook HEAPS more then I use to in the US. I think it is better that kids have to take their lunches to school (for the most part) and you cannot find Burger Kings and McDonald’s in the school cafeteria like you do in Lee’s Summit Missouri.

KIWI’s-are quite reserved and distant for the most part, but there are those naturally “friendly” ones. MOST Kiwis are basically honest and look out for the safety of children. When my child went missing for a few minutes last month I was more worried that she had fallen into the Avon River then that she had been kidnapped or worse. At large scale events Kiwis often write their mobile phone numbers down the side of their child’s arm so they can find someone to ring Mummy or Daddy should they get lost in the crowd. Can’t imagine that in the US!!!

Now for the not so good:

COLD LEAKY UNINSULATED HOMES-I find it APPALING the whole heating issue. Your heating bill will be hundreds of dollars and you will still be cold. You would think people who settled a country could figure out how to build a decent house to keep you warm. Prices are very high for sub-standard housing.

MEDICAL:Although Jewish I do have hints of Midwest conservatisim in my blood and do NOT like the fact that my child can seek reproductive health care (BC pill & abortion) WITHOUT my knowledge nor consent at the age of 14!!! I find the level of RN’s training to be less that that of an LPN in the States. Kiwi’s tend to take great pride in sub-standard credentials and training.

TRANSPORT-there are HEAPS of old clunkers that are dirty and loud on the roads. We cannot afford to own and operate a vehicle because of all the WOF requirements without changing something else in our lifestyle. Boy Racers are a royal pain and the police tend to have a very “boys will be boys” attitude when dealing with them rather then enforcing the law.

CRIME-while I do not worry when walking down the street with my child about being “mugged” or attacked, I find the “petty” and “annoying” crimes to be MUCH more prevalent then where I lived in the States. As stated, boy racers are annoying, loud and dangerous. There is a VERY VERY serious alcoholism problem in this country, not just drinking but “binge” drinking that you usually do not see until college in the States. Graffiti is EVERYWHERE. The only country I have seen that smokes more than Kiwi’s are the Israeli’s. I see more teenage drop outs and kids doing nothing then I ever saw in the suburb’s of Missouri. Teenagers seem unmotivated & many seem to lack direction.

SCHOOLS-my mother-in-law does International Intakes (in the States) of chilren who are returning to the USA for her school district. She USE to say that the Brit’s were the worst in testing. She says in the last ten years she has seen that the Kiwi’s are BY FAR the least motivated, and most behind of any country she has seen short of refugees. She says that they do not even know how to take the test. Handwriting is awful and most teenagers cannot do multiplication without a calculator or even count change back properly. There is no record of testing, grades, conduct or reports. She has begged me to “homeschool” *** if we are going to remain here (it’s just not in my blood) and tells me that by age 8 *** will be a good 2-3 years behind her American cousins. There is only ONE school (per gender) in the whole of the South Island that offers the IB program which is the ONLY credential from New Zealand that colleges and Universities abroad will recognize. It also costs $18,000 a year to send your child there as it is a private school. It is not uncommon for “professional” Kiwi parents to take their child out of public schools at age 14 and place them there for the IB program if they can afford to do so.

JOBS-there is nothing for me to add to this other then the fact that MANY of the jobs that are advertised have already been promised or given to a family member or friend and they are only advertising because the law says that they have to. There is NO sense of fairness or “the best person for the job”-I feel like I live in one great big social “gool ole boys club”. My husband ROUTINELY sees that the “Asian” nurses often get the hard or difficult assignments at work. There is Anti-Americanism, but it is not so much the fact that we are American as it is the fact we are not Kiwi-born. Most people who dislike Americans tend to avoid us rather then confront us.

CLOTHING-expect to pay Dillard’s prices for Walmart quality. Not much in colour (unless you like pink). But then, EVERYONE is in uniforms, so clothing is not as big a deal over here. An expat friend brought *** a dress with tights and leggings last year with the Walmart price still on it. It has outlasted three other dress bought at the Mall here for TRIPLE the price -and she loves it so much the dress has become a tunic. Walmart quality is better then any quality you will find here other then wool products.

FOOD-from someone who is NOT organic or natural and does not care about such things I find the food to be VERY expensive for very little quality with the exeption of yogurts. Sweet corn was the same price as I paid in the USA last week, only the quality is what the Missouri farmers us to feed to the pigs. Not even yellow with many kernels missing.
I miss the simple naughty things:Cool Whip to mix with JELLO (jelly here gets a film on the top), VELVEETA cheese blocks for yummy nachos, HO HO’s, Ding Dong’s Quicktrip fountain drinks & Prime Rib steaks. I also know that this is just a part of adapting but basic food prices are higher here then in any other country which I have lived. I am totally bored as it is unusual to get new products down here. I did get lucky last week and found Chips Ahoy Chocolate Chip cookies for .99 cents a package. I asked why they were so cheap. “We have to get rid of them. None of the Kiwi’s are buying them, they don’t like new foreign stuff down here.” I can get Reeses Peanut Butter Cups now at the cost of $1 PER CUP and Dorrito’s have just arrived. I really hope that Kiwi’s decide to like them.

KIWI’s-I find most of the adults to be quite friendly and pleasant to your face, but that does not mean you will ever be invited over for a cup of tea. They have their cliques and groups of friends and many of them have been “best mates” since grade school. Being an outgoing person I have found myself to be MUCH MUCH more happy when I decided to stop focusing on the Kiwis and just look around. In the last four years I have developed a “core” set of friends-on is Dutch, one is a Brit, one is from Seattle, one German and we all get on great. WE are family. WE go away for holiday’s together and split the cost. The only problem with this is you will find that every year one or two people come and go, and this can get hard emotionally. That is how it is with expats…very few actually come here to stay even though they may THINK that they are at the time. Once again, it often winds down to a job. Had we not had ***, I’m not sure that we would have financially been able to stay.

RUGBY: Other then half-time on Superbowl Sunday,I ignored football in the States and once in a while would watch baseball. I’m just not a sports type of person. I thought that football fever was bad in the States, but it is NOTHING compared to Rugby down here. It seems to be the ONLY thing that Kiwi’s care about. And it seems to be the ony thing (other than weather) that Kiwi’s can hold a conversation about. I feel like it is contantly being “shoved down my throat” and more then one Kiwi has said that I will never be a “real Kiwi” until I learn to follow and care about Rugby. VERY ANNOYING.

SO IF YOU DISLIKE IT SO MUCH WHY DON’T YOU JUST GO HOME?

1. We cannot afford to. As stated we have blown through ALL of our saving’s are are now living on minimum wage & Work & Income. We feel TOTALLY trapped here. We would have to move in with our in-laws and attempt to find work in the American Recession.

2. We have just applied for citizenship and are saving up money to get our Kiwi passports. It now takes 5 years of living and employment to qualify.

3. *** was Kiwi conceived, Kiwi born and the least we owe her is a Kiwi childhood. I want her to skinny-dip, fly-fish, dirt bike, skateboard, swim in glacier fed lakes, jump from trees, horseback ride, drink from a stream, trust adults, sleep in a tent, ice skate under pine trees, etc. Our goal is that she will have fond memories of her childhood in New Zealand before life got complicated or hard that she can tell to our grandchildren.

YOU ARE BOTH PROFESSIONALS, SO WHAT IS YOUR FUTURE PLANS?

1. My husband is returning to school full-time for the next 2-3 years to have a Kiwi DEGREE and qualification. I have been in contact with Australian Nurses Association who tell me that I will have to take a 6-8 week “refresher” course should I wish to return to and practise nursing in Australia.

2. WE are trying to have another child as I am now 40 and time is running out to give*** a sibling. New Zealand seems to be the only country I have lived in that actually “pays” you to have kids. Why not do it here?

3. Hubby will have to work a year in his field here in New Zealand after “completion” . At that time we will assess whether it will be better to return to the States or simply do what most professional Kiwi’s do and move to Australia. *** will be about 7 at that time. WE will have to determine her personality as well in determining where to go. It would be nice to stay in New Zealand a few more years (for her sake)-but it seems to be professional and financial “suicide”.

4. We will continue to stay close to our “friends”. We all live in Christchurch, some have kids, some don’t. Many of us happen to be Jewish but that only means we do not eat pork around the others (some are vegeatarians) -we go “camping” about three to four times a year together and often have a Saturday meal at my house. We all “care” about issues, but none of us are “fanatical” and most of us are giving this Kiwi thing “a go”-most happen to be Engineers and nurses but that is because of immigration policy’s. So, if you are “lonely”
(but not really) and think you might fit into the “group”-pop me an email and then come around to meet some people and see if our little group works for you. We just had the man from Seattle move to Australia this week, so we are looking for “a new cousin”.

OK SO THE ONE PIECE OF ADVICE THAT I WOULD OFFER TO YOU?
Set a financial limit, (whatever that may be-often it is the price of a ticket home)-come, give it a go. You will always wonder what could have been had you not. Make friends with expats and other’s in this forum first, then worry about befriending Kiwi’s. Let them come to you. Give it a REAL go and then, if you hit the financial number you set, marry a Kiwi, have a kid, or go home. Sounds blunt, but that is our live in a nutshell.

Finances – I echo everyone’s sentiments – Save as much money as you can before you come. Everything’s expensive, with smaller selection and often of lesser quality. Weekend markets are great places to get produce and fruit, sometimes less than half of the supermarket prices. We brought a container, and loaded it w/ food from trader joe’s – only wish we’d brought more. I took someone else’s advice and also packed two year’s worth of clothes for our daughter.

Childcare – Actually cheaper here than in Seattle. And very good! At age three, the gov kicks in a subsidy. (Not clear on all the details, but I believe it’s a relatively new programme and quite generous.)

Sentiment toward Americans/Foreigners – Socially, we’ve felt very welcomed. Within the first few weeks of settling were invited to several neighbor’s homes and social gatherings. It could be the neighborhood, fairly old and v.international w/ many retired diplomats. Everyone at the park we frequent chats with each other.

Hope this was helpful. As our time progresses, I’m sure our experience will evolve.

361 thoughts on “We Chose To Go With New Zealand. BIG MISTAKE”

  1. Plain Jane,

    I am so sorry to hear your child was injured in such pointless way. Children should never be in a situation like that! The US is a large place and we have many infrastructure issues. I have never seen a school in such disrepair here, though. The building codes are so strict regarding materials and construction methods, and engineers must approve drawings to 3 times a factor of safety. To constantly here about leaky cold houses over there just boggles my mind. Insulation in general is one of the cheapest materials we have. Why any sensible person charged with building a structure wouldnt stuff the walls and ceiling cavities full of it is insane. Especially, at the prices they charge for those damn houses there. I only hope you have found safe haven somewhere sensible where you dont have to be concerned a beam or door will fall off and kill or mame someone, especially a child. God Bless!!

      • I am astounded. The problems you describe Are so unbelievably easy to remedy at the time of construction if you dont walk around with your head in your arse. Yet the outcomes of such negligence cause the proems you describe. I wish i could just build you a proper house that is safe and warm. My prayers go out to you. Noone should have To put up with that. So many stories i have read on this blog echo your plight. It is absolutely ridiculous to think this still goes on in this day and age. Please know you and the many folks who are dealing with this are being Prayed over. So happy your son is in a better place as this must give you some solace.

        Warmest regards,

        Ben

        Sent from my iPhone

        >

    • The counter-intuitive logic of “increased circulation” [to combat TB], fight off moisture…
      It boggles the mind, with the cost of energy and the restrictions on wood stoves, why insulation is not more widely used and accepted.

    • In other words you know him well enough to know his history and his motives, but not what he said? o_O

      Trolls can be real people and they can be migrants, they take many different forms and have varying agendas.

      …a crafty troll will present just enough evidence of being credible that to block them would seem like a dangerous step towards infringing free speech. Such trolls will even use this defence, and accuse those who block them of cowardice, censorship, and losing the argument. The average individual is left stuck between doing the morally upstanding thing (upholding free speech, engaging in a debate) and the wise thing (protecting their own peace of mind)

      or the peace of mind of their readers.

      Read the comments guidelines. They’re quite straightforward. While you’re about it read the reason for this site – Welcome

      Don’t like that? find the zero tolerance policy not to your taste? Don’t comment. Move on. Simple.

      Bye.

    • So, until now you didn’t realize trolls were real people who post online? What did you think they were – computer generated?!!!

  5. I like to let the people who comment on this page know that a few years ago a local Hong Kong newspaper did a survey on New Zealand expats who live in Hong Kong or Mainland China and the survey results were surprising, the people surveyed said that they would never return to New Zealand when they retire

  6. Good article. I’m glad me and my husband were not the only family that had a bad NZ experience. It was tricky for us as I’m from Singapore and my husband is from the UK and we met and got married in NZ. Although we had our fun and loving memories of NZ, we encountered very bad ones too. The bad housing situation like houses over there were not insulated was so true as we had a similar problem too. Our heating bills went up to nzd800 for a month! We also had that same experience that NZ was trapping us in as we did not have enough finances to leave. But once we had the chance of leaving, we gladly did it even when it was so very difficult. We had to work in Australia for a length of time just to be able to save up enough money to resettle in our native countries, Singapore and finally UK which was not easy either. Even with good paying jobs, we were left out of pocket because of the high living standards. Kiwi wages were and are still too low for Kiwi living stardard. New Zealand is a very beautiful place to visit but too costly to live in. As for us, my husband ended up working all over the world earning the British Pound, we come back to the UK or fly away to any country every 6 to 8 weeks and not have hassle to resettle anywhere anymore. We glad we came to NZ but we are happier that we left.

    • congrats on doing so ! we are still fighting to get back. and hope we will succeed. Yeah travelling to other countries often is also what we miss

  7. I’d like to add a “tale” if ok, I’m not a migrant or resident but spent 2 months there looking at what life would be like for me.

    So it started in 2011 and I was looking at possibly working abroad and had looked into Canada, I have worked in Holland and Germany, but I have friends in New Zealand.

    By trade I am a Plasterer, I run a small plastering and rendering business in the UK which is also involved with insulation, I do ok in the UK, but did get caught up with the doom and gloomers in the UK who seem to get caught up in the grass is greener syndrome, thinking that everywhere is better than the UK.

    Anyway, I decided to visit New Zealand to have a look, suss out the work situation, housing situation and generally take a look at what life would be like there, I mean New Zealand is portrayed as heaven in the UK, one of my employees even left his job because he thought I wouldn’t be back.

    I had been researching on various forums regarding construction, wages, standard of life and got caught up with the “happy clappers” and use to dismiss the negative things I saw, someone would post 1 negative comment and it would be swamped by 10 positive responses, usually from long standing members on such sites, but again, I glossed over this.

    So I booked to go and arranged to stay in Hamilton with a family I knew, flights cost me £800 approx and I was taking about £3500 or nzd$7000, plenty enough to see me through 2 months, I was even getting set up with construction site visits, meetings with small outfits and meetings with various construction guys.

    All good, until I got there, upon arrival the first thing I was asked for travelling back from the airport (Auckland) to Hamilton was money, the family I was staying with knew how much I had as I had asked about how much I needed, anyway being polite, I gave them some money about $600 to cover my stay, my understanding is I would be travelling about and visiting other friends in Auckland.

    The first few weeks were spent sight seeing, visiting tourist attractions near by money was pouring out of my hands, being generous I was paying for some of the family I was staying with as a way of showing my appreciation, however, takeaways seemed to be the norm and we probably had 1/2 home cooked meals a week.

    Groceries in stores such as countdown were massively expensive, I’m mean ridiculous, a bottle of wine and some sundries were coming in at like $40 +

    The work situation I looked into, I visited a few sites and spoke to a few guys and was actually offered jobs, I was 25 and had a skilled trade, so had opportunities, however the wages were not great $27-$30 NZD per hour in a country that is very expensive, I earn more than that in the UK.

    The Christchurch re-build was a joke, an absolute shambles, speaking to various site managers the Chinese were the only guys earning money, by working 12-14 hours days producing good quality work but living in shared accommodation and basically living poorly earning money to send home, something I wasn’t prepared or expecting to do, I was expecting long term work, decent pay and a decent standard of living……. Where was it ?

    One site manager actually discouraged me and told me how he was only there to obtain a visa so he could jump the ditch and move to Aus, his words were “you’ll struggle like hell” he couldn’t fault the Chinese either, they were working hard and fast towards a bonus for said site manager, other sites were the same, hamilton hospital, sites in Tauranga, Maori gib stoppers, Chinese gib stoppers, either earning little or working very long hard days to earn a decent crust.

    Not like the adverts you see in Britain.

    I also looked into the private housing as regards to buying, and being into construction and insulation myself I know the state of the housing was disgusting, it was summer when I was there but there was no or very little insulation, timber framed housing cladded with weatherboard and plastic cladding, these houses are not built to last, the nights were very cold.

    NZ is very behind on building materials, things are simply not available in New Zealand that are readily available in Europe, what materials and tools that are on offer are massively overpriced.

    The houses are simply massively inflated, they are of poor quality and certainly do not justify the price they demand $200,000 for a rotting timber home in a rough area, no matter how big the garden is or what you can see from said garden, the houses are wooden tents/sheds even.

    Condensation – the meeting of cold air and warm air resulting in water, why the hell do you not have double glazing, why the hell do you not insulate your houses – the result is water inside your home, water rots wood, it rots plasterboard.

    I’ll move onto attitude – the attitude when criticised is dramatic, wow, see the change on their faces when you dare criticise anything, I’d made my mind up about moving after about a month, it was a no, how my life was made hell for the remaining time, racism towards the maori is common, as such is it towards Indians and Chinese.

    Expats are by far the worse, they hate Britain and speak very lowly of the place, I got sick to the back teeth of hearing how bad Britain was, how it was being taken over, how it was a sinking ship, give it a rest, the UK has its problems but it is a great place to live, everything in life is at your fingertips education, careers, opportunities.

    I got the impression expats where hoping the UK had problems to justify their own choice to move to New Zealand.

    Kiwi-poms get no greater pleasure in life than to tell people in the UK how great there life is, when really it is sugarcoated bullshit.

    The isolation, that word will stick with me for life, I have never felt isolation like I did in New Zealand, not loneliness, but just a complete lack of anything, nothingness. What kept me going was having access to the Internet, I felt I was looking elsewhere to get my sports fix regarding football, F1 and other sports, other than rugby and cricket, there’s no mainstream sports access.

    Tourists are squeezed for every last penny, I ended up broke with a few days remaining and was made to feel very uncomfortable, I’d given my host family who were friends near $1000, spent copious amounts on take-outs (I have 1/2 a week in UK, not 4/5) spent hundreds on overpriced tourist attractions and my fair share in fuel (the last I have no qualms about as I did see some great sights)

    But I was left broke, I couldn’t even afford a beer in the airport.

    I did see my friend who lives in Auckland, who I hadn’t seen since I was a child, when I met him he was very against me moving to NZ, at the time I couldn’t understand why, but it soon clicked when I got back, we spoke and he told me he regretted ever moving there, he owned his house and had a job, but like me, felt the isolation, the squeeze and the endless battles with your own sanity, the reason he cannot leave is, he is married to a kiwi with 2 children, she will never leave, kiwi women are very controlling and manipulative and most are overweight pigs, in other words he is stuck.

    I left New Zealand scratching my head, questioning my own attitude, I couldn’t understand why I didn’t fit into this great, green heaven id read so much about, I was made to feel like I had a problem.

    New Zealand does that to you, the people, the place, it isolates you unless your willing to paint a fake smile on your face, appreciate the view and say thank you while zipping your trousers up.

    I don’t regret going, it has made me appreciate what the UK has given me and continues to offer.

    Luckily for me I was strong enough and wise enough to see through the bullshit, I spent my time in New Zealand living as a resident, living in a home, looking at jobs, looking at housing and mixing with residents on a day to day basis.

    My strong advice to anyone is visit first and the if you like it rent, do not sell everything you have (a house) on a whim and move because getting out is one long hard slow process.

    I now live in UK, own my own home and run a successful business, something I don’t think I could have done in New Zealand, good luck people.

    • Having read this I have to agree
      Only live in NZ if you can afford to retire
      Well done for finding out before it’s too late

      • I can afford to retire in NZ, if I sell my house here in Oz. As a matter of fact I have wanted to move over there since I first visited in 1976. I feel it is my spiritual home, the place I am most happy. I have studied IN DEPTH the pros and cons of living there, and I still ache to do it. I am 61 years old and my working days are over. The places I would want to settle over there are small communities (there are four in particular I would choose from) which have all the facilities I would need or want (access to health care, a senior citizens group, close proximity to hot spring bathing, reasonable access to shops and public transport, and a seemingly close-knit, welcoming community). I am well aware of the cultural problems, gangs, drunkenness etc but my quiet lifestyle would not, I hope, expose me to the negative side of living in NZ. However our wise Australian Prime Minister has destroyed my dream of the last 40 years by announcing that Australians who receive a pension can now not spend more than four weeks (in any year) living outside of Australia or they will lose their pension. I worked out that if I sold up everything except personal effects here I could afford to buy a house in an area I want, and afford to buy a car and furnish my house with second-hand furniture. I could easily have existed on my Australian pension. My demands and requirements are not huge, just a quiet life and a hot swim nearly every day, fresh air, hopefully a few friends. When I spent time in NZ last year and in 2013 I shopped wisely and I honestly did not find that the cost of groceries was much different to what I pay here.

        I realise I am in a completely different position from the young ones on here who have careers and want to work, or have children (I only have my 3 dogs). But it really hurts to want to go so badly and now not be able to. If anyone can offer any advice I would like to hear it!

        • Jane, I suspect that you may be entitled to a pension from New Zealand – have a little research into that. As an Australian you are automatically entitled to Permanent Residency as soon as you step foot in New Zealand, in which case, I would think you would be eligible for pension – but I could be wrong. With that said, I don’t think it would very difficult for an Australian to become a NZ citizen (although it’s much more difficult for a New Zealander to become an Aussie citizen), in which case I think you would be eligible for a pension in New Zealand (just not your Australian one). Hope that helps.

          • Yes you could be wrong. Jane West please seek accurate information and guidance from someone who knows what they’re talking about before making the move.

            Please be aware the NZ pension payments are not usually backdated. If you make a mistake and don’t claim your proper entitlements you will lose out

      • Hi uk builder, you are totally right about NZ. If you are from UK do not move to NZ from UK , as you will eventually become very bored with the isolation, narrow mindedness of people here, their bigoted and xenophobic views of other countries and people. Plus their extreme nationalism and racism. The pretty countryside is not a good reason to leave leave your home country and live in second rate NZ.

        • Rich, although I respect what you say I cannot agree with you entirely. New Zealand is NOT second rate. After living here for 10 years, I can say with authority it is distinctly third rate.

    • UK Biker: “kiwi woman are controlling and manipulative and most are fat pigs”-that’s a bit harsh isn’t it? IF they are (en masse) controlling at times it could be because: 1)this is effectively a misogynistic police state (as a woman I feel increasingly threatened when in public or when dealing with the government) and 2) to be fair a lot of men here have severe substance abuse/alcohol problems. Both of these issues make woman feel unsafe or at the very least anxious and anxious people will grasp at any sense of control they can get. 3) few kiwi men stand up for or protect women from anything let alone there own alcoholism. I have more than once had to break up domestic abuse that has occurred right in front of men that ignored it and continued to drink and do nothing. NZ society (women as much as men) fairly regularly treat and talk about women terribly. We have one of the highest sexual violence rates in the world. I think you lack insight into what it’s like to be a woman in NZ-which makes sense given your a brit and a male one at that. So maybe rather than adding to the culture of violence and abuse with your words above you could take a step back and recognise that it is entirely possible that where NZ woman are concerned you don’t know the first thing about what you are talking about.

  8. The suburb I live in the Hutt which is Epuni is quite a problematic area, when it comes to weekends, the people get rowdy and drunk and sometimes they will chuck bottles over the fence, I don’t think New Zealand is going to improve, it’s going to get so downhill where I have decided that it’s better to leave once I get my Bachelor in Information Tech

  9. As a natural born Kiwi, I totally understand this article. I am in my 50’s and over the generations I have seen this country go down hill. Especially since the late 1980’s. I have seen and experienced the erosion of basic freedoms and civil liberties by nanny-state do-gooder policies, come Police state. I have seen people and families destroyed by lack of jobs in this country, and most jobs that are available are low paid and often casualised. Which means that week by week you don’t know if you have work and what the hours may be. Say goodbye to sick pay, paid holidays and even basic human dignity without the risk of being treated like a disposal resource by your boss. The divide between rich and poor is extreme and is getting worse. Many workers in Aotearoa (New Zealand) find it difficult to get by, there is little enjoyment in life for many people in this country. WINZ is of little help, there are many more unemployed in this country than the official figures because if your partner has a job, you yourself will not be entitled to even register as a job-seeker, let alone receive any assistance. Though if you are working you will be taxed individually. This country used to be primarily socialist, the divide between rich and poor was not overly great. And most all of us could enjoy a reasonable standard of life. And any one who wanted to work, could find a job with a reasonable wage. But not any more. The Middle Class has become selfish and looks to protect itself rather than the traditional
    social concern it once had. If you are poor and out of work it is your fault. Even if their are less working class jobs available than one can count on one hand in provisional New Zealand. Stupid short sighted corporate control politics by the new financial right has destroyed this country. Idiot ideas like outsourcing for Corp A means that there is less jobs for NZ, less taxation revenue, less spending cash-flow and a greater burden on unemployment and our prisons (with all those financial and social costs) . The Corporate control politics of the new financial right continues to dumb down education, try to make prisons and hospitals and other things profit driven. Instead of loss recovery social services.
    Because if social things like hospitals make a profit, they can be sold off by the politicians – most of whom are rich and will further benefit from such sales. Just like there is no Constitution like in the USA, there is no democracy in NZ. The so-called House of Representatives only represents themselves, not the people. The system in NZ is facade where no matter who you vote for, will ignore the people. In a country where the majority is snubbed and even referendums are not binding on those who hold office. If I could get a Green Card and more to California or Texas or something I would. I think you were crazy to move to this sinking country.

    • Lenny,

      “Especially since the late 1980’s”.

      NZ’s economic and social decline from a very high-income ‘Model Nation’ seems to have occurred after the UK’s entry into the EEC and abandonment of Commonwealth trading preferences, do you agree? Neoliberal policies probably made the situation worse, but does any NZ government have much room to manoeuvre? The future doesn’t look promising.

    • @Lenny
      Well I just stumbled onto this thread. After considering a move to NZ a year ago, I was lulled into complacency and pseudo-euphoria reading all the blogs from expats and natives alike singing the praises of an idyllic land of natural beauty and freedom. But I needed a dissenting view and wanted to make an informed decision which led me here. Lenny, it just so happens i live in Texas. I was born here. By and large it is a good and stable place to live (2008 great recession notwithstanding) Your characterization of a decline in lifestyle quality and opportunity to succeed is true in America as well. While i don’t share your preference for a socialist government, I have much disdain for the decline of our own middle class here in the states and the massive income inequality brought on my billionaires and multi-millionaires who control the country from government, media, and business perspectives. I have been taken aback by the characterization of Kiwi’s as bitter, thieving, drunken people (from many other posts) who exploit children and let them run about like banshees to be raped by roastbuster, etc. I am certain this is a select few individuals or groups and does not represent the majority of the population, but i have no real data to support that. I can only draw from personal experience from a trip to NZ when i was a youngster of about 7 years where we stayed with a lovely couple who we had only met at a roadside produce stand. They invited us to their home, fed and put us up for the night. I only recall them to be generous and kind. But this was in
      1973 so the world is a far different place now.
      At issue for me is the emails i get from “Living in New Zealand” who wish to make everything easy and
      paint the rosy picture. I researched it and it would literally cost me a small fortune if i was to attempt a move and would need a guarantee of employment. Plus the requirements are always based on a college degree.
      Like some bloke working in Christchurch swinging a hammer and toting lumber around is a degreed professional? Riiiiiiiiight!! But, sure, if you want to work as a carpenter you have to have a degree. I am a 30 year construction professional and project manager without a degree. I guess its different over there.
      So, i have decided to be thankful i have what i have here in Texas, and want all to know, we don’t all have oil wells in our back yards, or cattle grazing in the front 40 acres or whatever stereotype one may have about Texans. I live in the Texas Hill country, and it is really nice. I have a job, although i make less now than i did 15 years ago. BTW, California is beautiful, but the most screwed up place to live. You would need a job that pays roughly 200K per year to afford a 1 bedroom shit hole apt and live in a crappy area. But that’s just in an area that would actually support a $200k per year job. To live south, La Jolla, San Diego,
      Etc would take serious cash. I appreciate the thoughts here even though many are negative. It is sobering to read both sides and assume reality is somewhere in the middle.

      • Your “school of hard knocks” degree would be totally useless, even thought you may be way more “qualified” than others that have their “peice of paper” hanging on the wall. There is a huge importance placed on “qualifications” that can be verified by certificate as opposed to being able to do the job. Certificates are required for almost everything, and you’ll find it hard to get work unless you toe the line.
        It WILL cost you a small fortune, and what happens to many, you’ll lose the financial mobility to move back because you’ll not be able to make/save enough.
        You’d count yourself lucky if you could get a job swinging and toting.
        PS, if I were to move back to the US, Texas would be high on the list.

        • @Carpentaro,

          Thanks for your reply. I understand the merit of having a degree as a means of continuity in the workforce.
          everyone should have quantifiable skills for what they are doing. Especially if you are traveling across the world to demonstrate said skills for an employer. A degree is highly preferred for most white collar jobs here and certifications for blue collar workers in the northern (northeast) states are typical for Union workers.
          plumbing, electrical, HVAC, Pest Control contractors must be licensed. But a carpenter can just roll up on a job, walk the walk and get hired unless you are just a piece of shit or a drunk. I guess the biggest surprise to me was the whole Christchurch rebuild. Some “happy clappers” were trying to convince me the work was plentiful and i could make a good living. Others were realists and told me that most of the work there had already been done, even years ago. So, without boots on the ground its hard to figure out the truth. I certainly wouldn’t consider moving for a life described by one guy on here where he said some Asians were living in a one room flat packed like sardines and working themselves to death. We have a huge Mexican population here in the states and in Texas that come here illegally and live the same way. I guess its better than where they came from so i cant blame them for trying to make a better life. Immigration is a sticky
          problem here cuz everyone wants to get here somehow. You would probably do well here if you ever made it over. Texas is a very good place to live. We don’t have a state income tax, housing is pretty affordable and the winters are mild. There are places to avoid tho, just like everywhere. I would stay away from Austin.
          I lived there in the late 80’s and it was wonderful. Hip, great music scene, and just a cool place to live, but now it has grown so large and housing is nonexistent and way overpriced if you want to live even remotely
          close to the city. It still has a great music scene and lots to do, and festivals, good food, etc. Just have to be
          well off to afford it and the traffic is the worst of any Texas city. Damn hippies dont want to cut a tree down to add infrastructure. Anyway, construction is booming pretty much everywhere here so there IS work.
          Best of luck to you.

          • Most of the trades you mention [elec. plumbing] have been regulated, already, here. Construction, carpenters have usually been “market” regulated. There is a process in place now where carpenters are being licenced “LBP” [licenced building practitioners] so as to relieve the local authorities of the responsabilities of “signing off” work. Problem is, cost of licencing is quite high and the responsability falls on the builder.
            There is a trend of relying on the “certificate” as a proof of competency, and that is not always the case.

          • Oh, and forgot to mention that, even though you come from a much more mature and developed industrial environment [with advanced techniques, tools, and equipment], nothing you bring to the table will be accepted as it will be deemed “WWINZ” [won’t work in NZ].
            The building techniques here are very antiquated and companies/workers under tooled [tools are few and very expensive which is why so few]. Materials are also very expensive and of less quality. Case in point; I remember [years ago] trying to find hemp to pack a cast iron DWV line that I was going to tap into and reuse. Looked all over and finally found some at an oldtimey hardware store. Hemp is still used here, all the time. Other techniques such as not using copper pipe fittings [a single coupler for 1/2″ [15mm] is $8], no double glazed windows, no screens on doors or windows [although there are way more flies in town here than on a farm in the US, the “Kiwi wave” is to shoo away the flies], ag panel sheet steel roofs on houses [usually found on out buildings and barns] is the norm, vinyl skinned masonite sheets [seratone] for shower lining. The list goes on and on. You feel like you stepped into a time warp, going back quite a few decades. So, forget all your high speed streamlined building techniques, they still cut boards with hand saws here, on a regular basis, and are proud of it. When working on a project back in the States, you’d be lucky to find 1 handsaw out of maybe 20 guys on site. Here you are expected to have and use one when a power saw is not at hand, which is often [because tools are few and expensive, remember].
            When I first got here, and went to work for a building company, I had more circular saws than the company had, that was three [2 Skil 77s and a Skil left hand blade 5 1/2″ sidewinder trim/panel saw]. They’d never seen a worm drive saw. Nobody makes a 220v wormdrive, I’ve looked.
            I’ll bet Texas is looking better and better.

          • @Carpentaro: Thanks for sharing your insights into the building industry. I do not have any type of building background aside from working as a teenager helping my dad to renovate houses when I lived in the US. The absence of standards and the lack of building quality is appalling, yet the Kiwis go on ad infinitum about how practical and capable they are. Capability is the ability to take a problem and devise a solution, rather than ignoring the problem or pretending that it does not exist.
            Here in Switzerland I often find myself astounded at the efficiency in the trades. Our refrigerator required replacing and the fellow that came had a little machine that held the refrigerator whilst it climbed up the stairs. The machine could also descend stairs with the refrigerator. I would imagine the Kiwis would take a refrigerator up four flights of stairs by bringing four of their mates to do the job that a single person can do here. They would bang the thing up the stairs instead of just having just one person quietly use a machine.
            I saw Kiwi construction first hand in Wellington. Essentially, it consisted of one guy going to a building site and taking forever to construct a single cheap house. In contrast, I saw a group of people replacing the roof on an old apartment complex here. They had a crew of people working quickly and efficiently. The guy who drove the truck that gathered the old tiles would come by exactly every ten minutes and then the roofers would toss down the old tiles. It was a pleasure to watch things run like clockwork. The efficiency and productivity here are the reasons the salaries are so high here whereas the inefficiency, poor planning, and waste are why Kiwi salaries are in the toilet and why prices are so high.

          • Carpentaro,

            Where are you from originally? You obviously Are a fish out of water. The conditions you describe would drive me batty. I am a timber framer now but built conventional framed houses here in Texas for 25 years. Nearly everyone in carpentry trades learns by apprenticeship. As you grow in knowledge and experience one is encouraged to seek a variety of methods thru books and others work. Makes you well rounded. The overriding vibe i get from your description of Life there is people are not motivated to learn, Improve, or want better methods. My mother Was in guatemala as Peace Corp volunteer and described a similar apathy and helplessness of the people to stagnate, and resist change. I too have a complete storehouse of tools for everything i do. Collected over decades i cant imagine calling myself a carpenter and trying to make a living In the competative world building here. Although, most clients i work for hire me for My skill and end product rather than how cheaply i can deliver. As you are well aware, You get what you pay for. You mentioned your Saws but i bet there is quite a problem with keeping a good supply of saw blades on hand From the supply issues and cost. God bless my friend.

            Sent from my iPhone

            >

      • @ Benji – there are a LOT of very embittered people contributing to this site – which is understandable as it is designed that way – to provide an alternative view. Practical “degrees” are valued in NZ – probably more than “pieces of paper”.

        Honesty. Yes, commercial ethics have suffered significantly – we have perhaps the highest level of incidents of “accountants” involved in the senior leadership of our companies – far, far more so that in the US. The concern with the quarterly “bottom-line” is pervasive and deadening. Debt payments are often late and recovery of debt through court-orders (when necessary), both expensive and , basically, unenforceable. ……… Now that apart (and not unimportant of course), I live in a rural city (25,000), and rarely lock my vehicle. In 25 years I have had it rifled once – probably by a young person as only the spare cash (meter money) and a transistor were taken – not my extensive and expensive toolkit. In contrary opinion to sundry posters here – I find ordinary people just as honest as in most countries – and of course, much better than some.

        Drinking. It is pervasive here … just as pervasive as in the UK – though perhaps less so as few drink a couple of pints (beer) at lunchtime and return to work. However, there is a culture of providing alcohol on every social occasion. The excessive drinking (to the point of drunkenness) tends to be a social-level factor rather than everywhere. I have an extensive clientele and many friends – two pints has been the normal limit for many years (prior to recent 0.05 legislation). Few drunkards there.

        Violence is very well publicised here – but is generally confined to certain districts. No Columbines though, no Sandy Hooks …. I guess you have to make a balance.

        Hardware and durable housewares are expensive – and only now (after six years of the GFC), becoming truly competitive. Food on the other hand is competitive – quality for quality (sausages apart – dreadful, English style not Continental style). To make this comparative I like to keep the cost in relation to the median wage (here $NZ42,000 p.a. = $21.00 an hour …. the US is $US 39,000 nationally = $18.75 an hour …. US Dept of Stats figures, 2013).Rump steak is currently $22.00 a kilogram ($US7.30 a pound) and this compares favourably with the SAME QUALITY level of meat in California (round). In other words about 20 minutes work in both countries for a pound.Yes, you can buy is cheaper in Cal. though it is often thinner cut. On special, last week, that rump was $16.00 a kg (same quality level), say $5.30 a pound, at my local supermarket. The minimum wage is $14.25 + 8% loading for holiday pay = $15.39. Many employers of casual labour don’t comply with the law and pay the holiday pay loading. The government department charged with policing this is now grossly understaffed and is rarely able to enforce the law. Unlike the US, less than 7% of the working population is government employed.

        I have worked in five countries – NZ, Aus, California, UK and Chile – at various times and, in Aus, at the moment of a major down-turn. Chile doesn’t count as I am highly qualified in my field and that was a consultancy level. However, in all the others that did not apply and I took basic (minimum wage), jobs in order to survive. Trying to live on the minimum wage in any of those countries is definitely not easy. The great differences between NZ and Aus/UK/California were that employers did not fear differences. This enabled me to climb the ladder quite quickly (I believe the UK has now become introverted about “alien” employees) as my NZ background (and personal abilities), made me flexible – or should I say, by not being specialist I had a broader outlook to new ideas and things.

        NZ is not easy for urban Europeans (and UK citizens if they don’t think they are European) and for US/Canadians – simply that even in major cities so many of the “cultural” things so readily available there are not available here – and the myriad levels of quality and choice likewise.

        I hope that this is of interest to you and goes to balance the rather extreme negativism of various other posters. It is not Utopia – it is no worse, nor no better than any of those other countries I lived in.

      • @Lenny, I just moved here two months ago. Most all the negative comments I’ve read in these threads are true from my experience. You won’t find any middle ground. It’s embarrassing that I’ve left a great income and life in the US for this Kiwi lifestyle. Fortunately I have the means to get out but I really feel others who can’t just yet. Don’t come here unless your financially set for life or have a job lined up with a solid contract. If you need to discover what’s so great about the US then come to NZ. It’s very frustrating here on every level.

  10. I have a Migrant’s Tail that I would like to post, if possible. I have been coming to this site for a while now, and the comments I have seen have helped. Thank you for setting up this website.

    UK Scientist’s 12-year Grapple with New Zealand

    The positives: I like the outdoor opportunities in New Zealand and the country itself. I love the situation of our house in terms of the space we have, and we are happy with our lives. We got lucky with the quality of our home (although we are technically minded, and were very aware of the pitfalls).

    We are two self-sufficient people in our early 40s with a healthy lifestyle, we communicate easily with the outside world via the internet, and we download our video and written entertainment from international sources. We buy online from both local and overseas stores. Amazon and eBay save us thousands of NZD every year vs. the locally-sold, brand-named stuff.

    We live in one of the big city regions.

    Sounds good? Mostly positive, I agree. However, my personal opinion in regard to New Zealand society is overwhelmingly negative, and a real bummer.

    I know there are a large number of exceptional, socially responsible and intelligent people living in New Zealand. But this fraction of society is small relative to the other countries where we have lived (UK and Australia).

    I am a PhD educated scientist with overseas research fellowship and commercial consultancy-level experience here in New Zealand. My work used to cover research-based chemistry. I have authored well over thirty original research papers in most of the journals of my field.

    Since moving to NZ, all of that has become meaningless.

    The New Zealand economy is mostly based on the export of basic commodities and tourism-based dollars. There is no real work for research chemists unless you can find low paid work for the main production industries, i.e., the polluters: New Zealand agriculture, oil and gas. These industries usually only want qualified engineers, and not scientists, as there is very little active research happening in New Zealand itself. The chemistry research sector is tiny and is not adequately funded, or indeed, even promoted by the government. The current government is focused on downsizing almost everything and appears to be selling off or spitting up the less ‘productive’ crown research institutions. It is now forcing research work to be derived from commercial funding sources that have fixed commercial outcomes in mind. On a per-capita basis, government funding for general research is simply miniscule relative to Australia, or the UK, as examples.

    Unfortunately, a slow degradation of my career, which was hardly noticeable at first, has occurred. I started as a senior scientist at a non-governmental organisation, and I simply did not like it. The research funding was limited and the management was very poor at that time. I have had a consultancy-style job since then in New Zealand, but it was all about low quality commercial output and back stabbing your colleagues for pennies. I hated it, and got out.

    So, I was jumping around for a while trying to change direction, and this always looks bad on your resume. The economic downturn arrived and the relatively well-paid science jobs simply disappeared. At this time I was in the middle of a ‘career-changing’, non-chemistry-based masters degree at the time. This was bad planning, or I was simply unlucky.

    The only job I can get here in New Zealand now is as a semi-skilled worker. I have been doing this for three years now. Unfortunately, once you take a job like this, you are screwed, because any employer will wonder why the hell you did it. I did it out of desperation.

    My employer told me that this job does not require a degree, although I am actually managing the supply of technical materials to three departments for NZD110 take-home per working day. There is now only one other person here who has the skills to repeat my work. My wages have not increased with the ongoing rate of inflation.

    I am lowest paid employee in the entire division by at least NZD10k per annum (I know because people complain to me about their rate of pay). Everyone in the Science Division is a multi-generation New Zealander (with the exception of that first-generation New Zealander who can do chemistry at my skill level). We have had many scientists who have simply arrived, stayed for a year or so, and left the country (typically European).

    Regardless, I consider myself lucky to have this job. There are no other opportunities close to our location (I am constantly looking – every day). But even then, it would be a big risk because of our mortgage to leave this current position (which is stable).

    The worst part of the whole debacle is that I now commute by road for 1.5-2.0 hours every working day. There is no direct public transport route from our suburban home to this urban-commercial location.

    Why has this commute had such a negative impact on me? The behaviour of the average New Zealander on the road is simply awful. On a per capita, per hundred car basis, when we stepped off that plane in 2003, we became twice as likely to die in a motor vehicle accident as when living back in the UK [OECD stats]

    Usually, the true attitudes of individuals towards society are not actually expressed as behaviours because social norms, eye contact, etc., will moderate embarrassing, self-centred behaviour. When placed within a motor vehicle, however, these barriers are reduced and the behaviours of individuals tend to more accurately reflect their internal attitudes towards the people around them.

    After 12 years of driving on the roads in New Zealand I truly believe that most (not all) New Zealanders hate each other. If you are not within their immediate circle, i.e., in their car, you are hated. This type of New Zealander doesn’t just hate people from the USA, they hate everyone.

    These people appear to take out their daily frustrations by making others feel physically endangered. Tailgating is one example that appears to be an accepted, effectively legal and un-moderated component of everyday life in New Zealand. During my commute, at least 30-40% of drivers are doing it at any given time. I have even seen the police doing it.

    Can anyone argue with me, in a sensible and logical manner, that aggressive behaviour like this does not stem from people who are either (1) socially retarded, or (2) educationally retarded in regard to hazards and risk? Could it be that they even (3) intellectually retarded in regard to visualising the common future outcomes of poor risk management?

    Seriously, such behaviours in New Zealand appear to result from an undercurrent of widespread anger at the situation of the average New Zealander, hatred of other New Zealanders who may possibly have it better, and an almost universal sense of low self-esteem. I can sense this when I meet this kind of unpleasant person at work.

    So, why am I still here mixing it up with these people?

    Firstly, it is better than China, North Korea, South Africa, Mexico, et al. Congratulations.

    Secondly, we tend not to mix with New Zealanders that much at a social level anyhow. That is simply just the way it has turned out. My wife has some more mature (all 50s+) non-first generation New Zealander friends both from work and her technical social club; I have some friends too, but they are all first-generation New Zealanders like us.

    We don’t have kids.

    Most importantly, my wife is an engineer, and engineers are needed here. Our combined wage allows us to live quite comfortably. She also loves her job and gets on well with most of the engineers she works with (both imported and local).

    It has not always been so easy in New Zealand for her. My wife is Asian (Aussie educated). We first arrived in NZ years before the downturn hit, and New Zealand was absolutely crying out for engineers. Regardless, she had to work in an honest-the-god, New Zealander-owned sushi shop chain on the minimum wage for six months just to keep busy… I’m not saying they are racist, but..?

    I am no longer interested in doing science for rubbish wages. The plan is to finish off this mortgage, and take things easy. If my wife’s job bites the dust at some point (and I hope not), we will leave immediately for better job opportunities.

    My advice:
    (1) Make sure you keep some money to get out,

    (2) Watch out for the alcohol abusers and the cannabis/meth users on the road (highest cannabis/meth rates in the OECD). They are the worst,

    (3) Think twice if you are an artist or musician of some kind, if you have a sensitive nature, or if you need meaningful social contact,

    (4) Be internet savvy for entertainment and contact with the world,

    (5) If you stay for five years, but don’t live overseas for more that 6 months during this period, you are eligible for citizenship. Currently, this is your ticket to jobs in Australia,

    (6) If you are serious about staying, don’t buy either an old house (unhealthy) or a new house (poor quality). Avoid New Zealand’s ‘trades people’. Buy some land, keep it simple and, if you have the capacity, build the house yourself.

  13. I am just curious if you will share which agencies troll your website the most. I suspect that the New Zealand government monitors this website and is responsible for some of the trolling. The NZ government agency that I once worked for had a “Ministry of Propaganda”, which spent time trying to manipulate online discourse.

    This might be a story worth sharing about the appalling childcare in Retardicon 6.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/64046095/My-4-year-old-got-drunk-at-preschool-Mum

  14. It should not surprise us that someone from Chapman Tripp is trolling given their cosy relationship with the Kiwi government, especially with EQC.

    • We get a lot of hits from IP addresses in the public sector and ancillary organizations. It’s quite informative to see what they get up to on Wikipedia.

  15. “Trust adults” in NZ? More than in the States? No. Don’t let her trust adults in NZ. Trust ME – we got that t-shirt and I knew a few others who did, too.

  16. Hi i am a civil engineer with 10 years experience in india..Cant even find a single job since i came here..Lost all money,.,,currenlty student….its 2014 and lot of work in christchurch.Construction companies here are too scared to hire someone. I have been calling, walk in, distributing cvs, applying thousand jobs online..no replies. Its the worst decision of my life to come here…spend 20 lacs in education to hear nothing from employers.

  17. I find your comments very interesting. One thing is that I found your kiwi experience very similar to my US experience. The other thing is you seem to contridect yourself many times..Also you condemn our education. I found the average American to be pretty thick. Your grammar reflects this. Sorry, but these were the thoughts thats crossed my mind during a very interesting read. I never realised how much us Kiwis were neglecting our overseas residents. Will certainly make more effort. Thank you. Ned the Kiwi

    • Ned’s Kiwi education is evident in his spelling errors.

      @Ned – what experiences in the US did you find similar to those described here?

    • @Ned

      Thanks for leaving the USA and returning to New Zealand; your departure helped improve the aggregate IQ in the US a bit. Would you mind encouraging other kiwis who are like yourself to leave America as well?

      By the way, your writing skills are nothing to brag about, so you appear to be “contridect”-ing what you are trying to say.

      • Calvin, do you mean, ‘improve the average IQ’? Ned’s departure could have conceivably, reduced the ‘aggregate American IQ’, although I doubt if the concept has any meaning.

        • No, I think “aggregate” was a proper and correct choice – as in total or cumulative IQ.

          Let me make this simple. if I have ten numbers as follows:

          145, 125, -62, 135, 120, 117, -115, 106, 111, 109

          the cumulative total or aggregate amount is simply the sum of those numbers, which is 791.

          Now, if we take away – or remove – the number (-62) from the collection, the total or aggregate actually increases from 791 to 853.

          Of course, the average would also increase from 79.1 to 94.8, but I wanted to avoid making it too complicated, as aggregation requires addition only, and average requires addition AND division.

          See how that worked?

          • Well, it obviously works arithmetically, which isn’t the point, the question was, does the concept have any real significance? For example, the aggregate IQ of Classical Athens was far less than that of contemporary Persia,
            BTW, the best example of the ‘average IQ’ insult is the NZ PM Muldoon’s comment on Trans-Tasman migration.

            I’ve sometimes suspected that some people have negative IQs, but in reality, zero is probably the lower limit.

            I should let you get back to the topic on this thread.

      • Yes, please take any expat kiwis back to New Zealand with you, so they will stop telling us Americans how great NZ is and return to Live their Bluddy Dream in their own rotten country. Oh, and leave all the money you made in the U.S. back in the U.S. Give it to a charity or something. Clearly Yanks are thick, because all they do is make more money than Kiwis do. Maybe it is just their hard work and careful planning? Americans do have less “cunning” than Kiwis do, it is very true. I wouldn’t call that quality “smarts”. It’s just that Americans don’t have to always be crafting sneaky ways to get things. So we don’t always exercise that muscle – if we have it at all.

        • The “cunning” part is very true.
          In the States, cunning was not a “gotta have”, you COULD make it on merit alone, wasn’t as easy, but could be done. Honesty is valued.
          In NZ, “cunning” [lie. cheat, steal, shove your integrity in your sock…] is ABSOLUTLY REQUIRED, or you’ll never make it. I think that this is a way of having “cunning” become a normative trait. Honesty is a liability.

          • @carpentaro
            “Liability” is an understatement: honesty is a personality weakness and character flaw in New Zealand, and is effectively marking yourself for slaughter. You may strive to be a decent person, but to a kiwi, you’re a chump.

            @Pencilhead
            Kiwis are hard-wired that way. Many Americans are more innovative and adaptable than flightless birds and can implement it in software, but the end result will be much more effective.

            I struggled with this for many years but in the end, it came down to basic survival and, eventually, success. Cling to false sentimentality and misguided notions of what is for the common good, and you will be roadkill. Think, train and act like the bald eagle.

          • It really is a liability. If nothing else, they will know that if they try to use anything you have said against you, that it won’t be b.s. Your word has value like something they might steal from your house. Because you tell the truth (perhaps in a misplaced desire to communicate efficiently), you have just given them money or gold in a country where dirt on other people is currency and dissembling is a national art.

          • This is not to say that one should be deliberately “dishonest,” but that information exchange must be purposeful, measured and carefully executed. Kiwi professionals, officials, and every day people are not accountable for what they say (or do). As long as they can provide a truthful-sounding explanation later, no harm will come to them; their culture will protect them. If you are wearing a Google Glass and were to record all your interactions, no one would hold them accountable, except for the most lurid or heinous conduct, and even then the punishment would be tepid.

          • This is true. And no one is saying “lie”. Just “consider the value of what you say in a future or other context that turns negative”. I find, you know, when I try to explain why I found their society such an awful place to live, that describing features such as this gets me nowhere with people who have not lived there. Cunning and lack of accountability are the NORM there. Sometimes it is active and sometimes passive (desire to avoid conflict). Among people of almost all classes and backgrounds (but not age, so much). Not characteristics of a subset of people, as in the States, but rather something you’ll encounter in many, many people. But try to explain some of this to some earnest dope who believes the advertising and wants to move there, and has been posting on forums and had the bought-off clappies on there urging him on, and has “future victim of Kiwis” written all over his face.

  18. While on my PC/iPad sending invoices and quotes, i sometimes have 10/20 minutes looking at football, world news and a few various forums.

    One of those forums is a well known expat forum, it seems the message is finally getting through. Posted on 8th October 2014

    These are not my words

    I’m with ****, STAY IN KENT !!!
    Pretty much everything here is overpriced, this coupled with low wages and high property prices can result in a pretty miserable existence. Sure you can have a great view and walk on any one of a thousand beautiful beaches but after a while you realise that this country is mind numbingly dull.
    You’ll find the people very friendly and find it nice that total strangers look you in the eye and say good morning. After a while you’ll realise that this is actually very superficial, in reality the locals won’t like you very much and will resent your wealth, knowledge and experience. They all feel threatened by non kiwi’s, have a ridiculously inflated view of their country’s role on the world stage, are unbelievably ignorant, can’t drive but think they can and love to drink drive, drink hunt, and drink boat.
    You’ll be told about the ‘world famous’ kiwi ingenuity, this is what the rest of the world call COMMON SENSE!
    You may experience the ‘tall poppy’ syndrome, if you start to do well someone will do their best to ‘cut you down to size’.
    Your neighbours will love to pick up the phone to the council for any infringement you may unwittingly make, kiwi’s can’t do confrontation and prefer the cowards way.
    The media here is a joke, get sky for news other than the price of milk.
    Beware of the gangs, they are plentiful,cross them at your peril !
    Beware of bad motorists with no insurance, its optional here.
    If you buy a house to renovate you’ll probably have a stroke the first time you buy any building materials so be careful !
    If you have a dog and are looking forward to walking around clean green NZ with it forget it, they’re banned from the vast majority of the nice bits.
    Schools are NOT free you will be pressured to ‘donate’ on a regular basis.
    Make sure you and your children have perfect teeth, dentists here are thieves.
    Emergency services rely heavily on amateur volunteers with varying degrees of ability, don’t have a house fire or heart attack when the all blacks are playing you’ll have a long wait !
    Every visit to your GP will cost you, around $50 is not unusual.
    Feel free to ignore all of the above, just remember what I’ve written when the ‘honeymoon’ period is over. I’ve been here nearly 8 years and am getting out next year. Can’t wait!!

    • The link is here if anyone wishes to view the full thread.

      http://britishexpats.com/forum/new-zealand-83/buckboys-nz-observations-moved-emigrating-kent-auckland-844686/

      As you can see I have contributed to the thread, not trolled, I have been polite and respectful to other posters, however it does really piss me off how the true life in NZ is hidden behind a wave of honeymoon expats, kiwi wannabes and propaganda.

      As you can see the moderator on the linked thread has urged people to move on from the negatives and let the thread slide, and only hours later another poster has popped up, talking about how unsettled they are.

      I will say so myself, and got a thumbs up for this comment but feel is sums up what expats do who post on said forums
      ”
      I occasionally drop onto this forum, sometimes post, but it is amazing how little of the truth gets through and its funny how the negative is sugarcoated with tales of empty beaches and
      Barbecues with people you don’t like, have little in common with but have round for tea because that’s what happy people do.

      Carry on slating the UK if it helps ease the overpriced isolation”

      People spend £thousands£ to get out there, move their whole life, using poor advice found on said forums, bents truths.

      I don’t wish to discourage anybody from moving anywhere, but please do not dismiss the negatives you see popping up on the net regarding NZ, do your research and do it well.

        • I am sure that some who have come here have been able to “make it”, yet why are all of the Kiwis that have left and come back making comments on here that echo much of what migrants are saying? Why are Kiwis on here lamenting what has happened to NZ?
          I’d ask you to site your source for your statement “I think you’ll find the majority of ex pats are happy here, I should know because I live in the ex pat community, it seems that most of you don’t.” I doubt that that is true and where is this “ex-pat community” that you speak of? Some special enclave? Maybe they’ve got it better in this “ex-pat community” that you mentioned.

          “Goodbye, you won’t be missed.” Seconded.

          • It’s sad. People migrate all the way to New Zealand and then gravitate together in an “ex-pat community.”

            Are the locals that anti-social or is there safety in numbers? Their failure to integrate speaks volumes about their “happiness”

            Most will eventually leave New Zealand because all is takes is for one of their number to break ranks – the others will then follow suit.

          • @admin “Are the locals that anti-social”

            I have an american friend whose kiwi workmates all go out for dinner once a month – except for her because “it’s for kiwis only”.

          • So petty, surely everyone should be considered a Kiwi after migrating to the country?

            Everyone in NZ is either a migrant, or descended from one.

          • That is disgusting, discriminatory and probably illegal. I am a kiwi-born and bred and this site makes me sad because a lot of it is fairly accurate. I hate to think of my fellow kiwi’s being so horrid. If there was a way to give you all my number safely I would do it and I bet when we met up I could show you that we are not all like that.

        • We are moving to christchurch next year as my husband has had a job offer as an embalmer. We will be bringing our 16 yr old daughter. I am hoping to get a job when we get there. My husband will be going in february and we will follow in july so he will be looking for a house. We are not planning on bringing our furniture. I was very positive about it all. I hope we are making the right desicion

          • I don’t know where you and your family are from or why you want to relocate to NZ but my advice to you would be no, please look into it closely before you relocate – kiwis promote the “best place for children” line but it is a cesspool of a place in social terms. Your daughter won’t be even remotely considered a child – they let their kids run wild from 14 or so – even the “best” schools have parties where the kids literally drink themselves to death. Google “roastbusters” and have a big long discussion with your husband before making the mistake so many of us already have. Best of luck! Go there for a holiday instead, have a look around. Don’t be fooled a holiday and living somewhere are the same thing. This place is horrible on so many levels – you really have to live it to understand it.

          • I wholeheartedly agree. New Zealand has ruined my life at the moment. I managed to escape the cesspool, but the effects of being in Retardicon 6 linger. If you want adventure or to change your life for the better, then you could find other places with better people and opportunities to call home. Avoid New Zealand like the plague.

          • Hi Anonymous, If you and your family live somewhere you are in danger then NZ would be a better option, otherwise I wouldn’t recommend a move here, try a local move first. There is a reasonably high possibility you will regret a move to NZ later on. We have lived here for 8 years, worked our nuts off for all we have and been despised for it. Looking back it hasn’t been worth the toll it has taken on us. Read this blog site carefully because sadly I recognise everything that is written here. There are some extreme posts but generally what you will read rings true. We have been trying to get out for the last three years and finally have managed to get to the point of booking one way tickets for January. We will never return.

          • Don’t do this to your daughter. You might be able to make a living for yourselves, but you will subject that poor girl to negativity she should not be exposed to in these crucial years. At her age, you should be preparing her to mature successfully into a happy, healthy adult. Instead, you will be submersing her into a hateful, spiteful, malevolent society, where the majority will want nothing more than to devalue and hold her back. If you must come here, maybe you can arrange for her to stay with friends or family until she graduates and, hopefully, attends college. If you and your husband still decide to come here and are very happy and successful after a minimum of three years, then and only then ask her to join you if she wants. I’d say the odds are very high you won’t.

          • Hi E2NZ, maybe you could create an area on the site called the “Troll Den” where you can move the troll comments you like best for all to see. I’m certain you get quite a few doozies each and every day. I would actually like to engage some lower life forms from time to time to stay sharp, and to practice some new moves I can use in my day-to-day encounters here.

          • We have a troll zoo. It’s at http://trollsnzandkoolaid.wordpress.com. It’s only opened up when trolls turn OCD and have a long history of offending. Thus far it has contained posts from Kaikoura Dave and his alts. Be advised Aiden was from r/newzealand and is active on Facebook, Whale Oil etc. Usually our policy is to deny trolls the oxygen of publicity.

        • I live in a nice house too, Charlie. It costs way more than it should, and for the same amount of money, I could have three times the home in a real city, in a real country, where the majority of people are interesting and have more to do than get boozed, stoned and connive. You go right ahead and enjoy yourself, mate. Maybe we’ll cross paths some day soon. I’m sure I’ll recognize you when I do.

  19. ..i have 2 kids,my boy was 7 yrs old and my girl is 9 yrs..were been here 6 months already…once in a while my 2 kids are saying that they wanted to go back to our country (philippines)..my hearth was melting and broken..but i dont know what to do..we dont have money to buy ticket..im sorry for my poor english..i dont have work but my husband has work..my husband has no idea about this…i dont know if i can say its homesick..its been 6 month were been here..well even me i really really want to go back to the philippines and i cant imagine that we can stay here for long..it so hard to stay here in new zealand..too much expensive to live here specialy if you dont have work..i was trying to find a job but i always failed..i miss my family,and also my kids,they miss thier cousin and playmates..can you please give me some advice?

    • @Ghie – You sound like you’re trying to stay strong and positive for your kids – don’t let your situation get you down as there are people who both care and understand. I can’t really give you any advice because I don’t know what situation you left, but do post your experiences here as there are many of us far from home and just voicing your problems can help.

      This may be of use – and In case this link doesn’t work, just google it – Filipinos Association in New Zealand – and you will at least be able to network a bit with people from home. Best of luck and welcome to this group.

      http://filipinosinauckland.wordpress.com/

    • It is a dangerous trap that is easy to fall into in this country: becoming unemployed, and you want to resume working as fast as possible (duh). I would suggest you go to a free, public sector career counselor who might be able to guide you. Their website is careers.govt.nz. Their contact links are on the right: be specific and ask to meet with a career counselor for free. I know they are funded by the government, but they are not the same as WINZ. From what I know of them, they tend to focus on entry-level jobs and general vocational counseling, so that may or may not suit. Have a resume/CV ready when you meet and be honest but not needy. Don’t expect too much but make them believe you are professional and ready to work, and they might know someone/somewhere that is hiring or might help. Catholic Social Services offers a low-cost counseling service, and they might be of some assistance also.

      I have met many Filipinos over the years and my impression is that most are struggling like many other migrants. In general, you probably have two choices:

      #1. Cut your losses as fast as possible. Sell everything, work day jobs or other temp work if you can, and save until you have enough money to return home as soon as possible;

      #2. Keep trying. Find a job or relocate to find work elsewhere in NZ. Christchurch has the lowest unemployment at 1.6% and could be your ticket, although the rental situation is very bad, and I personally would not want to live there.

      If you choose #2, you may find that your circumstances change if you become employed and you are able to make friends. Your kids might also find friends in a new community. Frankly, I wouldn’t be too hopeful, but at least keep an open heart, with a shield and sword nearby. Then after five years of saving, you can decide whether to apply for citizenship and/or relocate elsewhere in NZ, overseas, or back home. The point is that you will have made an investment in New Zealand, and you should use it to your advantage, and keep the option open for return in the future.

      I would recommend that you network with the Filipino community in your area to get help. If you are in one of the three larger cities, there should be other expats who can give you advice more relevant to your circumstances. I know there was/is an annual gathering every year at Mt. Taranaki of Filipinos in New Zealand that might be worth going to as well (that’s all I know about it). Try meetup.com for groups in your area that you might fit with; unfortunately there aren’t any Filipino groups on Meetup in New Zealand (there are at least two in Oz). There is also an organisation called InterNations that has meet-ups around New Zealand. Their website is http://www.internations.org/new-zealand-expats . When you go to any meet-up, don’t appear or act needy, just look for friendly people you feel comfortable with; let people know what you are good at; and see if they can suggest real solutions.

      Whatever you do, keep your eyes open and guard up to stay far away from the bottom feeders who seek to exploit people who are desperate (payday loans or shady immigration agents, for example). I would also avoid government aid (WINZ, etc.), as they are not only no help and generally a waste of time, they might actually cause you distress and will then have a file on you.

      Good luck.

    • @Ghie, i think this time you become adjusted to NZ life and you are already working.
      I noticed your comments here because I’m trying to apply and move if i am qualified.
      As of now i am working here in Middle East- Abu Dhabi,UAE. Living in a foreign countries needs us to adapt/love their culture and work hard.
      Also,Is there anyone can help me where i can seek an advice?

  20. Been here 24 years,from the UK married with 3 boys. 1 see the beauty of this country,but 1 long for home so much. please feel free to email me.
    John

    • You should tell us more John, I have a friend in west auckland who is in a very similar situation, he can’t leave as he is married to a kiwi (a proper one, not a expat who has abandoned their identity) with 2 kids, both kiwi.

      He hates the place and has been there a few years 20+ so has property and lives a fairly decent life, but feels stuck and isolated.

      • I’m in the same boat too, I’ve been here 25 years and hate it more and more every day. The problem is my wife has a job she loves and chooses to keep drinking the Kool-Aid in regards to everything else. I went home for 2 years during 2012/2013 out of desperation but came back for my kids and tried to work on the relationship. I’m back to square one, hating the place with a passion but feeling trapped…

        • you guys talk as boats, for me is the whole dam cargo ship!
          my family came here in the mid 60’s when I was 4 going on 5. Ive been backwards and forwards many times, keep returning due to family. But my dad’s gone, my mother’s not far away, and once they are no longer around I’m out of here. Luckily my partner, born and bred kiwi girl feels the same way. She has a UK passport due to her father being ex UK, so once we sort things out we’re selling up and moving back to France….assuming the brits don’t brexit…. just when we had plans in hand someone has to go and throw the spanner in the proverbial works!

          • You’ll know by now that we voted to leave the EU.I’ve had a second home in northern France for 13 years and the French people I know are cool with that.A lot would like to do the same.Come to France by all means but do not underestimate the difficulty of getting a job.Even if you speak fluent French it will be a near impossibility.There are a lot of French people unemployed and,quite rightly,they will come first in the queue.If you’re going back to France to retire,enjoy the lifestyle-good luck!

          • e2nz

            Not with the way things are going with the Govt constantly faffing around and making tools of themselves.

          • Hi, don’t know if u have moved back to France yet, but big piece of advice is don’t. We endured 20+ years in France, paying massive taxes (ok, let me be super honest here – heart attack level taxes as we had French businesses). In the end, my family and I decided that we couldn’t take it any more. Every month prices hike up and up, the government invents new and even more punishing taxes that make no sense except to cripple a country that is already seriously struggling, and the outlook is extremely bleak. The quality of our family life was borderline poverty even when we were earning good money. Everyone in France exists on their credit cards, and this fake life is going to collapse any time soon. All the years we struggled and sacrificed and suffered horrendous racial attacks only to end up owing money made us rethink, and thank God we had the courage to relocate and start all over again. My Kiwi wife was seriously looking at us moving to NZ, but after doing loads of research and visiting sites like this and many others where people have the opportunity to unburden themselves and tell it like it is (for them at any rate), she thankfully decided that “going home” was not a good idea. More than 30 years away, and sentimental memories of a fabulous childhood growing up in the Bay of Plenty had, as she herself says, slightly warped her attitude about NZ. We have both found everyones’ perspectives extremely helpful, so many thanks to all of you that have contributed. We moved late last year to my home country of Bulgaria, (which has, in my 2 decades of absence, hauled itself up by its underpants into the 21st century). I still spend a great deal of time in France with my new international, non French company, and so, get to constantly reconfirm my wise decision in relocating. For the first time in years, I now am enjoying life. I have a very good income from my hard work and – how innovative – a reasonable level of taxes that don’t push me to the edge of insanity. Terrorism is tearing away at the very fabric of French Society (the 14th of July attack last year that killed 85 on the Promenade des Anglais in Nice happened only 100 metres from our old apartment where we used to live when we first married), and things will never be the same again. The Brexit vote hasn’t had time to affect any ex pats living in France yet, but it will. And taxpayers money being used to build thousands of new homes to house Syrian refugees is not sitting well with Monsieur and Madame average. Rebellion can be smelled in the air. Anyhow, my family now lives like royalty in BG on less than a quarter of what our old meagre life used to cost us in France. There are plenty of wonderful countries to live in in Europe (or anywhere else for that matter) so, do yourself a favour, if you are a smart bloke, give France the widest berth possible. It is not what it used to be.

  21. I am a NZ’er and have lived in Australia for 10 years, trained as an EEN had a great job in a huge hospital. All our children got trained in trades and set. Unfortunately one of children finished school within the special needs area and we had to return to NZ as Australia wouldn’t support, Been back 6 years, my adult child is catered for but I am so frustrated with my own country. For a start as a enrolled nurse, you can only work in aged care and you are not appreciated. As for the amount of people on benefits, and the cost of living, this country is not that clean green nice place it once was when I was a kid. I now know why we went to Australia, to get out of the poverty. Stuck in my own country and it sucks!!!!!!!!!!!!

  22. I don’t have first hand info, but I’ve heard [from Brit nurse] that the private hospitals are much better to work for.
    The mix up thing, not too suprizing, and the excuses, have heard alot of them.
    People from SA? That is unusual. I’ve not had any problem with them, and get along well. Outside of a few Kiwis, SAs have been some of the easiest to get along with. Every American that I’ve seen here I’ve gotten along with, without saying, we know [what it could be like]. Just a glance or look, and you know they’ve seen it, too.

    • I found this to be true too. Even if they were in denial about how crap it was, you could see it on their faces. Not wanting to offend Kiwis or lose their jobs, the lips would mouth careful qualifiers, but you could see it in their eyes. I wish more of these would be more honest. Fewer Americans would get “caught out” by the BS PR.

  23. I’m a registered nurse and I came to NZ a year ago from OZ, relocated because got married after a couple of years of long term relationship.

    My frustrations:
    Took 6-7 months to have my NZ registration + annual practicing certificated processed. I was told that there was an earthquake in Wellington (Location of nursing council) and that’s why it delayed the whole process.

    When I’ve finally received my registration – incorrect spelling (name) on the registration certificate. I e-mail + called the council so many times: zero replies. Ended up sending an angry e-mail …got a reply immediately after.

    Had to send that registration certificate back to the council in order to get a newly updated, correct spelling certificate. Took…them 2.5 weeks to do it.

    Yes I know things are done real slow here, but isn’t this a bit too slow?

    Jobs:
    So everything said during interview turned out to be…different, completely different. There isn’t a lot of support and it’s so understaffed here that I find I’m placing my career in danger with these unsafe practices. During work orientation, everything looks good in words – verbal and in written, but in reality it doesn’t seems to be as good as gold?

    Question: Is there a huge difference between the public sector and the private?

    I’m sorry to say this but I honestly do misses working in Australia, at least the nurses are being looked after. Used to think how much problems there is in OZ but now I feel NZ is seriously washing my profession down the drain…

    Apart from the “go back to your own country” sort of comments, any other suggestions? I like NZ, the pay is less but the views and scenery — Priceless. Yes it is expensive here compared to OZ (I’m serious), but the food qualities are actually very good and worth it’s price — we deserve a treat every now and then.

    People here are nice too but I’ve had a few issues… well lots of issues with the South African Caucasians. Maybe it’s just personality clashes but seems like only them I have issues with?

    Wished I had look at this thread earlier on, or even a year ago…

    Thanks for all the comments peeps!

    • FrustratedA

  24. Interesting. Complaining because the support for mothers and families is so good. That’s a new one. 🙂 If a little country like NZ can do it, why not the US? As for “no incentive” to go out and work…..that comes down to the individual. As you said, you had a hard time finding a job at all. In that situation, without support, you’d likely not be able to afford any children at all. NZ made that possible.

  25. I’m a New Zealander from birth, I went to the UK for 2 years on a working holiday visa and didn’t want to leave. All the above comments are true. NZ is safe and has an amazing outdoors, but that is it. Well written post and totally agree with you on all points.

  26. I may be an unusual poster as I have been here since 1971 so am well used to NZ. I have a kiwi husband, children and grandchildren. I have a comfortable life having worked as a nurse here. Paid my taxes etc etc. so to an outsider it would appear I am settled and really a kiwi now. Well I cannot put in to words how much I loathe living here. There has never been a day that I didn’t wish I was home in UK. The culture of cynicism and greed are tiring . I am sick of the sullen lazy parts of the population. They are soft and incapable of coping with anything. The driving, the children, the general lowering of everything to the lowest common denominator. I hear every day how lucky we are to be here. I gave just returned from home and have decided that this is now my last chance to return for good. The family are all fine and settled and will visit. The grandchildren are growing fast and their OE will be a reality. My daughter loves England too so one day her and her husband may well move over as well. Looking at houses and feeling really good. I know I come from a great part if the Uk and it’s not all wonderful but it us where I want to live. Think carefully before you come to this soulless place. I have served my sentence over over 40 miserable years.

    • God bless you; may your new life fill you with all the hope and happiness you deserve.

    • Your comment “the general lowering of everything to the lowest common denominator” really resonated with me. My grandparents generation at least had pride in themselves and their personal standards but the newer generations just don’t seem to, whatever is easiest whether it’s the language they use, clothes they wear, way they walk, aspirations they have. It’s so sad. We are in Oz now and it is very different, people have pride in themselves and have the expectation of success. I hope you do make it back home and enjoy your time their back in civilisation. I feel quite ashamed of a lot of the behaviour NZers exhibit. Yes there are some great Kiwis, but the overall passionless hostility must just be shocking to a lot of immigrants.

    • So much hate. Bye, don’t fall off that high horse on the way out.

      Please read our Comments page. There you’ll find out we have a zero tolerance policy regarding trolling and ad hom attacks.

      You’re now banned. For both.

    • [troll post deleted

      Kaikoura Dave you’re banned for trolling (link). “ftw@gmail” life is really that bad for you? you could always leave…      ]

      • Readers are reminded that bans are permanent.

        Sure it sucks to be thrown out, but E2NZ is not your mom.

        Maybe if people like “Kahmal” Kaikoura Dave had a better upbringing they’d not go on to be dysfunctional adults?

    • Happy new year All !! Anyone noticed something really suspicious on TV just know on new years eve in nz ?!

  28. NZ has its problems but that isn’t stopping the hoards of immigrants desperate to come here. Why?

    Because if you compare living here to so many other places in the world, it’s actually quite fantastic. In saying that, it’s not for everyone, but that’s why you need to do your research first.

    If you like breathing fresh air, breathtaking scenery, finishing work at 5pm and heading to the beach while the suns still shining, roast lamb, horses grazing in residential areas, picnics, having a weekend that doesn’t involve going to the mall, good beer and wine (and cheap), sending your kids to schools where they can play and have an actual childhood, having a trampoline in your back yard, having a back yard and living in an actual house, owning a car when you’re 16, drinking tap water, having hens lay eggs in your yard, fishing, starting or owning a small business, DIYing it…then you might like it here.

    If you like international fashion, big shopping malls with cheap goods, great nightlife, heaps of people and events, plentiful, cheap and or exotic food and restaurants, modern buildings, high salaries, techy jobs, convenience stores, world renowned schools, plentiful career opportunities….then go elsewhere.

    Don’t buy a ticket to Antarctica and expect a tropical paradise, you get what you get. I’ve lived in both types of places and traveled the world – it has given me an appreciation for this country I never would’ve had. Do your research, get a job before you come or have a plan to get out before your funds run out. No place is fun when you’re on minimum wage, but I have to say if you are then NZ is actually a damn good place to live anyway, you will always have someone to look after you.

    NZ is a very young, very under populated country, yet people expect it to be at the same level as other western countries. We have a lot to offer, a lot of immigrants have found success and happiness in this country including several from my own family. The OP was valid but some the comments are just cruel and unfair. Welcome to anyone that wants to become a Kiwi, just come with a good attitude and try to keep it!

    • New Zealand promises a lot and has so little to offer. If you are a looking for escape from a war-torn existence in another land, sure, it’s a step up. But, honestly, New Zealand isn’t looking for immigrants who are suffering; the downtrodden poor need not apply.

      The people whom New Zealand is targeting are the talented migrants from better nations. And these immigrants find themselves marginalised and shut out despite their qualifications when they arrive, due to the deeply-ingrained ignorance, fear and incompetence which is rampant in kiwi society.

      So, the problem isn’t what immigrants expect, it’s what New Zealand pretends to be, contrasted with what it really is: a second world country in decline.

    • Yes, your comments about coming with a good attitude and ‘try to keep it’ is sage advice. The bitter cold (yes, even in the north island), grey days, and lack of anything to do outside for my kids when it is cold, rainy, and wet, has them in cabin fever land! Yes, I should have thought MORE about where I came from prior to coming to a place with limited opportunities to enjoy the outdoors, even if it more breath taking a view here, than the western US. Working in a job that I do not like to buy groceries and fruit/veg at Saturday markets so we can afford fruits and veg is crazy. Take heed professionals…. REALLY LOOK HARD at where you are coming before making the commitment, especially if you come from a large US metropolitan area. Living even in the capital city (Wellington) there is little to do. If you have teenagers, understand that there is NOTHING for them to do unless you have them in sports activities every day after school! No wonder they offer free birthcontrol without a parents consent at the age of 14. Everyone is on island time here. Do NOT expect that you will get things accomplished in the time frames you are used to in the US. Everyone goes on holiday 4x a year and is revolved around the substandard IMHO educational standards, as compared to the US. There are 3 2-week term breaks and then the 5 weeks at Christmas/summer. Everyone checks out a week before the breaks and takes about 2 weeks to get back into the swing of things. You do the math! 5weeks x 3 = 15 and 8 weeks at summer = 23 weeks of the year people are on holiday in their minds. That’s a wonderful state to be in as long as you plan on doing nothing. Look at the lack of motivation is a large segment of the population, is it any wonder? I have asked about homework in schools and the repeated pat answer is that the ‘new’ way and statistics show that homework does not improve someone. Instead they should be playing a sport after school (see my comments above about keeping your teen busy and in sports!). Well, my kids want to go back to the US for University and I am sorry they are not going to get to go there unless we return to the US post haste for their education. Here, an 85 = an A. Universities do not necessarily have text books, a university year is about 2/3 of the time spent in a US counterpart. Oh yes, and you get to resit for tests up to 3 times if you are get qualifications for particular training. Please, do yourself a favour and do ALL of your homework prior to bringing your family, especially kids whom you want educated here. Additionally, if you are someone who cannot stand the cold then do not come – or as others have mentioned, come with an inordinate amount of money to try and heat a home that the wind whistles through due to terrible prior building codes that many homes/apartments suffer from. We live in a beautiful home but cannot afford to heat it. We keep one room closed with a heater. In fact it is 13 Celcius (Yes, 55 degrees F) in my home now as a type looking out at a beautiful setting through the window but freezing in 3 layers and a winter jacket inside. Just be informed. Are there good things about NZ? Of course! Just MAKE sure you do your homework on the things that YOU hold as priority, thoroughly check your priorities out before making the final decision!! All the best with your decision making.

    • “If you like breathing fresh air”, except in the winter when everyone [who is lucky enough] is using woodburning stoves to heat, you can smell the wood smoke. ChCh has a ban on woodburners at times during the winter.
      Scenery is everywhere.
      Finishing work at 5 means stores are closed when you want to go to them.
      “sending your kids to schools where they can play and have an actual childhood” inclusive of being bullied and poorly educated [except in how to avoid “getting the bash”].
      “living in an actual house” that you can not afford to buy and is like a wind tunnel and cold and unaffordable to heat in the winter and uncomfortably warm in the summer [that indoor/outdoor flow?].

      So far, even the good points are not very good.

  29. Everyone – a fellow unhappy migrant suggested that we leave some comments on the BBC’s Wanted Down Under Facebook page. They’re trying to persuade families to move from happy situations to NZ or Aus by taking them on a week’s glossy vacation there! As if.

  30. It looks like the original post was from a few years ago so I’m hoping things have improved for her and her family. Unfortunately, there were some definite truths in what she posted but it may be a circumstance of geography. I do believe that it could be easier in a bigger population as far as job opportunities go especially now that the economy has improved. As a recruitment company owner, we often despair in finding talented people to fill jobs. There seems a real mismatch in skills required by employers and those on offer tend to be lowly skilled. We could blame the government but it’s hard to do too much when navigating through world economic instability. Now that books are looking better, I’m hoping whichever govt comes in this year focuses on getting our young people motivated and onto upskilling themselves in areas we have actual jobs. I also have trouble understanding why we lure skilled immigrants here and then make it so hard for them to find work. Again, I can only hope that now demand is greater than supply, that has changed.

    It’s a big call to uproot yourself from all you know and your support systems to come to a new country. I admire anyone who has the courage to do so and truly wish that all immigrants get a warm reception and settle into the wonderful life most of us experience.

    • Hi D,
      I’m not really sure whether I can help but presume you’ve spoken to specialist legal recruitment companies? There’s a couple in Auckland if you do a google search. The only other suggestion I have is to try and find a mentor within a law firm that practises within your area of specialty and ask for help to transition to the NZ environment. Perhaps through the legal associations you may get a referral? Go direct to well respected retired partners? It’s basically trying to access their networks. I’m assuming your quals are recognised here but if not, you may need to complete the equivalency exams.

      Don’t think I’ve been too helpful but wish you all the best.

      • MBF – I doubt that you will follow this up – now 18 months later. My experience is that employers in NZ actually “fear difference”. I have helped people with advanced degrees get work here (NZ M.Sc and Ph.Ds – not foreign ones). For the work on offer they were eminently qualified – perhaps over qualified – but obviously willing to work for the salary envisaged. In all (of 20) but one case they were rejected for various reasons. Now, some of those reasons would be genuine – but the majority, when I followed up, were specious and some downright fatuous!

        In other cases with highly qualified foreign people, hoping to emigrate – the effort required (to prove no NZ applicants were available or suitable), was just a bridge too far. Admittedly, this required three advertisements in local and other newspapers and posting the job in the local WINZ office. Soooooo exhausting.

        There is this pervading “fear” in many NZ employers – one that I do not understand and it is not because it is too difficult. Or perhaps that is really it – it IS too difficult – but only in the mind of the employer.

        My contention with the initial writer is that NZ professional qualifications (medical, dental, legal etc), are accepted readily overseas. I cannot comment on nursing, but would tend to agree about the level of engineering skill being on the low side, due in greater part to that inertia of most employers.

    • Kiwis fear someone that might be smarter/more quailified/being shown up or outdated. Sucess is something they have a love/hate relationship with [hence the tall poppy thing].
      Firms don’t want to hire someone that might have new/different skills [that they don’t possess], and they are affraid to seem small, not up with the latest [ironic as they can avail themselves of the newer info with hiring you], and they are happy with the way things are; slower, less efficient, poor quality…
      They want what they don’t have but are not willing to admit it, so they “harden up” and pretend that they don’t want/need what they really could have. It is rather bizzare.

      • This is SO true! I have told my friends back in the US that to your face everyone seems very friendly all the social welfare ‘everyone is equal’ stuff. But, you can see ‘deep down in’ that there is an issue due to lack of patriotism to where they live wanting to be someone else from somewhere else, but they aren’t. My move here, from the USA – with my 3 kids, I am second guessing, despite being married to a Kiwi,

    • Same here Ben. Moved here (New Plymouth) with my family. Great job, great friends (90% are Kiwis) and totally settled. The Kiwis are very friendly and open to friendship but you have to make the effort. I think that most Kiwis are open to friendship to those who have tried to integrate in New Zealand, and most importantly work and contribute to the economy.
      I am an engineer which is in demand in Taranaki (oil & gas), hence why we moved here.
      Our family have lived and worked around the World and New Zealand, although is not perfect, is as close to perfect that we have experienced. Originally from the UK, the only thing we miss is family.
      My wife and I pinch ourselves with what we have in NZ compared to our lives in the UK, Spain and Switzerland.
      Any regrets?…..not even a single one.

        • You say in your other posts you moved to NZ in 06, therefor you would have arrived when the NZ dollar was not massively inflated and probably been able to buy property, which now is near impossible for most younger people in NZ. You also say your from Wales, but when asked, you tell people your from NZ ???? That’s a bit strange.

          The “less fake” comment made me chuckle, I have never met people as plastic and fake in my life than kiwis, or as yourself, a kiwi-wannabee, kiwis hide behind a brand, a silver fern for gods sake, it’s plastic, tacky and printed on everything in the country.

          NZ has no history, no culture or roots of its own, as I have said and heard so many times in the last few years, people in NZ moan about the UK, only to justify to themselves that they made the right choice with NZ.

          If you enjoy isolation, propaganda, hypocrites, Americanism, expensive living, inflated housing, over valued NZ dollar, poor housing, racism, 2 faced, backstabbing people your well suited my friend.

          None of the above matters though, because you can have a BBQ….

          Enjoy heaven

          • Well said uk builder. Could’nt agree more. And the resentment towards the Brits b’cos of jealousy. Because we do have strengh of character, culture, history and yes the little man can have success, can speak up and be heard and have positive changes happen that is so of a 1st world democratic country.

        • Less fake? You generally can’t believe a thing they say. The lack of honesty is rampant, and that is about as fake as you can get.
          How long have you been in NZ? That may have something to do with it.

        • There are people who do fit into New Zealand. Ben above sounds rough n ready and turning his hand to all kinds of mechanical things, so he would fit in well. The other one, well, an engineer in oil and gas, he has the income not to have to encounter the worst of society there and is in an area where his job would receive some respect. I think there was a thread on it over here – being frugal, loving rural areas and a little counterculture, I truly thought we would fit in, too. We did make friends, but the culture in general was too difficult. The economy was worst of all. It warped everything. The housing stock and drugs were just awful. The attitudes, well, you can sort through and find nice people. But when your home country is just all around a better place to live, sorting through people to find the good apples when you already have a large crowd of good apples at home is not worth it. Moving to New Zealand was a mistake for us, too. And a number of other people who never bother to post about their experience, but shared their views with us. New Zealand does have holes certain people will slot into well. Finding out whether you are one of those people and where that hole is, might just not be worth the cost and hassle of the move, though. That’s our point here.

      • Yet despite your state of bliss (and having lived in Switzerland which you say is preferable to NZ??) you somehow managed to find your way to this site? Please be advised we have a zero tolerance policy regarding trolling. Carry on drinking the Kool-Aid but don’t try to peddle it here.

        • I think some people become adept at practising intellectual gymnastics as the dampness, mould, and unbearable cold of the crappy New Zealand houses sets in. Admittedly, New Zealand is great for a certain type of person, usually those that are lazy, uncultured, and lacking ambition.

          Justifying one’s actions and the difficulty of admitting a mistake often provides a strong impetus for denying reality.

  32. The author said: New Zealand is the only coutry who pays for you to have chilcdren.
    That also applies to Canada. LOL. Each child below 18 years old gets an allowance from the government.

  33. Hi there,
    I loved your article about new Zealand. I live in Christchurch, too, in Heathcote. The local priest is American. There are vege Co-ops all over the city, usually operating from churches. There is a selection, already bagged for $10 every week. I go to Opawa baptist to collect mine on a Wednesday morning. My favourite things are walking, listening to music and reading. I’m kiwi born, but I love Americans. It would be nice to meet you both.

  34. Honest advice, move up to tauranga or hamilton, people are actually friendly up here. And best place for an engineer 🙂

    • Ben, you’re taking this piss right? Ten-dollar Tauranga is the worst advice ever. That town is so insular and “matey-matey” that they all find no problem with openly bragging about it. Winz denies benefits to Uni graduates and actively (or perhaps kindly) recommends that engineers move away ASAP, lest you end up picking kiwifruit for a psycho who insists you aren’t allowed to leave the property, even during off-hours, even if you live nearby. I am not exaggerating one bit. And sure, everyone is friendly until they settle into your trust enough to smoke P in your house and then steal your car. It truly is the worst place, full of the worst people I have ever experienced. The whole town is a friggin circus sideshow.

  35. It sounds like you have moved to the South Island. If you do not have high paid jobs then yes it cold be a miserable experience. Many people in the South Island do not move and have no need to make new friends as their families are all close by. Yes rugby is a big talking point. however if you are prepared to follow the rugby and ask some of the locals around for a BBQ you will start to make friends. We have overseas trips every year and a beach holiday in Nelson in summer and winter skiing holidays. NZ is very self contained and you can do everything without going overseas.

    If you are still having trouble making friends then move to Wellington or Orewa where there are plenty of new immigrants. shalom.

  37. Just moved back to Nz I’m a kiwi and the place is escalated backwards, a govt that is led by liars,cheats,and elitist attitudes, Nz is totally mis managed and going backwards financially, if there’s anything to own most assets are getting sold off as we speak.Wages are low,and yes it’s who you know as far as job opportunities go….I’m saving go go back to oz…I love this country but not enough to live in dire straits…………If you have the opportunity to live in oz…..Go there like the thousands of kiwis,each year..Sorry John Key, I’m out of here my tax dollars just aren’t worth staying for……

  38. well after 9 years here we are off back to the uk..had enough..the wifes a professional manager and has been threatened at work swore at and the people involved were just moved on by the company..not sacked!! I went back to being self employed as the wages here are pathectic ..and endured lying cheating kiwis ..something i never really experienced by my customers in the uk..hence i do not trust them at all! Friends are mostly english apart from one kiwi who is married to a scot lady..and even he said dont trust the kiwis.Wish i had never dragged my wife over here…only good thing is i have a kiwi passport.and ill use this one day to get in to Australia…ill never come back here.

    • I have an English colleague at work and he comes from Southport. He absolutely love it here. He said the only thing he misses about England is his friends, otherwise.. he said he loves the fresh air and not many people and the easy access to the beach and … he loves everything.

      • +Heather, “compromise” is a very big word and people get into that mode without complaining. British (in particular) are known to have some decency before complaining at the top of their voice, if it were a Kiwi in Britain kept in similar situation then you would see the difference. If your English colleague doesn’t acknowledge about stuff written on this site then chances are high that he’s baptized to becoming typical “kiwi” by now 😉

  39. She sounds exactly like a Kiwi. 1964 was another world. New Zealand has changed a great deal since then. And read about how it started trying to attract migrants by advertising, and only recently on this blog it was noted, doing things like removing anti-intellectualism from its Wiki entry to actively prevent people from finding out the downsides. The attitudes have not changed in New Zealand, but its marketing has. It is not easy to find out what New Zealand is really like without living there for awhile. If you can call that “living”. http://books.google.com/books?id=YnB2o3_UOTMC&pg=PA27&lpg=PA27&dq=%22new+zealand%27s+nation+branding%22&source=bl&ots=kPwQ_WmZoL&sig=1cBAcqxXakWH9aPAcL7AkS7RWSQ&hl=en&sa=X&ei=vFFRUvaQL4Ts8gSF_ICwAg&ved=0CCgQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22new%20zealand%27s%20nation%20branding%22&f=false

    • 1964? That is commendable!

      Aren’t you lucky that you don’t have to emigrate and find work these days. Do you attribute your lack of compassion and inability to empathise to living in New Zealand for so long?

    • [Deleted because of repeated (passive aggressive) ad hom attacks and the inevitable ‘don’t like it, leave’ sign off.

      And you’re a teacher in NZ and wrote that rubbish during school hours when you should have been teaching? Way to go with setting an example!

      Please don’t troll. Unlike the classroom, this is a safe place. Maybe you need a change of career?

      You’re banned.
      Admin      ]

  41. Nowhere is perfect. There are people everywhere that make life irritating or terrible. On the whole, I like the people of NZ, but the business practices and what passes for business ethics suck. There are little cliques and cartels everywhere and if you are not one of the boys, then you will get nowhere. In countries like the USA, the Occupy Movement complains about one percent of the population owning 1/3 of the assets. In NZ one percent own sixty – yes, that’s right 60 percent of the assets. And parliament entrenches this while the ordinary working man/woman just struggles to make ends meet. Prices of durable goods are THREE times higher than in places like OZ and the USA. And don’t tell me its about small markets – that is shite. This is about a handful of big boys controlling the distribution channels and rorting the system. This lack of opportunity combined with blatant exploitation is why one quarter of all Kiwis born in NZ will migrate permanently rather than stay here. This place is long overdue for a really bloody revolution that will end the exploitation that leads to over a quarter of a million kids living in poverty. Godzone, what a joke. We’re owned!

    • Why are the ordinary kiwis buying from this 1% that own 60% of NZ?
      Is it possible that they do not want to patronise people offering the same services and products for less, who do not share citizenship with them?

      I have been told that when Asian migrants set up restaurants, some Kiwis avoid it primarily because of the change in ownership, not what the menu offers.

      • P Ray it’s complicated as to why Kiwis let this 1% own 60% of the assets. Your best bet is to buy this book on Amazon that explains the concentration of wealth in Capitalist countries and look what it says about NZ. The phenomenon is worldwide, but just more pronounced here because it is an island nation. The book is a good adventure story with social and sociological commentary throughout called “Sniper Missions – The Business of War and the War of Business” by Sergeant Radar Erasmus. It will be the best $3.99 that you will ever spend and it will anger you when you realise just how we are all being conned.

        • I am sure that’s a good book, but all the Marxist arguments in the world cannot explain away the fact that New Zealand’s culture is a difficult one for immigrants to become a part of. It has a certain character to it for various reasons that transcends any political changes. We moved there in the Helen years and nothing much changed when Key took over except for the volume of the Marxist whingers’ complaints. Ever since people were first conned into moving there by snake oil salesmen in real estate Ponzi schemes, lies have been told about the “lifestyle” on offer, and leftie New Zealanders buy into the insane illusion as well. Read this junk. http://www1.internationalliving.com/sem/country/down-under/new-zealand/google/content/retire-lp.html?_kk=retire%20to%20new%20zealand&_kt=955f66eb-9a66-419b-b7b9-05641d5dcd8b&gclid=CKyry6K4rbsCFQbl7AodexAAUA

          • I looked at the book and it has some whopper lies, especially about the house prices in New Zealand and Australia. However, this is how the migration scam works.

            For retirees, New Zealand is actually a great place to spend several months during the summer in a place like Fiordland, but it is not a place to live permanently unless you fit into the inexplicable New Zealand mould. Nonetheless, I think you can replicate this style for much less in Latin America. New Zealand has Latin American incompetence and quality, but Switzerland or Norway prices.

  42. mizzykizzy, I was born in New Zealand and after 20 odd years of enduring people of your ilk decided to leave and never return.

    “i come from an above average lifestyle” =So that means you weren’t brought up in Otara but Panmure.

    “the north island has alot more to offer. especially waikato. with all the farms, meat works “ = These are both tertiary educated people and you want them to move to the Waikato to work in a abattoir slashing up dead carcasses all day for $14 an hour. Have you left your mind???

    “my partner has been working there since he was 15 years old and is now racking in more then $1000 per week for around 11hours per day 5days a week” = Fantastic, he got his career path sorted out when he was real young.

    “it did help that my siblings worked there when i started because they put in a good word for me. “ =This is the reason immigrants can’t get work because of the old boys network, who cares if others were harder working and more qualified.

    “you are so right about winz, when me and my partner broke up i had to go on the benefit, i was getting paid $500 per week, it is great that they do this but there is no motivation to get you back to work at all” = Yes, one of the reasons I left. I got sick and tired of being treated like a beast of burden.

    “alot of my freinds are on the DPB and it is hard to see them struggle with there kids just scrapping by each week but still having enough money to get a box (Beer) and some smokes.” = Don’t forget the family pack of dope.

    “i think also that it is awesome that teens can go to a doctors for free to get advise, be able to prescibe themselves condoms, birth control pills etc. at least they are thinking about that stuff. it is hard for a child/teen to talk to their parents about sex” =I believe the age of consent is 16 but the health services is encouraging 14 years olds to break the law, interesting concept.

    Mizzykizzy, I am so glad that you came on here and contributed so all potential immigrants can get a taste of a 100 % pure New Zealanders aptitude. You are fairly typical of the “average kiwi” that one can expect to meet when they arrive, especially when all the NZ Uni educated ones have left for Oz or EU or USA.

    • Jerry, if you haven’t lived in nz for 20 years and are someone who doesn’t seem to think much about NZ and NZers, why do you feel the need to spend so much time on the Internet slagging the place off. Not all the uni educated new zealanders leave, some do but I think you’ll find that most don’t.

      • Al, if you take the care to read Jerry’s interesting comments you’ll see that he lived in NZ for 20 years, not left 20 years ago. You paid it about as much attention as you do those speculative CVs.

  44. this article was so awesome to read. i come from an above average lifestyle so i see/have seen what’s on ‘both sides of the fence’. and i have grown up and lived in all parts.

    hey you should honestly move from christchurch as it is so over populated and unpredictable with the earthquakes. the north island has alot more to offer. especially waikato. with all the farms, meat works i don’t know why everyone hasn’t moved already.

    i worked at the meat works for a few months before i fell pregnant and was getting paid $14 per hour. which was pretty good as minimum wage used to be $9.50. so i was making around $600 per week. my partner has been working there since he was 15 years old and is now racking in more then $1000 per week for around 11hours per day 5days a week. we both started off with no qualifications.

    it did help that my siblings worked there when i started because they put in a good word for me.

    you are so right about winz, when me and my partner broke up i had to go on the benefit, i was getting paid $500 per week, it is great that they do this but there is no motivation to get you back to work at all. but they are still complaining about everyone on the DPB. alot of my freinds are on the DPB and it is hard to see them struggle with there kids just scrapping by each week but still having enough money to get a box and some smokes. i really blame it on the parents for not trying harder to get them out of the same cycle that they grew up in.

    i think also that it is awesome that teens can go to a doctors for free to get advise, be able to prescibe themselves condoms, birth control pills etc. at least they are thinking about that stuff. it is hard for a child/teen to talk to their parents about sex and things and they especially wouldn’t want to tell you, because of embarrassment and because they may feel like a dissappointment. i think the best thing we can do is keep kids informed about contraception and keeping safe.

    ORCON is the best by far for the internet.

  45. Internet is excruciatingly slow and expensive down in New Zealand. I spent 2 years there.

    Read the article on gizmodo called How Bad Do We Really Have It Bandwidh Caps Around the World.

    For anyone who really enjoys the Internet as a primary source of communication, news and entertainment option, Kiwiland is hell.

    • I live in Palmerston North, where like much of NZ we now have fibre to the home. I get 102mb/s down and about 60 up, day and night – in fact until last week all our TV came over fibre. The original poster has a few valid points here, but to be honest having moved from Scotland she’s highlighting a lot of very stereotypical things about Americans abroad.

      • There are unlimited plans for ufb that are somewhat reasonable [~$100/mo], [but more expensive than elsewhere]. Why did it take so long, lots of other places have had this years before. Only reason this happened was this was a government subsidized initiative. Embarrassment no doubt hastened this roll-out.
        Now, cell service, no fully unlimited plans [which are common elsewhere] last time I checked. Cell data is still capped on any plan available in NZ. Drag them into the 21st century [kicking and screaming].

        • I’m pretty sure that I’d posted this info before, I was watching [US] tv online [super bowl or NBA finals] and caught some ads for cell service plans that were far ahead [unlimited calls, txt, and data] for aprox $60.
          I went to look to see what comparable plans [in nz] were. NZ has NO unlimited cell plans. So slow to adopt accepted standards.

  46. “That is how it is with expats…very few actually come here to stay even though they may THINK that they are at the time.”

    This is so hard, I agree. My best expat friends just up and leave town all the time. Most of them seem to leave the entire country. Going out and finding new friends is not easy. It does wear on you after awhile.

  47. This bloke is more positive about the No. 8 wire mentality. They have surely made good use of the Internet for marketing purposes, but actually living and having internet here is tortuous. Expensive and capped! Still! In 2011! I am trying to run an IT business from home here on a limited budget. I could just explode at all the limitations.

    http://exilelifestyle.com/number-8-wire-kiwis-conquer-internet/

    “the big thing holding Kiwis back from their position on top of the online world is their crappy, crappy Internet service.

    The Internet is mostly capped, here. For those of you who don’t know what this means (I didn’t, until I heard about them trying to do it in the States and swiftly being rebuked) is that you generally don’t pay a flat fee for unlimited Internet each month. Instead, you pay for, say, 3 gigs of downloads per month, and once you use that up you either get moved to a DRAMATICALLY slower connection, or your net gets cut off completely (I, unfortunately, am faced with the latter plan).

    The pricing is even worse for mobile plans. It’s been a while since I’ve seen such a dearth of smartphones…it’s just too expensive, and the network too unreliable.

    It’s bad, people. Much worse than most of the 3rd world countries I’ve been to. And it’s a result of a competition-stopping duopoly and one old, crusty cable carrying packets of information along the ocean floor.”

  48. “There is a VERY VERY serious alcoholism problem in this country, not just drinking but “binge” drinking that you usually do not see until college in the States.”

    This is true. According to a new WHO study, Kiwis drink an average of 9.6 litres of pure alcohol each per year, well above the 6.1-litre global average! I have resolved to tape the drunken hoons howling and roaring past my door every Friday and Saturday night. The Ministry of Health’s epidemiology group found that 1 in 7 New Zealanders frank MORE THAN 6 standard drinks (men) and more than 4 standard drinks (women) per drinking occasion.

    I do not leave the house after a certain hour, and avoid going out at certain other times. You’re taking your life in your hands on these roads. The drivers are frightening enough during the day – at night, they are horrifying.

    • I’m New Zealand born and I lived in Australia for now 32 years, Australia also has a drinking culture, and so it is getting worse all over, the key here learn of now the european kids learn to respect alcohol from a young age it’s the western world that for some reason don’t know how to respect alcohol and abuse their bodies, violences, police called out and damage to property, no disciple at home & both parents are working, get back to basis care about your kids welfare and education, employment , having jobs when they finish school or completing university and the worse thing both countries did is got rid of military training bring it back in like Singapore, Israel, Pride, Respect, Honour, New skills, Leadership, Long lasting friendships, Purpose, and the last reason why that all those mentioned above you used in your family, work, sport, community and you can make a differences for others.

  49. Thanks for the truthful yet informative article, it provided my family valuable insight to the kiwi’s new pilot scheme for singaporean.

Comments are closed.