240 thoughts on “Why Are People Leaving NZ?”

1. I understand and I am a Kiwi who feels as you do. The only thing I love about NZ is the landscapes and scenery.

2. Regret – you are very not alone and very not insane. Those of us who post here (and who used to post on expatexposed before the owner moved on) were gobsmacked by these traits and could not stomach them. Their society is f*cked up. There is nothing wrong with you. I hope you set yourself the priority of moving on somewhere else. Even Australia would be better than that. So glad to have left, as long as it took us. We had nothing when we left – sucked off of us, every penny. Had to borrow to leave. A few years on, we have recouped but not as ahead as those who never left in the first place. Set back permanently by moving to New Zealand – but still glad not to be there anymore. Leave, man. Nothing wrong with you.

3. I have lived in NZ for 4 years now and find it incredibly alienating. Kiwis of a similar age range that have any sense or intelligence are overseas. On one hand I am glad I have a job here (left UK during the recession when there were no positions even for qualified people) on the other hand I know I will never advance to the next level in said job as I have no family ties to Kiwis. I have seen people given jobs because they know a certain person or have the same hobbies as someone else, while qualified people are passed by. I would like to be able to buy a house but at the same time would like to keep my health (unlikely to happen in a draughty shack). Driving here you take your life in your hands as they are quite self absorbed “if i crash I can buy a new car” nevermind you might kill someone else and ruin an entire familie’s future. Their general lack of self preservation, especially when it comes to their children is down right sickening “he can play by the rocks next to the sea without me watching him”, the she’ll be alright attitude is maddening. I’m fully sick of being made to feel like I am the one who is strange for not wanting to do any of the following: drive drunk, break the speed limit, take drugs, leave doors unlocked while asleep or play bloody netball. The kiwis that tend to not see the truth of things are the middle/upper middle class. “Daddy’s a lawyer, mum looks after the pet lambs and they pay for everything until i marry the farmer. Then I’ll only continue to work until i have one child, after that I’ll collect gold rings and go for coffees.” Even a university education means little here, they are so distrustful of anyone not from Godzone and often do not have any knowledge outside of their specified field. I’m so glad i found this site, they were starting to make me feel like the insane one.

4. S. Africa sounds awful. Many fleeing saffers seem to just wait out the citizenship period in NZ and then flee onward to Australia. NZ is better than S. Africa. But it’s NOT better than many other countries people emigrate from, duped by the NZ self-promotion.

5. All of those problems are present here in New Zealand the only difference is that the corruption here is covered up and the crime stats are falsified. Read some of the stories on this site and you’ll find out, even car jacking and babies getting stolen from hospital. At least you have security screens and fences in South Africa, most NZ homes don’t even have secure windows and doors.

6. As a complete outsider living what can only be described as an urban war zone in the current South Africa with a failing health / electricity/ education/ water system and one of the highest murder rates in the world, NZ at this moment in time is looking from here like Utopia, how many cars has the average New Zealander had stolen (I’ve lost two) how many times has your house been broken into ( six times, twice cleaned out) and all this whilst I was unemployed without any benefits what so ever.
   Most of our road deaths come from drunken driving and or drunken pedestrians.
   Yes I have a nice house, but I can no longer afford the electricity bill (when we have power)
   Believe me you have no idea what corruption is until you have lived in Africa,here it is an art form from the president down.
   Unfortunately my age and lack of funds will prohibit me and my wife from moving to what seems to be, (even from a distance) a very civilised cultural and inviting country.

   wanabeakiwi

7. Thanks to Calvan and Judith for your comments. I am not sure that any Kiwi editor would accept my writings to be honest because they too are most likely to be similar low life characters as I have described. I have to leave NZ for awhile and travel. It is not easy. there parts of me that want to stay because I do love the natural environment here. But that is all there is here; there’s nothing else and certainly nobody to share or explore it with who is not 65 years old. Judith, I would not even consider a Muslim as a partner but what I have observed is the Muslim men’s manners that are different here compared with NZ men’s. We have nothing else here which is the big problem for NZ women and it is a big reason why they leave.

8. [troll post deleted]

9. Thanks for your comments. I do hope you plans for your kitties and yourself work out. Australia for me, is a start because I have a few connections there and the weather is good there too. I’d like to go to Spain again but I am not sure how much work I would get there at the moment. 25% unemployment in Spain is where it is at so I am not sure that they would want outsiders coming by to ask for jobs!

10. I meant to say…..I am planning to move as well. There are madmen like Gareth Morgan in Auckland who wants all cats killed or kept inside 24/7 because of bird issues. NZ is no good anymore. I love the nature and and the hills but the people here are very frustrating.

11. Contact Air NZ about your pets. You can take them to Europe with you. I would never leave my baby behind if I moved and I am planing to as well.

12. I am a fifth generation New Zealander who feels some sympathy for all people who have posted their disappointments on this site. It makes me feel better to know I am not alone. To be honest, the average population of NZ has little respect or knowledge of higher culture. Mediocrity is appraised and intelligence is mocked or downtrodden. Fineness is scorned and looked down on. I simply have never been able to get along with Kiwis since the day I was born in Blenheim. As luck or bad luck would have it, I came from a different family background where there was classical music, art, performing arts and culture. I was the only child who valued Russian music. Nobody else knew what it was. My father, also a born and bred NZ’r and I always went to NZ Opera, Royal NZ Ballet and NZSO concerts when we could. These organizations are recognized on the world scene. I recommend them although I have not scene a full theatre since the 1990’s. Most individuals who attend those performances are elderly people from the era of NZ when finer things were encouraged, including morality. That has changed.

    NZ’s culture has slumped to something too low and primitive for words in my opinion. The obsession with rugby, the sarcasm towards ballet and opera that I encounter amongst ordinary Kiwis, the xenophobia and the general cultural illiteracy I am met with in too many places of NZ, encourages tall poppy syndrome that NZ is so famous for. NZ people want the best but will crush it down the moment they can. As a result, I have found it very hard to make friends with my own fellow New Zealanders. I try but I have to contain myself often. I find myself in conversation more often with migrant Germans, English, Latins and people from the Middle East the most. Many of my friends are immigrant Muslims. I have been mocked at times by New Zealanders for forming friendships with these people. Another extraordinary thing is that Kiwi people cannot believe I am actually from NZ. They ask me if I am from England or South Africa, simply because I speak properly. They cannot tell me to go back to my own country when they find out my great grandparents emigrated here from Ireland!

    If you do not drink alcohol the whole of NZ assumes you are religious and think there is something wrong with you. Getting drunk and smoking weed is almost the norm these days. I have done neither and I have been mocked for this by New Zealanders who see me as weird. Of course I don’t care what they think but life has been a solitary one in this country. I cannot find any NZ friends who do not drink alcohol. I found some ‘groups’ on the internet such as the Baha’i community but I don’t want religion! If you write ‘social contact – Auckland or Christchurch’ into Google, you get alcohol counselling websites and self-esteem-building courses for women as a response. NZ is a nation of drunks in black trackpants and hoodies and it is a bolt hole for the worst perverts in the world too. Disgusting types come to NZ with the intention of getting their fill from the “most promiscuous women in the world”. I was told that by one Egyptian doctor who came here to do that while leaving his wife and kids back in Egypt. University educated NZ women give away their bodies like unpaid whores and this is how the rest of the world views all NZ women. I went into a cafe in Wellington on Cuba Street and the photography art plastering the walls of that cafe was of prostitutes in corsets in various shades of sepia. This was supposed to celebrate the liberal animal in the NZ woman I suppose. Women’s suffrage activist, Kate Sheppard who made it possible for NZ women to be the first in the world to have the right to vote, would have turned in her grave. In my experience, I have been howled down by other New Zealanders if I say I dislike the kind of low behaviour I see around me too often.I am told I am intolerant and that I need counselling.

    The obsession with rugby in NZ makes me sick. On one hand there are these sickly liberals in politics who ram through laws that ban parents from smacking their kids, while on the other, the whole country wastes money on promoting the violence of rugby to boys as normal and obligatory. I am a single woman – still because there are no decent men in NZ. I feel I have missed out on that side of life. Peter Jackson, director of Lord of the Rings, could have saved a lot of money on orc and troll make up by simply asking 90% of the New Zealand male population to act in his films as they normally do. NZ men are lower than dogs, which is why the non-promiscuous women of NZ have pet dogs in many cases instead of men in their lives. Some may ask why I did not leave NZ many years ago. The truth is,I did not know how to and I could not afford to for various reasons. My circumstances did not permit that. I hope to move to Australia as soon as I can. I do not know if I will want to return to NZ to live.

    • @Farida: I am very sorry to hear about your predicament. You sound like an intelligent, wise, and sensible person. As a Kiwi, why do you suppose New Zealand has evolved the way it has? I am referring mostly to the alcoholism and promiscuity.

      • Firstly, a large number of NZ girls have grown up in dysfunctional families where alcohol abuse or sexual abuse has forced parents apart. Crudity and drinking is the norm for them. They end up living without good male role models. Fathers are never there half the time or if they are, they are irresponsible. Secondly, parents don’t instil self respect into their daughters because they don’t know what that is themselves. They have got residual issues from their own dysfunctional upbringings and sexual abuse. Then there is the lack of education in health and humanities. People do not read. As a result, NZ girls have often grown up with unstable family relationships without love or knowledge of very basic things. This makes them seek love through sex. To add to that, a fashion has developed in the West that encourages women not to view sex as part of commitment. Sex is to be casual not committed or loyal. Casual sex is promoted as a way of showing “maturity”.The fashion seems to be that women must learn to detach their emotions from sexual experiences as a lot of men do. For a woman to be able to do that, she has to get herself drunk first or it would be too emotionally painful to go through. Women in NZ get drunk and have sex with complete strangers often because their peers do it, because they need somebody to meet their needs and cannot find a partner who is any good, because they are lonely, because it gives them short-term feelings of happiness, because they were not loved by their parents, because men have made them feel like whores so they behave like them, and because they are bored with not enough to do. All of the women who go off one-night-standing would probably like a committed relationship but they feel it is not possible because the men of NZ are emotionally incompetent and completely selfish in many cases. They will have drunk, mechanical sex with weird men, then do what the world expects them to do – move on – without tears. It is like a kind of modern stoicism that is very sick. NZ men are are large part of the problem too. They have not been brought up properly with a backbone. They are weak characters who exploit the women who make themselves available to them.

        Of course this kind of promiscuous activity amongst women happens all over the world but in NZ because the population is small, and there are no obvious alternative cultural pursuits around, it is more noticeable. NZ women seem to like copying female stereotypes that the American film industry presents. If something perverse in the female psyche is presented to the average Kiwi woman or her daughter, she will be fascinated with it. The current fashion amongst NZ teen girls, some as young as 12 in the school where I work, is Fifty Shades of Grey. They do not understand the wider connotations of misogyny (perhaps some of them do) but because that book has content that pushes yet another lot of social taboos, for sake of it, ie. showing sexual abuse as entertainment, these girls are into it. These girls will grow up to do casual mechanical sex with 100 men like all of their peers.

        • its wierd – people go on about nz being a great place to bring up children which couldnt be further from the truth. we were horrified. having a teenage girl in london uk was safer and possibilities far greater – i think all parents can agree london isnt an easy place to be a parent. we left nz before our son even got close to that age. its tricky because in some ways son has been thrown under a bus and is being pulling up to global standard in a very short period and i feel a titch guilty about it. then again, light is at the end of the tunnel. in nz they havent even agreed on the tunnel, never mind started work.

        • I think your analysis is extremely perceptive and it is a pity so many “experts” fail to grasp your analysis. It is lamentable that so many young girls grow up without having anyone teach them self respect and so many young boy fail to respect females or themselves.

          I do not know how these trends will reverse themselves except perhaps society will collapse and some natural force such as natural selection will reverse these trends.

        • Funnily enough, nobody seems to have a solution for me when I ask the question:
          “What is it about the layabout guys that make girls and women attracted to them AND how can we make the good men, attractive in the same way?”
          While it is all well and good to talk about “men who abuse women”, the other side of the coin is:
          “women don’t usually put up with abuse that escalates to the physical unless the man is very special to them, so how can we make MORE men special to women, given the reality that women only find a few men worth enduring abuse for?”
          Since, only few men abuse …
          The flip side of domestic abuse against women, is …
          how many women get jailed for violence against their partners/spouses?
          In equal society, NOBODY gets away with hitting someone else where their injuries require treatment by a health professional.

          • Hi P Ray. I think you have a fair question. How do we make boys into good men attractive to girls so they do not end up abused and messed up?

            A few years back, I tried to find a life partner on an internet dating site here. I agreed to meet a certain male who was interested in me. He was much older than me and not attractive but as I am interested in personality above appearance I was willing to have a conversation with this male. His greeting on meeting me under an oak tree in Christchurch went thus: “You got your own house?”

            In the staffroom at school one day, a different male recognised my face from that internet site I had my profile on. He had been interested in me too. Aside from the fact he was the size of Lord Farquad from Shrek, his pick-up line went thus: “I saw you on XYZ Dating site. I’ve got a house.”

            I overheard that same male talking to another female staff member ( who was not interested in him either). Interspersed in his conversation with her were these words that stood stood out like acne: bla bla bla hot; bla bla bla sexy; bla bla bla hot; bla bla bla awesome; bla bla bla hot.

            This guy was the ICT geek technician from the school. He was an example of one of the better kinds of NZ male. I am an untouchable stuck in Paradise surrounded by little trolls like these.

            The culture of the whole country of NZ would have to be completely changed if men are to change and I don’t see that happening to be honest. And because there are few non-layabout guys, the girls have nothing better to go out with. NZ does not have decent men available to go out with. Vibrant, kind clever men rarely exist in NZ. Slugs under wood do though. If men are truly decent, they are never on view, never around or are already married to clever nice women who were fortunate to meet them in Melbourne, the UK or Canada. And by decent, I am talking about emotionally intelligent males. You do not find them in NZ, not even in universities. In fact, some of the most narcissistic, boorish males in NZ are the most educated. One of them – Clayton Weatherston – is in prison for a long time for brutally murdering his girlfriend. NZ men are educated misogynists or dumb as chooks and they rule this country as chooks do. And the women who rule, devalue men’s identity by pandering to ideas that belittle men. It seems that the concept of a man with a heart and soul does not exist in NZ unless he is gay or politically correct in all the most distasteful ways. Somehow, NZ needs to create a climate for new boys which does not “feminise” them but enables and encourages them to become emotionally strong and in charge. Women need men to be in charge in order to respect them. NZ men are floundering pathetic wimps, largely thanks to never having had strong standards growled into them by things called fathers. Women end up rearing their sons alone because their husbands are such horrendous losers. Mothers trying to be fathers, get exhausted and demoralised and the cycle carries right on. Boys are not loved properly in stable environments any more than girls are.

            A friend of mine from Algeria told me his dad had growled at him so he was staying in his room to study English on the internet. He showed me a video clip of the men at the soccer match after the game. They were hyped up and emotional, playing their Middle Eastern music – without a drop of alcohol to fuel it. The passion in those men, you would never find in NZ men. Oh – a correction there, I did see similar passion in males, minus alcohol at the Diwali Festival of lights last year in Christchurch. Spanish tenor, Jose Carreras said he became an opera singer because the judge in the court ordered him to listen to an opera in a jail cell as a punishment for a crime he had committed. Carols Acosta, Cuban-born ballet star, came from abject poverty. His dad said he would learn ballet as discipline to bring him into line for committing crimes as a boy of 8 years. He told Carlos he would “cut off his legs if he did not go to ballet classes”. Boys in NZ need this kind of treatment if they are wallowing in low culture and picking their noses all day. They need to be driven with brute force if necessary, into higher culture which will make them successful, and attractive, with self-esteem, not just in ballet and opera but in other areas like the sciences too.

            I have met males from other countries who have no issues with dancing or education because it is part of their culture. A number of males from Chile and the Middle East I have met through cultural events, show a difference in personality and attitude compared to that of the NZ male. These males have pride in themselves, and don’t see the need to get drunk. They are gentle and well-mannered towards everybody. They can dance without shame at a Latin party and lead female dancers with confidence. It seems inherent in them, not stiff or contrived or “learnt”. No doubt they too would need more education about treating women with respect in some areas of domestic life, but they still, in most cases are more attractive, because they come from cultures which uphold music and the finest arts as normal and desirable. A woman would naturally want to give such a man her best qualities for him being like that.

            NZ men don’t have cultural experiences to make them more whole as people. The men from these other cultures carry substance, self-esteem and general knowledge plus they are well-groomed. They have been educated and find it strange that education in NZ is looked down on by so many Kiwis. These men are self-driven and they show respect for their parents. That is because their parents give them hell if they don’t respect them. They know the poetry of their countries and can quote it. They had to recite the Qran or Hafiz at school in front of everyone. They sit at the internet teaching themselves English language for something to do. It would be a rarity to find an NZ man doing that. An NZ man would be stuck in front of the TV with the rugby on or some hideous XBox game with his dirty socks and beer bottles scattered around the lounge. The other men from the outside are interested in politics and justice. They vote even if the odds are that corruption might be the outcome. They value beauty and nature in many cases. The average NZ man does not. He leaves smashed beer bottles in the Ashley River so kids can’t swim in it. The Chinese Christian migrant dad and his kids, go around picking up all the litter later. Or if the NZ male does value beauty, he wants it in a narcissistic way. He wants an attractive woman who he can use for sex to make himself feel better because he is such a pathetic loser. There is no concept of intimacy in the brain of an NZ man. Other countries have low men as I am describing as well but it seems they do have more of the better kinds of men as well. NZ is predominantly made up of low men who thinking farting and belching in public is so funny. Other countries have a wider spread of male identities which makes it less glaringly obvious.

            There is the issue with NZ parents not rearing their boys properly. They think it is funny when their sons fart openly and make dirty comments about women. NZ TV has parental advisors like Nigel Latter trying to get through to parents how to raise their kids better. It will rarely sink in. This is not the way to bring about the changes in my opinion. NZ is a huge sewerage pond. This is because the culture promoted in NZ is empty and mono if it is anything. It is all hot air – gas rather than rocks – all talk about “being positive” for what reason? To change the men of NZ in the future, the future government would have to create incentives to parents so they know how to drive their boys the right way because truth is, parents do not know what decent and high culture is. The last time ballet and opera was aired on TV was 1986. I remember that time. I talk about that because I like the beauty of it. Men who like it are nice people as well. They usually come from outside NZ. NZ TV today, consists of endless home improvement, foodie and travel programs which often shows what the rest of the world has to offer since NZ does not unless you are stinking rich. The obsession with primitive culture in NZ coupled with drinking bucketfuls of beer as the best thing on Earth is not funny, and it has to be changed. Alcohol is shown on TV too much. It is too cheap and easy to access. The boys’ and men’s club peer beer group has to be changed. To do that, there have to be other pursuits that are presented as better and more lucrative to boys and their parents. Alcohol has to be made as the lowest of the low. It won’t happen while the government makes piles out of alcohol taxes of course.

            Etiquette and good manners need to be taught to boys. A serious complaint from visitors who come to NZ is of the roughness and lowness seen amongst NZ children and teens. It is obvious because NZ has a small population and that population is dominated by the kind of low culture you would normally see spread out more in another country – perhaps. I think people from the outside feel it more because lowness is all that seems to be there. Boys (and girls) are brought up with the idea that it is normal to be rough, because “they are expressing themselves” and “showing their identity”. That’s American media culture perhaps and its translation into the NZ identities of kids. It is ugly. People who push and shove are horrible narcissistic types from the lowest backgrounds. This is being promoted in NZ families with layabout boys as normal even expected. I reprimanded two 15 year old boys at school yesterday, for merely play-fighting in class and throwing pencils and water around. They were surprised because a few other teachers turn a blind eye. I told these boys that NZ has one of the most violent cultures in the world for its population size. It begins with so-called pushing and shoving as a joke in class. They were told it was ugly, not attractive and not civilised and that no man should behave that way. They thought I was strange to say that. No boy from an Aisan or Middle Eastern family in NZ would have behaved like that as a general rule.

            Layabout guys attract girls here because they can. There are not enough men in NZ around to force competition through higher standards. Even educated men get drunk at university and trash the new toilet blocks at Canterbury University just after they have been built and boast about it. The boys in NZ follow the low culture of American media that shows vandalism and destruction of art or beauty as powerful and exciting. NZ males like to destroy beauty and they sneer at anyone who finds their attitudes here offensive. NZ males view girls as there to be used and abused as one sees in some of the movies like Too Fast Too Furious. I have heard conversations amongst boys in the schools where they clearly identify with the media that they are playing with as reality. That is what Kiwi boys do. They destroy the hearts and trust of any better NZ girls out there who are unfortunate enough to land up in a relationship with such males. And it is not just rubbish boys and men from the scum pond in black hoodies who are like that either. University males are into porn as much as rubbish types from South Auckland or cow-cockies of Invercargil are. NZ men, many of them who work on farms, torture animals as a joke. Parents are allowing low behaviour to develop while they wean their baby sons on Fanta and view it as normal. Why? Because this country is so busy addressing the needs of minority groups – the homosexual and racially persecuted population – that it has overlooked the epic needs of the ignorant, great-unwashed male population and their toilet-brained mothers and fathers and grandparents who are dying their hair plum and drinking grog as a pastime. As a result, a backlash has been created amongst the ignorant oafs and there is more homophobia, more aggression than ever before. There is even less respect for women and there are no men in NZ for good women to deserve. That is because the government does nothing about making higher culture and basic manners are viewed as seriously important. Rules are just not even there.

            People are always saying to NZ women who are crying their eyes out after yet another break up with an incompetent invertebrate: “Oh but you deserve so much better!” In NZ, there is NOTHING better to deserve. Women have to leave the country if they feel they deserve better. You cannot meet anyone here! It is not here on this soil, not in the university, not on the farm, not on the street, not over the counter in a shop, not at the dance party, not at church (that is even worse!) not in the bar and certainly not on internet dating. God. You find rapists out of prison on the internet. You find them in the churches of NZ too! Psychotherapists are paedophiles in this country! If decency is there, it is 65 years old or widowed, and too arthritic to dance. The younger NZ male is always divorced: A) from his 2 or 3 girlfriends and kids B) from anything that resembles decency. He does not know what that is. Anything that suggests intelligence or sensitivity is labelled ‘gay’ whether it be ballet or fruit and vegetables. Those educated men are so busy with their books, they don’t have time for intimacy. They are Mr. Kazabon types with distorted minds.

            Of course this is not limited to NZ, but it is certainly rife amongst NZ men, both young and old. You can go pig-hunting on the West Coast of the South Island but you don’t have to hunt for male scum at all.

            In NZ schools there is this enormous promotion of sport as the all and end all of NZ cultural identity, especially for the boys. Andrew McNaughton who’s a lecturer in Science Communications at Otago University touches on the problem in his creative fiction: http://assets.royalsociety.org.nz/media/AlwaysLookBehindontheTightrope_AndrewMcNaughton_37.pdf

          • What an incredibly lucid, well-written post.

            Please consider submitting this to various NZ publications, if for no other reason than to share the responses you get with the expat community.

          • Completely agree with all that and noticed the same thing. Even the ones from so-called “better families” (such as these are in NZ) are just….low. They don’t know how to treat women. And because so many of the men leave for jobs abroad, the women are desperate and take anything they can get. The men are misogynistic. Throwback attitudes without the old-style courtesy to go with them. Porn and dope, none of them seem to escape being addicted to that. They seem to fear not being seen as “respect-worthy men” and overcompensate in every respect. They won’t do housework. They’re mostly slobs. They all seem to resent women in a deep, vicious knee-jerk way that has no sense to it. They seem to want to put women in their place, or see them as a dangerous alien species at the very least. Warning to expat women – they dissemble and hide some of their worst stuff until they have you on the hook, as well. They’re cavemen, basically. Top of the Lake – it was too real for me to be able to sit through it. Beyond hope, for the most part, as far as finding a Kiwi who is up to the evolutionary level of your average UK, European, Canadian or American man. And no, I wouldn’t hook up with some Muslim either because of a dearth of Kiwis. Not a kind religion vis a vis women. There are millions of civilized and available men outside of NZ, India and the Middle East.

          • @flamencoreb
            Unfortunately, you lost me at It is not here on this soil, not in the university, not on the farm, not on the street, not over the counter in a shop, not at the dance party, not at church (that is even worse!) not in the bar and certainly not on internet dating (that decent men can be found).
            Since there are quite a few foreigners in those places I’d wager.

            Again, I put it down to the fact that there is an undercurrent of racism against Asian males(even the kiwi ones), in that, in light of the few crimes that the media publish regarding some of the criminal minded …
            pretty much the Asian males are regarded as either “Nai Yin Xue” or “Akshay Anand Chand”.

            But you did praise them for their family values … in other words, and this nuance of your writings is something you need to reconsider:
            They’re respected … but NOT desired.
            I suspect relationships based solely around respect but not desire … don’t go the distance.
            “We grew apart” are the words …

          • @flamencoreb
            No doubt they too would need more education about treating women with respect in some areas of domestic life, but they still, in most cases are more attractive, because they come from cultures which uphold music and the finest arts as normal and desirable. A woman would naturally want to give such a man her best qualities for him being like that.
            Oh whoops, I missed that … but at the same time, current marriage statistics don’t bear that out.
            Then again, I come from a family where married parents shared domestic duties when I was growing up … so the first part of the sentence really is, to me, hitting a bum note.
            Both parents are important, stable families encourage the development of productive and capable people …
            but you can only have that continue in a society where reciprocation exists.
            If people have a stake where they are, they will defend it.
            On the other hand, too many examples of the layabouts getting ahead … creates more of the same.
            “You get more of what you reward, and less of what you punish” is the term, I believe.

        • My experience was that the women actively chased away the men who wanted to help in the kitchen.
          I guess growing up the kiwi guys learn that lesson fast.
          So it’s really a question of “what were they taught from young?”
          It’s difficult to change a society, when doing things the way people say they want things done … is shown through their actions, that they really don’t want it done, the way they say.

        • [Deleted, you didn’t read the comments guidelines – ‘don’t like it leave’ etc. Admin]

    • I understand how you feel Farida. I literally feel crushed by the narrowness and lack of individuality or any hint of eccentricity among New Zealander’s. In general they seem to be all clones and conformers, afraid to be themselves, or to appear different, or stand out in any way. I blame it on all the sheep.

      I found the Nelson area to be different, lots of creative people. Maybe you’ll find what you are looking for in Melbourne. Good luck.

    • The only people allowed to be clever in NZ are the All Blacks . Rugby was the be all and end all growing up there. Minor sports ( all others ) were merely tolerated. I grew to hate everything about it.
      I made good my escape in 2008 and a recent visit back to settle things only confirmed the rightness of my decision.
      It is a stifling place built up on the myths of fairness and individuality but lacks either.
      The idea of the hard working ,hard drinking but resourceful Kiwi joker may have had relevance into the 1960’s but seems to have been supplanted by a parody of the same and the kids are bereft of any useful role models of either gender. Their cultural references are either US Gangsta or stoned Eurotrash or whatever else is new from the US.
      Halloween in NZ, – what’s next , Thanksgiving?

      Australia is simply easier , bigger and not depressing. The Australians can be easily as boorish as my fellow NZ’rs but the quality of living is infinitely better and the houses are nicer and more affordable than some cold timber box in a place like Hastings or Matamata where Auckland’s new economic migrants are forced to live. God help them!

      I even preferred South Africa despite all it’s problems and would happily live in the Western Cape if it were possible.
      Most South Africans impressed me with their slighly old-world manners and generally superb English . The men were careful not to swear around the women , but when separate could curse beautifully. Maybe I was spoiled by the somwhat liberal and progressive Western Cape types though , and I did also meet real rooineks in The Orange Free State who could have fitted in easily in rural NZ. Their first encouters with Maori would probably be very educational ,if slightly bruising.
      Apart from the crime and dysfunctional apperatus of state the place is stunningly beautiful and the weather is mostly good. The people are also nice when they’re not trying to rob you too.
      The same applies to Namibia which is a relatively large country with a small population.
      It has all the amenties and better roads despite having the usual dysfunctional and corrupt African style of Government. Kind of puts the old NZ small tax base rationalization/ excuse in a different light. The malls in Windhoek are possibly better than Auckland.
      But they lack the political will to educate the majority of their population and improve their living conditions. Most of the spare cash ( lots of it ! ) goes on the ever evolving Presidential Palace the Chinese are building there. A folly of epic proportions!

      NZ had an excuse for being insular and boring once, but not now. I shall never return to live apart from the odd holiday of short duration.
      I’m an ex NZ’er , part Maori, married to a South African , and yes , I actually played Rugby well at school but was an even better athlete. Scant recognition there though.
      Mediocrity was a thing to be cultivated in all other areas except ,off course, Rugby.

      • myths of fairness and individuality

        Merit is undervalued [fairness] and conformity is overvalued [individuality].
        Stiffing environment that resists advancement or improvement.

    • I appreciate much of what you say, but, i do however take exception to your comments on the repeal and changes to section 59a of the crimes act.
      The law as it was written stated that a parent could use “justifiable force” in relation to a defence of abuse of a minor. This meant if their parent had used physical force to beat or otherwise discipline them they could use that as a defence in a court of law.
      This is as we can all agree just simply BullS**t.
      59A of the act was simply changed to remove this defence, and to lead to a breaking of the horrendous record we have in this country of child abuse. No child should be disciplined with physical force- ever.
      to put it simply, we have laws that prevent and adult assaulting another adult. It’s called assault for a reason, yet we didn’t extend to a child the same protection under law. The change does now afford that protection, and gives those whose job it is to protect and serve the real ability to protect and serve everyone, including minors.

      Since the change, No parent has been prosecuted for simply giving a light spank, though IMO that is unnecessary. And no child has been able to hold a parent to ransom with threats of going to to the police.
      Yes there is still an appalling level of violence directed towards children, but it will take more than 10 years to change what was once acceptable in the eyes of many.

13. edward james police informant came here to upset australians

14. the reason there is so much positive spin, i conclude after going the distance, is that there are a lot of miserable migs in denial – miseery loves company – and the govt is very very careful to balance the negatives with stuff that is purely made up!!! you will notice the number of negaive blogs that are shut down/ removed…?

    as for people being nice, well, as long as you dont need anything serious. as soon as you are in the shit you are in deep and very far away from help. there is nothing as predatory as a new zealander on the scent of your money/ life. going without the expectation of reciprocity/ community integration helps.

15. I returned to New Zealand after living in Australia for several years, just to see if the grass really was greener on the other side. Five months later, I was back in Oz.

    Main things I found to be sub-optimal about the land of the long white cloud?

    1) Weather – It’s a bit spurious to blame NZ for something it can’t help, but the weather can be really ordinary. I can only speak for Auckland and Hamilton but there are long bouts where it’s damn cold, and often in a “damp, miserable, psychologically-destroying” kind of way. It seems like the overcast weather can hang around for weeks at a time.

    2) Drivers – Shite drivers are almost as numerous as there are cars on the planet, but there is a particular type of aggressive, impatient and dangerous driver that frequently inhabits New Zealand’s ugly labyrinth of roads, motorways and highways. They slightly outdo Australia’s Queensland drivers… and that is really saying something.

    3) Cost of living – The food must contain platinum, the electricity must flow through gold wires, the houses must sit on little diamond mines, the fuel must come from a single deep-sea well in the middle of the pacific ocean and everything else must have been commissioned by royal artists and designers. How else can one explain the huge mark-up of commodities and consumables in New Zealand? Except secondhand cars – Not dirt cheap, just less expensive.

    4) I found a lot of rubbish lying along roadsides and in built-up areas, belying the image that New Zealand tries to export to the rest of the world as being “clean & green”. Maybe the outlying country and wilderness areas are truly worthy of that title. To be fair, there is a big lack of respect for keeping the environment tidy in Australia too.

    New Zealand is a nice country, but especially on points one and three above, Australia just edges it out enough to make it my long-term home.

16. NZ Or UK.
    first of all sorry if there some of my English is not that perfect.

    I’m from Asia living in NZ Auckland for a last 10 yrs.and be come a New Zealand Citizenship.

    Its was so hard to get a job., not enough education for an adult an all the kids. Too lay back, too easy rich people very snob and poor people just out of the mind especially from South Auckland. Too many murder.
    Too many Asians.

    people I know it s sound weird but yeah even my self think its \too many!!
    Kiwi gal not make up no classy only some one them are.

    Now I am in UK.. English people just different attitude . they nice and polite, classy, friendly gentlemen , good education. very good place to live. its not like perfect but its okay so far. Very good place to Educated the kids all my kids got more Manner compare to Kiwi school.

    I do love Nz still but just thinking that too many competition economic not so good nd everything is too dear.

    LOveee shopping in UK!!! its a bigger world here the way people dress and talk so nice and polite so far.

    All in my Asian opinion. I live in both country. There are no right and wrong here.

17. Hi,

    I settled in NZ from the US about 4 years ago. I lived in the US for 15 years but came here for family ties.

    My children loved the schools here, no stress like US. But I personally would have liked to have seen them challenged a bit. Not like US but a midway. Can’t have it all can we? The country is beautiful, scenic, I met decent kind people always.

    The downside I was unable to get a job despite good qualifications. 2010-11 when I moved a lot of people also moved from Christchurch due to earthquakes. Despite family I felt lost because I was not used to a quite life and everything was very silent here. Tried volunteering in schools etc but still could not overcome the feeling of being lost.

    There are pros and cons, but what did not work for me could work for you. I am planning to return, so putting my daughter to SAT exams. Do not want to pull her out in the last year. Another thing if you come from the US and have children with the intention of returning back, realised that the academic year ends different in both countries and also the education system is different, the student will while a little time till college begins or the younger ones will suffer to catch up in high school given only half a year.

    In short. If U are coming with children chalk out you plans before hand if returning back. Otherwise beautiful country if you like the countryside and afford the expenses without working. Thank fully my husband still works in technology on line with his US company.

    • Totally understand what you mean.

18. Yes jobs are less and business competition is more, but I disagree on the pollution or other bad points mentioned, as those problems are there in every country in this world but nz has it less and has a support system to correct that which most countries do not have. Drugs, alcohol, pregnancy, gangs are the present growing up peer pressure trends among teenagers worldwide. But nz has it far less.

    • Everything you say there is simply your opinion. Please can you find some hard facts to back it up, we only deal in reality on this site.
      In the meantime perhaps you can try going without the Kool-Aid for a while and see if your perspective changes.

19. What ever violence and stuff

    • pls what of the medical doctors in NZ, how is their standard of living

20. thanks for your interest. the main reason for writing a book is to clearly develop the true line life in nz follows. we have lived in many countries, being a mig is a challenge everytime, but the life we led in nz was different. shite happens there that beggars belief, and its the lazy ‘she’ll be alright’ bit that keeps it going.

    people want nirvana, always will. nz provides an escapist possibility for most of the world and team nz is very good at nurturing that image, its hard to understand how the govt of nz hasnt been pulled up short for pumping out total crap. i accept for many, dipping in and leaving post holiday, most remains unknown. except for the occassional european backpacker who needs to understand that the glass is half full of shite and that is why they were assaulted/ killed/robbed etc, not that it was some karmic inevitability.

21. we bought the bull and took london money, global credentials and kids to nz. lived on one of the best streets in the country. had access to the ‘best’ of everything. left 2 years ago after 6 greusome years that felt like a thousand+. was back last year for 3 weeks and the only thing i missed was my local cinema, a small luxurious foreign film hangout that i have failed to replicate elsewhere. are we in any way better off for our time? i made money in property (wasnt going to leave broke as most do) but small thrill as my former london home is now worth more than double what we sold it for. staying put in london and scratching my arse all day i’d have made a higher profit margin than i did living and working in the most stressful and ungratifying work environment imaginable.

    dont get me started on education or sports.

    the long term health consequence to our family has been huge – when we went as healthy people we did not anticipate being made into patients and that the medical care we has access to with our priavte insurance just wasnt going to do the job. as for the emo shite that spun around us, it was limitless, and while new zealanders seem to get some kind of gratification from it we couldnt understand or share their interest. we had some very, very sad times in nz, too many of them shared through teen community etc. highly disfunctional place and money cannot protect you or your children. we were friendly with a family of south africans who happily moved back to johannesburg, armpit of the universe, and are nothing but thrilled 2 years on!!! i feel for people who cannot afford to leave, or think they cannot. the whole nz thing comes with an overwhelming sense of failure on top of everything else.

    now that i have had space and time to calm down am putting pen to paper and with a little luck one day people will be able to buy the book. it will be an eye opener.

    • Thank you so much for sharing that with us. Sounds like you had quite a time of it in New Zealand and are very relieved to have left.

      When you feel able to say more would you consider writing a migrant tale for us? there’s a lot that people could learn from you, and you could give support and encouragement to others going through the same problems. You may also find it therapeutic to unload your thoughts somewhere where you’re not going to be criticized or ridiculed for doing so, that can happen on some of the forums can’t it.

    • Thank you Peachy for your honest review. We are New Zealanders and have been living in Aus for the past 10 years. Since the birth of our first child 2 years ago I have been feeling very homesick and a longing to move back. You have just reminded me of why we came here in the first place, I think a holiday back home will do instead! Thanks again! 🙂

    • Completely agree, Peachy, and please write that book. I lost my health (permanently – and the doctors back home can’t believe what the Kiwi doctors didn’t have the funds or good sense to do, in NZ) and all my money and progress in life to date in that sh** country. I will never recover any of that. Money and health are just for starters. My kids were psychologically changed for the bad by living there. So was I. Hungry, pinheaded savages. That’s all I can say. I hope it sinks under the sea. Apologies to the nice ones. We did meet a small number of those.

    • I must say that I am shocked that I haven’t found all those comments before we moved to NZ and I have to agree totally with all those experiences. I am German, but have lived for 13 years in South Africa and as we have moved there we have felt home from the first day. Here I wanted to get into the next plan after a few weeks. But I just heard that I have to give NZ time to adapt. Unfortunately I only could figure out, that I need to give up myself to get along with NZ and the people and have to live in depression. This I can’t accept. I also have to admit that there are a few really nice people in that country, but most NZers are just brain washed and can’t accept poeple who don’t agree with everything of the NZ-hymn. We are here now 18 months and have regret to move to this country. We rather move back to South Africa, where we have to deal with the nonsense of that coverment, but feel welcome and can talk to mindopen peoples. There we have been happy in our heart, here we are heartbroken.

22. I’ll put my opinions of New Zealand up, my personal opinion.

    I met a girl in 2011 we both lived in the UK, her British family moved to NZ in 03/04, I paid for us both to go over and visit her family as she had not seen them for a long time, nice holiday, she saw her family I met them, everyone’s a winner

    Right….. Wrong

    It was meant to be a holiday and a chance to meet her family, what it actually turned out to be was a 6 week long sales pitch to get me to move there.

    I am pretty well travelled and because I didn’t drop to my knees with admiration as soon as I stepped off the plane her family didn’t like it, it was hell.

    The expats/kiwi wanna-bees – there are some nice people, out there but I found that all I got told was how nice NZ was and how bad the UK is, it was like constant self justification to why they had moved. Very clicky and you either love it or they don’t accept you.

    The cost of living – I took £4000 with us to use as spending money and we RAN OUT of money with a few days left to spare, the cost of a beer, cigarettes, chocolate, food, we stayed with her relatives ( that’s another story )

    Criticism – now here in the UK, we generally talk about how shit the country is, but as I have read on here kiwis or kiwi wanna-bees cannot take any criticism for NZ.

    Housing – I work In The UK building trade, seriously I cannot justify the prices for property in NZ, they do seem very low quality

    Jobs – I did get offered 4/5 Jobs while I was there but the cost of living compared to the wages were poor I was offered around $25/35 per hour, my partner at the time was 25 no qualifications nothing, so I’m not sure how she would/will get on.

    Lifestyle – I enjoy fishing/golf/hunting/most sports but not to keen on rugby, I found myself sat watching the grass grow so I could cut it out there, things were very expensive in the activity lifestyle, the rugby obsession is strange, I actually went to the rugby with a family that were mad for the team but didn’t understand the rules????

    The women – I’m sorry, this might just be the type I was with at the time, most of the women I met were very dominating, whiny, big and not very good looking, I felt the men were expected to look after the women and do as they were told, under the thumb.

    It was all a little keeping up with the jones and very 2 faced, I saw a lot of back stabbing

    I found the whole experience a little too forced, a bit false, plastic if you like.

    I was a little unsure if it was ‘is it me syndrome’ but I think reading comments on here has helped a lot.

    Thanks,

    • “The expats/kiwi wanna-bees – there are some nice people, out there but I found that all I got told was how nice NZ was and how bad the UK is” Same with Americans. The Kiwi wannabe Americans only want to hear how bad it is back in America to justify their own life choices. They won’t look at New Zealand with honest eyes. As for the battle of the sexes, as a woman, I found the men were really backward, as in, 20 years behind the times menacing farmer sorts with no social filters, and there was a great deal of “natural” cultural hostility between the sexes, for no good reason. They fulfilled their roles with little intimacy and a lot of power struggling. Had a Kiwi man for awhile – the experience with him and his family did not disabuse me of this observation but reinforced it. So – no thanks, no Kiwis for me.

23. ok, here’s the best impression i can offer. i am a new zealander, with a kiwi mother and an english father. i was raised in west auckland and moved around in the areas known as oratia, karekare, piha, glen eden and eventually moved to ponSNOBBY in my early teens. i left the country at age 15, i’m 19 now, living in australia.

    new zealand is or isn’t a shithole depending on where you live inside it, who you are, where you’re from and what you do for a living. growing up was quite tough – being in a country now where people are generally happier is an amazing change. there are some insights a 19 year old cannot account for, so i leave those to what i have learned from my friends and family. but here goes.

    new zealand is a country where you WILL be picked on for standing up, where you WILL be assaulted, bullied or otherwise harrased by the police, gangs, various social structures (the insane lesbian/femmie) and even the school children for standing out or being different.
    for those with average incomes (food service, cleaning, labour, administrative services, ect.) life is actually rather tough. don’t expect to be buying that twenty grand car you always wanted anytime soon. auckland and indeed most of new zealand has crime and poverty statistics that, while considerably higher per capita than australia or canada, are not the whole picture. the new zealand police force is plagued by rampant unprofessionalism, corruption, “cronyism”, and a disregard for their own behavior. as such, more crime goes unnoticed and unresponded to than in Australia or canada. people in the upper/middle class are so separated from the rest of society that they lack any sense of their poorer peers suffering, and so the systems and processes upheld by these people responds to such in an out of touch and unrealistic manner. like prosecuting a known serial pedophile with just 5 years jail time, and giving a man who killed somebody trying to defend his son something akin to 10-15 years. the child abuse is EXTREMELY widespread and again, i myself was aware of countless cases, usually perpetrated by our resident islander population, that went unpunished and completely forgotten. the social structures in place are often at total (and violent) odds with one another. while the fishing company sealord mass trawls the ocean bed just a few miles off the coast, and independant Maori settlement is forbidden from starting a fucking clam farm. cases of such stupidity and mismanagement persist no matter where one chooses to live within the country. the government seems a totalitarian oligarchy with no realistic sense of cause and effect and as such often pursue pointless, money wasting legal projects that only magnify the crime and corruption slowly seeping throughout the country. an immigration policy of blatant ignorance has allowed masses of violent, uneducated pacific islanders to take root in new zealand, (while european, asian and middle eastern immigrants with degrees and money are often refused entry). Auckland now has the largest population of pacific islanders anywhere in the world. they are themselves a major problem – even being at 5 different schools in new zealand, of varying levels of wealth and education, i often witnesses students who were not islanders, pakeha, maori, korean, indian, even somalian, being harrassed, attacked, and racially slanted. this also occurs in the adult world – you don’t need to spend a lifetime in NZ to hear about how ms. talofa put her baby in the dryer and killed it or how an elderly indian man was bashed to death in the middle of west coast road for refusing a drunken samoan entry to his taxi. this has created a racist culture, where indian/asian populations are highly suspicious of said folk, where pakeha regard anybody with coloured skin as a nazi socialite would a jew in 40’s germany, and where maori communities feel outright hostility towards everyone for such stupidity.

    if you have hopes, dreams, ambitions, a high standard of living, you are not racist, dislike violence, dislike goverment corruption, surveillance and cronyism, if you want to raise children safely and have disposable income, be VERY careful about your choice to move to new zealand. while a backpacker on a working holiday can certainly enjoy 6 months free of trouble while skiing in otago, or a lifestyle liver with a weighty bank account can enjoy walking the misty mountains from his bach without threat, a family looking for a safe and profitable place to start buisness or raise children will want to choose somewhere better
    (like australia?). basically, if you want to involve yourself in it’s structures, prepare to be dissapointed. if you want to gaze down your navel at a fucking mountain all day, i’m sure you’ll be fine, but for the sake of your life and how you live it, heed my fucking words.

    • Great wrods McCarthy…hear hear!!!

24. CAN SOMEONE PLS TELL THE TRUTH ABOUT NZ IS IT A PARADISE OR IS IT A SLUM WHATS THE TRUE STORY WHY THE MIXED IMPRESSIONS?

    • It is a paradise like in a picture post card. Beautiful, well managed and corruption, pollution free. Good quality of life, good foods in their malls, great out door lifestyle etc. Gr8 country.
      The only problems are high cost of living, bus and rail tickets are expensive, shopping is expensive, I guess it is but natural as this country is in a far corner of the world and bringing goods in shipping containers are quite expensive.
      AND the lack of jobs and a weak business environment.
      And yes , take professional consultation of lawyers, electricians, plumbers etc, only by asking friends for good references.

      • Lack of jobs, a weak business environment and expensive, yet it looks great. There’s an old saying in NZ – “you can’t eat the scenery.” You’ve only been in NZ for 2 months so are still in the honeymoon period, you’ve yet to go through a NZ winter for instance. Read our Migrant Tales for other people’s experiences, you may find it a comfort to know you’re not alone in the coming months.

        Some of the recurrent themes we’re seeing are

        Low salaries
        Problems finding work, overseas qualifications not recognised by Kiwi employers
        Xenophobia, racism, bigotry and discrimination
        Expensive, poor quality accommodation
        Problems with the education standards
        A lackadaisical attitude towards safety and security
        Feeling that NZ is actively mis-sold to outsiders
        Isolation, missing family, friends, old lifestyles etc.
        Crime and a frustration with the way its dealt with
        High cost of living -especially food, “Rip off NZ” etc.
        Lack of culture
        Dangerous roads and drivers, drinking and driving, hoons
        No future for kids, older kids feel isolated and cut-off from friends and family, no support networks.
        Bullying problems in schools and workplaces, harden-up attitude, not knowing where to turn for effective counselling services
        The ‘Kiwi way’, ‘WWINZ’ (won’t work in NZ) small mindedness, #8 wire mentality, etc.

    • New Zealand would be a great country if you had a few million dollars in the bank. Iconic scenery and genuinely friendly people. I originally came here from the UK 5 years ago and have been back and forward since. I will be going home shortly for the last time and the main reason is housing. It is so overpriced it’s not funny. Why would anyone want to put down $600,000+ for a antique wooden shack with an ugly corrugated tin roof , in winter it is FREEZING (no such thing as central heating or double glazing)….cold, damp and noisy…..really depressing going to a cold bed every night to the smell of damp. Another thing are the driving “standards”…appalling number of drink drivers and badly maintained vehicles…walk up any street and be amazed at how many cars have bald tyres or other obvious defects. Planning permission has been granted to build a 15 STORY brothel right outside Sky City…..horrid. Wages are pitifully low for most jobs and there is no tax threshold, you are taxed on EVERY dollar you earn. Internet is the worst, horrid lag spikes, always dropping connections, often runs at dialup speeds in auckland. Food in general is very expensive.

    • Read my comments Kerry..you will get my truth. Of course its mixed opinion and ideas…we are all different. On the whole, if you are intelligent, like to dance, love good food, hate muscle sports, hunting and social ignorance….DO NOT MOVE TO NZ…please have the patients to look some where else. This may not be possible as the world is slowly going down the toilet…NZ may go down a little slower..but its heading that way.

25. I read somewhere that drug problems were rife in NZ and that about 25% of Aucklanders smoke weed on a regular basis.
    I took a look at emigrating to NZ a few years back (an acquaintance had moved out there) but it seemed very much a case of being shuttled into “new development” (ie characterless) housing and very much the “hard sell”…hmmm. Also I felt it would be an awful long way to be from anyone who knew me if anything went wrong…the acquaintance I spoke of has had to travel (even sometimes to the UK) for work, is a habitual weed-smoker, and has few friends (to be honest parts of the UK can be conducive to this as well…which is why I prefer to live in London…more choice).

26. Comments are now open again on this thread.

    Why are people still leaving NZ?

27. Every day’s a slow day at BOI College, where most of the “students” are high…most of the time
    http://www.northernadvocate.co.nz/local/news/crackdown-on-drugs/3919587/

28. Thanks for the link.

    We used to have a button on our original site, thanks for reminding us how useful it was. We’re on it…

29. Interesting discussion on this forum. Kiwis are overpopulating the Gold Coast, and being insulted by their relatives back home for having abandoned ship – and there is an invitation in the works, for Mexicans to come to New Zealand? Like any American, I’d sure welcome some Mexican cuisine down here, but I hate that they would not know what they are in for until it was too late. Gang, you ought to put a Google translate button on your site!
    http://www.realwomen.co.nz/component/option,com_fireboard/Itemid,60/func,view/id,19039/catid,2/limit,8/limitstart,0/

30. NZ is a horrible gangsters paradaise, most live in absolute poverty.

    Never go back there

31. All in all NZ has great potential!

    ‘F*ck off!’

    New Zealands it’s erm promising?

    ‘F*cken Dreamer!’

    We f*cked it right up?
    
    ‘Thats more like it’

    What we have done since the 80’s has enabled a number of rich New Zealanders to expand their wealth and diminish others. Furthermore, New Zealanders are (and I hate to say it) pretty right wing and conservative in thought. Even Labour never had the balls last time around to really address the pressing issues we face.

    Simply because they were totally poll obsessed and of course the really started this madness in the first place. The influence of Australian PR companies and the dodgey influence of groups like the Business Roundtable and the Exclusive Brethrens makes for an awful lot of hidden and often foreign influence. Our media is by and large pretty right wing and our major radio stations are by far the worst. Our Television stations are utter shite. I remember the quality of programming when I was a kid compared to the trash TV1 (our supposed ‘flag bearing’ station) dishes up.

    State Owned Enterprises have encouraged a by the numbers ‘ratings’ driven madness that thrives right across the state sector. This means that returning and skilled workers in particularly in social services are considered over qualified for what amounts to pay demands.

    The result is that we are sadly a country with a lot of ‘flash’ but no real substance. We have high costs and little social innovation. Our river’s and countryside are being raped and our clean green image is a total and utter joke. Its all very, very, very sad. People leave for farther shores because basically they are treated better. People who like NZ and return tend to be people who have made a hell of a lot of dosh with foreign currency. Or have family or a good job to return back too.

    The latter seem somewhat in the minority.

    What I have mentioned is the utter reversal of what New Zealand could be. But New Zealanders are either to scared too acknowledge what we have become and or actually believe banal ‘we are the greatest country in the world sentiment’ the people who tend to say that are generally living rather high on the hog as I have said.

    Such a shame. Theres so much we could do!

32. What unique opportunities exist for children in New Zealand outside of a) studying some creature or plant that exists here and nowhere else? b) special genetic work on sheep farms? c) work in composite materials for yachts and surfboards? Those are the only “unique” opportunities I have heard people speak of. Sex work is legal and meth labs seem to be all over the place, but I would not want my children becoming involved in those activities. The attitude towards these is one big shrug, which in my opinion does not scare enough people out of trying them. I do not consider myself rigidly moralistic, but in truth, a certain percentage of people in society will stay straight because the risk is not worth it. The moral attitudes here have created a particular climate wherein a higher than customary percentage of people try to get away with things, and they do. It’s the anti-Singapore.

33. Well it is sad to hear so many negative comments, because they reflect lives…yes there are cold and grotty homes here like anywhere else in the world from my experience. You can always find a bad job anywhere. I suspect you need to look for the options as they do exist and I know people living their dream here. For example schooling…some unique opportunities for children.

    Yes there are negatives here like anywhere however i’m sure you found them all where you came from as well. As someone with average abilities I came here and made it work on a level which would have been harder overseas to achieve…makes me wonder why so many can’t.

    • Tiggers…Because its subtly racist and closed minded.

    • so what was the solution for you then, just interested to know , I like your coment !

34. Anon, you must be the 20-year-old?

35. NZ is awesome and a great place to live.

    These negative comments re:NZ were clearly written by immature teenagers and disenfranchised short, fat men from middle management.

    I love this country, and if you think so little of NZ then I support your decision to live in all the other problem-free countries of the world.

    PS. Kia Kaha Christchurch.

    • Anon…yes you are from Christchurch. Mmm problem free…. like insane level of car violence, white collar corruption, poor low paid communities (one family was found living on the Brighton Beach in the Winter!), a McDonalds on every corner, shopping malls a plenty, over conservatism, poor bus service, no decent cafes, closed by 8.00 (OK sorry new law is closed by 11.00 and they call this a city?!)…enough said…I am an educated, very fit, well traveled man…just not your average KIWI…glad to say.

    • NZ is awesome and can be a great place to live. So long as you enjoy no real arts or culture. Happy to eat a diet of bread and something and enjoy poor quality beer.

      Sadly to lift about just merely average you have to have an income that’s simply not achievable for the majority. Its a low wage economy, with limited chance to be truly engaged in a productive workplace.
      Middle and upper managers who achieve their role by virtue of the old boy network and no real skills.

      I am a local, raised in Foxton and attended secondary school on the Kapiti coast and uni in Wellington. I hope a degree and professional trade qualifications, and spent over a decade working in europe to senior levels, but in the 17 years I’ve been back in NZ I’ve not been able to pierce middle strata management due mainly to the closed shop mentality of kiwi business.

      Im now simply biding my time until my mid 50’s when I get make my escape back to Europe and get my Kiwi pensions transferred – which is another whole bun fight that we have to deal with in this country!

      • Wow didn’t realise until I came across this old post how shit NZ is? After living in The U.K., the US and Aus, I like this shitty cold, boring messed up place! Lots of room for improvement sure! But I’m having the time of my life – life’s what’s you make it – regardless of where you live! People’s comments say more about themselves rather than where they live?

36. http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/local/8976100/p-lab-next-door-to-care-centre/

    It is not that other countries don’t have problems. It is that you are moving to an expensive, remote, tiny-minded place that has all the same problems your own country does, plus its very own special ones that result from its own circumstances. Migrants are jumping from frying pans into fires, thinking they can get away from the ills of the weary industrial first world by moving to the “youngest country in the world”. That’s like a 50-year-old having a midlife crisis, dumping his old wife and finding himself a 20-year-old. We all know how those end up!

    • I know this is an old post but the midlife crisis analogy is a very good one!

37. Mum” quite right! NZ is a very bad place to bring up children, the level of child poverty rates as one of the top four in the world, education standards have dropped dramatically since the 1980`s, the teachers are always on strike as they are paid peanuts, not only that most teenage kids in NZ are recruited in criminal gangs and are hooked on drugs and alcohol….ALL AND ALL A VERY VIOLENT COUNTRY!.

38. This person clearly does not have children. Only the unencumbered, uncaring or the very stupid would deliberately and knowingly move to places where their children have a much higher probability of faring poorly.

39. Lifestyle is what YOU make of it. You can have a rubbish life style anywhere on the planet, it’s up to the individual to seek adventure of the place and make the best of it. There’s always somewhere better and always somewhere worse, it’s just a matter of perspective.

    • Ania..seriously I have lived in NZ fare too long to know the living standards, to me, are not acceptable. Many towns and cities in ‘Wonderful NZ’ are terribly quiet, insanely isolating, lonely, and closed by 8.00!!! Many times I walked around screaming quietly to myself. If you are single, creative and have opions FORGET IT!!! However take a hint from NZ’s recent history – do farmers, fisherman, miners and forestry communities have open opinions, debate, political aware, dance and passionate about the arts… OK this is a little obvious to say…fare from it. But this is most of the country. Apart from repetitive poor imitation Reggie music, there is little or no music and arts culture here and forget great food. There is the Kiwi culture… one of wearing over bearing male muscle heads, wearing black to show no expression. Apart from Wellington, Kiwi’s having no opinion about just anything but the weather, sport and a V8 cruisers. They simply do not debate, I think this is considered rude to openly express your opinions…many many Kiwis simply have no opinion on politics let alone world politics, world affairs and human rights or global conflicts and little opinion about the environment even though their farmers are literally killing their own country. Socialites call NZ a ‘Passionless Society’ for many reasons. OK what next….Kiwis simply drive too much (and very aggressively too) and do not commute! Some ride their fancy carbon bikes in races and drive home fast to the barbi. Apart from Tasmania, I have never met so many over weight people, due to high drinking rates and very poor eating standards, over driving or sitting on their fat behinds watching the next episode of brain-washing American dramas. Almost everywhere outside Auckland, NZ is like small town Canada and Australia (maybe with a hint more ignorance, violence and some times open aggression). The best place was Wellington but the weather is simply terrible. I found Auckland lacking any real spark and the worst is Christchurch (OKI should of taken a hint in the name). Old monied ultra conservative or simple minded, uneducated working class communities. After 8 years of trying this creative, fun, energetic, environmentally passionate, well traveled guy has had enough. I am lucky that I don’t have a family so I can up and leave. But its damn hard to come to a country from the other side of the world and told lies about jobs a plenty and clean green brain NZ…it does not exist. I am not going to Australia as I can’t stomach the racism, I am trying my hand back in Europe, where people dance, kiss passionately, hold hands and laugh openly, and express their opinions with full vigor. I love mountains and rivers, seas and surf (which I came here for in the first place)…but the world has these a plenty…so I am off to find my shangrila….along way from NZ…I am very sad to say. To note: i have taken an effort to write this – so people out there don not make the same stupid and expensive mistake as I did and sadly waste almost a decade of their life. Try Canada..at least its closer to Europe and South America is only a day’s flight away!!! PS: If your are a KIWI or an over zealous POM I apologize. I have tried to be honest of my own experience the best I can. I will tell you my truth, NZ immigration will do the opposite!

40. NZ is a real shithole, and is becoming worse by the week with this pathetic national govt who overtaxes the poor to give to the rich!!!

    • i dissagree that newzealand is a s**T whole i beleave nz is a beautifull place full of happy people who enjoy ther lives and are happy with there country

      • …but who have poor literacy (spelling) skills… the education system in New Zealand sucks!

41. There is a lot of truth in what you say, there’s every possibility that “John” is a Pom himself.

    He should do well in NZ.

42. “John” sounds like he has adopted the classic Kiwi attitude, or in all probability brought it over on his fur. No wonder he fits in so well. The migrants who settle in well all have that attractive “harden up and fit in or f*** off” outlook.

43. John we note that you have a Christchurch IP address. You are fortunate to have a well built fairly modern and warm home, we hope you are sharing it with those who don’t have one at the moment.

44. [Troll. Deleted]

    • John/Simon (Battleneter) you have been banned for trolling on this and multiple other posts.

      Your latest comments now put you firmly in Australia, guess that living wasn’t so comfortable after all?

45. If you want to know isolation, come to NZ, get even moderately sick and be turned away from hospitals………. even when you are eligible for their so-called healthcare services.
    And when even a doctor tells you that if the hospitals refuse to see you, it’s a case that you have to “go away and die”. That IS isolation!!!!

46. People are leaving NZ because is an isolated little nation in the bottom of the world, full of racism and close-mindedness, with no economic perspectives or career prospects. It’s for similar reasons people are leaving Bangladesh, Zimbabwe, Guatemala, Samoa, and other 3rd world countries, a no brainer, really…
    Lifestyle??? LOOOOOL what a sick joke!

    • hahaha thts true….Fu** off

      • Briar, thanks for your comment and those of your equally eloquent classmates at the Bay of Islands College, which we didn’t publish. Slow day at school is it?

        • Briar got #rekt.

          I can see why people would want to leave. But, personally, I want to live here, or in a place which is similar.

        • been about 5 years since briar wrote that.

          She’s probably a single teen mum by now, with 3 kids by 4 different dads, yes 4 because she’s not sure who fathered number 2.

47. The reason I left NZ was because I found it too smaller country in my 20s. Not boring – but just too small for someone with big city dreams! A lot of NZders choose to travel at this age and therefore it may appear everyone is leaving! You will notice many of them return and choose to live here because of the good lifestyle and a great place to have a family. A similar scenario applies in Australia.

    After reading the comments this thread I can only assume the people are expecting to find a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow… funny because I don’t think NZ has ever claimed to be an economic power house!

    However, having lived in both the UK and NZ, I can say that tax is LESS in NZ (income tax AND goods/VAT). Since the recession, wages for a mid range job are no different in either country, but high paying jobs like IT and engineering are better in the UK. The best part for me is that house prices and rent are about half… this means I have more money after paying for my basic living costs. Food & entertainment costs me no more or no less in either country. Although it is easier to find a fresh Japanese/Thai restaurant in NZ!

    One of the worst things in NZ in my opinion is the public transport. They are working to improve it, but its hard to compare it with a fantastic rail service in a big city like Sydney or London. For this reason, many people choose to drive, which doesn’t help the issue. In saying this – commuting to work is still faster.

    The best thing in NZ is the easy access to beaches and outdoor living. I think this helps to entice a more relaxed pace of life with a focus on life outside of work.

    Moving to NZ is a lifestyle change. Not a career move… unfortunately these things don’t often go hand in hand.

    Economists ‘liveability rankings’ list puts Auckland at no. 10 and heavily features Australia and Canada.
    http://www.economist.com/blogs/gulliver/2010/02/liveability_rankings

    • Sarah do you have any figures for the number of New Zealanders who do return home to live? A great many of them seem to settle permanently in Australia.

      Interestingly many Kiwis find it hard to settle back in to New Zealand life after spending time away and have difficulties being accepted as a local, they also find resettlement hard because New Zealand isn’t as it was when they left it. Read some of our what Kiwis say about NZ pages. One of them is called Returning Kiwis views about New Zealand.

      Here are some comments from it:

      kk (Canada)
      Wednesday September 23, 2009 “We are currently living in Canada and have also lived in the US. Coming back to NZ is a bittersweet decision for us, the main drawcard is family, the beautiful countryside, and our children growing up literate.
      But for a small country, NZ has developed a shocking culture of violence, I have felt safer in these countries at night than in NZ, granted we have lived in great towns but there wouldn’t be many places in NZ I would walk at night.
      We’ve been reading the news regularly to ease back being home and Im ashamed to read headlines like the ‘h’ in Wanganui rubbish next to one about yet another abused/killed child.
      When people ask me about the utopia they believe is NZ , I say sure its a stunningly beautiful country with clean air, but never hitchhike, be careful where you camp for the night, walk down to the dairy at night, stare at anybody, walk home from the pub, sleep on a beach or leave anything not bolted down outside and you’ll be fine.”

      Andrew kiwi in the (United States of America)
      Wednesday September 23, 2009 “There are a few things that make me worry about coming back, one is the actions of the dictatorial enviromentalist movements. Another is the government seeming desire to control people. Banning certain styles of parenting? That is concerning. What else will you be unable to do because some bleeding heart socialist do-gooder decides it is in your best interests to deny you the right to decide that? There are schools of thought that population control is required to save the planet. Will we have to apply to have children at all? These new enviro-nazis seem determined to destroy the economy to solve a problem that hasn’t even been proven to exist!”

      YouKNOWItsTheTruth (Mairangi Bay)
      Wednesday September 23, 2009 “I keep reading about this mythical NZ lifestyle. A few people here have listed mountains as a reason to come back. A big hill is a reason to live in a country?
      Seriously, how many people in NZ actually go mountain climbing? Just as only 134,000 watched the Boks beat the All Blacks in SA last month, there seems to be this fantasy that all Kiwis love rugby, ski, surg, mountainbike, fish, have a bach and watch rugby.
      If you do, good on you, you’ll love NZ. Most of us don’t though. And the weather is rubbish. Makes me laugh when Kiwis slag the UK weather. AKL has more annual rainfall and worse air quality than London. And although the UK can be colder (than AKL, not necessarily the South Island) houses are built to cope with it, unlike here, hence all the asthma. And don’t get me started on leaky homes.”

      Good luck for when, and if, you ever decide to return. The chances are that you won’t do it until you retire.

      The family unit is disappearing in New Zealand. Statistics NZ’s latest family and household projections show that couples without children at home overtook couples with children at home in 2008 for the first time since at least World War II. Which rather belies the myth that Kiwis return home to have kids.

      • totally agreed ! me and my partner returned 3 years ago … our life turn into a big mess.

48. Good luck James, it can only get better from now on!

49. I’m leaving for Oz when my wife graduates.

    Just by moving to Oz, my salary jumps from 90k to 120-130k.

    Tax is lower. More opportunities for my wife.

    And Jesus Christ, the housing here is crap.

    I’m originally from South Africa, and goddamn, NZ builders aren’t even up to SA standards. I’m glad I didn’t put any money down to buy a leaky, ugly piece of shit house for $600,000+!

    Sure, it may be as expensive or more in Oz, but from what I’ve seen the quality is way way better.

    Thanks for the developed-country passport tho! Makes it easier to move on up to the next rung 🙂

    • 90k is a pretty good salary! Think you’ll have found that tax in Australia is not lower – NZ’s top tax rate is 39c I think, Aust. is 50c in the dollar. Cost of living is definitely lower.

      Not sure if SA’s fit into NZ very well, you’re probably better off in Australia.

      • Sure they do- they have similar lifestyles and behaviour… fake and mannerly, highly promiscuous, self-driven, image-driven, materialistic, non empathetic, extremely dysfunctional and sexists – could not be a better match to be frank. Most S Africans work side-by-side with Kiwis and even one S African lady promoted pimping here at University of Otago and now is senior lecturer they… they love S Africans in NZ esp, S Island Wellington and Auckland! S Africans are the only ones I know besides English who get the high salary jobs next to Kiwis.

    • you are so spot on mate. I left the shitty life in NZ in 1995 and it is the best thing I ever did. I can not believe the stupidity of those left behind who, after 20 years of dismal lives, and paying rent to greedy landlords, still think they are living in a developed country, when all the statistics clearly show that they are not. It is their no longer something they should be scratching their heads over. Kiwis have allowed themselves to be ripped off by minority interests for 25 years and have mostly not so much as made a peep about because they have no moral compass and therefore no idea what is important beyond superficial selfish material concerns. NZ has always been an oppressive place and the ignorance that pervades at the highest levels is surpassed only by the nastiness. Leaving really is the only option and that was clear to me 20 years ago.
      By the way this, is the longest comment I have made on the internet in more than 2 years. Normally I am way to busy and sober for such trivia.

    • I’ve seen the building standards in ZA and while they may once have been good they are now most assuredly inferior to even NZ standards. The almost complete lack of competent oversight and inspection is reflected in how shoddy things are there in South Africa.

      NZ builds in timber because of the seismic nature of the country and Christchurch proves masonry is not a good idea in an earthquake zone. Also see Anchorage, Alaska – there’s a reason for timber.
      I spent 35 years in carpentry, design and build and will say the new chums coming through are formulaic and know nothing of proper jointing, weathering and flashing methods because the industry has been dumbed-down to over-compensate for poor training .
      Judging NZ standards by anything built post 1980’s by speculator/builders is going to skew the results. Anyone who owned a hammer was in on the new gold rush and companies like James Hardie promoted products which were totally unsuitable for the NZ climate.
      An Arts & Crafts house in Remuera is likely to be entirely better than a group house on the North Shore anywhere and my impression of South African tradespeople is less than favourable too.
      They leave everything to their untrained underlings and disappear.

    • so your handing in your nz passports at the border or are you a hypcrite

      • G Blackburn, Yes he must be a “hypcrite”.
        BTW, did you ever see red underline in your browser when you make spelling mistakes?? James seems to have paid for the “service” to get “done” in nz and probably more happy in the Oz.

    • we have been thinking of moving to NZ for years, and each time the housing and the shit holes I see on the internet is what puts me off. I think it is cheaper and better to live in NZ if you are prepared to slum it or camp for the rest of your life ….

    • I have to differ with you there. The South African buildings I observed were ,with a few notable exceptions, of very poor quality and had things like stairwells with guaranteed head-knocks and woefully bad plumbing. Mostly caused by a fat builder dropping off his coloureds and leaving them to it and going home to eat yet more braii.
      The lack of proper supervision and the generally low level of training did not help.
      There were also very fine houses there but generally these were products of an earlier time.
      But yes, building standards in NZ dropped when every developer and wannabe that owned a hammer in the 1980’s got in to make a quick killing. The standard prior to this was equal to anything anywhere else with good trade practices.
      Also, a point many immigrants don’t get is why NZ houses are built in timber. NZ is a seismically active country and masonry is extremely hazardous in such an environment.

      A well-constructed house in NZ would allow for extreme winds, seismic activity and four seasons in one day , not unlike the Pacific North-West of the US and the houses are entirely similar. Timber-frame houses survived the Anchorage force-9 quake intact when all other systems failed catastrophically.

      But the dumbing-down of the construction industry in NZ has led to the proliferation of instant tech-school experts and educated idiots promulgating very poor but expensive trade practices which are now mandatory in order to redeem the ‘leaky building ‘ legacy.
      Craftsmanship is neither lucrative or allowed in NZ now. Witness the ridiculous wages and hostility to tradespeople from anywhere but locally, offered in the wake of the Christchurch earthquake. Finally they had to resort to importing low-wage labour , subsidised in a way that no one from NZ could compete with.
      One of the main reasons I left!

      I do not miss anything in NZ except maybe the hunting.

50. Its quite brutal, but I cannot disagree.

    I have made myself feel a bit better about NZ (which I mostly love!) by thinking that it really is NOT a first world nation.

    NZ has a great summer, but once winter arrives, we all sit around with our gloves and jumpers on in cold, leaky, expensive, damp homes… this is not a 1st world nation.

    Yes, Kiwis drink Flat Whites and bask in the glory of trendy bars and restaurants but when it comes to the basics? Roads, infrastructure, public transport, shelter? NZ is very much behind, UK, Ireland, Canada, USA, Norway, Australia, the list goes on and on…

    I do want to say however that I DO love it here, but I am sad that NZ simply does not live up to its amazing potential. Canada here I come…

    http://www.muzzerino.com/2010/03/breaking-news-new-zealand-indoor-winter.html

    • The problem is the NZ summer isn’t long enough and a winter spent in a damp, cold house can be miserable. Other countries also do flat whites and trendy bars, scenery, roads and all the associated infrastructure and advances of a progressive 21st Century. Living on a film set’s back lot has its drawbacks.

      Good luck with Canada, the weather may be colder but at least the homes are built for it 🙂

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